Yes Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool are done. MOD POST #425 *ALL READ*

Sgt Pepper 64

zerks wrote: »

No winding up or trolling intended,it's just that I was watching the show & Liverpool were challenging for the title and everything seemed rosy.3 years ago was just an anomoly,I think even the most die hard fan will admit that it was a false dawn.A league title challenge is even further away than ever now.

All it takes is cash! Look at City and Chelsea
Huge injection of money and suddenly........

Although judging by the reaction to the 2 teams in question, it seems most pool fans would turn it down

Sappy404

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

All it takes is cash! Look at City and Chelsea
Huge injection of money and suddenly........

Although judging by the reaction to the 2 teams in question, it seems most pool fans would turn it down

If there's a huge injection of cash it should go towards a new stadium or redeveloping Anfield and the immediate surrounding area, but there's too much red tape holding things up for the latter option it would seem.

Sgt Pepper 64

Sappy404 wrote: »

If there's a huge injection of cash it should go towards a new stadium or redeveloping Anfield and the immediate surrounding area, but there's too much red tape holding things up for the latter option it would seem.

Depending on how rich your benefactor is - you get both!
And new youth\training facilities

Its win win!

firemansam4

Father Damo wrote: »

What I still cant fathom about the "he needs time" brigade is that Hodgson, who remains one of the best managers in the league, was a target for the boo boys from about a month into the job. How in the name of god did he not deserve time, yet Dalglish does? Anyone with half a brain surely could see from the second he got the job that this would not work out (I had no doubt he would fail to succeed, although I had truly no idea of how Steve Staunton like the whole thing would become). Maybe it was from being an Ireland fan that I had more of an idea of how and why this was to be bad, as we know all too well the folly of appointing poorly qualified people based on sentimentality and old boys clubness.

Come on not this chest nut again!! why did we sack Woy and not want to sack Kenny!!

Well did Woy win us our first trophy in 6 years? did he get us to the semi's of an FA cup? did he show any signs at all of improving Liverpool and getting them to play well?

Yes in Kenny's time there have been some very high price signings for mediocre players (which were more than likely more down to Camoli)
And he has had a disastrous run of about 7 league games, but up until then we weren't doing too bad.
At least under Kenny we have shown signs of some decent football and that has been shown in our cup runs, under Woy there was just no signs of anything happening except us going backwards

Will I Amnt

firemansam4 wrote: »

Well did Woy win us our first trophy in 6 years?

Not the best angle to approach that argument at seeing as he was sacked in January,before all cup finals.

I'm not saying he should have been kept on before ye get the pitchforks out.

LuckyLloyd

cambo2008 wrote: »

Not the best angle to approach that argument at seeing as he was sacked in January,before all cup finals.

I'm not saying he should have been kept on before ye get the pitchforks out.

Well, the mighty Northampton had already scuppered his interest in one of them anyway...

SlickRic

zerks wrote: »

3 years ago was just an anomoly,I think even the most die hard fan will admit that it was a false dawn.A league title challenge is even further away than ever now.

some fans will believe anything, without proper objective research, to fuel their hatred.

it was only a "false dawn" because of a lack of investment, H***s and G*****t asset stripping the club, and Rafa not adapting very well to the lack of investment; investment he had been promised, and then being run out of the club in the changeover.

that really is it in a nutshell.

and i too found your need to go back to Roy Evans to make your point rather amusing.

Sgt Pepper 64

firemansam4 wrote: »

Come on not this chest nut again!! why did we sack Woy and not want to sack Kenny!!

Well did Woy win us our first trophy in 6 years? did he get us to the semi's of an FA cup? did he show any signs at all of improving Liverpool and getting them to play well?

Yes in Kenny's time there have been some very high price signings for mediocre players (which were more than likely more down to Camoli)
And he has had a disastrous run of about 7 league games, but up until then we weren't doing too bad.
At least under Kenny we have shown signs of some decent football and that has been shown in our cup runs, under Woy there was just no signs of anything happening except us going backwards

Roy got you far in europe though didnt he? Then Kenny got you knocked out

This is funny\ironic though:
Youve got europa league at least, but a poor "finish" to the season is costing you

Kenny Dalglish blames Liverpool's failure to qualify for Europa League on poor start to season



Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish believes the club were lucky to finish sixth in the Premier League table after their abysmal start to the campaign.

Aston Villa's 1-0 victory on Sunday helped condemn the Anfield outfit to their first season without European football since the 1999/2000 season. The damage was largely done under previous boss Roy Hodgson after he gained just 25 points in 21 games until Dalglish took over the reins in mid-January.
Speaking to reporters after the match, the Scot bemoaned the poor state of the club when he took over and admitted that a season without European football would take some getting used to.
"It's always nice for everybody to be involved in Europe, isn't it? Whether it is going to be helpful or not to be out of it remains to be seen," Dalglish stated.
"It is a long time since this club wasn't involved in Europe. "It is new ground for everybody. We just need to get on with it and accept that we aren't.
"We didn't qualify for Europe because we lost the game today it was because we had a bad start to the season.
"If you start as badly as that then you're lucky to be sixth come the end of it."
Liverpool's disappointing season ensured that no Champions League or Europa League football will be on offer to prospective signings this summer. Despite the setback, Dalglish was convinced the club remained a big enough draw and was confident if any player didn't want to come it'd be "their loss not ours."
"There are a lot more players who don't play in the Champions League than do and I think Liverpool football club is a big enough attraction to players," he added.
"If we want to bring someone in, I'm sure the club is a big enough attraction. Anyone we do bring in will have to be a lot better than what we have here and that is only the chosen few.
"We'll be select with what we choose to do, and if they don't want to come, it's their loss not ours."

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2011/05/22/2498208/kenny-dalglish-blames-liverpools-failure-to-qualify-for

Nalz

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well, the mighty Northampton had already scuppered his interest in one of them anyway...

Didnt he put out a weak team in that carling cup game? Alex Ferguson the greatest manager of our time has been knocked out on several occasions in that competition by playing weakened teams.

Will I Amnt

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

Not the best angle to approach that argument at seeing as he was sacked in January,before all cup finals.

I'm not saying he should have been kept on before ye get the pitchforks out.

Well, the mighty Northampton had already scuppered his interest in one of them anyway...

True but he was still in the one that Kenny picked up.....
Obviously would have gone out the next round though

LuckyLloyd

Trilla wrote: »

Didnt he put out a weak team in that carling cup game? Alex Ferguson the greatest manager of our time has been knocked out on several occasions in that competition by playing weakened teams.

Has Ferguson ever lost a cup game at home to a League Two (or fourth division) opponent?

Seriously - the Northampton defeat is one of the worst defeats in the club's history. I'm really not exagerrating here.

Sappy404

Trilla wrote: »

Didnt he put out a weak team in that carling cup game? Alex Ferguson the greatest manager of our time has been knocked out on several occasions in that competition by playing weakened teams.

Would being knocked out of a tournament by League 2 opposition at Old Trafford be deemed acceptable?

Will I Amnt

Exeter and Burton Albion came within a whisker of knocking us out of the cup in recent years.

LuckyLloyd

cambo2008 wrote: »

Exeter and Burton Albion came within a whisker of knocking us out of the cup in recent years.

But they didn't. Nor did they take you to extra time.

Will I Amnt

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

Exeter and Burton Albion came within a whisker of knocking us out of the cup in recent years.

But they didn't. Nor did they take you to extra time.

Both took us to a replay.My point is its not beyond the realms of possibility to go out to these teams when you play an under-strength side.

Cantona's Collars

Leiva wrote: »

If your not you should be embarrassed .

Cause your last two posts are nothing but cringe worthy.

For a club & fans who claim history is the most important thing in the world you seem reluctant to acknowledge parts of your history,I have many Liverpool supporting friends & can remember them gloating back then that they were going to win the league.3 years ago they were saying "Liverpool will fuck this up".

Nice how ye reverted to history to lift the club by bringing back "The King", that's worked out well,nearer to the relegation zone than the top of the league.
Obviously ye judge progress differently than everyone else.

firemansam4

Well as far as I can see Kenny made a massive turn around in form for Liverpool when he took over last year and has now won Liverpool there first silver ware in 6 years as well as getting us close to our 2nd!

Now like i said before he has had a disastrous run in the league of late, but that is not enough to give him the sack now, the least he deserves is the chance to get back on track in the new season, every manager goes through a bad blip and its not like its been a disaster for Kenny ever since he took over.

If it had been any other manager who had taken over I would still say the same thing. And if next season turns out to be a disaster under Kenny and we don't seem to be progressing then maybe then questions might have to be asked.

Wolf Club

zerks wrote: »

No winding up or trolling intended,it's just that I was watching the show & Liverpool were challenging for the title and everything seemed rosy.3 years ago was just an anomoly,I think even the most die hard fan will admit that it was a false dawn.A league title challenge is even further away than ever now.

To be fair, had Liverpool not sold Alonso and Mascherano, there's every chance they could've been challenging for the title after that.

K-9

zerks wrote: »

For a club & fans who claim history is the most important thing in the world you seem reluctant to acknowledge parts of your history,I have many Liverpool supporting friends & can remember them gloating back then that they were going to win the league.3 years ago they were saying "Liverpool will fuck this up".

They thought the Spice Boys would win the league?

Wisened up then.

Cantona's Collars

K-9 wrote: »

They thought the Spice Boys would win the league?

Wisened up then.

I refused up to now to use the words Liverpool & deluded in the same sentence but you all but did it for me.

K-9

zerks wrote: »

I refused up to now to use the words Liverpool & deluded in the same sentence but you all but did it for me.

As Ted would say, "these (08/09) are up close, those (96/97) are far, far away".

SlickRic

zerks wrote: »

For a club & fans who claim history is the most important thing in the world you seem reluctant to acknowledge parts of your history, I have many Liverpool supporting friends & can remember them gloating back then that they were going to win the league.3 years ago they were saying "Liverpool will fuck this up".

Nice how ye reverted to history to lift the club by bringing back "The King", that's worked out well, nearer to the relegation zone than the top of the league.
Obviously ye judge progress differently than everyone else.

1. just because your mates thought we would fúck up, doesn't mean we weren't challenging. many of City's fans thought they'd fúck up this year. does that mean they're not challenging. also we didn't fúck, Utd were just awesome in that run-in, and we couldn't quite keep pace.

2. we judge progress the same as everyone else...a combination of league position and trophies. some will put more emphasis on trophies, some the league, and some a happy medium. same as your club; but you see, all you've known for 20 years is success after success after success. it's what always baffles me about many Utd fans in particular. the majority have absolutely no clue what it's like to be a genuine club in transition, trying to get the fit right. no clue. none. and yet we get lectured. now don't get me wrong, many make decent points at times. but it irks me a bit when i get lectured about a Utd fan about what we should do with a struggling manager. the majority don't have a clue how it feels.

we'll take positives from this season, whether you agree with it or not. the Carling Cup win was important. the FA Cup is still possible, and would be a great achievement. now i personally believe the league form has been absolutely abysmal, and FSG will have to take a hard look at whether Kenny is the right man. some would deem it progress, especially if we won both cups. meh. i'd not necessarily agree, but who am i to shít on a fellow supporter.

and also, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, the vast majority of Liverpool fans are fully aware of where the club stands. we are not a force at the top tier of the League. we're not fúcking morons. but we aren't perennial midtable mediocrity either yet.

decisions in the summer, both in the management end of things and the transfer dealings, could well dictate where we are in the next few years.

_blank_

SlickRic wrote: »

the majority have absolutely no clue what it's like to be a genuine club in transition, trying to get the fit right. no clue. none.

Longest "transition" in history tbh.

SlickRic

zerks wrote: »

I refused up to now to use the words Liverpool & deluded in the same sentence but you all but did it for me.

whose deluded?

seriously?

back up shít like that rather than just making a clichéd, blasé statement that haters of the club have tried to turn into a tagline in recent weeks and months.

it's pathetic, and really fúcking boring too.

Crash Bang Wall

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Has Ferguson ever lost a cup game at home to a League Two (or fourth division) opponent?

Seriously - the Northampton defeat is one of the worst defeats in the club's history. I'm really not exagerrating here.

Did York City not knock them out of the League Cup in the last 10 years? Not sure what Division, but L1 OR L2 I would imagine

ShamoBuc

Des wrote: »

Longest "transition" in history tbh.

I'm sure fans of alot of clubs would disagree with you.

SlickRic

Des wrote: »

Longest "transition" in history tbh.

the club was in a fúcking jock behind the scenes for 2 years, so yes the last 2 years have been damn long.

lots of terrible decisions have delayed getting things moving forward again.

Will I Amnt

SlickRic wrote: »

it's what always baffles me about many Utd fans in particular. the majority have absolutely no clue what it's like to be a genuine club in transition, trying to get the fit right. no clue. none. and yet we get lectured.

I have forgotten what it's like to be honest but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion based on what happens at the majority of other big clubs.

It's different today in that you can't afford to be out of the champions league for too long.The teams that take your place in the top 4 get money and strengthen with better quality players,in the meantime you lose out on that money and find it tough to attract the same calibre of player.It's a double edged sword.

I personally think that the signings were poor and he's not even getting the best out of what he has anyway.
I'm not sure theres any clubs with the same standing in the game as Liverpool that would give him another season after the signings he's made and how they have performed.

Sappy404

Des wrote: »

Longest "transition" in history tbh.

Really? How long did it take Ferguson to win a league at United for example?

Cantona's Collars

SlickRic wrote: »

the club was in a fúcking jock behind the scenes for 2 years, so yes the last 2 years have been damn long.

lots of terrible decisions have delayed getting things moving forward again.

Things are moving forward nicely aren't they.If not for the terrible decision of using goals posts & crossbars Liverpool would have won a lot more games:rolleyes:

What will happen in say 2 years if ye have a new manager and are still fighting for 7th place in the league? It could happen as FSG have stated publically that funds for transfers will be limited this Summer so if I was a 'pool fan I wouldn't be too optimistic for the forthcoming season.

SlickRic

cambo2008 wrote: »

I personally think that the signings were poor and he's not even getting the best out of what he has anyway.
I'm not sure theres any clubs with the same standing in the game as Liverpool that would give him another season after the signings he's made and how they have performed.

and this is where I'm largely at with him to be fair.

Leiva

zerks wrote: »

Things are moving forward nicely aren't they.If not for the terrible decision of using goals posts & crossbars Liverpool would have won a lot more games:rolleyes:

What will happen in say 2 years if ye have a new manager and are still fighting for 7th place in the league? It could happen as FSG have stated publically that funds for transfers will be limited this Summer so if I was a 'pool fan I wouldn't be too optimistic for the forthcoming season.

Can you please link me to this - thanks .

SlickRic

zerks wrote: »

Things are moving forward nicely aren't they.If not for the terrible decision of using goals posts & crossbars Liverpool would have won a lot more games:rolleyes:

no need for the rolleyes in order to make your point.

did i say we're moving forward? did i say we're going nicely? did i even say I'm happy with Kenny?

i addressed the fact that you're calling us deluded, and the fact you seem to be of the opinion that we were last "challenging" 16 years ago, and surprise surprise, you tangent off on some cliché point you obviously believe all of us Liverpool supporters use as an excuse, when in reality, most have us have faced up to the fact we haven't been good enough.

What will happen in say 2 years if ye have a new manager and are still fighting for 7th place in the league? It could happen as FSG have stated publically that funds for transfers will be limited this Summer so if I was a 'pool fan I wouldn't be too optimistic for the forthcoming season.

i've no idea what will happen.

if this period of "transition", which as pointed out has been far too long, keeps going, it may be a long while before we're at the top end properly again. it's why i said this summer is vital in terms of getting decisions right - i.e. the management, as well as the transfers.

there's no point in looking 2 years down the road and figuring out what i'd do. so much can happen in that space of time.

willmunny1990

can somebody answer me this...

Are the Pool owners currently seeing a return on their investment? Are they making money from the club (which is why they bought the club in the first place?) ?

If so, they could well be happy with 7th place finishes and a cup win here and there (despite what they say publicly)

because, if they pump in more money in an attempt to get pool into the CL places, would the risk be worth the sort of investment needed? they could pump £100m and Pool may still not get close enough to the CL places, thats very possible especially with the current competition of manc clubs, chelsea, spurs and arsenal.

and even if they got into the cl places for one season, theres no guarantee that they'd stay there considering that competition around. so would it be worth the gamble from their point of view?

Why would they bother taking that huge risk if they're making a decent amount of money the way things stand?

ShamoBuc

zerks wrote: »

if I was a 'pool fan I wouldn't be too optimistic for the forthcoming season.

But you're not, so don't worry about it.

We are an optimistic bunch.

Afterall, next year.....

Cantona's Collars

Leiva wrote: »

Can you please link me to this - thanks .

You're the Liverpool fan,I'd have thought you'd have known this already.

ShamoBuc

zerks wrote: »

You're the Liverpool fan,I'd have thought you'd have known this already.

I presume that's a no then.

Leiva

zerks wrote: »

You're the Liverpool fan,I'd have thought you'd have known this already.

Do you have a link or not ?

Or are you just stating that the transfer kitty will be limited like every other club ?

Cantona's Collars

ShamoBuc wrote: »

But you're not, so don't worry about it.

We are an odd bunch.

Afterall, next year.....

FYP.

Liked the "next year" bit though.I expect to see it used again......next year:pac:

ShamoBuc

zerks wrote: »

FYP.

Liked the "next year" bit though.I expect to see it used again......next year:pac:

Every year, without fail.

Sometimes, it will be correct;)

Cantona's Collars

Leiva wrote: »

Do you have a link or not ?

Or are you just stating that the transfer kitty will be limited like every other club ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9161533/Liverpool-count-the-cost-of-failing-to-make-Premier-League-top-four-and-missing-Champions-League-bonanza.html

With the money Dalglish has wasted,I wouldn't trust him with buying groceries let alone handling another transfer fund.

Flancrest

zerks wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9161533/Liverpool-count-the-cost-of-failing-to-make-Premier-League-top-four-and-missing-Champions-League-bonanza.html

With the money Dalglish has wasted,I wouldn't trust him with buying groceries let alone handling another transfer fund.

Based on what? Kenny hasn't really made any bad transfers IMO.

Leiva

willmunny1990 wrote: »

can somebody answer me this...

Are the Pool owners currently seeing a return on their investment? Are they making money from the club (which is why they bought the club in the first place?) ?

If so, they could well be happy with 7th place finishes and a cup win here and there (despite what they say publicly)

because, if they pump in more money in an attempt to get pool into the CL places, would the risk be worth the sort of investment needed? they could pump £100m and Pool may still not get close enough to the CL places, thats very possible especially with the current competition of manc clubs, chelsea, spurs and arsenal.

and even if they got into the cl places for one season, theres no guarantee that they'd stay there considering that competition around. so would it be worth the gamble from their point of view?

Why would they bother taking that huge risk if they're making a decent amount of money the way things stand?

It's hard to say but in the past 18months the new owners and Ian Ayre have secured commercial investments over the next 5 years of over £360million.

So the funds are there .

Liverpool in comparison to other clubs have some very good untapped revenue streams .
A new stadium or revamped Anfield is top of that list and should bring us in line with the match day incomes of UTD , Arsenal etc who today clear over £2million more per game than Liverpool.

The current owners track record points to a dynamic company that likes to be top of their game , and asset stripping has never shown up in any of their previous investments / ventures.

Only time will tell but I feel we have winners at the helm .

murpho999

Unbelievable posters in here.

Sort of reminds of how a Garda once told me that they like it if a town has one rough pub so they know where all the trouble is and leaves the rest of the good folk to enjoy the rest of the nice places where they'd all be barred from!

K-9

Des wrote: »

Longest "transition" in history tbh.

Your clubs transition was longer in the 70's and 80's.

Melion

Flancrest wrote: »

Based on what? Kenny hasn't really made any bad transfers IMO.

Im sorry but double you tee eff?

sReq | uTeK

Melion wrote: »

Im sorry but double you tee eff?

hes trolling

Leiva

zerks wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9161533/Liverpool-count-the-cost-of-failing-to-make-Premier-League-top-four-and-missing-Champions-League-bonanza.html

With the money Dalglish has wasted,I wouldn't trust him with buying groceries let alone handling another transfer fund.

Thanks for that link which is primarily a journalist talking about the problems Liverpool will have attracting players due to failure of securing CL football.

Again can you please link me to this;

zerks:

as FSG have stated publically that funds for transfers will be limited this Summer

I won't ask again if you can't no problem .

Flancrest

Melion wrote: »

Im sorry but double you tee eff?

What bad signings has he made? Everyone he's bought has made a solid contribution to the team at some stage of the season

K-9

willmunny1990 wrote: »

can somebody answer me this...

Are the Pool owners currently seeing a return on their investment? Are they making money from the club (which is why they bought the club in the first place?) ?

If so, they could well be happy with 7th place finishes and a cup win here and there (despite what they say publicly)

because, if they pump in more money in an attempt to get pool into the CL places, would the risk be worth the sort of investment needed? they could pump £100m and Pool may still not get close enough to the CL places, thats very possible especially with the current competition of manc clubs, chelsea, spurs and arsenal.

and even if they got into the cl places for one season, theres no guarantee that they'd stay there considering that competition around. so would it be worth the gamble from their point of view?

Why would they bother taking that huge risk if they're making a decent amount of money the way things stand?

Leiva posted a lot of the stuff I would have said.

Tbh, until the accounts are out we wont know the exact picture but I think £30/40 Million IIRC was going on bank debt and more on financial costs.

There was a huge job in cutting of deadwood from the end of the Rafa era and basically all Hodgsons signings, bar Meireles. Club had to pay a fair few million just to end contracts early, Dossena and Poulsen I think and probably a couple of others, Jovanovic maybe. Him and Cole were on over 200k a week with the "free" transfer deals. The club is still paying most of Aquilani and Coles's wages!

Can't remember the figures but there was easily 500k a week wages that were an absolute waste. Henry pointed at it after he took, didn't realise how bad it was.

The club should be able to afford another couple of additions with Cole and Aquillani gone, looking at 200k a week there. The worry obviously is that some of the signings will be deadwood next year and rinse and repeat.

I said it on the superthread, considering the money spent, we still have to strengthen in CM, RW and a goal scoring striker with most of the signings from the Summer being squad players, even LW isn't ideal. It puts big pressure on Comolli and Kenny to buy quality this Summer.

As for finances, they are getting more money out of the club and obviously CL is the target as its the shortest way of getting more money from the actual on the pitch side! We are lucky in that we still are a "big" club sponsorship wise so losing out on the CL hasn't been that big a financial breaker, but obviously that can't go on forever!