Noonan Clears The Way for Bankers Bonuses

TwoShedsJackson

PogMoThoin wrote: »

I'm voting SF in the next election, not because I agree with their policies, I don't, but because they're the only party I can see that have the balls to stand up and say "Enough!!".

And that's because it's easy to stand up and say what you like when you're in Opposition. See what they do if they ever do get into power.

Born to Die

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

And that's because it's easy to stand up and say what you like when you're in Opposition. See what they do if they ever do get into power.

Fine Gael or Labour were very quiet while in opposition as FF plundered the country.

Zebra3

Born to Die wrote: »

Fine Gael or Labour were very quiet while in opposition as FF plundered the country.

Yep, as Bertie doubled TDs salaries and gave them generous bonuses, he wasn't just buying the silence of his own TDs. :mad:

ArmaniJeanss

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

And that's because it's easy to stand up and say what you like when you're in Opposition. See what they do if they ever do get into power.

I actually hope SF get enough seats in the next election (or the one after) that it becomes impossible to form a government without them.

At the moment they are the childless aunty explaining to their siblings about how parenthood is remarkably easy if they just did things the correct way.

Having a party with large support who have never been in government is not good for the democratic system long term.

2ndcoming

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Say a banker working in one of our majority owned banks had the ability to recover €2 million for that bank in doing his job. Do you think he should be incentivised or the tax payer would rather see that €2 million go up in smoke?

Those banks are in all reality now extensions of the public service. Publicly owned, publicly funded but in service to European masters.

If a tax official investigated and prosecuted a case of tax evasion that recouped €2m for the Dept. of Finance, would you call for them to get a €250k bonus? A pay cut would be more likely...

Barely Hedged

shedweller wrote: »

Nice try.

Bank does NOT equal taxpayer. Never have and never will.

I refer you to the past 4 years as evidence

Born to Die

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I actually hope SF get enough seats in the next election (or the one after) that it becomes impossible to form a government without them.

At the moment they are the childless aunty explaining to their siblings about how parenthood is remarkably easy if they just did things the correct way.

Having a party with large support who have never been in government is not good for the democratic system long term.

I think what Sinn Fein, for all their percieved faults, are doing is showing that they see the people of this country as people and not as commodities like FG, FF and now Labour.

2ndcoming

humanji wrote: »

That's what a lot of people thought about FG.

Well anyone who thought that are gullible beyond redemption and it wouldn't surprise me if they go so far as to bouncing back to FF in the next election, so limited is their understanding of the gross realities of the two political powerhouses in this country.

Born to Die

Barely Hedged wrote: »

I refer you to the past 4 years as evidence

You are an example of what is wrong with this country, people trying to defend what is clearly only beneficial to the minority at the expense of the majority.

dsmythy

Freddie59 wrote: »

For fcuk's sake. Can this get any more surreal and ridiculous? Last week we had yer man in Anglo being paid €823k a year. Now this. And they want people to pay a "household charge" while this fiasco rages. As someone else recently posted FG/FF are no different. Same wine - different bottle.:mad:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/michael-noonan-clears-way-for-bank-bosses-to-get-bonuses-3068637.html

FINANCE Minister Michael Noonan has cleared the way for bailed-out banks to begin paying bonuses to their top executives as early as next year.

All state-supported banks were banned from paying bonuses soon after they were rescued.

But new rules on how the Government oversees state- supported banks pave the way for "incentive arrangements" at AIB, Permanent TSB and Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, formerly Anglo.

The rules stress that all the "incentives" have to be "closely related" to the performance of executives and must be linked to the achievement of the banks' business plans.

Previously, all incentive payments were explicitly banned. This ban could stay in place until mid-2013, under the terms of last year's bank recapitalisations, sources said.

But the latest document establishes, at least in principle, that bailed-out banks can pay bonuses to their directors and senior executives while the banks are still dependent on the State.

Rabbling over, none of the current board of AIB or the bank formerly known as Anglo, were on the board prior to 2009. In Bank of Ireland's case two of the board were, though the State doesn't completely own it so it doesn't matter. So these guys will be paid bonuses if they successfully fix the mess left by others in the lead up to 2008/09.

Chucky the tree

Born to Die wrote: »

I think what Sinn Fein, for all their percieved faults, are doing is showing that they see the people of this country as people and not as commodities like FG, FF and now Labour.

Yea, people whos taxes will pay for their ink cartridges.

humanji

2ndcoming wrote: »

Well anyone who thought that are gullible beyond redemption and it wouldn't surprise me if they go so far as to bouncing back to FF in the next election, so limited is their understanding of the gross realities of the two political powerhouses in this country.

With such disdain for voters, you should be in politics.

But yeah, they've no one to blame but themselves. I doubt SF could be any better. Though, as mentioned above, a coalition with them might shake things up.

Born to Die

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Yea, people whos taxes will pay for their ink cartridges.

And along came the inevitable.

As will your taxes pay the bonuses of these bankers.

Barely Hedged

Born to Die wrote: »

You are an example of what is wrong with this country, people trying to defend what is clearly only beneficial to the minority at the expense of the majority.

This coming from a man who believes what SF shovel at him. You'd want to take a step back and actually find out a bit of detail about what's wrong with the country before you lecture me when I talk about practicalities and what happens in the real world. Not this hypotetical world SF have created where somebody else is responsible for all our bad actions and somebody else must pay for our mistakes.

mikom

mac_iomhair wrote: »

ireland needs a new political party which represents the people and not the bankers, but at the same time isn't full of "save the whales" types!!

Paging Biggins........ Biggins to reception please......

lugha

Born to Die wrote: »

I think what Sinn Fein, for all their percieved faults, are doing is showing that they see the people of this country as people and not as commodities like FG, FF and now Labour.

Sinn Fein are doing what only a party can do in opposition, which is talk some mighty fine talk. There is a long history of such parties in this country who impressed the people no end when they too were in opposition.

You simply cannot judge them in any meaningful way until they are in power. The best you can do is look at their policies and to many of us, we are not very unimpressed.

Chucky the tree

Born to Die wrote: »

And along came the inevitable.

As will your taxes pay the bonuses of these bankers.

If these bankers are making money or improving the state of the banks then thats perfectly fine by me. Rather my taxes go towards that then some lad printing ink/or possibly selling it for his own gain.

hondasam

starbelgrade wrote: »

Whatever about dishonesty & incompetance, I'm not sure you could accuse them of corruption, in all fairness.

Give them time it will happen. The thing with FG is they knew how unhappy the voters were with FF and promised to change things, knowing full well they cannot do anything. We have the lesser of two evils at the moment.

Barely Hedged

shedweller wrote: »

Those performance / bonus thingys. Where do i get one of those.
The place i work for has its profits rising but i don't see any wage increase. Why? I don't work in a financial institution, that's why.

As I said, it's not just the banking sector that has bonuses and incentivised pay schemes. Time to remove the blinkers

Born to Die

lugha wrote: »

Sinn Fein are doing what only a party can do in opposition, which is talk some mighty fine talk. There is a long history of such parties in this country who impressed the people no end when they too were in opposition.

You simply cannot judge them in any meaningful way until they are in power. The best you can do is look at their policies and to many of us, we are not very unimpressed.

I am not advocating the SF way of doing things, I commented that they seem to be the only party that are talking about the people. Yes they have faults and they can only be judged if actually in Government. I hate the term "power" because I think what we elect actually do believe that once in Governmemt they have been handed the "power" to do as they please unabated.

Just so you know I voted Labour in the last election, I won't make that mistake again, my representative has fallen down a hole somewhere as he tows the FG/Lab line. Useless.

Anyway time for a walk.

ScumLord

Independents, they promise to fix the road/bring basic amenity and then they fix the road/basic amenity.

Barely Hedged

mac_iomhair wrote: »

Because we are bailing them out! We are paying their bonus. While we try and scrape enough money together to put petrol in the car(if you havn't had to sell it yet) these guys are out buying new BMW's.

The vast majority of people in banks did not make the decisions that were taken at board level. An example is BoI took 100 years to build up their balance sheet to 2004 levels and then doubled it in 4 years up to 2008. Tell me how much the ordinary bank worker was responsible for that?

There is a lot of people working in the banks that can recover money out of this mess for the benefit of the tax payer and to hold onto them and not lose them to places like London requires incentivisation. You might not like it but thats reality.

What you're suggesting is penny smart, pound foolish

MonkeyTennis

Well our profits are up 10 percent this quarter but if you take out 'the taxpayer saving our balls' coefficient Id be talking to you from the train tracks drinking a naggin of cider and presenting to a f***ing tree ....so lets leave the bonuses for this year eh lads?

2ndcoming

lugha wrote: »

Sinn Fein are doing what only a party can do in opposition, which is talk some mighty fine talk. There is a long history of such parties in this country who impressed the people no end when they too were in opposition.

You simply cannot judge them in any meaningful way until they are in power. The best you can do is look at their policies and to many of us, we are not very unimpressed.

In fairness, Enda and Fine Gael were so poor even in opposition that it took the country being on the verge of ruin for them to get in and even then, they very nearly imploded on the eve of that happening.

The Shinners have some fearsome, intelligent young politicians in their ranks, but their economic policies need someone to reign them in from a more centrist point of view, and if Gilmore and co hadn't seen their names in lights at the first chance of a sniff of power and refused to form a coalition with FG, they would have been the majority party in the next election with the Shinners under their wing so to speak if they had played their cards right, now I doubt they could win a game of pool in a quadriplegic club.

funnilenough

i like listening to Michael Noonanns' soft rasping voice.I could listen to it all nite,so i could.one of those audio books ,about the Titanic or something.

ahh.

thecommietommy

Freddie59 wrote: »

For fcuk's sake. Can this get any more surreal and ridiculous? Last week we had yer man in Anglo being paid €823k a year. Now this. And they want people to pay a "household charge" while this fiasco rages. As someone else recently posted FG/FF are no different. Same wine - different bottle.:mad:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/michael-noonan-clears-way-for-bank-bosses-to-get-bonuses-3068637.html

FG/Labour and FF, two cheeks of the one ar$e :mad: :mad:

Barely Hedged

thecommietommy wrote: »

FG/Labour and FF, two cheeks of the one ar$e :mad: :mad:

I'd like to know what you're expectations were for a government that came in when spending is about €15bn more than receipts?

Lower taxes, pump more money into the health system etc etc

Bullseye1

We are on the road to recovery boys. Don't worry about the ailing domestic and retail economy the exports are flowing out the door.

lugha

2ndcoming wrote: »

In fairness, Enda and Fine Gael were so poor even in opposition that it took the country being on the verge of ruin for them to get in and even then, they very nearly imploded on the eve of that happening.

Enda Kenny was being judged on his personality and appearance and charisma and other assorted X-factor type sh*te. It wasn’t possible to seriously judge him on traits that matter. And how does returning their largest number of TDs even equate to “nearly imploding”?

2ndcoming wrote: »

The Shinners have some fearsome, intelligent young politicians in their ranks ..

Ah, a familiar refrain. The same was said about the greens 10 years ago, labour and the Spring tide 20 years ago and even the PDs almost 30 years ago.

Any political party who gets the reign of power can only at best, have some influence on the affairs of state. They are but one cog, and one of diminishing influence in an increasingly globalised world. And people continue to have great expectations for the new kid on the block!

Perhaps it is not solely a political phenomenon. I’ve notices sports fans frequently advocate changing their manager to right all that’s wrong with their club. And of course, it very rarely does.

Criticize them all you want. But no alternative to FG + Lab will (or can!) do any better a job.

Stiffler2

rabble rabble yabba dabba doo

Didn't you know that the household charges are paying for these bonuses, not for local services, that's really where our money is going if you were tarded enuff to pay it.

Anyway I'm running my water non-stop in my house because of all these charges.

If I have to pay for water, then I will use my water whichever way I loike loike.

mikom

lugha wrote: »

Perhaps it is not solely a political phenomenon. I’ve notices sports fans frequently advocate changing their manager to right all that’s wrong with their club. And of course, it very rarely does.

Criticize them all you want. But no alternative to FG + Lab will (or can!) do any better a job.

*looks at Stan*

*looks at Trap*

*checks flights to Poland*

token101

lugha wrote: »

Perhaps it is not solely a political phenomenon. I’ve notices sports fans frequently advocate changing their manager to right all that’s wrong with their club. And of course, it very rarely does.

Someone clearly hasn't an iota of what they are talking about!

sbsquarepants

starbelgrade wrote: »

Whatever about dishonesty & incompetance, I'm not sure you could accuse them of corruption, in all fairness.

Dishonesty and corruption go hand in glove. They promised the sun, moon and stars as regarding pay levels and salary caps, witholding bonuses etc, to get elected then as soon as they were in and held the purse strings there was exception after exception made for their cronies.
What's that if not corruption? They have back tracked on more or less every single thing they said "it's morally unjust to tax a mans home" was opposition endas heartfelt belief.
Watch this space in 5 or 10 years and see what underhand deals are being done with Denis O'Brien.

2ndcoming

lugha wrote: »

And how does returning their largest number of TDs even equate to “nearly imploding”?

The "near implosion" was the attempted heave by Varadkar and co just prior to the election.

Returning their largest numbers is only a reflection of the decimation of Fianna Fail rather than the success of Fine Gael.

Sadly, the Simpsons say it best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfvvYuO6zHM

lugha

mikom wrote: »

*looks at Stan*

*looks at Trap*

*checks flights to Poland*

Trap was hardly a new kid on the block. Perhaps you were unaware that he had something of a reputation in the management game before we got our hands on him.

So you think Sinn Fein are the political equivalent of Trapattoni? :pac:
It would be nearly worth given them a stint in power just to witness the delusions evaporate. :P

mikom

lugha wrote: »

Trap was hardly a new kid on the block.

And how long has Kenny been stinking up the place?

lugha wrote: »

So you think Sinn Fein are the political equivalent of Trapattoni?

Do not put words in my mouth.

lugha

2ndcoming wrote: »

The "near implosion" was the attempted heave by Varadkar and co just prior to the election.

Oh please! Heaves are part and parcel of politics. They are a gamble. If it had succeeded FG might well now have an overall majority.

2ndcoming wrote: »

Returning their largest numbers is only a reflection of the decimation of Fianna Fail rather than the success of Fine Gael.

And in the zero sum game that is the Dail of 166 seats, how exactly does any party make substantial gains in seats if another party or parties does not decline?

lugha

mikom wrote: »

And how long has Kenny been stinking up the place?

Toaiseach? Just over a year. And doing a job that isn't substantially better (perhaps slightly) or worse than I would expect from anyone else.

mikom wrote: »

Do not put words in my mouth.

The substantial point I make is that Sinn Fein, or any new party, give no real reason to think that they would, or can, do things any better. Are you disputing that?

2ndcoming

lugha wrote: »

And in the zero sum game that is the Dail of 166 seats, how exactly does any party make substantial gains in seats if another party or parties does not decline?

A party could gain seats by being comprehensively better than what they oppose, by impressing on a national scale. By "winning" the public and the election by their own skills. That is not what happened and if you think it is then you are deluded.

FG were the only place a pretty big proportion of the electorate thought they could turn when the norm, FF, self-destructed. They were almost guaranteed to be the majority party by default.

To use one of your sporting analogies most kids born in the 70s and 80s support Liverpool. Most kids born in the 90s and noughties support Man U. Go figure.

2ndcoming

lugha wrote: »

Toaiseach??

A good oul Gaeilge. The Achilles heel of the Blue Shirt!

shedweller

Barely Hedged wrote: »

shedweller wrote: »

Those performance / bonus thingys. Where do i get one of those.
The place i work for has its profits rising but i don't see any wage increase. Why? I don't work in a financial institution, that's why.

As I said, it's not just the banking sector that has bonuses and incentivised pay schemes. Time to remove the blinkers

Blinkers? I'm now working harder to replace all the people let go recently while my employers make ever larger profits. And i am getting no bonuses for that, only the usual "you're lucky to have a job" quotes.

I've got no blinkers on.

Freddie59

Barely Hedged wrote: »

When I say bank I mean an institution that is essentially recovering as much money as possible for me and you the tax payer.institution that has fcuked the country over for generations to come, shouldn't be trading, is still paying golf club membership for its employees, and wants to reward incompetence.

There. That's what you really meant.

Zebra3

Barely Hedged wrote: »

I'd like to know what you're expectations were for a government that came in when spending is about €15bn more than receipts?

To stop repaying debts with taxpayers money that have nothing to do with the state.

Basically to stand up for the people and not foreign banks. :rolleyes:

Freddie59

mac_iomhair wrote: »

ireland needs a new political party which represents the people and not the bankers, but at the same time isn't full of "save the whales" types!!

Or smoked salmon "socialists".

Freddie59

smash wrote: »

So you have no idea how bonuses work then!

Yeah, aren't they supposed to reward competent, efficient people?

Freddie59

dsmythy wrote: »

Rabbling over, none of the current board of AIB or the bank formerly known as Anglo, were on the board prior to 2009. In Bank of Ireland's case two of the board were, though the State doesn't completely own it so it doesn't matter. So these guys will be paid bonuses if they successfully fix the mess left by others in the lead up to 2008/09.

And how, pray tell, are they going to do this? By being overpaid? By continuing to pay gym and golf club memberships for employees at the cost of the taxpayer?

Freddie59

Barely Hedged wrote: »

I'd like to know what you're expectations were for a government that came in when spending is about €15bn more than receipts?

Lower taxes, pump more money into the health system etc etc

* Reduce the deficit.

* Slash costs.

* Close bankrupt banking entities.

* Remove high PS/CS salaries and "entitlements" in line with the country's income.

* For starters.

Freddie59

lugha wrote: »

But no alternative to FG + Lab will (or can!) do any better a job.

FFS.:rolleyes: Mods can we have a facepalm/shakes head icon? Seriously.

Zebra3

All this bs about the new bankers are different to the ones whom presided over the collapse, however is the selection process any different? :rolleyes:

Barely Hedged

Zebra3 wrote: »

To stop repaying debts with taxpayers money that have nothing to do with the state.

Basically to stand up for the people and not foreign banks. :rolleyes:

Broken record.

Renegoitiation and extension of the term of the loans is a something the government should be given a slight bit of praise for.