Noonan Clears The Way for Bankers Bonuses

BigDog1 · 03-04-2012 5:34pm

Does anyone remember that when property taxes were removed in the seventies, they were replaced by a higher V.A.T. rate?

I haven't seen this point muted anywhere, even in the anti-pay lobby.
It seems that the more we pay, the more F.G. and Labour can pay to the Troica, which is like asking my neighbours to pay my morgage!

Freddie59 · 03-04-2012 5:34pm

lugha wrote: »

Toaiseach? Just over a year. And doing a job that isn't substantially better (perhaps slightly) or worse than I would expect from anyone else.

The substantial point I make is that Sinn Fein, or any new party, give no real reason to think that they would, or can, do things any better. Are you disputing that?

They probably wouldn't. But I think it's time they were give a chance maybe? But I can't see them committing to what needs to be done no more than FG/Lab. None of them have the balls to do what I listed above. And this is the reality: this will have to be done. And soon.

Freddie59 · 03-04-2012 5:35pm

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Broken record.

Renegoitiation and extension of the term of the loans is a something the government should be given a slight bit of praise for.

Bollocks. Complete and utter. If we hadn't a deficit we could have told these pricks to fcuk off. But because we have another ballless Government we will keep on borrowing.

Barely Hedged · 03-04-2012 5:38pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

* Reduce the deficit.

* Slash costs.

* Close bankrupt banking entities.

* Remove high PS/CS salaries and "entitlements" in line with the country's income.

* For starters.

I agree. Cant be done overnight though

Zebra3 · 03-04-2012 5:38pm

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Broken record.

Renegoitiation and extension of the term of the loans is a something the government should be given a slight bit of praise for.

That the party line, yeah? :rolleyes:

Barely Hedged · 03-04-2012 5:41pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

Bollocks. Complete and utter. If we hadn't a deficit we could have told these pricks to fcuk off. But because we have another ballless Government we will keep on borrowing.

If we didnt have a deficit we wouldnt have a problem - exactly. I dont get the point you're making though about how the government and balless? They didnt create the deficit

BigDog1 · 03-04-2012 5:41pm

Yes, it can't be done overnight, slashing costs, but we've had a few years to mull it over, so maybe it's time to get the 'proverbial' finger out.....

lugha · 03-04-2012 5:43pm

lugha wrote: »

But no alternative to FG + Lab will (or can!) do any better a job.

Freddie59 wrote: »

FFS. Mods can we have a facepalm/shakes head icon? Seriously.

lugha wrote: »

The substantial point I make is that Sinn Fein, or any new party, give no real reason to think that they would, or can, do things any better. Are you disputing that?

Freddie59 wrote: »

They probably wouldn't. But I think it's time they were give a chance maybe? But I can't see them committing to what needs to be done no more than FG/Lab. None of them have the balls to do what I listed above. And this is the reality: this will have to be done. And soon.

Now Freddie. You can argue that the alternative to FG + Lab would do better. You can argue that they would not be any better. But trying to make both arguments simultaneously ….

TwoShedsJackson · 03-04-2012 5:47pm

Born to Die wrote: »

Fine Gael or Labour were very quiet while in opposition as FF plundered the country.

They certainly were, and they too said what they wanted to whilst in opposition: nothing.

Politicians in Ireland have two objectives: a) get into power, and b) stay in power.

To achieve a) they make promises about all the great things they will do, and state how the current lot are doing it wrong.

Then to achieve b) they ignore half of what they said and keep their vested interests happy - to stay in power in this country with it's poor turnout in General Elections, you only need the support of about 30% of the population, and once you have that you can ignore everyone else.

lugha · 03-04-2012 5:48pm

2ndcoming wrote: »

A party could gain seats by being comprehensively better than what they oppose, by impressing on a national scale. By "winning" the public and the election by their own skills.

And how do you demonstrate that you are "comprehensively better" at governing, when you are not actually governing?

Answer: You cannot. So you get very articulate lads to make pretty speeches (a la Doherty in the present day or Dick Spring 20 years ago) and the very foolish electorate are duped in to believing that being articulate in opposition equates to being effective in government.

Freddie59 · 03-04-2012 5:53pm

Barely Hedged wrote: »

If we didnt have a deficit we wouldnt have a problem - exactly. I dont get the point you're making though about how the government and balless? They didnt create the deficit

But they can eliminate it. By taking the tough decisions.

Freddie59 · 03-04-2012 5:54pm

lugha wrote: »

Now Freddie. You can argue that the alternative to FG + Lab would do better. You can argue that they would not be any better. But trying to make both arguments simultaneously ….

Meh. Just musing really. But then again I can see (unlike the blinkered party faithful on here:rolleyes:) and appreciate what's gong on.........

AngryBollix · 03-04-2012 5:56pm

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

remember with your votes next election.

Vote for who

sinn fein, ff or the united left alliance.

I fail to see how that solves any of our problems

Barely Hedged · 03-04-2012 5:59pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

That the party line, yeah? :rolleyes:

More like reality when in 10/15 years we'll be saying to ourselves how wasnt that the best of all the options available to us at the time.

If you were to use Greece as a case study for alternatives: when Greece and it's economy start recovering they'll be saddled with clawback clauses from the swaps entered just a few weeks ago.

It really is the best of all the options im afraid.

Everybody wants their pound of flesh but we've got to pay our debts.

Barely Hedged · 03-04-2012 6:03pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

But they can eliminate it. By taking the tough decisions.

Telling me exactly what reasonable "tough" decisions can be taken that add up to €15bn.

I want hard figures here.

And wasnt this thread supposed to be about Bankers bonuses?

Freddie59 · 03-04-2012 6:16pm

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Telling me exactly what reasonable "tough" decisions can be taken that add up to €15bn.

I want hard figures here.

And wasnt this thread supposed to be about Bankers bonuses?

It's intertwined my friend. Here are the hard figures:

We're borrowing €400m a week - how long can we, as a state, sustain this? In order to keep PS/CS wages and "entitlements" (along with the ludicrous SW system) artificially high?

80% of the education budget spent on salaries.

70% of the HSE budget spent on salaries.

And so on..........

Barely Hedged · 03-04-2012 6:23pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

It's intertwined my friend. Here are the hard figures:

We're borrowing €400m a week - how long can we, as a state, sustain this? In order to keep PS/CS wages and "entitlements" (along with the ludicrous SW system) artificially high?

80% of the education budget spent on salaries.

70% of the HSE budget spent on salaries.

And so on..........

No it's not - I dont know any bankers in Ireland getting €15bn in bonuses - no arguement or fact.

Multiply SW payments by recpients - how much. Not €15bn

80% of the education budget spent on salaries - where's the €15bn?

70% of the HSE budget spent on salaries - where's the €15bn?

Get my point. You can beat the chest and talk the strong rhetoric but it's not backed up by the reality of the situation.

Gringo180 · 03-04-2012 6:27pm

Dirty tramps that Fine Gael are, a good revolution is what this country needs:mad:

freewheeler · 03-04-2012 6:27pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Is anybody surprised?

At this stage i'd nearly say FG are worse, ie more corrupt, more dishonest and more incompetent than the last shower of gits.:mad:

Bad as they are they haven't quite sunk to that level...yet

Bullseye1 · 03-04-2012 6:30pm

No wonder they wanted that money in by the 31st March.

Phill Ewinn · 03-04-2012 6:35pm

AngryBollix wrote: »

Vote for who

sinn fein, ff or the united left alliance.

I fail to see how that solves any of our problems

Think you're missing the fundamentals. FF/FG and the ''Greens'' should face consequences for their actions during the Anglo bail out fraud.

It's pretty simple. A term in office for independents, shinners and ULA members might turn tthis country around. Throwing a few heads in jail would do all of us the world of good.

Zebra3 · 03-04-2012 6:53pm

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Everybody wants their pound of flesh but we've got to pay our debts.

I've no problem with us paying our debts, but unlike FG and Labour I do not want us paying debts that have nothing to do with the taxpayer.

Freddie59 · 03-04-2012 7:02pm

Barely Hedged wrote: »

More like reality when in 10/15 years we'll be saying to ourselves how wasnt that the best of all the options available to us at the time.

If you were to use Greece as a case study for alternatives: when Greece and it's economy start recovering they'll be saddled with clawback clauses from the swaps entered just a few weeks ago.

It really is the best of all the options im afraid.

Everybody wants their pound of flesh but we've got to pay our debts.

What is this we you speak of, Kimo Sabe?

A foreign bank loaned money to an Irish bank, who in turn loaned it to a minority of Irish households, who they shouldn't have loaned it to in the first instance. The whole gamble went tits up, and the rest of us must pay? No fckuing way.

Freddie59 · 03-04-2012 7:03pm

Barely Hedged wrote: »

No it's not - I dont know any bankers in Ireland getting €15bn in bonuses - no arguement or fact.

Multiply SW payments by recpients - how much. Not €15bn

80% of the education budget spent on salaries - where's the €15bn?

70% of the HSE budget spent on salaries - where's the €15bn?

Get my point. You can beat the chest and talk the strong rhetoric but it's not backed up by the reality of the situation.

What is the reality then?

Education budget: €8.6bn

HSE budget: €13.3 Bn.

SW is, I think €29 Bn.

Easy to see how the deficit can be tackled really. If you have the balls.

Do the math on the salary.

gerryo777 · 03-04-2012 7:03pm

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Say a banker working in one of our majority owned banks had the ability to recover €2 million for that bank in doing his job. Do you think he should be incentivised or the tax payer would rather see that €2 million go up in smoke?

Are you for real?

Seriously, any banker should be incentivised for getting back a fraction of the money he/she was probably involved in losing???

These **** should be on minimum wage for the damage they caused to our country.

When the banks pay back the 70 odd billion euros they owe us, the people of Ireland, then they can pay themselves whatever bonuses they like.

Until then they can **** off!

Barely Hedged · 03-04-2012 7:04pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

I've no problem with us paying our debts, but unlike FG and Labour I do not want us paying debts that have nothing to do with the taxpayer.

Tell me what debts arent officialy soverign debts that a government must honour?

Barely Hedged · 03-04-2012 7:11pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

What is this we you speak of, Kimo Sabe?

A foreign bank loaned money to an Irish bank, who in turn loaned it to a minority of Irish households, who they shouldn't have loaned it to in the first instance. The whole gamble went tits up, and the rest of us must pay? No fckuing way.

And can you tell me how that foreign bank were able to lend us the money. What financial instrument, deregulation allowed it? Seems we owe a lot financially and morallly to these people over the years.

Minority of Irish households - minority = small economic growth. Dont recall that do you?

Gamble - so we should take a gamble that these same foreign banks and funds in 10 years time will have forgotten all about when we did them over in 2012 and wont demand a large credit spread and stifle economic growth in Ireland for another 10/15 years due to large funding rates faced by us?

gerryo777 · 03-04-2012 7:11pm

freewheeler wrote: »

Bad as they are they haven't quite sunk to that level...yet

Just over a year in power and they are already totally disconnected from the people who elected them.

The arrogance of big phil and yer man shatter is astonishing.

They would do well to remember how/why they got elected.

The Irish people are well able to hand out beatings at election time and the local elections aren't that far away!

Barely Hedged · 03-04-2012 7:14pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

Are you for real?

Seriously, any banker should be incentivised for getting back a fraction of the money he/she was probably involved in losing???

These **** should be on minimum wage for the damage they caused to our country.

When the banks pay back the 70 odd billion euros they owe us, the people of Ireland, then they can pay themselves whatever bonuses they like.

Until then they can **** off!

You not read my previous posts? Decisions taken at board level.

Seems you like jumping to conclusions without too much in depth analysis

Zebra3 · 03-04-2012 7:16pm

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Tell me what debts arent officialy soverign debts that a government must honour?

Debts that were run up by private institutions should not be repaid by the Irish taxpayer.

If Dáil Éireann can pass legislation hoisting those debts on to the back of the taxpayers, then it can also pass legislation disowning them.

But FG and Labout would rather serve the interests of foreign financial institutions than those of the Irish people.

They are parasites.

Barely Hedged · 03-04-2012 7:22pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

What is the reality then?

Education budget: €8.6bn

HSE budget: €13.3 Bn.

SW is, I think €29 Bn.

Easy to see how the deficit can be tackled really. If you have the balls.

Do the math on the salary.

Let me do some reading on that and get back to you. As far as I know the SW isnt that big?

take everything · 03-04-2012 7:25pm

dsmythy wrote: »

Rabbling over, none of the current board of AIB or the bank formerly known as Anglo, were on the board prior to 2009. In Bank of Ireland's case two of the board were, though the State doesn't completely own it so it doesn't matter. So these guys will be paid bonuses if they successfully fix the mess left by others in the lead up to 2008/09.

Assuming a bonus is deserved for fixing a mess, are you saying the mess will be fixed by early next year (the article talks of bonuses early next year).
Last time I checked the banks had been stuffed with billions of taxpayers money and businesses were being starvedof credit and going to the wall.
Is that monumental mess due to be fixed in the next year.

Freddie59 · 03-04-2012 7:33pm

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Let me do some reading on that and get back to you. As far as I know the SW isnt that big?

It's actually €20.5Bn. My mistake. Apologies.

Freddie59 · 03-04-2012 7:37pm

Barely Hedged wrote: »

And can you tell me how that foreign bank were able to lend us the money. What financial instrument, deregulation allowed it? Seems we owe a lot financially and morallly to these people over the years.

Minority of Irish households - minority = small economic growth. Dont recall that do you?

Gamble - so we should take a gamble that these same foreign banks and funds in 10 years time will have forgotten all about when we did them over in 2012 and wont demand a large credit spread and stifle economic growth in Ireland for another 10/15 years due to large funding rates faced by us?

Deregulation by Thatcher and Regan in the 1980s, which removed safeguards in place since the Great Depression. A bank, up to then, could only loan what they had on deposit. No more. Suddenly, banks had access to markets and unlimited funding. And the rest, as they say, is history.

Whatever way you dress it up, this is a PRIVATE debt between PRIVATE companies, with no taxpayer involvement at any point. They backed a horse called the Property Market. It lost. And now they want their stake back. No thanks.

Noonan Clears The Way for Bankers Bonuses

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