Brolly on a funny kind of Irishness? - Free State Unionists

slapbangwallop

A northern friend said to me this morning that northern Unionists' partitionism is one thing, but southern partitionism is so odious, so distasteful, begrudging, irrational, lacking in depth or historical validity, so petty, spiteful, smug, lame, so anti-human that it stings his nose with it's repugnance.

Has he got a point or just another moaning Nordie?

http://www.derryjournal.com/community/columnists/brolly-s-bites-north-men-south-men-comrades-all-my-arse-1-3674549#.T3i4yHibTlY.facebook

AeoNGriM

Dey tuk ar six counties!!!!!

forfuxsake

AeoNGriM wrote: »

Dey tuk ar six counties!!!!!

So what will we do? fight and win them back?
No, we'll never win, pretend they're welcome to them.:eek:

They have a silly accent.

Their argument is invalid.

Skid

slapbangwallop wrote: »

A northern friend said to me this morning that northern Unionists' partitionism is one thing, but southern partitionism is so odious, so distasteful, begrudging, irrational, lacking in depth or historical validity, so petty, spiteful, smug, lame, so anti-human that it stings his nose with it's repugnance.

Has he got a point or just another moaning Nordie?

http://www.derryjournal.com/community/columnists/brolly-s-bites-north-men-south-men-comrades-all-my-arse-1-3674549#.T3i4yHibTlY.facebook

He should look in the mirror - the reason many people in the Republic have no interest in a United Ireland is because the prospect of dealing with judgemental, backward thinking, self-obsessed drones like himself is not an appealing one.

dr.bollocko

Strikes me he's looking for a fight.

benway

An ex's ould lad is a southern orange man, tbh he was grand, but politics was studiously avoided as a topic of conversation.

I think Brolly is more talking about Free Staters, a certain breed of respectable blueshirt who finds the whole northern question to be distasteful at best, and would rather brush the whole thing under the carpet ... he's definitely got a point there, imho.

Granted, it's not like our nordie brethren don't have a chip on their shoulders about it or anything. Then again, I don't really blame them.

mikemac1

Is the GAA in Ulster run by lawyers?

Crying racism over a bit of abuse and starting discrimination proceedings to get more funding

Has he got a point or just another moaning Nordie?

Both realy.
A more toned down article would have gotten the points across

Born to Die

Is this Joe Brolly that is on the Sunday Game chewing his tongue during the Summer?

Phill Ewinn

Members of the Orange cult me thinks........

Dyr

Never attribute to patitionism that which you can attribute to just winding up nordies...mainly because its so easy.

forfuxsake

Bambi wrote: »

Never attribute to patitionism that which you can attribute to just winding up nordies...mainly because its so easy.

Patitionism - because of st patrick? I likes it

AngryBollix

Nice to see his bullsh1t extends to subjects beyond gaelic football

xflyer

I don't find it surprising that the GAA figures largely in this situation and that's exactly where the blame lies. The whole ethos of the GAA is supporting my team, my village, my town, my county. Abusive comments and brawls on and off the pitch are commonplace. The whole disciplinary issue in the GAA is the subject of constant debate.

So naturally any opportunity is taken to needle people is taken. One of the best ways is to have a go at any insecurities they have. Calling them Brit B*****ds or Orangemen will absolutely infuriate them given their history.

In the article he says

Culturally, we are no doubt slightly different. In a way, northern Gaels are more ferocious about our Irishness because we had to fight harder for it.

Which I presume in his eyes maked him more Irish than us southern softies.

The racist suggestions are ridiculous. We're the same people. How can you be racist against your own race?

His mistake is to take an attitude within the GAA and extrapolate it to the wider community. Well it doesn't happen in other sports and in general most people 'down south' see the Northerners simply as Irish, even the Unionists (whether they like it or not).

The real problem is the GAA and their unwillingness or inability to deal with disciplinary issues within the organisation.

Personally I detest the GAA because because they've had a detrimental effect on sport in general in this country and also because they encourage parochialism rather than nationalism. People are often more proud of being from Kerry or Cork than being Irish. I would think that this is where much of the problem lies. The Northerners see themselves as Irish first and foremost because "we had to fight harder for it". The Laois guy is a Laoisman first and Irish a distant second.

That's your problem.

forfuxsake

xflyer wrote: »

I don't find it surprising that the GAA figures largely in this situation and that's exactly where the blame lies. The whole ethos of the GAA is supporting my team, my village, my town, my county. Abusive comments and brawls on and off the pitch are commonplace. The whole disciplinary issue in the GAA is the subject of constant debate.

So naturally any opportunity is taken to needle people is taken. One of the best ways is to have a go at any insecurities they have. Calling them Brit B*****ds or Orangemen will absolutely infuriate them given their history.

In the article he says Which I presume in his eyes maked him more Irish than us southern softies.

The racist suggestions are ridiculous. We're the same people. How can you be racist against your own race?

His mistake is to take an attitude within the GAA and extrapolate it to the wider community. Well it doesn't happen in other sports and in general most people 'down south' see the Northerners simply as Irish, even the Unionists (whether they like it or not).

The real problem is the GAA and their unwillingness or inability to deal with disciplinary issues within the organisation.

Personally I detest the GAA because because they've had a detrimental effect on sport in general in this country and also because they encourage parochialism rather than nationalism. People are often more proud of being from Kerry or Cork than being Irish. I would think that this is where much of the problem lies. The Northerners see themselves as Irish first and foremost because "we had to fight harder for it". The Laois guy is a Laoisman first and Irish a distant second.

That's your problem.

I find it absurd that loyalty to a county,in essence a British administrative division, is taken so seriously.

Dyr

xflyer wrote: »

The Northerners see themselves as Irish first and foremost because "we had to fight harder for it".

They didn't fight harder though? And never got the result

xflyer

forfuxsake wrote: »

I find it absurd that loyalty to a county,in essence a British administrative division, is taken so seriously.

So do I, as a Dubliner. I could care less is someone has a go at me for being from Dublin. Do the same for my Irishness and I lose it.

But really it's tribalism, a throwback to the times when people here were loyal to their local chief or king and were constantly fighting each. It took the English, ironically, to unite us as Irish. They didn't finish the job though. Another reason to complain about their administration.:rolleyes:

guitarzero

It's interesting the superiority mind set people have the further down the republic you go. "Them nordies" followed by rolling eyes and smug chuckling. Easy to wind up, they're different to us, they're not Irish, etc etc this my personal experience.

What's also interesting is that these people have only spent a weekend at best up north. A friend of mine had actually said "they're very different to us". I asked him who are "they" what do you define as "us"? It's so riddled with small minded nonsense and contradiction, as one of the posters mentioned above, "its pretty backward".

The_Kew_Tour

lol if he thinks that "All Ulster counties" shout for each other.

They do in their ass. I remember when Cork played Down in AI in 2010 and every bloody person from Ulster was shouting for Cork bar of course Down people.

Jimoslimos

forfuxsake wrote: »

I find it absurd that loyalty to a county,in essence a British administrative division, is taken so seriously.

This is very true

xflyer wrote: »

Personally I detest the GAA because because they've had a detrimental effect on sport in general in this country

What do you mean "detrimental effect"?

xflyer wrote: »

and also because they encourage parochialism rather than nationalism. People are often more proud of being from Kerry or Cork than being Irish. I would think that this is where much of the problem lies. The Northerners see themselves as Irish first and foremost because "we had to fight harder for it". The Laois guy is a Laoisman first and Irish a distant second.

That's your problem.

Not making much sense. Parochialism isn't unique to the GAA or even Ireland. There's plenty of Liverpool/Man Utd fans who would prefer their team win the league over the national side doing well. In fact most people in the North of England have a stronger sense of identity linked to their local area rather than any nationalistic English/British pride.

But any excuse for a general GAA bashing thread.......

johngalway

Skid wrote: »

He should look in the mirror - the reason many people in the Republic have no interest in a United Ireland is because the prospect of dealing with judgemental, backward thinking, self-obsessed drones like himself is not an appealing one.

+1.

Show Time

As a proud Corkman i could not possibly take serious Joe Brolly on any matter he writes about.

Iwasfrozen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

They do in their ass. I remember when Cork played Down in AI in 2010 and every bloody person from Ulster was shouting for Cork bar of course Down people.

Nope. I was shouting for Down. Even put twenty euro on them.

El Siglo

I can see what he means from reading that. I've been living in Belfast nearly two years now and you always get the story of the southerner giving stick to the northerner over not being Irish etc...

I wouldn't have much love for my county as I've lived in a couple of them and they're all the same except the accent changes. Nationality on the other hand is much more serious and I would get pretty angry if someone lambasted me over my nationality. Having a bit of banter is one thing, downright abuse is a completely different situation.

El Siglo

Skid wrote: »

He should look in the mirror - the reason many people in the Republic have no interest in a United Ireland is because the prospect of dealing with judgemental, backward thinking, self-obsessed drones like himself is not an appealing one.

I suppose versions of that type of individual don't exist down south, like; Pat Spillane, George Hook or Eamon Dunphy?

xflyer

Jimoslimos wrote: »

What do you mean "detrimental effect"?

Well there was the famous ban on foreign games. While that's gone. It had it's effect particularly away from the bigger towns and cities. This made sure that sports minded kids were funneled into GAA and that remains the case. Our record in international sports is poor compared to countries of comparable. If the local GAA club expanded it's activities to include other sports like athletics or whatever. That could improve. Whatever you think of GAA sports they don't travel well and there is little scope for even the best GAA player to move onto the international stage.

Parochialism isn't unique to the GAA or even Ireland. There's plenty of Liverpool/Man Utd fans who would prefer their team win the league over the national side doing well. In fact most people in the North of England have a stronger sense of identity linked to their local area rather than any nationalistic English/British pride.

Other people's parochialism is no excuse for ours. In any case there is much less county pride in England than here. It being more regional. Even that would be better for us.

Doc Ruby

xflyer wrote: »

Our record in international sports is poor compared to countries of comparable.

If you mean international football, maybe it is and who cares. In international sports I'm not aware of any particular shortcomings.

Jimoslimos

xflyer wrote: »

Well there was the famous ban on foreign games. While that's gone. It had it's effect particularly away from the bigger towns and cities. This made sure that sports minded kids were funneled into GAA and that remains the case. Our record in international sports is poor compared to countries of comparable.

Oh the ban was close-minded alright but it's gone now. Anyway again it's not a unique trait for a sporting organisation to try maximise playing numbers.

Our record is poor not because of the GAA, it's because we are a tiny country (population-wise) without the physical attributes for most pure athletic disciplines - speed (Afro-Caribbeans), endurance (East-Africans) or strength (Eastern Europeans).

Also, is a measure of a sport's worth whether it is played internationally or not? Plenty of Aussies play Aussie Rules or Rugby League - doesn't seem to affect their nation's standing in international sport.

Feeona

slapbangwallop wrote: »

but southern partitionism is so odious, so distasteful, begrudging, irrational, lacking in depth or historical validity, so petty, spiteful, smug, lame, so anti-human that it stings his nose with it's repugnance.

Are you sure that's what he said?

benway

Domo230 wrote: »

They take Irish culture (the language and things like sean nos etc ..) very seriously up there.

They certainly do, was at a pipe recital off the Ormeau Road a couple of weekends back, there's definitely an edge of pride and seriousness to it that I haven't seen at equivalent events down Mexico way.

On the other hand, there's a strain of southern opinion that regards these same cultural signifiers - trad, gaeilge, "gah" - as something to be ashamed of, backwards, tribalistic, incompatible with the modern world.

Two things going on, I think - we all know Brolly's a wind-up merchant of the highest order, and the "racism" point is pretty ridiculous. But, by the same token, there is a real issue here.

Dudess

Well I don't think you're necessarily a unionist if you feel a united Ireland is unachievable. It doesn't mean you wouldn't like a united Ireland, you just can't see it happening.

Eoghan Harris/CCOB types are nauseating though - and others who ridicule non violent republicanism and bow before rigid unionism.

Doc Ruby

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Our record is poor not because of the GAA, it's because we are a tiny country (population-wise) without the physical attributes for most pure athletic disciplines - speed (Afro-Caribbeans), endurance (East-Africans) or strength steroids (Eastern Europeans).

FYP. Also Katie Taylor would like a word.

Feisar

xflyer wrote: »

I don't find it surprising that the GAA figures largely in this situation and that's exactly where the blame lies. The whole ethos of the GAA is supporting my team, my village, my town, my county. Abusive comments and brawls on and off the pitch are commonplace. The whole disciplinary issue in the GAA is the subject of constant debate.

So naturally any opportunity is taken to needle people is taken. One of the best ways is to have a go at any insecurities they have. Calling them Brit B*****ds or Orangemen will absolutely infuriate them given their history.

In the article he says Which I presume in his eyes maked him more Irish than us southern softies.

The racist suggestions are ridiculous. We're the same people. How can you be racist against your own race?

His mistake is to take an attitude within the GAA and extrapolate it to the wider community. Well it doesn't happen in other sports and in general most people 'down south' see the Northerners simply as Irish, even the Unionists (whether they like it or not).

The real problem is the GAA and their unwillingness or inability to deal with disciplinary issues within the organisation.

Personally I detest the GAA because because they've had a detrimental effect on sport in general in this country and also because they encourage parochialism rather than nationalism. People are often more proud of being from Kerry or Cork than being Irish. I would think that this is where much of the problem lies. The Northerners see themselves as Irish first and foremost because "we had to fight harder for it". The Laois guy is a Laoisman first and Irish a distant second.

That's your problem.

I agree but I don't think it's the GAA. we've always been tribal. It's us that makes the GAA tribal, not the other way around. And I mean "us" in a general sense, I detest the GAA and its associated arseholes.

c_man

Brolly with a chip on his shoulder SHOCKER!

KeithAFC

guitarzero wrote: »

It's interesting the superiority mind set people have the further down the republic you go. "Them nordies" followed by rolling eyes and smug chuckling. Easy to wind up, they're different to us, they're not Irish, etc etc this my personal experience.

What's also interesting is that these people have only spent a weekend at best up north. A friend of mine had actually said "they're very different to us". I asked him who are "they" what do you define as "us"? It's so riddled with small minded nonsense and contradiction, as one of the posters mentioned above, "its pretty backward".

He is right. Ulster people in Northern Ireland are very different.

Chuck Stone

Skid wrote: »

the reason many people in the Republic have no interest in a United Ireland is because the prospect of dealing with judgemental, backward thinking, self-obsessed drones like himself is not an appealing one.

You seem to be quite adept at the judgemental droning yourself.

---

I remember being called a 'British <whatever>' in school as a slagging thing. The people who used to do it were total droolers though and had a very unsophisticated understanding of everything outside where they came from. These would generally be the same type of people who would believe that Cork is the best city in the world and 'sure why would ya want to leave it'?

Even the word 'nordie' is bandied about as some sort of descriptor but is little more than a caricature of a person from the north. The 'nordie' caricature that has been created in the minds of the intellectually lazy by the establishment media in the south.

purplepanda

Why does the whole nation have to be all the exact same in outlook & attitude? There are slightly different histories & cultures in regions & provinces in most world nations?

You only have to look across the sea at England, Geordies & Cockneys, Cornish & Brummies, Cornish & Yorkshire.

Ireland is not much different IMO! Go across the Island from one side to another & there are many changes along the way as you travel.:cool:

forfuxsake

purplepanda wrote: »

Why does the whole nation have to be all the exact same in outlook & attitude? There are slightly different histories & cultures in regions & provinces in most world nations?

You only have to look across the sea at England, Geordies & Cockneys, Cornish & Brummies, Cornish & Yorkshire.

Ireland is not much different IMO! Go across the Island from one side to another & there are many changes along the way as you travel.:cool:

Mancs and scousers, 27 miles apart.

Chuck Stone

purplepanda wrote: »

Why does the whole nation have to be all the exact same in outlook & attitude? There are slightly different histories & cultures in regions & provinces in most world nations?

Yes but generalising and stereotyping in a matter-of-fact way is just stupid - it's can be funny when it is understood to be a joke.

Take for example Harry Enfield's 'scousers' or 'cockneys' caricatures of Liverpudlians and Londoners - it is obviously a joke and meant to be.

steelcityblues

Brolly has a point.

The Laois players involved obviously like being part of a 32 county sporting organisation, yet see the Armagh lads as something 'different' and 'inferior', not on a regional level, but something worse.

John Doe1

Edz87 wrote: »

They have a silly accent.

Their argument is invalid.

Racism:p

xflyer

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Our record is poor not because of the GAA, it's because we are a tiny country (population-wise) without the physical attributes for most pure athletic disciplines - speed (Afro-Caribbeans), endurance (East-Africans) or strength (Eastern Europeans).

But we're under achieve even in other sports not dominated by these countries.

Also, is a measure of a sport's worth whether it is played internationally or not? Plenty of Aussies play Aussie Rules or Rugby League - doesn't seem to affect their nation's standing in international sport.

That actually proves my point, the Aussie rules people didn't attempt to eradicate cricket, soccer and all the other 'garrison games' as did the GAA.

My point isn't whether GAA is a good game or not. But it has had a detrimental effect on the playing of other sports and it feeds off the innate tribalism of Irish people. I don't think that's a positive thing.

steelcityblues

xflyer wrote: »

My point isn't whether GAA is a good game or not. But it has had a detrimental effect on the playing of other sports and it feeds off the innate tribalism of Irish people. I don't think that's a positive thing.

You do not think all team sports have a level of tribalism? In places like Glasgow or Manchester, you can be in for a beating if you wear the 'wrong' colours in a certain part of the city. Limiting it to the GAA is dishonest.

WesternZulu

xflyer wrote: »

But we're under achieve even in other sports not dominated by these countries.

That actually proves my point, the Aussie rules people didn't attempt to eradicate cricket, soccer and all the other 'garrison games' as did the GAA.

Maybe if other sports had put half as much effort and money into their own sports at a local level as the GAA has done throughout the years, we would be more successful at an international level.

xflyer wrote: »

My point isn't whether GAA is a good game or not. But it has had a detrimental effect on the playing of other sports and it feeds off the innate tribalism of Irish people. I don't think that's a positive thing.

Every sport feeds off tribalism, wait till the summer when the whole country gets behind the soccer team for the European Championships. Same difference.

benway

xflyer wrote: »

That actually proves my point, the Aussie rules people didn't attempt to eradicate cricket, soccer and all the other 'garrison games' as did the GAA.

Well, seeing as cultural imperialism was going the other way for so long, I don't blame them for being a bit protective, plus the ban has been gone quite a while now.

If anything, we probably punch a little above our weight on the international scene, imho.

The rugby team are certainly doing alright, give or take a slightly disappointing World Cup and Six Nations ... only disappointing because we were in with a not unrealistic shout of winning both.

Then again, the IRFU went to the trouble of nurturing the sport at grass-roots level, encouraging school-kids around the country to get involved and to develop their skills ...

xflyer

steelcityblues wrote: »

You do not think all team sports have a level of tribalism? In places like Glasgow or Manchester, you can be in for a beating if you wear the 'wrong' colours in a certain part of the city. Limiting it to the GAA is dishonest.

We're not talking about England or Scotland. We're talking about Ireland.

WesternZulu

Actually a lot of the rugby lads have played Gaelic Football, some at a very decent level (Rob Carney, Tommy Bowe, Shane Horgan).

If anything it helped them in their respective sports as opposed to hindering their development.

xflyer

WesternZulu wrote: »

Maybe if other sports had put half as much effort and money into their own sports at a local level as the GAA has done throughout the years, we would be more successful at an international level.

That's the standard excuse and it ignores the history of the ban which froze out anything other GAA, particularly in rural counties. While it's gone now, it's effect is still evident.

Every sport feeds off tribalism, wait till the summer when the whole country gets behind the soccer team for the European Championships. Same difference.

The whole country including the North will be behind the Irish team, that's nationalism. The Irish soccer team is a classic example of the effect of the dominance of GAA. That's why they often have to resort to players born in Britain. There is a much smaller pool of soccer players to choose from once you move away from the Dublin, Cork and other big towns with a tradition of playing soccer. I wonder how many members of the Irish team have come from GAA strongholds like Kerry, Tipperary, Kilkenny over the years?

benway

WesternZulu wrote: »

Actually a lot of the rugby lads have played Gaelic Football, some at a very decent level (Rob Carney, Tommy Bowe, Shane Horgan).

If anything it helped them in their respective sports as opposed to hindering their development.

Rugby in the winter, football in the summer was always the way when I was growing up.

To bring it back on topic, the Laois thing is a very unwelcome development to my way of thinking, but this even more so:

A few days later, petrol was poured on the Dromid fire by the request from Dr Crokes’ Killarney chairman Vincent Casey that their supporters be segregated from Crossmaglen’s for their recent All-Ireland club semi-final. Casey had other demands: “We are also looking for an increased number of stewards at the venue and a bigger Garda presence than last Sunday.” He seemed to think that Crossmaglen’s supporters would be arriving sporting black berets, dark glasses and AK47s. It was of course nonsensical, but again, it illustrated a certain mindset.

One of the things I've always admired about GAA matches is the way that opposing supporters will sit alongside each other and have a bit of banter, but no real malice to it. I have never perceived a need for segregation, certainly there were no problems at Crossmaglen v Garrycastle. Apart from the result.

Stark contrast to the football factory wannabe casuals you get at League of Ireland games ... if that league hasn't folded?

ceegee

Didnt Brolly have that exact article in the Mail on Sunday last week?? They really are behind the times up North.

All this talk of the Laois player being racist or believing Northern people are inferior is rubbish. If you were looking to windup a GAA head from the north whats the most obvious choice?

c_man

xflyer wrote: »

While it's gone now, it's effect is still evident.

Really? Over four decades and it still has an effect? How? I suggest naming the areas of the country that are only represented by a GAA football or hurling club and no other sports. Should be a fairly handy task if what you've said is in any way accurate.

The whole country including the North will be behind the Irish team

No they won't...