Yes Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool are done. MOD POST #425 *ALL READ*

eagle eye

Samich wrote: »

Kenny is losing his marbles. He's not able to manage a big club, just look at him coming onto the pitch. It's really funny, I hope he stays

The amount of epically stupid statements in this thread is just unreal. Here is just one example of many.

Dalglish managed Liverpool to multiple titles. How on earth you don't know that or can just decide it doesn't prove anything is beyond me.

Helix

Samich wrote: »

It's not really pointless. The league is based on consistency. Winning a cup can be down to luck. the league really decides who's a good team and who's not. The 12 games in that poor form is 39% of the season so far. So for 39% of this season 18 teams have been in better form than Liverpool.

fortunately for them the table is calculated over 100% of games, not 39% of them

Paully D

Carroll launches a volley of abuse at Dalglish. Gerrard isn't best pleased with him coming onto the pitch. Are the players starting to turn?

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-Andy-Carroll-aims-f-word-parting-shot-at-Kenny-Dalglish-article885811.html

Andy Carroll let rip with a volley of abuse at boss Kenny Dalglish as Liverpool went into ­meltdown.

The £35million striker’s foul-mouthed tirade came as he was subbed 11 minutes from the end of another embarrassing defeat.

Carroll, who had earlier been booked for diving and was mocked by Toon fans throughout, made no attempt to hide his feelings before marching down the tunnel. To add to Liverpool’s misery, Pepe Reina was sent off for violent conduct, dipping his head into James Perch, and departed the pitch offering the Newcastle defender a fight.

Carroll stormed off the pitch red-faced and close to tears, growling: “F****** joke this, f****** ****, f*** off,” towards the dug out.

He is suspended for the next three games including the FA Cup semi final with Everton. Carroll, who was booked for diving in the penalty area, also clashed with Pardew on the touchline, telling his former boss: “It wasn’t a dive you f****** c***.”

Helix

eagle eye wrote: »

The amount of epically stupid statements in this thread is just unreal. Here is just one example of many.

Dalglish managed Liverpool to multiple titles. How on earth you don't know that or can just decide it doesn't prove anything is beyond me.

that was a long time ago

jack charlton brough ireland to a couple of world cups, but you wouldn't really fancy him taking over again

Leftist

eagle eye wrote: »

The amount of epically stupid statements in this thread is just unreal. Here is just one example of many.

Dalglish managed Liverpool to multiple titles. How on earth you don't know that or can just decide it doesn't prove anything is beyond me.

Liverpool are not a big club anymore. Football has changed dramatically since his glory days of the 80s. Not a stupid comment at all.

could you imagine him at Bayern, Madrid or even arsenal?

he was a disaster at celtic and was sacked by newcastle.

quarryman

gosplan wrote: »

AFAIK Amos played 90 minutes for Untied and didn't concede

ok, this weekend then.

counterlock

Helix wrote: »

fortunately for them the table is calculated over 100% of games, not 39% of them

Its one of those ones where you can use the stats to back up your arguement from either side. I'm sure if you look at the season until xmas Liverpool are probably top 4 or 5. You can roll out any stat you want if you are selective with the criteria. What the stat proves is that Liverpool have played badly since xmas - which we all knew anyway.

RasTa

Samich wrote: »

It's not really pointless. The league is based on consistency. Winning a cup can be down to luck. the league really decides who's a good team and who's not. The 12 games in that poor form is 39% of the season so far. So for 39% of this season 18 teams have been in better form than Liverpool.

Helix wrote: »

fortunately for them the table is calculated over 100% of games, not 39% of them

Basically what I was going to say ^^

Leftist

the point of showing a table of games played since Jan is to indicate liverpool's form. It's a fair reflection of form since that time of the season and should offer absolutely zero consolation based on the fact that the season was in august as liverpool were nowhere near the top 4 before the time frame began. But carry on.

Leftist

counterlock wrote: »

Its one of those ones where you can use the stats to back up your arguement from either side. I'm sure if you look at the season until xmas Liverpool are probably top 4 or 5. You can roll out any stat you want if you are selective with the criteria. What the stat proves is that Liverpool have played badly since xmas - which we all knew anyway.

when was the last time liverpool were top 4 this season?

I think they got to about 5th for a week about 2 months ago.

eagle eye

Leftist wrote: »

Liverpool are not a big club anymore. Football has changed dramatically since his glory days of the 80s. Not a stupid comment at all.

could you imagine him at Bayern, Madrid or even arsenal?

he was a disaster at celtic and was sacked by newcastle.

I don't know what planet you are living on but Liverpool are still a huge club.

Dalglish only spent a couple of months as manager of Celtic after Barnes was sacked. At Newcastle he had one full season in charge and didn't do that badly.

At Liverpool he took over an older team and won the league, it took him two years to replace those players and get Liverpool back on top.

At Blackburn we thought we were all set to have a go at the league once we bought Shearer but we weren't good enough, the next season he went out and bought a new goalkeeper, central midfielder and Chris Sutton. We won the league the next season.

Its proven that Dalglish will get his team where it needs to be given the time to do it. He has to be given another season in charge, if he fails to improve the team dramatically next season then there is a case for calling for his resignation/sacking.

Helix

Leftist wrote: »

the point of showing a table of games played since Jan is to indicate liverpool's form. It's a fair reflection of form since that time of the season and should offer absolutely zero consolation based on the fact that the season was in august as liverpool were nowhere near the top 4 before the time frame began. But carry on.

yeah but that's kinda my point. liverpool werent going to finish top 4 in august, in december, in january or now. they've gone through a shocking run, but they're not exactly any worse off in terms of position and points than most objective people wouldve thought they'd be at this stage before the season started

midtable teams, which is exactly what liverpool are, go through much patchier form than other clubs. they'll have runs like liverpool are on now, and then they'll go 8 games without losing, but they'll never be consistent enough to be right up there at the top end

its something liverpool fans have to get used to given the current squad. even a change of manager wouldn't really make much of a difference without major changes in players. it's not exactly the first season liverpool have been a midtable side either. 8th at the moment with 11 losses, 6th last season with 14 losses, 7th the season before with 11 losses.

fan expectation is no longer based in reality. they're not a top tier team any more, and they'll need a lot of work to become one again

sReq | uTeK

Brilliant.

Helix

eagle eye wrote: »

Its proven that Dalglish will get his team where it needs to be given the time to do it

no, its proven that he could to it a generation ago

things have changed

eagle eye

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Brilliant.

Thanks for posting something thats already in the thread.:rolleyes:

sReq | uTeK

No Worries

eagle eye

Helix wrote: »

no, its proven that he could to it a generation ago

things have changed

I love the way you turn around now and bring up the generation thing. When Houllier went to Villa I told you it would be a disaster because he had been out of management for five years and at his age and with his history of health problems it would never work out.

Dalglish had to deal with that as well but he is a younger man and in good health. He is now fully back in the game and as I've said he has proven in the past that given time he will bring success to a club.

Helix

eagle eye wrote: »

I love the way you turn around now and bring up the generation thing. When Houllier went to Villa I told you it would be a disaster because he had been out of management for five years and at his age and with his history of health problems it would never work out.

Dalglish had to deal with that as well but he is a younger man and in good health. He is now fully back in the game and as I've said he has proven in the past that given time he will bring success to a club.

houllier wasnt a disaster though in fairness, things were staring to come together nicely for him

kenny has pretty much shown that he's lost touch with the modern game on a number of levels consistently this year

we get it, you think he's a hero coz he delivered at blackburn, but christ almighty that was a long time ago. he's failed consistently since that job

Glico Man

quarryman wrote: »

ok, this weekend then.

Tim Krul didn't concede either

happyman81

eagle eye wrote: »

Leftist wrote: »

Liverpool are not a big club anymore. Football has changed dramatically since his glory days of the 80s. Not a stupid comment at all.

could you imagine him at Bayern, Madrid or even arsenal?

he was a disaster at celtic and was sacked by newcastle.

I don't know what planet you are living on but Liverpool are still a huge club.

Dalglish only spent a couple of months as manager of Celtic after Barnes was sacked. At Newcastle he had one full season in charge and didn't do that badly.

At Liverpool he took over an older team and won the league, it took him two years to replace those players and get Liverpool back on top.

At Blackburn we thought we were all set to have a go at the league once we bought Shearer but we weren't good enough, the next season he went out and bought a new goalkeeper, central midfielder and Chris Sutton. We won the league the next season.

Its proven that Dalglish will get his team where it needs to be given the time to do it. He has to be given another season in charge, if he fails to improve the team dramatically next season then there is a case for calling for his resignation/sacking.

At Newcastle he took over on of the best attacking lineups in Europe with a defence that needed sorting. His reaction to that was to sell our attackers, replace them with garbage thus leaving us exposed if our one remaining good striker was injured... we all know the rest. The man was a disaster at Newcastle. Title contenders to mid table in 18 months.

How is that 'didn't do badly'? The Dalglish delusion goes on and on...

Leftist

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't know what planet you are living on but Liverpool are still a huge club.

historically yes but no chance anymore.

Big name but now not a big club anymore.

Helix wrote: »

fan expectation is no longer based in reality. they're not a top tier team any more, and they'll need a lot of work to become one again

agreed.

eagle eye

Helix wrote: »

houllier wasnt a disaster though in fairness, things were staring to come together nicely for him

kenny has pretty much shown that he's lost touch with the modern game on a number of levels consistently this year

we get it, you think he's a hero coz he delivered at blackburn, but christ almighty that was a long time ago. he's failed consistently since that job

Here if you are going to say something like the second paragraph give us some examples.

Helix

eagle eye wrote: »

Here if you are going to say something like the second paragraph give us some examples.

his expert handling of the media
his reliance on old fashioned formations and tactics that paying off
his typically old-school lack of intelligence with substitutions
his uninspired signings

kryogen

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't know what planet you are living on but Liverpool are still a huge club.

Dalglish only spent a couple of months as manager of Celtic after Barnes was sacked. At Newcastle he had one full season in charge and didn't do that badly.

At Liverpool he took over an older team and won the league, it took him two years to replace those players and get Liverpool back on top.

At Blackburn we thought we were all set to have a go at the league once we bought Shearer but we weren't good enough, the next season he went out and bought a new goalkeeper, central midfielder and Chris Sutton. We won the league the next season.

Its proven that Dalglish will get his team where it needs to be given the time to do it. He has to be given another season in charge, if he fails to improve the team dramatically next season then there is a case for calling for his resignation/sacking.

Your chronology is off slightly, and he did terrible at Newcastle, absolutely terrible. You will have to go a long way to find a Geordie who agrees with your viewpoint that he did ok.

amiable

Helix wrote: »

his expert handling of the media
his reliance on old fashioned formations and tactics that paying off
his typically old-school lack of intelligence with substitutions
his uninspired signings

On the tactics I do believe Steve Clarke has a big say in the tactics and that's why he was brought on board so early

Leftist

Defo did well at blackburn. But football has changed since 1995. He cant' deal with the personalities, egos, tactics or modern media.

You could say it's all everyone else's fault, and I'm sure he would, footballers are selfish, media are hounds, that is the way for everyone though.

The longer he goes on trying to blame everyone else for liverpool's problems the worse they will get. His whole handling of public matters has been a complete train wreck every time.

counterlock

Leftist wrote: »

when was the last time liverpool were top 4 this season?

I think they got to about 5th for a week about 2 months ago.

1Man City 1838452Man Utd 1833453Tottenham 1715384Chelsea 1815345Liverpool 199346Arsenal 188337Newcastle 19130

Here you go. 5th at the turn of the new year. So you can roll out any stat you want to prove anything you want, the only one that counts is the position at the end of the year

Leftist

counterlock wrote: »

1Man City 1838452Man Utd 1833453Tottenham 1715384Chelsea 1815345Liverpool 199346Arsenal 188337Newcastle 19130

Here you go. 5th at the turn of the new year. So you can roll out any stat you want to prove anything you want, the only one that counts is the position at the end of the year

for how long though? you said they were top 4/5 side before this recent 'slump'. Whereever they finish is their rightful position.

counterlock

I'm agreeing with you. I was saying that the stats from Jan 1st can be rolled out only to highlight a lack of form.


PS. apologies for the formatting in my prevous post

Iang87

The form recently honestly I dont care about. We are not making 4th and havent been for a long time now. Liverpool have potentially 2 matches left this year that matter and thats all those players have been thinking about for weeks.

They are all playing as if they are watching themselves to make sure they stay fit, lets not forget the euros coming up for a lot of them. Is it a bad attitude ya its crap I hate it however it can be tolerated at the minute provided when the time comes they leave it all on the field. Thats the everton game coming that is all that matters now. I hope that is whats going on but thats just idle thoughts really.

If liverpool win the Fa cup to go with the league cup Kenny is still gonna get ****, if Liverpool finished 4th and got nowhere in the cups some people would whinge that we should be trying to win all competitions. Basically he cannot win in my opinion.

Should he stay or go, I dont know to be honest i'm more confused now than I was at the start of the season. In saying all that I must say if we had a center forward, a goalscorer in the team I think it would be so much different. We dont though so we are where we are.

As for your man above spouting that Liverpool are not a big club. Fans make a club big and liverpool fans (vast majority) aren't going to stop supporting because it isn't going well right now. We all supposed to jump ship to city because they're on the up, come off it

Fr Tod Umptious

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Are you serious?

Why is anyone taking heed of their league performances? I'd step back for a second and realise the complete lunacy of that question.

A CL spot was never realistic you say? Well everybody from the owners, the manager and the players made clear the clubs main ambition this year was for CL football.

Of course the CL spot was an ambition at the start of the reason,

But by the time they had the Carling Cup won they were no longer realistic challengers for a CL place.

So with Europe secured league placing meant feck all any more, and thus they are just winding it down.

Expect a good performance in the FA Cup games but I would not read anything into their league form since the end of Feb.

Nalz

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Expect a good performance in the FA Cup games but I would not read anything into their league form since the end of Feb.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Try telling that to the supporters who went to those games and watched their team produce absolute shíte performances. I don't its that simple that they lost interest and threw in the towel.... should never be allowed do that at Liverpool.

Fr Tod Umptious

Trilla wrote: »

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Try telling that to the supporters who went to those games and watched their team produce absolute shíte performances.

Well yea if I were a fan I'd be unhappy, but I'm not, I'm a neutral observer from a distance and that's the way I see it playing out since they won the Carling Cup.

Helix

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

A CL spot was never realistic you say? Well everybody from the owners, the manager and the players made clear the clubs main ambition this year was for CL football.

since does ambition to achieve something make it realistic?

sure it was likely villa's ambition to reach the champions league this season too

and it's my ambition to write an oscar winning movie

Iang87

Trilla wrote: »

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Try telling that to the supporters who went to those games and watched their team produce absolute shíte performances. I don't its that simple that they lost interest and threw in the towel.... should never be allowed do that at Liverpool.

I completely understand your point but I think comparing the league performances to cup performances you can only come to that sort of conclusion

happyman81

Iang87 wrote: »

The form recently honestly I dont care about. We are not making 4th and havent been for a long time now. Liverpool have potentially 2 matches left this year that matter and thats all those players have been thinking about for weeks.

They are all playing as if they are watching themselves to make sure they stay fit, lets not forget the euros coming up for a lot of them. Is it a bad attitude ya its crap I hate it however it can be tolerated at the minute provided when the time comes they leave it all on the field. Thats the everton game coming that is all that matters now. I hope that is whats going on but thats just idle thoughts really.

If liverpool win the Fa cup to go with the league cup Kenny is still gonna get ****, if Liverpool finished 4th and got nowhere in the cups some people would whinge that we should be trying to win all competitions. Basically he cannot win in my opinion.

Should he stay or go, I dont know to be honest i'm more confused now than I was at the start of the season. In saying all that I must say if we had a center forward, a goalscorer in the team I think it would be so much different. We dont though so we are where we are.

As for your man above spouting that Liverpool are not a big club. Fans make a club big and liverpool fans (vast majority) aren't going to stop supporting because it isn't going well right now. We all supposed to jump ship to city because they're on the up, come off it

That's what £100m buys you? Errah, we have the league cup and the players couldn't be arsed?

Jesus wept.

sReq | uTeK

Some of the stuff in here flancrest would be proud of.

whatnext

Loving the irony that a number of supporters (NB. I didn't say all) of a club that bang on about "net spend" are not overly concerned about league position, at nearly £1m per place.

wonderfullife

If you need a starker illustration of how times have changed, Dalglish signed both Aldridge and Houghton from Oxford United (combined fee £1.5 million) and Barnes from Watford for £900k.

This was a different era altogether. As mentioned above Howard Kendall, to my mind, is not a "great manager" yet his mid 1980s record with Everton is on a par with Dalglish's liverpool record (2 titles, european cup winners cup, FA Cup , 2 charity shields).

People tend to forget Kenny was player manager until his last game in 1990, albeit using himself for just important games. It'd be impossible to do that nowadays at the highest level.

Proving your ability to manage in the 1980s is far different to today. His track record is not that of a "great manager". Back then the media spotlight, the finances, the way football was run is far different. Back then the same starting 11 would play nearly every week. Back then there wasn't a business like culture with foreign chairmen, exorbitant wages and instant success wasn't demanded.

Kenny, without doubt, is one of the most skilled footballers to grace a liverpool and scotland shirt. To consider him a "great manager" is a nonsense and, to my mind, he hasn't proved his capacity to manage in the modern era thus far. He MAY do that given more time but i havent seen anything thus far tactically, transfer wise or media wise to indicate he can do well in the demands of the modern game.

Samich

eagle eye wrote: »

The amount of epically stupid statements in this thread is just unreal. Here is just one example of many.

Dalglish managed Liverpool to multiple titles. How on earth you don't know that or can just decide it doesn't prove anything is beyond me.

Haha he's too old. Just because he could do it 10 years ago doesn't mean he can do it now.

El Inho

Samich wrote: »

Haha he's too old. Just because he could do it 10 years ago doesn't mean he can do it now.

thought this was the lfc thread for a second as was going to go into ignore over load

Samich

Helix wrote: »

fortunately for them the table is calculated over 100% of games, not 39% of them

Unfortunately for them they're languishing in mid table losting to QPR and Wigan. It's a really funny situation and I for one hope KK (Krap Kenny) stays

Leiva

Breaking News : Kenny Dalglish sacked by Liverpool Football Club

Helix

Samich wrote: »

Unfortunately for them they're languishing in mid table

but thats where they probably should be given the team theyve got

its not like they're a top 4 team playing like crap, theyre a midtable team playing like a midtable team

Samich

eldwaro wrote: »

thought this was the lfc thread for a second as was going to go into ignore over load

huh?

willmunny1990

mixednuts wrote: »

Breaking News : Kenny Dalglish sacked by Liverpool Football Club

trust me when I say this, most of us wish that day doesn't come for a long, long time.

it's too enjoyable at the moment.

Samich

Helix wrote: »

but thats where they probably should be given the team theyve got

its not like they're a top 4 team playing like crap, theyre a midtable team playing like a midtable team

They're not playing like a midtable team. They're playing like a team fighting relegation (hence why the last 12 games is important)

Helix

Samich wrote: »

They're not playing like a midtable team. They're playing like a team fighting relegation (hence why the last 12 games is important)

theyre not playing like a team fighting relegation though. theyre playing like a midtable team in a crappy run of form. something most midtable teams go through at one point or another the odd season

Samich

Helix wrote: »

theyre not playing like a team fighting relegation though. theyre playing like a midtable team in a crappy run of form. something most midtable teams go through at one point or another the odd season

No I'm afraid they're playing like relegation candidates. Relegation candidates usually get beaten every week.

willmunny1990

Helix wrote: »

theyre not playing like a team fighting relegation though. theyre playing like a midtable team in a crappy run of form. something most midtable teams go through at one point or another the odd season

Funny enough probably most mid table clubs would sack their manager after a run of 6 defeats in PL 7 games and only 8 points since January.

There would at least be huge pressure on them from the media, something Dalglish gets to escape because of chums like Hansen and Redknapp that are afraid to even suggest that he should go.