Yes Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool are done. MOD POST #425 *ALL READ*

PhlegmyMoses

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Just like Spurs are too, right? :rolleyes:

Spurs and Newcastle have no trophies in the locker. If Spurs finish fifth this year and lose their manager and some key players, what exactly will there be to remember from their couple of years in the sun?

This is already a season I'll remember for a very, very long time.

You don't seem to be acknowledging that many fans will disagree with this. I would imagine that many fans of Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea would not be happy with a cup win and 8th in the league.

Will I do some rolleyes too?

CSF

Mr Alan wrote: »

Dalglish was fine in the league up till 2012, we went through a horror run of form that hopefully we're out of. If we can perform next season in the league as we have for the majority of this season & avoid a repeat of that horror run of form, we'll be there or thereabouts for the CL places next season.

There's a lot more right with Liverpool than people seemingly seem willing to accept.

The league table is measured over 38 games. Form doesn't really come into it. Liverpool were just about ok enough up til Christmas, then turned absolutely muck. These 2 together don't balance out into anything positive. The League Cup doesn't count for much as long as the big teams insist in fielding their reserves in it, Dalglish really needs to win the FA Cup to turn the season into any kind of a success.

LuckyLloyd

If you're happier to finish 4th than win trophies then you're doing it wrong imo.

CSF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If you're happier to finish 4th than win trophies then you're doing it wrong imo.

The League Cup only barely counts as a trophy.

PhlegmyMoses

You get into the CL and your best players will stay. You will sign better players. Players want to be playing in the CL. Better players give you a better chance at winning cups in the future.

If Spurs get CL football, Modric will be more inclined to stay, for example, as will Bale. If they don't, Modric will almost certainly leave in the summer, and if they continue to fail to get into the CL, so will Bale in the future.

LuckyLloyd

That's the problem though, your best players will still leave to go to bigger clubs who can go and maybe win the CL if you can't compete in it yourself.

Fabregas and Alonso left being in the CL to try and win the CL. Modric will at some point too. I don't see the point in being at the table and not trying to eat some steak while you're there. We weren't just in Europe to be in Europe, and I hope that when we get back to the CL we'll be good enough to give it a rattle.

PhlegmyMoses

The Fabregas and Alonso situations are completely different and did not boil down to Club A>Club B.

There are only really 2, maybe 3, teams that can take players from Liverpool if you were in the CL, and they can only have so many on their books.

eagle eye

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Stagnation in the sense that you're still a cup team and aren't having any sort of crack at the league despite spending a fortune. It's more of the same in the league, if not worse. You're 15 points off fourth. Everton are above you in the league despite barely sending a cent and have had a decent crack at the FA cup as well.

And that's the point, it would seem retarded to sack someone who wins two trophies in a season. So CSF's point that winning the FA Cup will save him was justified. Because the league form for a club of Liverpool's standing will not enamour him to FSG, who are notoriously ruthless, especially when you consider how much money they have given him. They clearly aren't happy with things considering they've sacked a load of the backroom staff.

They hadn't won anything in years, the League Cup was the first silverware for 6 years at Liverpool. How can you call that stagnation? Surely the object of the exercise is to win tournaments and Liverpool have climbed the first rung of the ladder by winning one.

CSF

eagle eye wrote: »

They hadn't won anything in years, the League Cup was the first silverware for 6 years at Liverpool. How can you call that stagnation? Surely the object of the exercise is to win tournaments and Liverpool have climbed the first rung of the ladder by winning one.

The League Cup hardly counts for much.

Turtyturd

CSF wrote: »

The League Cup hardly counts for much.

Unless your team are involved.

missingtime

Its a start though. I think that's the point most people are trying to make.

CSF

CSF wrote: »

The League Cup only barely counts as a trophy.

lol.

Ask that to any team that won it.

3 trophies up for grabs every year, premiership is 2 or a 3 horse race.

So 2 trophies left, winning either or both of them is an acheivement and adds silverware to the cabinet.

It's sad you have to explain this to people

citytillidie

Turtyturd wrote: »

Unless your team are involved.

Very true, i have seen other big teams celebrate winning it like it means something to them in recent times when they went a year or two without winning a trophy

Dubit10

Kenny Dalglish has taken us to two cup finals in his first full year in charge. How people want him replaced is utterly baffling. It takes time and money to build a good team and squad capable of making the top four. Let's not be Chelsea and give the man time. He's earned that right.

DB10

Trophies?

Liverpool have won the formerly Milk/Coca Cola Cup and nothing else yet. Considering they spent over 100m pounds and played their first team throughout this reserve competition, whilst winning on penalties in a dire pereformance against a mid table Championship side, I wouldn't go crowing about it. In fact I'd be embarrassed and keep quiet.

Sure we might as well call the Charity Shield a trophy while were at it.

El Inho

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If you're happier to finish 4th than win trophies then you're doing it wrong imo.

ah lets be fair...id give it all up to be 4th with tuesday and wednesday football again next season.

Revolution9

DB10 wrote: »

Trophies?

Liverpool have won the formerly Milk/Coca Cola Cup and nothing else yet. Considering they spent over 100m pounds and played their first team throughout this reserve competition, whilst winning on penalties in a dire pereformance against a mid table Championship side, I wouldn't go crowing about it. In fact I'd be embarrassed and keep quiet.

Sure we might as well call the Charity Shield a trophy while were at it.

Convienent of you to omit the away victories against Stoke, Chelsea and Man City along the way to the final. It wasn't just a one off game against a Championship side. Man City took the two legged semi final very seriously, while Stoke and Stamford Bridge are very tough places to go to.

There is enough valid arguments against Dalglish out there without having to pathetically attempt to belittle the League Cup and the achievement of winning it.

FFS, "reserve competition", the first team of the then Champions of Europe and England's biggest club celebrated winning it pretty joyously in 08 or 09

DB10

DB10 wrote: »

Trophies?

Liverpool have won the formerly Milk/Coca Cola Cup and nothing else yet. Considering they spent over 100m pounds and played their first team throughout this reserve competition, whilst winning on penalties in a dire pereformance against a mid table Championship side, I wouldn't go crowing about it. In fact I'd be embarrassed and keep quiet.

Sure we might as well call the Charity Shield a trophy while were at it.

http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/your_tale_is_enthralling_trollcat.jpg

DB10

Revolution9 wrote: »

Convienent of you to omit the away victories against Stoke, Chelsea and Man City along the way to the final. It wasn't just a one off game against a Championship side. Man City took the two legged semi final very seriously, while Stoke and Stamford Bridge are very tough places to go to.

There is enough valid arguments against Dalglish out there without having to pathetically attempt to belittle the League Cup and the achievement of winning it.

FFS, "reserve competition", the first team of the then Champions of Europe and England's biggest club celebrated winning it pretty joyously in 08 or 09

The thing with the big clubs like United, Arsenal , Chelsea is , they play first team players when is needed. Not against lower league opposition like Liverpool.

It's one of the reasons Liverpool are so poor at bringing through young talent compared to the big clubs.

Dubit10

DB10 wrote: »

The thing with the big clubs like United, Arsenal , Chelsea is , they play first team players when is needed. Not against lower league opposition like Liverpool.

It's one of the reasons Liverpool are so poor at bringing through young talent compared to the big clubs.

What kind of bait are you using with that rod?

Sasquatch76

DB10 wrote: »

The thing with the big clubs like United, Arsenal , Chelsea is , they play first team players when is needed. Not against lower league opposition like Liverpool.

It's one of the reasons Liverpool are so poor at bringing through young talent compared to the big clubs.

7/10

El Inho

rarnes1 wrote: »

http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/your_tale_is_enthralling_trollcat.jpg

im seeing a cross-thread theme :P

staker

DB10 wrote: »

The thing with the big clubs like United, Arsenal , Chelsea is , they play first team players when is needed. Not against lower league opposition like Liverpool.

It's one of the reasons Liverpool are so poor at bringing through young talent compared to the big clubs.

Dubit10 wrote: »

What kind of bait are you using with that rod?

Very similar usernames....Schizo poster?

DB10

This is a serious discussion. I wish pictures were removed from the forum, they add nothing to it as a discussion.

The fact is Liverpool play first team players in that competition while the other clubs nurture their young players.

Liverpool have no youth coming through bar Sterling and he wants to go back to London from where he was purchased, due to family issues. Spearing is not at the level of the Big 4 clubs.

Dubit10

Dubit10 wrote: »

What kind of bait are you using with that rod?

Same chap was shouting for Wengers head not so long ago and complaining that Arsenal hadn't won a trophy in 7 years :pac::pac::pac:

DB10

rarnes1 wrote: »

Same chap was shouting for Wengers head not so long ago and complaining that Arsenal hadn't won a trophy in 7 years :pac::pac::pac:

This thread is about Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool, there is a separate thread for Wenger and Arsenal.

El Inho

DB10 wrote: »

The thing with the big clubs like United, Arsenal , Chelsea is , they play first team players when is needed. Not against lower league opposition like Liverpool.

It's one of the reasons Liverpool are so poor at bringing through young talent compared to the big clubs.

while i do enjoy the witty banter and that which can be enjoyed among rivalries, i find you annyoing.

consider yourself ignored.

Samich

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If you're happier to finish 4th than win trophies then you're doing it wrong imo.

You're wrong.

The league is where it's at.

Anyone would tell you that?

Only someone doing crap in the league and good in the cup would tell you different :rolleyes:

Revolution9

DB10 wrote: »

This is a serious discussion. I wish pictures were removed from the forum, they add nothing to it as a discussion.

The fact is Liverpool play first team players in that competition while the other clubs nurture their young players.

Liverpool have no youth coming through bar Sterling and he wants to go back to London from where he was purchased, due to family issues. Spearing is not at the level of the Big 4 clubs.

Martin Kelly, Jay Spearing, Jonjo Shelvey, Jon Flanagan, Raheem Sterling and Jack Robinson have all featured this season.

That's more than half an XI.

Your talking b*llox.

rossie1977

DB10 wrote: »

The thing with the big clubs like United, Arsenal , Chelsea is , they play first team players when is needed. Not against lower league opposition like Liverpool.

It's one of the reasons Liverpool are so poor at bringing through young talent compared to the big clubs.

what young players have come through the ranks at chelsea recently?? or at utd, cleverly and wellbeck are the first players to come through at utd for years and they have barely 20 games played

all top clubs should hang their heads in shame given how poor they ALL have been bringing through talent this past 10 years, gone are the days when man utd rolled the likes of beckham, nevilles, scholes off the line or liverpool had fowler, mcmanaman, redknapp, gerrard, owen

Samich

Dubit10 wrote: »

Kenny Dalglish has taken us to two cup finals in his first full year in charge. How people want him replaced is utterly baffling. It takes time and money to build a good team and squad capable of making the top four. Let's not be Chelsea and give the man time. He's earned that right.

Cardiff got to the league final too you know?

Birmingham won it last year and got relegated, winning the trophy didn't mean Mcleish was a good manager or shouldn't have went. He's doing crap at villa too.

DB10

Revolution9 wrote: »

Martin Kelly, Jay Spearing, Jonjo Shelvey, Jon Flanagan, Raheem Sterling and Jack Robinson have all featured this season.

That's more than half an XI.

Your talking b*llox.

I've mentioned Sterling and Spearing.

Sterling and Shelvey were stolen from London academies, indeed Sterling wants to leave Liverpool apparently for lack of match time. Down to Liverpools CC first team policy they will lose him.

The rest aren't good enough for a top half side.

Samich

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If you're happier to finish 4th than win trophies then you're doing it wrong imo.

Also just to add, last year after they went into a downward spiral brum fans said they'd give up the League Cup for PL survival.

And let's not forget, Liverpool haven't won the final yet :pac:

plasmaguy

Samich wrote: »

You're wrong.

The league is where it's at.

Anyone would tell you that?

Only someone doing crap in the league and good in the cup would tell you different :rolleyes:

I'd say most pool fans and indeed arsenal, spurs, newcastle, everton fans would beg to differ.

Does anyone remember anything of note from Arsenals 2006/7 season or any season since?

Most league campaigns are boring, playing the likes of stoke, fulham, wolves so on, week in week out, often just going through the motions.

Everyone remembers a day out at wembly or winning a trophey.

What wants to remember a day out playing some bottom of the table club in the middle of january?

I hate when people try to reduce football to stats and league table positions and points and goals for and against and all that, and strip away all the excitment of the sport, and indeed analyse it too much.

Anyone who gets depressed about their sides position in the table needs to take a good long hard look at themselves. Far far more important things in the world to worry about.

El Inho

Samich wrote: »

You're wrong.

The league is where it's at.

Anyone would tell you that?

Only someone doing crap in the league and good in the cup would tell you different :rolleyes:

while the league is a clear priority, I think alot of the liverpool hate club tend to undermine the cups importance....

like ive heard a few united supporters go so far as to say 'its only the fa cup'...

now im irish, and so dont have an emotional bond to the english fa...but the fa cup is huge, and should we win it, that commands respect.

also the carling cup, while considered to be a mickey mouse cup, its a cup that i didnt see alot of other clubs winning this year, and beating serious clubs to do that.

while the league is more important, i think it must be considered that all cups take effort and need class on a certain level. just because lfc are doing well in it, doesnt mean it doesnt mean anything.

rossie1977

its tough to win any knockout trophy, just ask man city and man utd fans who thought their clubs would walk this years europa league

Paul Tergat

plasmaguy wrote: »

Anyone who gets depressed about their sides position in the table needs to take a good long hard look at themselves. Far far more important things in the world to worry about.

Meh. Not to drag this OT but I think maybe football just means more to others than it does to you?

DB10

Samich wrote: »

Also just to add, last year after they went into a downward spiral brum fans said they'd give up the League Cup for PL survival.

And let's not forget, Liverpool haven't won the final yet :pac:

Agreed fully.

DB10

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Meh. Not to drag this OT but I think maybe football just means more to others than it does to you?

Its hard to find Liverpool fans normally talking about football, but when they win a few matches. They're everywhere...:pac:

Cyrus

DB10 wrote: »

Revolution9 wrote: »

Martin Kelly, Jay Spearing, Jonjo Shelvey, Jon Flanagan, Raheem Sterling and Jack Robinson have all featured this season.

That's more than half an XI.

Your talking b*llox.

I've mentioned Sterling and Spearing.

Sterling and Shelvey were stolen from London academies, indeed Sterling wants to leave Liverpool apparently for lack of match time. Down to Liverpools CC first team policy they will lose him.

The rest aren't good enough for a top half side.

Martin Kelly definitely is and I can't see how you can make a judgement on Robinson and Flanagan yet, you are baiting plain and simple,

Look at the teams that have won the league cup over the past 10 years, brum were the exception a top 6 team normally wins it.

Also where I'd the world class talent united, Chelsea and arsenal have brought through from their own academies ?

Will I Amnt

plasmaguy wrote: »

I hate when people try to reduce football to stats and league table positions and points and goals for and against and all that, and strip away all the excitment of the sport, and indeed analyse it too much.

Yea,let's get rid of all that crap and just play for the fun of it.We can all be top of the league :rolleyes:
Just when you think you've seen it all in this forum you get a gem like that

Turtyturd

Samich wrote: »

Also just to add, last year after they went into a downward spiral brum fans said they'd give up the League Cup for PL survival.

And let's not forget, Liverpool haven't won the final yet :pac:

The final was weeks ago.

LuckyLloyd

DB10 wrote: »

This thread is about Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool, there is a separate thread for Wenger and Arsenal.

You seem awfully perturbed that Liverpool prevailed today, mad even. Why are you so mad?

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You seem awfully perturbed that Liverpool prevailed today, mad even. Why are you so mad?

It's funny to watch.

He probably had a load of money on the toffees :pac::pac:

The_Kew_Tour

Fair play to Liverpool today.

Love them or hate them the history they have is magnificent and to be in 2 cup finals with some of the shambles they have produced this season is still good going.

Would not back against them no matter who they meet in final.

redzerdrog

rarnes1 wrote: »

He probably had a load of money on the toffees :pac::pac:

Highly doubtfull

You have to be 18 to gamble;)

G.K.

rossie1977 wrote: »

what young players have come through the ranks at chelsea recently?? or at utd, cleverly and wellbeck are the first players to come through at utd for years and they have barely 20 games played

all top clubs should hang their heads in shame given how poor they ALL have been bringing through talent this past 10 years, gone are the days when man utd rolled the likes of beckham, nevilles, scholes off the line or liverpool had fowler, mcmanaman, redknapp, gerrard, owen

Fabio Borini, Gokhan Tore, Miroslav Stoch, Nemanja Matic have all left Chelsea in the last 2 years after coming through, and all are among the highly rated young players in Europe, and 1st choice for their clubs. There's Jack Cork, Franco Di Santo and Michael Mancienne too.

Glico Man

G.K. wrote: »

Fabio Borini, Gokhan Tore, Miroslav Stoch, Nemanja Matic have all left Chelsea in the last 2 years after coming through, and all are among the highly rated young players in Europe, and 1st choice for their clubs. There's Jack Cork, Franco Di Santo and Michael Mancienne too.

They weren't considered good enough for the Chelsea first team though, and left because they couldn't get game time. Stagnation would've set in by now if they stayed at Chelsea unless they were to go on loan.

killwill

Cyrus wrote: »

Martin Kelly definitely is and I can't see how you can make a judgement on Robinson and Flanagan yet, you are baiting plain and simple,

Look at the teams that have won the league cup over the past 10 years, brum were the exception a top 6 team normally wins it.

Also where I'd the world class talent united, Chelsea and arsenal have brought through from their own academies ?

Well at Arsenal you just have to look at their first team in fairness and you will see Ramsey, Wilshere, Walcott. I could be wrong but are they not ex-Arsenal youth Academy players?

At United right now in the first team you have Cleverley and Wellbeck as the most obvious with alot more coming through in the next year or two. They may not make it at United but they will make it big.

G.K.

aaronh007 wrote: »

They weren't considered good enough for the Chelsea first team though, and left because they couldn't get game time. Stagnation would've set in by now if they stayed at Chelsea unless they were to go on loan.

I must have missed the point of the guy I quoted.