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New Triton As2000X Power Shower Triping Breaker

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    #122
    Comer1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Comer1


    WikiHow wrote: »
    How many different ways are there in pressing the on button?


    :confused:


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    #123
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Comer1 wrote: »
    there was no current through the earth when the capacitor was disconnected.

    What measuring device were you using to deduce this?


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    #124
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Well it would seem the rcbo is connected incorrectly anyway. So the shower instantly tripping the rcd would suggest the electrician has connected the neutral supply to the new rcbo into the neutral bar controlled by the rcd, but connected the live feed to the rcbo into the correct place, or vice versa.

    This will cause instant trip as soon as shower is run, but only of the rcd, not the rcbo.


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    #125
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    WikiHow wrote: »
    What measuring device were you using to deduce this?

    I have to say I was wondering that exact same thing earlier.


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    #126
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Well it would seem the rcbo is connected incorrectly anyway. So the shower instantly tripping the rcd would suggest the electrician has connected the neutral supply to the new rcbo into the neutral bar controlled by the rcd, but connected the live feed to the rcbo into the correct place, or vice versa.

    This will cause instant trip as soon as shower is run, but only of the rcd, not the rcbo.

    Good detailed analysis but it conflicts the evidence in post #65 where he said it runs for a minute or two, how can it now be tripping instantly now?


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    #127
    Cogsy88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 460 ✭✭Cogsy88


    I've read through most of the thread and the op is confusing me.


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    #128
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    WikiHow wrote: »
    Good detailed analysis but it conflicts the evidence in post #65 where he said it runs for a minute or two, how can it now be tripping instantly now?

    I think originally it tripped after pullchord was on for few hours. After rcbo fitted it happened after a few minutes. All without shower actually running I think?

    With shower not running, it might trip rcd after a while if fed through only on neutral if there is some small leakage. But once shower is attempted to be run, it would be instant trip.


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    #129
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Bruthal wrote: »
    I think originally it tripped after pullchord was on for few hours. After rcbo fitted it happened after a few minutes. All without shower actually running I think?

    Surely his electrician ran the shower?


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    #130
    Cogsy88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 460 ✭✭Cogsy88


    WikiHow wrote: »
    Surely his electrician ran the shower?

    By the looks of things I don't think so.


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    #131
    Comer1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Comer1


    Cogsy88 wrote: »
    I've read through most of the thread and the op is confusing me.

    Me too:)


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    #132
    Comer1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Comer1


    WikiHow wrote: »
    Surely his electrician ran the shower?

    It was tripping with just the pull cord on.


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    #133
    Cogsy88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 460 ✭✭Cogsy88


    Comer1 wrote: »
    It was tripping with just the pull cord on.

    When you pulled the pull chord initially or after a while?


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    #134
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Comer1 wrote: »
    It was tripping with just the pull cord on.

    So in your post #65 it was tripping without the shower running? And am i right in saying since the RCBO was fitted the shower will not run?


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    #135
    Comer1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Comer1


    WikiHow wrote: »
    So in your post #65 it was tripping without the shower running? And am i right in saying since the RCBO was fitted the shower will not run?

    Yes


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    #136
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Comer1 wrote: »
    Yes
    As previously deduced by Bruthal there is incorrect wiring done in connecting up the board.


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    #137
    Cogsy88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 460 ✭✭Cogsy88


    Are them pictures in one of your previous posts your shower r jus some you found on the internet? Because you have a 6 square cable goin into a shower with no heater it's only a power shower not electric cause ders a hot and cold feed for the water!!! Pics r in post 80.


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    #138
    Comer1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Comer1


    WikiHow wrote: »
    So in your post #65 it was tripping without the shower running? And am i right in saying since the RCBO was fitted the shower will not run?

    Yes


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    #139
    Comer1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Comer1


    Cogsy88 wrote: »
    it's only a power shower not electric cause ders a hot and cold feed for the water!!!

    I know


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    #140
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Cogsy88 wrote: »
    Are them pictures in one of your previous posts your shower r jus some you found on the internet? Because you have a 6 square cable goin into a shower with no heater it's only a power shower not electric cause ders a hot and cold feed for the water!!!

    Tom Dempsey previously mentioned that there may have been an instant electric shower there one time and OP just replaced like for like.


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    #141
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    This thread is proving to be more interesting than watching a recorded episode of The Mentalist, I've not enjoyed such a complicated plot as this for a long time:D

    I think the whole panel is going to need checking to make sure that the neutrals are correctly connected to the appropriate return bus bar, it's beginning to look like there may be an issue with another circuit that has a small persistent earth leak, and the shower is providing an extra flow that's taking it over the top, and tripping the RCD,

    As things stand at the moment, the new RCBO seems to be confusing the issue, in that it appears that it's either wrongly wired or wrongly located on the RCD bus, which may make the next tests inappropriate until that's been resolved. If the RCBO is correctly fitted, if there are any issues with the shower line, the only thing to trip should be the new RCBO, if the RCD also trips, or only the RCD trips, then the wiring to the RCBO is wrong, and needs to be corrected.

    It's going to cause disruption to the rest of the house, but I think the time has come to do some specific testing of the other circuits, by turning off the other MCB's, and resetting the shower on, and then bringing the other lines back on line one at a time initially, in a phased manner to see if that gives any clues as to which other circuit is implicated.

    What might also be interesting would be to completely disconnect the shower from the power line, and put something like an extension lead light on to that circuit, and see if the problem changes, or if the RCD still trips. It's important that the shower earth NOT be connected to the wiring earth initially for this test.

    What I'm interested to see is if there is an earth path through the plumbing that's somehow implicated in all this, and putting something like a lead light on the circuit would mean that there's power flowing in that circuit, but not being earthed through an alternative route. Another option would be to temporarily connect a 13A socket to the shower wires, with the earth connected, and then try running something like a vacuum cleaner on the extension, again for the same reason, to try and get a handle on the possibility of the plumbing being the earth path. Another option for the 13A socket would be to plug an electric kettle in to it to draw a decent current on that circuit.

    If one or more of these tests work, try adding the shower earth connection back into the block, with the 13 A socket still fully connected, and see if that changes anything. If it does, then there is something strange happening with the way that the earth and neutrals are being linked or connected through the plumbing.

    How is the hot water being heated at the moment, boiler or immersion heater? It might be significant.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #142
    Cogsy88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 460 ✭✭Cogsy88


    WikiHow wrote: »
    Tom Dempsey previously mentioned that there may have been an instant electric shower there one time and OP just replaced like for like.

    If it's a power shower it can be fed off a socket circuit via a spur. Now I'm getin really confused. Y did the original electrician go and put new rcbo in??!!


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    #143
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Cogsy88 wrote: »
    Y did electrician go and put new rcbo in??!!

    Because it was previously only on an RCD.


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    #144
    Cogsy88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 460 ✭✭Cogsy88


    WikiHow wrote: »
    Because it was previously only on an RCD.

    Does it have to be on a dedicated rcbo? A socket circuit would provide rcd protection.


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    #145
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Cogsy88 wrote: »
    Does it have to be on a dedicated rcbo?

    No but better pratice to do so.


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    #146
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Irish Steve wrote: »

    How is the hot water being heated at the moment, boiler or immersion heater? It might be significant.

    What way are you thinking the two are connected?


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    #147
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I think the RCBO was to try and isolate the shower line from the other RCD circuits to see if it changed the symptoms of the problem.

    There was a power shower there, which wasn't on a dedicated RCD, which is recommended now, and putting a dedicated RCBO on that line would help to determine if it's a leakage on the shower line that's causing the RCD to hop out, or if it's contributing to the RCD tripping. The shower that's there now doesn't need high power, it's a mixer pump only, with no heating, so a 3 amp sput would be enough power, but the safety side of it is better with a dedicated line, cord switch etc, which is what's supposed to be there now.

    It could well be that something like the heating boiler, which is probably not on the RCD line, could be implicated, if there's been a mix up on the wiring, which is why this is not predictable as such.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #148
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    I think the RCBO was to try and isolate the shower line from the other RCD circuits to see if it changed the symptoms of the problem.

    Until this is done correctly and tested by electrician and the capacitor put back in place one cannot diagnose any further.


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    #149
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    WikiHow wrote: »
    What way are you thinking the two are connected?

    Some sort of issue with the fact that (in theory) there is an earth path through the pipework, and if there's a small earth path on the immersion heater due to corrosion, or similar, it might be allowing a path that's not part of the expected circuit, and if this house is the age I think it is, the immersion may well not be on the RCD circuit. Shouldn't make a difference in theory, as the Earths should be consistent, but there's something else behind the scenes on this one other than the shower, so exploring possible sources of earth leakage elsewhere, Heating boiler might also be a possible, depending on if it's oil or gas, the ignition circuit might be out of balance if there's an earth path there .

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #150
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    WikiHow wrote: »
    Until this is done correctly and tested by electrician and the capacitor put back in place one cannot diagnose any further.

    Yes. In some respects, the waters are muddier now than they were. If the covers have to come off the main panel again, and they do, I'd have to go with the idea that every circuit needs to be checked at this stage,

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #151
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    so exploring possible sources of earth leakage elsewhere, Heating boiler might also be a possible, depending on if it's oil or gas, the ignition circuit might be out of balance if there's an earth path there .

    cumulative earth leakage would be enough to trip the RCD, a shower would have some earth leakage and maybe another appliance or device as you say going at the same time with leakage would be causing it to trip.


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