Yes Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool are done. MOD POST #425 *ALL READ*

ootbitb

big Pat manager at Liverpool...biggest lol ever

SlickRic

alproctor wrote: »

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree so -

I think it's fair to say Liverpool are going backwards, considering they've gone from 2nd in the league to mid table mediocrity in 3 years, and competing in Champions League finals to accepting League Cup wins as a successful season in 5 years.

so they have gone backwards, and have now stayed still and/or made baby steps forward.

of course if you compare us to Rafa's era, we'll have gone backwards since then.

LuckyLloyd

alproctor wrote: »

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree so -

I think it's fair to say Liverpool are going backwards, considering they've gone from 2nd in the league to mid table mediocrity in 3 years, and competing in Champions League finals to accepting League Cup wins as a successful season in 5 years.

Yes, in the 18 months from May 2009 to November 2011 we went backwards, no question. Since November 2011 we are in the same place though imo. We certainly haven't got any worse since that point.

StephenHendry

what are the chances of rafa being the manager again in the summer? if things don't end well the henry and kenny to sit down during the summer with kenny agreeing to move upstairs.

Jesus Wept

Redzer7 wrote: »

A lot of talk linking Pat Dolan as the next Liverpool manager.

imo

Jayob10

Andy Carroll wrote: »

imo

he is even making the "5 times" salute there

monkey9

Redzer7 wrote: »

A lot of talk linking Pat Dolan as the next Liverpool manager.

Have you been hanging out with the junkies and drunkards on Marlborough St or something??

Redzer7

Sit back and watch it unfold lads!

MonkeyTennis

Doris in the canteen is s**tting herself

monkey9

This is the second thread yet on the same subject!! Following the third thread on the Liverpool season thread in general!! Interesting!!!

You have to almost respect the Obsessives!!!!

Will I Amnt

monkey9 wrote: »

But you're stopping another myth before it starts!!!!!! How are the Liverpool obsessed fans of other clubs meant to debate amongst themselves stuff that never happened if you're going to go ahead and produce evidence that they are talking bullsh!t

monkey9 wrote: »

If the Liverpool obsessed fans of other clubs want so much to hear what Kenny has to say about the officals, send him a tweet.

monkey9 wrote: »

This is the second thread yet on the same subject!! Following the third thread on the Liverpool season thread in general!! Interesting!!!

You have to almost respect the Obsessives!!!!

monkey9 wrote: »

The amount of shite posted in this and other threads by Liverpool obsessed fans of other clubs is something to behold.

Who's obsessed with what now????

RasTa

That photo has some serious history on this forum. I wonder if the posters are still around

Morricone

What's the story with the photo and the forum?

Samich

That is an amazing pic

monkey9

cambo2008 wrote: »

Who's obsessed with what now????

I am and i'm obsessed with Liverpool FC and all things concerning it!

plasmaguy

Again the choice facing Liverpool, is stick with the current manager and current players, or embark on a massive rebuilding which involves getting rid of the manager, selling a lot of players and hoping to get some return on them and then spend another 100 million bringing in world class players.

On paper some of Dalglish's signings looked sound. Suarez, Enrique, Adam etc.

Most world class players these days cost 40-50 million.

For that money you probably get a few players like Villa from Barca, and maybe Soldado from valencia.

A Villa or Soldado strikeforce alongside Suarez would be damn good.

I don't think Liverpool could give away Andy Carrol at this stage for nothing.

mufcboy1999

Let's be realistic here lads , you havnt a hope in signing villa or soldado. No world class player is going to sign with Ye unless he comes from a relatively small club seeking to use ye as a stepping stone.

Most importantly do you think any world class players would sign for Ye if your not in europe?

Saurez clearly isn't world class, terrible finisher and he's a striker who are clearly judged by the goals they score. Carroll in all honestly has to be the biggest flop in the history of the premiership.

First it was the owners then rafa, hodgeson and now daglish??? Get real lads Ye are just a cat team and have been for 20 years.

Will I Amnt

^^^^^^^

niallo27

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Let's be realistic here lads , you havnt a hope in signing villa or soldado. No world class player is going to sign with Ye unless he comes from a relatively small club seeking to use ye as a stepping stone.

Most importantly do you think any world class players would sign for Ye if your not in europe?

Saurez clearly isn't world class, terrible finisher and he's a striker who are clearly judged by the goals they score. Carroll in all honestly has to be the biggest flop in the history of the premiership.

First it was the owners then rafa, hodgeson and now daglish??? Get real lads Ye are just a cat team and have been for 20 years.

How many times can you say Ye in a post.

LuckyLloyd

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Get real lads Ye are just a cat team and have been for 20 years.

1992 FA Cup
1995 League Cup
2001 UEFA Cup, FA Cup, League Cup
2003 League Cup
2005 Champions League
2006 FA Cup
2012 League Cup

1992 6th
1993 6th
1994 8th
1995 3rd
1996 3rd
1997 4th
1998 3rd
1999 7th
2000 4th
2001 3rd
2002 2nd
2003 5th
2004 4th
2005 5th
2006 3rd
2007 3rd
2008 4th
2009 2nd
2010 7th
2011 6th

Looks competitive to me. "Cat" doesn't mean what you think it means.

This thread is very AIDSy.

missingtime

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Let's be realistic here lads , you havnt a hope in signing villa or soldado. No world class player is going to sign with Ye unless he comes from a relatively small club seeking to use ye as a stepping stone.

Most importantly do you think any world class players would sign for Ye if your not in europe?

Saurez clearly isn't world class, terrible finisher and he's a striker who are clearly judged by the goals they score. Carroll in all honestly has to be the biggest flop in the history of the premiership.

First it was the owners then rafa, hodgeson and now daglish??? Get real lads Ye are just a cat team and have been for 20 years.

And proud of it.

kryogen

It sort of puzzles me why the obvious WUM's are responded to so much here!

It is amusing enough nonetheless though

Oranage2

Of course Dalglish is done.

John Henry wants to adapt a 'Moneyball'(buying cheap players with decent stats) type experiment and Dalglish like to buy the best players around for premium prices. Damien Comolli used a stats/scouting policy, so we had 3 people using 3 different methods.

And honestly, John Henry, Damien Comolli and Kenny Dalglish one season experiment has ruined Liverpool till at least 2020 - I'd be surprised if they get into the top 5 in the next 8 seasons.

Liverpool wont win anything under Henry, 'Moneyball' doesnt work in football and he should really just stick to baseball!

G.K.

Oranage2 wrote: »

Of course Dalglish is done.

John Henry wants to adapt a 'Moneyball'(buying cheap players with decent stats) type experiment and Dalglish like to buy the best players around for premium prices. Damien Comolli used a stats/scouting policy, so we had 3 people using 3 different methods.

And honestly, John Henry, Damien Comolli and Kenny Dalglish one season experiment has ruined Liverpool till at least 2020 - I'd be surprised if they get into the top 5 in the next 8 seasons.

Liverpool wont win anything under Henry, 'Moneyball' doesnt work in football and he should really just stick to baseball!

Disagree - you just have to find the right stats and then look for players, but don't only use stats in isolation. Other factors must be considered.

Cantona's Collars

Oranage2 wrote: »

Of course Dalglish is done.

John Henry wants to adapt a 'Moneyball'(buying cheap players with decent stats) type experiment and Dalglish like to buy the best players around for premium prices. Damien Comolli used a stats/scouting policy, so we had 3 people using 3 different methods.

And honestly, John Henry, Damien Comolli and Kenny Dalglish one season experiment has ruined Liverpool till at least 2020 - I'd be surprised if they get into the top 5 in the next 8 seasons.

Liverpool wont win anything under Henry, 'Moneyball' doesnt work in football and he should really just stick to baseball!

Moneyball doesn't work when you buy overpriced,mediocre English players.Done right and bargains can be had,unfortunately Liverpool made a balls of it and wasted an awful lot of money on dross.
Even Suarez,one of their best players has a very poor scoring record and for his talent & sizeable fee should be hitting the back of the net more regularly rather than just winning lots of corners.

Dalglish will be given another season or if results dictate he could be gone by Christmas,can't see him going anywhere this Summer.

MonkeyTennis

I dont know where to start with that. The mind boggles

kryogen

Oranage2 wrote: »

Of course Dalglish is done.

John Henry wants to adapt a 'Moneyball'(buying cheap players with decent stats) type experiment and Dalglish like to buy the best players around for premium prices. Damien Comolli used a stats/scouting policy, so we had 3 people using 3 different methods.

And honestly, John Henry, Damien Comolli and Kenny Dalglish one season experiment has ruined Liverpool till at least 2020 - I'd be surprised if they get into the top 5 in the next 8 seasons.

Liverpool wont win anything under Henry, 'Moneyball' doesnt work in football and he should really just stick to baseball!

Not seeing the difference in your parameters for Comolli and Henry, also, since when does Dalglish buy the best around for premium prices?

Certainly didnt happen in his last managerial position anyway.

He has said all the signings were his targets anyway

KeithAFC

G.K. wrote: »

Disagree - you just have to find the right stats and then look for players, but don't only use stats in isolation. Other factors must be considered.

Football doesn't work like that.

You have so many contributing factors in football. Potential ability in young players (although you never know all the time how it might turn out), fitness of a player, mentality, confidence issues, tactics and basic coaching.

The logic of signing some one with good crossing stats is a bit flawed because you could easily be ignoring the lack of pace of said player, the mentality of that player, he might be weak at beating players and so on. Stats can lie.

StephenHendry

KeithAFC wrote: »

Football doesn't work like that.

You have so many contributing factors in football. Potential ability in young players (although you never know all the time how it might turn out), fitness of a player, mentality, confidence issues, tactics and basic coaching.

The logic of signing some one with good crossing stats is a bit flawed because you could easily be ignoring the lack of pace of said player, the mentality of that player, he might be weak at beating players and so on. Stats can lie.

exactly, take city as an example, buying the best available wont win you the big trophies. a winning football isn't like a jigsaw puzzle

mufcboy1999

I'd give the champions league victory to You in 05 but don't be bragging about that Micky mouse treble and carling cups lol.

Try winning the league and come back to me until then ye will always a mediocre team who happen to over achieve every so often.

G.K.

KeithAFC wrote: »

Football doesn't work like that.

You have so many contributing factors in football. Potential ability in young players (although you never know all the time how it might turn out), fitness of a player, mentality, confidence issues, tactics and basic coaching.

The logic of signing some one with good crossing stats is a bit flawed because you could easily be ignoring the lack of pace of said player, the mentality of that player, he might be weak at beating players and so on. Stats can lie.

Hence why I said other factors must be taken into consideration...

I'm not advocating signing anyone on a single stat, that's A) stupid, and not Moneyball

donalg1

zerks wrote: »

Oranage2 wrote: »

Of course Dalglish is done.

John Henry wants to adapt a 'Moneyball'(buying cheap players with decent stats) type experiment and Dalglish like to buy the best players around for premium prices. Damien Comolli used a stats/scouting policy, so we had 3 people using 3 different methods.

And honestly, John Henry, Damien Comolli and Kenny Dalglish one season experiment has ruined Liverpool till at least 2020 - I'd be surprised if they get into the top 5 in the next 8 seasons.

Liverpool wont win anything under Henry, 'Moneyball' doesnt work in football and he should really just stick to baseball!

Moneyball doesn't work when you buy overpriced,mediocre English players.Done right and bargains can be had,unfortunately Liverpool made a balls of it and wasted an awful lot of money on dross.
Even Suarez,one of their best players has a very poor scoring record and for his talent & sizeable fee should be hitting the back of the net more regularly rather than just winning lots of corners.

Dalglish will be given another season or if results dictate he could be gone by Christmas,can't see him going anywhere this Summer.

Dont think Kenny will be sacked I'd imagine he will walk himself if anything. He is obviously cracking under the pressure and isn't up to the job at all.

Oranage2

G.K. wrote: »

Disagree - you just have to find the right stats and then look for players, but don't only use stats in isolation. Other factors must be considered.

Well I said moneyball doesnt work -


Stats are useful but there are too many variables in football for just going on stats.

As for moneyball, Baseball has drafts and wage/budget caps when signing players. Football has relatively none up to recently.

KeithAFC

G.K. wrote: »

Hence why I said other factors must be taken into consideration...

I'm not advocating signing anyone on a single stat, that's A) stupid, and not Moneyball

What is this moneyball then? It sounds like a lot of nonsense when it comes to football.

LuckyLloyd

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

I'd give the champions league victory to You in 05 but don't be bragging about that Micky mouse treble and carling cups lol.

Try winning the league and come back to me until then ye will always a mediocre team who happen to over achieve every so often.

So, we've gone from "cat" to "mediocre". Progress!

But yeah, "mediocre" doesn't mean what you think it means either.

LuckyLloyd

KeithAFC wrote: »

What is this moneyball then? It sounds like a lot of nonsense when it comes to football.

Have you read the book?

I am pie

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

I'd give the champions league victory to You in 05 but don't be bragging about that Micky mouse treble and carling cups lol.

Try winning the league and come back to me until then ye will always a mediocre team who happen to over achieve every so often.

Yawn. Another Liverpool obsessed Manc super fan. Take a number and get in line.

KeithAFC

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Have you read the book?

I looked it up on amazon and it seems to come from baseball?

G.K.

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well I said moneyball doesnt work -


Stats are useful but there are too many variables in football for just going on stats.

As for moneyball, Baseball has drafts and wage/budget caps when signing players. Football has relatively none up to recently.

What? This is irrelevant - the point is using the right stats combined with other factors, top quality players could be aquired cheaply.

Newcastle are the team closest to applying the strategy, and I mean, they're just failing utterly.

kryogen

I am pie wrote: »

Yawn. Another Liverpool obsessed Manc super fan. Take a number and get in line.

Becoming obsessed with looking for spots to call people obsessed eh?

G.K.

KeithAFC wrote: »

I looked it up on amazon and it seems to come from baseball?

it's about baseball but plenty of the principles, if adjusted correctly, should be able to be applied to many sports.

Sgt Pepper 64

Might as well close this thread then
The blames been put on someone else, a goalkeeping coach and the bloke who helped broker the deals for the players KENNY wanted!

He's got his vote of confidence

So, same time next year?!:eek:

donalg1

I am pie wrote: »

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

I'd give the champions league victory to You in 05 but don't be bragging about that Micky mouse treble and carling cups lol.

Try winning the league and come back to me until then ye will always a mediocre team who happen to over achieve every so often.

Yawn. Another Liverpool obsessed Manc super fan. Take a number and get in line.

I don't see how a united fan could be obsessed with Liverpool, probably just enjoy watching them getting worse every year and watching manager after manager failing at the club.

If anything it's the lfc fans with the obsession can't really blame them seeing as they are watching united win trophy after trophy year after year. No harm in being obsessed with that they might even learn something about being successful (might bring the operative word if course)

Jesus Wept

donalg1 wrote: »

I don't see how a united fan could be obsessed with Liverpool, probably just enjoy watching them getting worse every year and watching manager after manager failing at the club.

If anything it's the lfc fans with the obsession can't really blame them seeing as they are watching united win trophy after trophy year after year. No harm in being obsessed with that they might even learn something about being successful (might bring the operative word if course)

1/10

Oranage2

KeithAFC wrote: »

I looked it up on amazon and it seems to come from baseball?

It's just basically using stats to field a team ie. player X hits so many runs.

G.K. wrote: »

What? This is irrelevant - the point is using the right stats combined with other factors, top quality players could be aquired cheaply.

Newcastle are the team closest to applying the strategy, and I mean, they're just failing utterly.

Well, they used value in the market - There's nothing to say they wont fall off next season, Ba and Cisse could easily just stop scoring and AFAIK it has already happened to Ba.

The only way to win in football is by having the best players playing in a formation that suits them. Tried and tested!

G.K.

Oranage2 wrote: »

It's just basically using stats to field a team ie. player X hits so many runs.

Please read the book so you know what you are talking about. It's not anything as that simple.

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well, they used value in the market - There's nothing to say they wont fall off next season, Ba and Cisse could easily just stop scoring and AFAIK it has already happened to Ba.

The only way to win in football is by having the best players playing in a formation that suits them. Tried and tested!

No. Just no.

Btw Ba's been moved to the left flank recently, that's why he's not been scoring.

Nalz

I am pie wrote: »

Yawn. Another Liverpool obsessed Manc super fan. Take a number and get in line.

Yawn... Another Liverpool fan pointing out another .........................bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

bla.

PhlegmyMoses

G.K. wrote: »

What? This is irrelevant - the point is using the right stats combined with other factors, top quality players could be aquired cheaply.

Newcastle are the team closest to applying the strategy, and I mean, they're just failing utterly.

Have Newcastle ever said that they were using a moneyball strategy? They seem to just scout well and take a punt on players that others are wary of due to injuries and attitude such as Ben Arfa and Ba.

Cisse shows us another variable not as prominent in the US - the fact that the majority of the world's best baseball players play in the league you are purchasing them to play in. A lot of people had heard of Cisse and had an idea that he was doing well for Hoffenheim.

But then, it's hard to know whether this will translate over to the PL. Dzeko was immense for Wolfsburg but has hardly lit up the league. Mame Biram Diouf is now banging them in for Hannover but never really looked that kind of player for United. Cisse could have gone either way.

There are also tactical systems that players will do well in that the signing team are unwilling to use. For instance, Leon Britton has been excellent is Swansea's patient, passing game where the whole system suits his playing style.

If, say, Manchester United recognise that they need a midfielder to replace Scholes, look at Scholes' passing stats and then look at Britton's it would be reasonable to surmise that he would suit United to a tee. But then, United's passing game is different. They need inch perfect passes to the wingers, forward passes to the strikers. They are constantly putting the other team under pressure and need probing passes that bring teammates into play in dangerous areas. Does Leon Britton suit this?

Basically, you can look at all the stats you want in football but the most effective analysis is qualitative. It will henceforth be known as Useyoureyesball.

Oranage2

G.K. wrote: »

Please read the book so you know what you are talking about. It's not anything as that simple.



No. Just no.

Btw Ba's been moved to the left flank recently, that's why he's not been scoring.

That's why I said basically...


And do you actually believe that Newcastle is a modern moneyball?

I may be a bit older than you because I've seen 100s of strikers have wonder seasons esp ones from African.

I've also seen many teams have wonder seasons just to be crap the next one.


Moneyball doesnt work in football

FACT

StephenHendry

donalg1 wrote: »

Dont think Kenny will be sacked I'd imagine he will walk himself if anything. He is obviously cracking under the pressure and isn't up to the job at all.

kenny is kind in a win situation. he will and always be a legend in the club even if he throws in the ropes in the summer. the fans will point the finger at others anyway.