Yes Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool are done. MOD POST #425 *ALL READ*

wonderfullife

happyman81 wrote: »

Looking at that, we haven't completed a cycle once, hence, football is not cyclical. As if Liverpool is destined to be great again. You can't be serious?

Don't think you read it right.....by saying i cant see liverpool being a force as a city for a decade, its meant to be read as in "within a decade, if ever" .....i cant personally see liverpool being the force they once were in the next 20 years.

i didnt want to go back that far but London dominated 1930s, Manchester 1950s/1960s liverpool 70s/80s, manchester 90s onwards, London 2000 onwards.

It tends to be cyclical.

Professional Griefer

firemansam4 wrote: »

A few posters on here talking about Liverpool not being a big club... use can say we haven't been a top club for a few years fair enough, but forget about all your stats of where Liverpool have finished the last few years and what cups have been won, the plain simple fact is that what defines a club as big would be far more the size of its fan base rather than how well they have done over the last few years.

Some fans also here talk about there hate towards Liverpool and its fans yet seem to always take a keen interest in posts about liverpool, Kinda mind bogling to me :rolleyes:

Well this is a discussion board, you don't have to love/not hate something to talk about it. If that was the case this place wouldn't be half as interesting.

firemansam4

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

Well this is a discussion board, you don't have to love/not hate something to talk about it. If that was the case this place wouldn't be half as interesting.

Yes this is a discussion board and within the rules you can say what you want, but my point is if use hate Liverpool so much why do use have such interest in us?? to some of use its almost an obsession!

Paul Tergat

wonderfullife wrote: »

Don't think you read it right.....by saying i cant see liverpool being a force as a city for a decade, its meant to be read as in "within a decade, if ever" .....i cant personally see liverpool being the force they once were in the next 20 years.

i didnt want to go back that far but London dominated 1930s, Manchester 1950s/1960s liverpool 70s/80s, manchester 90s onwards, London 2000 onwards.

It tends to be cyclical.

Looking so far ahead is pretty ****ing stupid really. See Man City situation

Phoenix Park

Leftist wrote: »

if by us you mean liverpool supporters then I am not surprised.

As Perch has twittered:
To all Liverpool fans giving me stick, what did Carroll do at the other end #AlwaysTheVictimsItsNeverYourFault

Did Perch really tweet that? I'm surprised, there are a lot of people associated with Liverpool who take that phrase very seriously.

Professional Griefer

firemansam4 wrote: »

Yes this is a discussion board and within the rules you can say what you want, but my point is if use hate Liverpool so much why do use have such interest in us?? to some of use its almost an obsession!

Well in this thread its cause the sacking of a manager of a top club is being discussed, it would be the same if it was Fergie, other fans would come in to say what they want. Its a interesting topic, and one which everyone will have a opinion on, if not just to get a rise out of Liverpool fans.

Other fans go into ye're superthread as well to post about the club, but in a decent manner.

firemansam4

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

Well in this thread its cause the sacking of a manager of a top club is being discussed, it would be the same if it was Fergie, other fans would come in to say what they want. Its a interesting topic, and one which everyone will have a opinion on, if not just to get a rise out of Liverpool fans.

Other fans go into ye're superthread as well to post about the club, but in a decent manner.

Strange ive never once bothered going into uniteds super thread :pac:

Jesus Wept

happyman81 wrote: »

Some quotes from Liverpool fans I have encountered over the years:

"Cisse is every bit as good as Henry (at his peak), only faster"

"Danny Murphy on his day is as good as Luis Figo"

"We deserved to win" (following a 3-0 loss to Chelsea)

and the classic...

"We will win the league next season"


Gotta love em.

Quotes from unknown unnamed unsubstantiated sources that you have met down the years that no one gives a bollox about, that's what we are down to at this stage?

You should be deeply embarrassed of your posts here. Even someone on the wind up should aspire to much much higher standard.

amiable

Phoenix Park wrote: »

Did Perch really tweet that? I'm surprised, there are a lot of people associated with Liverpool who take that phrase very seriously.

It's a fake account

Helix

firemansam4 wrote: »

A few posters on here talking about Liverpool not being a big club... use can say we haven't been a top club for a few years fair enough, but forget about all your stats of where Liverpool have finished the last few years and what cups have been won, the plain simple fact is that what defines a club as big would be far more the size of its fan base rather than how well they have done over the last few years.

Some fans also here talk about there hate towards Liverpool and its fans yet seem to always take a keen interest in posts about liverpool, Kinda mind bogling to me :rolleyes:

nobody on the planet cares about whether a club is "a big club" apart from that club's supporters

it's all about being a top club, as i said a few pages back. that's all that matters in the here and now. everything else is living on past glories that are ultimately irrelevant

Morricone

Leftist wrote: »

if by us you mean liverpool supporters then I am not surprised.

As Perch has twittered:
To all Liverpool fans giving me stick, what did Carroll do at the other end #AlwaysTheVictimsItsNeverYourFault

If the always the victims quote was a subtle reference to Hillsborough then he ought to be utterly ashamed of himself and sent away for a long while.

Helix

Morricone wrote: »

If the always the victims quote was a subtle reference to Hillsborough then he ought to be utterly ashamed of himself and sent away for a long while.

it's not a subtle reference to hillaborough, it's a blatant reference to liverpool's continual blaming of everyone else for everything

Mr Alan

Helix.

The expert on Liverpool fans.

Helix

Mr Alan wrote: »

Helix.

The expert on Liverpool fans.

^

see, now it's my fault

Mr Alan

Do you have the ability to read tubs?

Where did I say anything was your fault?

I just pointed out you've very strong opinions on all things Liverpool, it's something of a specialist subject of yours it seems.

Helix

Mr Alan wrote: »

Do you have the ability to read tubs?

Where did I say anything was your fault?

I just pointed out you've very strong opinions on all things Liverpool, it's something of a specialist subject.

i read very well, and you're about 3 years too late with the tubs bit

actually, that's the last time liverpool were relevant too isnt it

strong opinions indeed, next year is your year alan. keep the faith!

Morricone

Helix wrote: »

it's not a subtle reference to hillaborough, it's a blatant reference to liverpool's continual blaming of everyone else for everything

That exact reference has very strong links to Hillsborough. And when did Liverpool fans continually blame everyone else for everything?

Maybe they should adopt a scapegoat figure in a similar manner to the way in which you've decided that Martin O'Neill is the Devil incarnate himself.

Mr Alan

Helix wrote: »

actually, that's the last time liverpool were relevant too isnt it

Are you, an Aston Villa fan, giving Liverpool FC stick about being 'irrelevant'? Really?

You understand that if Villa were to emulate the season Liverpool are having (a horror season for us), itd be considered an excellent season for yous?

Helix wrote:

strong opinions indeed, next year is your year alan. keep the faith!

I don't believe next year is going our year, I don't believe any Liverpool fans do, that's something people like yourself who are genuinely obsessed with us have invented in an effort to justify just how pathetic your views on the club & it's fans are.

DDC1990

happyman81 wrote: »

Hmm. I'm the one playing cards here. Right...

Best to assume that Perch is a callous sociopath. It makes sense. After all, he got Reina sent off. Right? Right?

As has already been said, the account was a fake one so im not calling Perch anything.

Reina got himself sent off for moving he head in the direction of another player, Perch's reaction just drew the Refs attention, no complaints here.

What im saying is, be careful when using statements like that, due to the touchy nature of the subject. If you said anything like that in Liverpool where the majority of people know what the statement stands for, then ignorance wouldn't be much of an excuse.

EdenHazard

kenny as premiership football manager, great to see, he is an inspiration to all simpletons and chimps everywhere who thought their brain capacity would prevent them managing the premier league oh god im funnnny

amacachi

Mr Alan wrote: »

I don't believe next year is going our year, I don't believe any Liverpool fans do, that's something people like yourself who are genuinely obsessed with us have invented in an effort to justify just how pathetic your views on the club & it's fans are.

For once there's a bit of realism among Liverpool fans but just about any non-Liverpool fan can tell you it's a ridiculously common thing to come across and not invented. FFS last May I offered 4 Pool fans a tenner on who'd finish higher, Pool or Arsenal and they all bit my hand off. That was even before Arsenal lost 3 first-team players and at the end of a poor season for Liverpool.

DDC1990

EdenHazard wrote: »

The man has without doubt gone senile...he's not even that old....just outta touch.

Wasn't out of touch a few months ago when knocking United out of the Fa Cup.

or when beating Chelsea and City in the Carling Cup.

Its not the League, but its a start.

He has made some bad decisions over the season, as has every manager.

Thing is, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Spurs all have the squad and the players with Match Winning ability to cover for their managers mistakes.

City have been a great example of this the last few games.

They should have lost to Sunderland, but the sheer ability of their players helped them claw back 2 goals for a Draw.

Liverpool don't have the Silva's, the Balotellis etc to pull them out of the fire.

SlickRic

ok, posts deleted, bans and infractions handed out to some.

spirited debate is fine, but FFS, would people grow the fúck up. the mods aren't around for an evening or 2, and this place goes tits up.

quit the personal stuff.
quit the baiting.
quit the trolling.

this thread is being opened on a couple of conditions:

people must not troll; or personally abuse each other or Kenny Dalglish. the rules that you all signed up for when you joined boards are still in effect...*shock horror*

you can criticise the man.
you can say you hate him.

but calling fans or him chimps, idiots, morons, gobshítes, or whatever else comes into your head is not on, and will not be tolerated. it doesn't help discussion, and is, quite frankly, ridiculously childish.

everyone grow up, and we'll be fine.

sorry the original Kenny thread hadn't been re-opened as promised. busy weekend, as can happen in real life.

now, discuss away...

UrbanSea

Well written article here on Kennty http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0403/1224314297376.html?via=mr

counterlock

The latest I heard is that NESV have requested a report from Daglish et al on why the slump has happened and what they are doing to get out of it. Its a very business like approach but its strange that this would make it into the press...

Helix

Mr Alan wrote: »

Are you, an Aston Villa fan, giving Liverpool FC stick about being 'irrelevant'? Really?

You understand that if Villa were to emulate the season Liverpool are having (a horror season for us), itd be considered an excellent season for yous?

i am, and i dont see why the team i support actually effects my ability to call liverpool or any other irrelevant team irrelevant. nowhere did i compare villa to liverpool, nor did i say that villa were relevant. theyre even more irrelevant than liverpool, and have been for a long, long time

and no, emulating liverpool's season wouldn't be an excellent season for us at all, but im not sure what that's got to do with kenny and liverpool's continual decline

Xavi6

Saw this in The Guardian comments section, he really did an awful job at Newcastle :eek: -

Dalglish was last successful at Blackburn when he had an unfair advantage over most other clubs because of Jack Walker's money and the 3 foreigner rule. But for Man Utd losing Cantiona in the run in, he'd never have won the PL title with Blackburn. He was exceptionally lucky.

At Liverpool, he inherited a fantastic a set up and more money to strengthen than anyone else, including Man Utd. He simply bought the bestb available British-Irish players available (Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge, Houghton) and dominated the old First Division. I don't doubt Hillsbrough hurt him badly. But in his Liverpool management he enjoyed a fantastic advantage. When he stepped down, LFC were in a pooere position but his mate, Souness administered the fatal blows.

At Newcastle, Dalglish was an unmitigated disaster and bought very badly - Perez, Guivarc'h, Serrant, Hamilton, Charvet, Dabizas, Kelly, Keidel, Georgiados, Ketsbaia, Tomasson and he gave generous contracts to past-it mates like Barnes and Rush whilst at the same time dispensing with the services of Les Ferdinand, Lee Clark, Steve Watson and David Ginola. He took a Kevein Keegan side which needed some pragmatism added to it to really effectively challenge for honours and turned it into one that looked like relegation material in his first full season. Bizarrely, he gave his son, Paul, a professional contract. Paul Dalglish is one of the worst footballers I've ever seen at NUFC. And I've seen some terrible players. To be fair Dalglish signed Given, Hamann, Speed (terrible under him though) and Solano.

At Celtic in this weird Director of Football role, he appointed the hapless John Barnes and presided over one of the most depressing periods in Celtic's modern history.


I now believe Dalglish should be given more time and more money and those lovable Kopites they really are by staying loyal to "King Kenny" and singing YNWA like they mean it. They were down the stairs and downthe road with 15 mins left at SJP on Sunday. Less than a month after they'd won a cup.

_blank_

Temuri Ketsbaia was not a disaster, he was an absolute legend.

Paully D

Xavi6 wrote: »

Saw this in The Guardian comments section, he really did an awful job at Newcastle :eek: -

I thought he did a fantastic job at Newcastle and would love to see him back there.

Sgt Pepper 64

counterlock wrote: »

The latest I heard is that NESV have requested a report from Daglish et al on why the slump has happened and what they are doing to get out of it. Its a very business like approach but its strange that this would make it into the press...

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/shambolic-embarrassing-liverpool-are-in-deep-crisis-says-club-legend-john-aldridge-3069626.html

Should never have let Torres go

Flancrest

Paully D wrote: »

I thought he did a fantastic job at Newcastle and would love to see him back there.

Good one. LOL

K-9

Xavi6 wrote: »

Saw this in The Guardian comments section, he really did an awful job at Newcastle :eek: -

Well whatever about Newcastle that isn't true about Barnes, Aldridge and Houghton from what I remember. Barnes was seen as extremely talented but inconsistent and Aldridge and Houghton had done well in their first season with Oxford in the First Division, hardly sure things. Indeed, Beardsley was the player who took the longest to settle.

Left Liverpool in a poorer state, I'd very much doubt that opinion. The team needed a few changes, not the Souness dismantling. Indeed Souness showed that keeping a club at the top, even with big money, isn't as easy as that opinion would want to paint it.

Mr Alan

Helix wrote: »

and no, emulating liverpool's season wouldn't be an excellent season for us at all, but im not sure what that's got to do with kenny and liverpool's continual decline

Winning the Carling Cup, being in at least the semi final of the FA Cup, finishing between 6-10 in the league & getting back into the Europa League wouldn't be an excellent season for Villa?

And you mock Liverpool fans about being delusional and expecting too much from their club?

:pac: You couldn't make it up! :pac:

Morricone

Mr Alan wrote: »

Winning the Carling Cup, being in at least the semi final of the FA Cup, finishing between 6-10 in the league & getting back into the Europa League wouldn't be an excellent season for Villa?

And you mock Liverpool fans about being delusional and expecting too much from their club?

:pac: You couldn't make it up! :pac:

But Alan it was all Martin O'Neill's fault. Don't you get this?

Sgt Pepper 64

Mr Alan wrote: »

Winning the Carling Cup, being in at least the semi final of the FA Cup, finishing between 6-10 in the league & getting back into the Europa League wouldn't be an excellent season for Villa?

And you mock Liverpool fans about being delusional and expecting too much from their club?

:pac: You couldn't make it up! :pac:

Except that cost you 100 million. And Villa never have anything close to that

Morricone

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Except that cost you 100 million. And Villa never have anything close to that

No Kenny has spent about 30 million. Remember the lad we got ye to pay £50 million for. Well he payed for a lot of the transfers. Net investment comes to about £30 million.

You see unlike Chelsea, here at Liverpool Football Club we like to spend within our means, be fiscally prudent and not buy and sack our way to success.

maximoose

This net spend reasoning/excuse is getting seriously tedious.

counterlock

Morricone wrote: »

No Kenny has spent about 30 million. Remember the lad we got ye to pay £50 million for. Well he payed for a lot of the transfers. Net investment comes to about £30 million.

Not again. He spent 80 million, his 'net spend' is 30 million. His return on that 80 million spent has been extremely low

Morricone

counterlock wrote: »

Not again. He spent 80 million, his 'net spend' is 30 million. His return on that 80 million spent has been extremely low

Granted but the net investment is still only £30 million, not the 100 million that people blather on about.

Comapnies are judged on their net profit as opposed to their gross profit. Why shouldn't the inverse apply??

counterlock

Morricone wrote: »

Granted but the net investment is still only £30 million, not the 100 million that people blather on about.

Comapnies are judged on their net profit as opposed to their gross profit. Why shouldn't the inverse apply??

You can't look at it like that. It is judged on the results on the field. If you were determined to make money then all you have to do is sell your best assets, get relegated and try to bounce back up. Blackburn

If you judge teams on net profit Arsenal win the league 9 times out of 10. The 'net spend' is being used to justify your point and is only used to defend Kenny

daRobot

maximoose wrote: »

This net spend reasoning/excuse is getting seriously tedious.

I had a gaff, it was perfect apart from needing a lick of paint.

I sold it for 350k

I then bought a much bigger gaff.

It cost me 340k

But in my haste, and cash burning a hole in my pocket, I forgot to get a surveyor to help me asses the risk of what I was buying....

Turns out it needs 100k of work to put it right.

BUT IT'S OK!!

MY NET SPEND MEANS I'M 10K UP!!

Sgt Pepper 64

counterlock wrote: »

You can't look at it like that. It is judged on the results on the field. If you were determined to make money then all you have to do is sell your best assets, get relegated and try to bounce back up. Blackburn

If you judge teams on net profit Arsenal win the league 9 times out of 10. The 'net spend' is being used to justify your point and is only used to defend Kenny

Exactly! Chelsea gave Kenny 50 million and he spent it on Carroll on the basis of what? Through scouting? No, more likely one good season and flavour of the month. Should have kept\begged Torres to stay and paired him with Suarez and that is a common thought among pool fans

Leiva

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Exactly! Chelsea gave Kenny 50 million and he spent it on Carroll on the basis of what? Through scouting? No, more likely one good season and flavour of the month. Should have kept\begged Torres to stay and paired him with Suarez and that is a common thought among pool fans

Cant argue with that but i would say there is lots of Chelsea fans that would have liked that to be the outcome aswell .. you included hey ?

Sgt Pepper 64

mixednuts wrote: »

Cant argue with that but i would say there is lots of Chelsea fans that would have liked that to be the outcome aswell .. you included hey ?

Oh yes! We both fecked each other alright!

Leiva

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Oh yes! We both fecked each other alright!

Only folk to benefit from that transaction was every other team around both Liverpool and Chelsea .

K-9

counterlock wrote: »

Not again. He spent 80 million, his 'net spend' is 30 million. His return on that 80 million spent has been extremely low

Spent about £35 Million I think. Torres and Babel more or less cancel out Carroll and Suarez. Basically spent the Summers signings less Meireles and some small fees.

Obviously the club is being totally restructured, lots of deadwood out and even Cole and Aquilani are still on the books, but for that money we should be putting in a decent challenge for 4th. The fear would be that we may have spent £70 Million on more deadwood!

Fuhrer

K-9 wrote: »

Obviously the club is being totally restructured, lots of deadwood out and even Cole and Aquilani are still on the books, but for that money we should be putting in a decent challenge for 4th. The fear would be that we may have spent £70 Million on more deadwood!

Lots more deadwood in, it would seem.

Sgt Pepper 64

mixednuts wrote: »

Only folk to benefit from that transaction was every other team around both Liverpool and Chelsea .

Yep I've said it before , but we need to agree not to do any transfer dealings with each other

Us
Merieles, What a faker - cant pass or tackle, sometimes gets a long shot on target
Benya (who was ok when not crocked which he frequently is, but then shipped out to arsenal despite being very good in pre -season
Torres obviously (no - he's not back!)

You
Joe Cole (he's not the messiah!)


I think youve done better out of kind Uncle Roman!

counterlock

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Benya (who was ok when not crocked which he frequently is, but then shipped out to arsenal despite being very good in pre -season

That goal he got in pre-season was amazing. I was pretty surprised to see him sent to Arsenal.

Merieles seems to be a different story, he was arguably the best player under hodgson last year, looks half the guy he was

#15

Morricone wrote: »

Granted but the net investment is still only £30 million, not the 100 million that people blather on about.

'Net spend' is an answer to a question about relative investment in each club.
So yeah, LFC have had less to spend than some other clubs, in net terms.

But that's not relevant to the discussion.

£100 million was generated through sales and investment, and subsequently spent on incoming players. People are saying that the players brought in for that £100 million were substandard.

Having a low net spend is not a defence for poor signings.

If anything, it makes it almost essential to get those signings right in the first place.