New Triton As2000X Power Shower Triping Breaker

Comer1

I installed a new power shower last week (not electric, just mixes hot and cold with a pump.) Absolutely no leaks in the pipework and wired up perfectly using the cables that were there from the last power shower, which worked flawlessly for 15 years. It works fine for most of the time, but occasionally, when we turn up the power on the shower, it trips the RCD. When I immediately reset the RCD, it works fine again, even if I then up the power to the max on the shower again. I've opened the shower and there may be one or two drops at the bottom of the shower, but nowhere near any electrics.

I know nothing about circuit breakers or RCDs. The circuit breaker for the shower has C10 printed on it, but this doesn't trip, its the RCD that does and it has BD62 printed on it (means nothing to me:))

Could it be the circuit breaker, or would it be a faulty shower. I bought this from an ebay store in the UK so Triton Ireland won't look at it. My only option would be to send it back if it's faulty. I really hope it's not the shower as taking it out and capping the pipes (not much room) would be a real pain.

Any suggestions really appreciated.


Conor

M cebee

hard to call the problem,prob shower alright
you'd need to verify wiring is good before rma'ing anyhow

bd62 is a 63amp rcd ,think they used to be on GE boards

Comer1

Thanks for the reply. Electrician neighbour also thought it must be the shower. However, he put in a new RCD for me last Friday and it hasn't tripped since. So...fingers crossed. Sending back the shower would be a real pain.

Comer1

This is still happening and I've decided to buy a new shower but before I do, just a few observations.

It usually happens when the kids are using the shower and they like long hot showers. It hardly ever happens during a short shower.

It can even trip if the shower has been off for hours, but the pull cord is left on. This is in the middle of the night when there is very little electrical usage in the house.

I'd hate to spend 260 euro on a new shower and have the new one do the same thing.

Tuco88

I'd hate to spend 260 euro on a new shower and have the new one do the same thing.[/QUOTE]

You should have an insulation resistance test carried out on the cable to rule that out, its not a big job and its the only decent way to test. Whatever about the shower unit the last ting you want is to be running a new cable.

Does it trip with the pull cord in the off position? Its one way in getting an idea what might be causing the fault. If it only trips when in the on position its a good chance its the shower or the cable from the pull cord down, but you really need a current to flow to show the fault at the best of times.

No water should be leaking in the unit, water is very difficult to trace at times. It might be what is causing the random trip.

When it does trip its not taking sockets out with it? on its own RCD/RCBO?

tomdempsey200

Comer1 wrote: »

This is still happening and I've decided to buy a new shower but before I do, just a few observations.

It usually happens when the kids are using the shower and they like long hot showers. It hardly ever happens during a short shower.

get an electrician..
your kids are using the shower and it's tripping..

Comer1

Tuco88 wrote: »

When it does trip its not taking sockets out with it? on its own RCD/RCBO?

It takes out sockets with it. Strange that the old shower worked flawlessly for 15 years on that cabling.

If it was being caused by water, would that only be in the shower unit itself? I've checked inside that and it seems bone dry. Also, if it was water, why would it trip five or six hours after being used when the pull cord was left on.

Also, it never trips with the pull cord off.

2011

Comer1 wrote: »

It takes out sockets with it. Strange that the old shower worked flawlessly for 15 years on that cabling.

Perhaps it is nothing to do with the cabling
An electrician would be able to verify if the cabling is ok and if the RCD is faulty.
Through a process of elimination it would be possible to see if the shower unit needs to be replaced at all

Comer1

2011 wrote: »

Perhaps it is nothing to do with the cabling
An electrician would be able to verify if the cabling is ok and if the RCD is faulty.
Through a process of elimination it would be possible to see if the shower unit needs to be replaced at all

Already replaced the RCD

2011

Comer1 wrote: »

Already replaced the RCD

Was it tested following replacement to ensure that it is not over sensitive?
This has been known to cause nuisance tripping.

Comer1

Not sure if I understand what you mean, is it not very very unlikely that both RCDs would be over sensitive?

2011

Comer1 wrote: »

Not sure if I understand what you mean, is it not very very unlikely that both RCDs would be over sensitive?

As I am sure you know an RCD is a safety device.
Apart from the fact that it is against the regulations to install such a device and not test it it is also potentially dangerous.
How do you know that it will operate when it should if it has not been tested?
Most electricians will tell you that they have come across faulty RCDs over the years, some won't trip, some will trip but are not sensitive enough and some are over sensitive.
However you are correct, the chances of the RCD being faulty are small.
Normally as well as an RCD test an electrician fixing this type of problem would carry out an insulation resistance test (so that the wiring itself can be ruled out of the equation).
If it were my home I would have the shower on a dedicated RCBO.
It may be that the combined earth leakage of all of your socket circuits and the shower pushes the RCD over the 30mA limit.
All showers would have a certain (safe) amount of earth leakage.

Tuco88

If it was being caused by water, would that only be in the shower unit itself? I've checked inside that and it seems bone dry. Also, if it was water, why would it trip five or six hours after being used when the pull cord was left on.

Also, it never trips with the pull cord off.[/QUOTE]

It would be most likely be in the unit. If it was slowly dripping it could take a few hours for enough to build up across a connection and cause a short.


There must be leakage to earth with the unit so or the cable from the pull cord to the shower, It would be worth your time to have it put on an RCBO, that way it wont take out your sockets in the future which must be very annoying.

Get an Electrician in.

2011

Tuco88 wrote: »

If it was being caused by water, would that only be in the shower unit itself?

Not necessarily. Water anywhere within the circuit could cause a neutral to earth fault (which is most likely what you have).

I've checked inside that and it seems bone dry.

..and perhaps it is bone dry. I never said that water was causing the problem. It might be causing the problem. Even dampness that would not be visible to the eye has been known to cause an RCD to trip. You could have insulation damage within the shower unit on on the wiring supplying it.

Also, if it was water, why would it trip five or six hours after being used when the pull cord was left on.

Actually an intermittent fault is quite typical when water is causing the problem.
Sometimes the reduction in resistance that the water causes is not quite enough to cause the RCD to trip. Then something somewhere else that is also fed from the same RCD is switched on, now the threshold is exceeded and the RCD trips.

Also, it never trips with the pull cord off.

This suggests that the fault is downstream of the pull cord.

It would be most likely be in the unit.

Agreed, but testing that is no reason not to test your RCD!

Time to get an electrician in me thinks

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Not necessarily. Water anywhere within the circuit could cause a neutral to earth fault (which is most likely what you have).

When water is the cause of RCD trips, it is probably unlikely to do it as a neutral to earth fault when the neutral path is intact, particularly on a low power item.

When water is involved in causing trips, its much more likely to be a Live to earth, or part way along an element to earth, than just purely neutral to earth. Neutral-Earth nuisance faults are usually direct contact faults.

2011

Bruthal wrote: »

When water is the cause of RCD trips, it is probably unlikely to do it as a neutral to earth fault when the neutral path is intact, particularly on a low power item.

Why?

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Why?

Because you have a solid neutral path from the neutral connection of shower back to the board. If you have a 1 or 2 amp load, the neutral to earth fault path would want to be a reasonable low impedance one to divert even 30ma.

If a person contacted between rcd neutral and the earth bar, do you believe the rcd would trip from that?

2011

Bruthal wrote: »

If a person contacted between rcd neutral and the earth bar, do you believe the rcd would trip from that?

Generally no.

Having said that I have seen people touch the phase and not trip the RCD, but I see your point

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Generally no.

Having said that I have seen people touch the phase and not trip the RCD, but I see your point

Touching only a phase and no other contact won't trip rcd either. Unless in bare feet and standing on nice wet ground. Tripped them once or twice myself unintentionally from phase to earth, one hand to other. Quite a nasty shock required to trip them.

2011

Bruthal wrote: »

Touching only a phase and no other contact won't trip rcd either. Unless in bare feet and standing on nice wet ground. Tripped them once or twice myself unintentionally from phase to earth, one hand to other. Quite a nasty shock required to trip them.

Sure, it is not enough just to complete the circuit with your body, enough current must flow through you. How much current flows through you will depend on many variables.

I worked on a job once and the plant room floor was lined with pitch (a great insulator). An electrician worked on some SWA cables for quite sometime before he realized that they were live. I can't remember all of the details but he survived and was treated for burns.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Sure, it is not enough just to complete the circuit with your body, enough current must flow through you. How much current flows through you will depend on many variables.

I worked on a job once and the plant room floor was lined with pitch (a great insulator). An electrician worked on some SWA cables for quite sometime before he realized that they were live. I can't remember all of the details but he survived and was treated for burns.

Thats why that test I often heard fellas mention, touching a cable or item with back of hand to ensure its dead so you won't grasp it, If it is live, is a complete waste of time, and does not prove the item is isolated. Even standing on any floor surface, no current will be perceived even if the item is live, if the person is in dry shoes.

But people who believe that is a valid test, will think the item is safe.

kramer1

Sounds like a leak. Id double check the pipe work again.if that doesn t do the job id get the cables/rcd checked by a sparks. Triton do guarantee their showers , if all else is fine give them a shout

Comer1

Thanks for all the replies. It really does seem like a leak but the pipes are coming up from underneath and the cable is coming down from above. There is no leak or splashes where the water enters the shower as it is bone dry inside. Any leaks in the pipework would by draining down away from the cables. It has never tripped when the pullcord is switched off.

The shower hasn't been used since last Friday so last night I took it out and temporally connected up another spare shower I have at home. Apart from switching it on for about 30 seconds to test it with absolutely no water allowed to spray anywhere near the shower unit, I left it with the shower off but the pullcord on and after about an hour it tripped again. Switching the showers was a real pain but at least it suggests that the shower is OK.

So, if it's not a faulty shower, it never trips when the pullcord is off, water from the pipes cannot be affecting the cables and it trips without even having the shower on, it surely must be the cable going from the pullcord to the shower??? I think I can easily replace that so maybe that will get me sorted.

K.Flyer

Have you checked the routing of the electric cable as it passes behind the shower unit to ensure that one of the fixing screws has not caught it and is causing a short.

Comer1

K.Flyer wrote: »

Have you checked the routing of the electric cable as it passes behind the shower unit to ensure that one of the fixing screws has not caught it and is causing a short.

The screws are below the cable.

2011

An electrician can carry out an insulation resistance test to find out if the insulation is lacking, which core(s) are giving trouble and where the problem is. Without testing it properly all that you can do is speculate/make educated guesses.

While you have an electrician there you may as well get the RCD tested, for the sake of an additional 5 minutes

Comer1

2011 wrote: »

An electrician can carry out an insulation resistance test to find out if the insulation is lacking, which core(s) are giving trouble and where the problem is. Without testing it properly all that you can do is speculate/make educated guesses.

While you have an electrician there you may as well get the RCD tested, for the sake of an additional 5 minutes

Agreed. I contacted an electrician last night but he can't get to me for a couple of weeks. If its an easy job to change the cable in the mean time, I might try that.

Thanks for all the help.

2011

If there is an issue with a cable it is most likely the cable between the isolator & the shower unit.

Bruthal

Check the pull chord switch itself for signs of a problem as well. And the cable from it to shower we can assume has no cowboy junction boxes on it.

Comer1

Bruthal wrote: »

Check the pull chord switch itself for signs of a problem as well. And the cable from it to shower we can assume has no cowboy junction boxes on it.

Checked pull chord twice. I'm fairly sure that there is a junction box between the pull cord and shower. What can I do about that apart from replace the entire cable?

2011

Comer1 wrote: »

Checked pull chord twice. I'm fairly sure that there is a junction box between the pull cord and shower. What can I do about that apart from replace the entire cable?

Would it be difficult to replace the cable?
That would be best.