boy bullied out of school over accent?

The King of Moo

AngryBollix wrote: »

Yes quite including those who take internet forums posts too seriously

Why should a statement not be worthy of serious consideration simply because it's made on the internet?

Should this boy not take the facebook page about him seriously, because sure it's just on the internet?

laoch na mona

could he not have just slagged them back

Doc Ruby

No two ways about it, this poor kid was subjected to nasty abuse. Irish kids have also been subjected to similar abuse by their peers though, sometimes you just get a cluster of wee shites who will pick on anyone, whether its a different accent or a different attitude. The school needs to start looking into suspensions and expulsions of ringleaders if these allegations are true.

The King of Moo

laoch na mona wrote: »

could he not have just slagged them back

One post like this in such a thread I'd dismiss as trolling, but do people actually think this would work?

Fighting Irish

Sykk wrote: »

So what's your opinion?

Not that anyone gives a **** really :rolleyes:

Dave147

Nodin wrote: »

What fucking odds does that make?

It makes plenty fucking odds.

Doc Ruby

This is how bad it can get, an Irish girl bullied into committing suicide after emigrating to the US.

Nine teenagers have been charged over the death of a 15-year-old Irish migrant who killed herself after months of merciless and sometimes violent bullying by fellow students at a Massachusetts school.Phoebe Prince took her life in January in desperation at harassment led by female students who resented her dating an older American football player.
Six of the teenagers, four females and two males, face charges ranging from criminal harassment, stalking and breach of civil rights over the bullying which included text messages and abuse on Facebook.
The male students are also charged with statutory rape, apparently over relationships they had with Prince. Three younger girls, aged under 16, face delinquency charges. One has also been charged with assault with a dangerous weapon, listed as a bottle or can. Prince hanged herself at home at the end of a day at South Hadley high school in which she was bullied repeatedly by three students, including one she had a brief relationship with.

Nine teenagers facing criminal charges over it. Yes, I think the school needs to take a serious stand on this and send a clear message, saying "man up" is bollocks in any language.

CrazyRabbit

I vote to punch the bullies in the face.

Ok. Not the best way to handle it, but at least it would be more effective than the response of the school/Gardai...or lack of thereof.

byhookorbycrook

You cannot access facebook through the school internet providers, so while the school can help children through discussing cyberbullying, they are otherwise powerless.

Doc Ruby

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

You cannot access facebook through the school internet providers, so while the school can help children through discussing cyberbullying, they are otherwise powerless.

Schools are most definetely not powerless to stop bullying, online or offline. They have wide discretion in disciplinary matters, saying "facebook isn't useable from within the premises" is a thorough cop out.

Or would you rather wait till someone else commits suicide.

hondasam

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Schools are most definetely not powerless to stop bullying, online or offline. They have wide discretion in disciplinary matters, saying "facebook isn't useable from within the premises" is a thorough cop out.

Or would you rather wait till someone else commits suicide.

I don't think schools can control what happens outside of the school. It's down to parents to control what happens in the home.
Teachers have a responsibility to stop bullying but you cannot expect them to control the behaviour of every child in their care during and after school.

Doc Ruby

hondasam wrote: »

I don't think schools can control what happens outside of the school. It's down to parents to control what happens in the home.
Teachers have a responsibility to stop bullying but you cannot expect them to control the behaviour of every child in their care during and after school.

A clear and obvious trend of persecution can be regulated by discussing it with the parents and making it clear what the consequences will be if said behaviour is not modified.

Education is education.

byhookorbycrook

Doc Ruby, you will find the kind of parents who allow their children to throw eggs at houses will be very quick to tell you that you cannot even correct a child for anything after school hours. Sadly, they are right and no amount of talk of suicide will change this. The only thing a school can attempt to control is what happens during school hours.If you read the Examiner article you would see the school sought legal council on the issue.

"St Colmcille’s took legal advice that concluded that to invoke sanctions for incidents outside of school — and specifically cyber-bullying — would be "exceeding the school’s remit".

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/boy-10-bullied-out-of-school-over-accent-188605.html#ixzz1r0E9gW9m

hondasam

Doc Ruby wrote: »

A clear and obvious trend of persecution can be regulated by discussing it with the parents and making it clear what the consequences will be if said behaviour is not modified.

Education is education.

What do you do when it's the parents who need the education? There is no talking to some parents and it's their attitude that makes their kids bullies.

GaryIrv93

Neither can parents constantly control their child's actions. Often however bullying is unfairly blamed on the parents (even good parents) not controlling every single thing their child does, which they can't. Even if parents bring their child up with good manners and how to treat others as how they would like to be treated, it doesn't always work. The kids, who carried out the actions in the first place should take the most blame and take most of the punishment - the parents didn't bully the victim, why should they take so much blame?

Doc Ruby

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Doc Ruby, you will find the kind of parents who allow their children to throw eggs at houses will be very quick to tell you that you cannot even correct a child for anything after school hours. Sadly, they are right and no amount of talk of suicide will change this. The only thing a school can attempt to control is what happens during school hours.

Quite often parents are unaware of what their little darlings are up to. Its a complete cop out to say that the school's hands are clean. Of course the parents share the blame but lets not fool ourselves here.

hondasam wrote:

What do you do when it's the parents who need the education? There is no talking to some parents and it's their attitude that makes their kids bullies.

I guess the school had better come up with an anti bullying procedure then.

Seriously, what do you think happens to bullies after they leave school? They become the next leaders of the country, captains of industry, the success stories? No, these are the socially malformed who end up in low grade jobs taking out their anger on whoever is unfortunate enough to come within their reach, and anyone stupid enough to hire them for important roles won't be long regretting it. It is not behaviour to be encouraged.

Duggys Housemate

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Seriously, what do you think happens to bullies after they leave school? They become the next leaders of the country, captains of industry, the success stories? No, these are the socially malformed who end up in low grade jobs taking out their anger on whoever is unfortunate enough to come within their reach, and anyone stupid enough to hire them for important roles won't be long regretting it. It is not behaviour to be encouraged.

YOu haven't met some of my bosses, huh?

hondasam

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

Neither can parents constantly control their child's actions. Often however bullying is unfairly blamed on the parents (even good parents) not controlling every single thing their child does, which they can't. Even if parents bring their child up with good manners and how to treat others as how they would like to be treated, it doesn't always work. The kids, who carried out the actions in the first place should take the most blame and take most of the punishment - the parents didn't bully the victim, why should they take so much blame?

These kids are in primary school, parents still have a big influence on their lives. I would not blame all parents but parents have to accept some of the blame.

Duggys Housemate

I doubt that all bullies in school fail to do well, I have anecdotal evidence to the contrary, the biggest bully in my year in school is now rich, and sorta famous ( not hugely, but he has been on TV). He was more a verbal kinda bully, confident etc. We did clash but I wasn't his victim.

And, plenty of evidence suggests, that the cocky do well in later life.

secretambition

Schools need to be given a lot more powers to deal with bullying, but equally they should be made a lot more responsible for stopping it during school hours and there should be consequences if they fail, similar to how employers can be held responsible for allowing bullying.

I know that they can't suspend and expel quickly enough. They should be able to do that much more quickly. However, I've also heard of a situation where a child reported bullying to a teacher and the response was that it's not nice to tell tales and "how do you ever expect to be friends with [the bully] if you tell on them?" Wtf? Why would you assume that a kid ever wants to be friends with their bully? They should be taught enough self-respect never to do this. The fact is that dealing with bullying is extra hassle for staff. I've also heard of situations where a bully has done a long list of things to their victim and the victim has maybe told them to "shut up" or something, which is bad behaviour, but miniscule compared to what they've endured. The school decides there's a pair of them at it so the victim can't really complain without being criticised themselves.

Doc Ruby

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

I doubt that all bullies in school fail to do well, I have anecdotal evidence to the contrary, the biggest bully in my year in school is now rich, and sorta famous ( not hugely, but he has been on TV). He was more a verbal kinda bully, confident etc. We did clash but I wasn't his victim.

And, plenty of evidence suggests, that the cocky do well in later life.

Confidence is a far cry from being a bully though. What we're talking about here is persecution.

byhookorbycrook

I know of a school where a child who broke a teacher's nose, slashed tyres and spat at the principal. The school found it difficult even to suspend the child. (And it wasn't a child with special needs, the child was perfectly aware what they did and did it in a cold, calculating manner-not that "heat of the moment" is any excuse)
The rights all seem to be on the side of wrongdoers.

I am not suggesting the school abdicate its responsibility, but the issue remains that the school cannot act on behaviours outside of school .

Edited to add: Secret Ambition, it certainly is NOT easy to suspend and particularly expel a primary pupil.

GaryIrv93

Honestly don't see the point in having anti-bullying policies when they're not even enforced most of the time. Until something serious happens, that is. A policy alone is not going to prevent a kid from being bullied. Either have a policy and enforce it with severe consequences, or don't have it at all. Nothing such as ''Oh this bully is just looking for attention/ he's bullied himself/he's having problems at home...''should excuse bullies for what they're doing. A crackdown on bullies, with action, not words, is what we need.

marnie d

AEDIC wrote: »

`
it absolutely isnt.... and which English accent... London, Cornish, Liverpool, Newcastle...

Actually there's a white South African girl at work, and without ever having asked her where she was from, I just assumed she was English. Listening to her a bit more, then I thought she was Australian. I was only when she was talking about back home in South Africa one day that I copped on.

Carter P Fly

Why is it exactly that South Africans have to say South Africa in every South Africa sentance? (South Africa) All in an accent that makes you want to punch them in the face!!

Deank

Carter P Fly wrote: »

Why is it exactly that South Africans have to say South Africa in every South Africa sentance? (South Africa) All in an accent that makes you want to punch them in the face!!

What are you smoking, I have known South Africans for most of my adult life and what you have said is nonsense, and as for their accent it is probably the nicest of all of the southern hemisphere accents. :mad:

Carter P Fly

You'll start noticing it now I've mentioned it. Every bloody sentance they throw those two words in for no apparent reason. Same way it seems like NI folk say 'situation' a disportionate amount of times that any conversation would normally require.

AEDIC

AEDIC wrote: »

`
it absolutely isnt.... and which English accent... London, Cornish, Liverpool, Newcastle...

Someone needs to stop being ignorant and learn your history.

White South Africans with British ancestry (like this kid Dalton) would tend to have a an accent that could be described as sounding a bit like an upper class English accent. If his parents were originally from Rhodesia and he picked up their accent the chances of this would be dramatically increase.

Those of Dutch origin for whom afrikaans would be their native tongue will sound nothing like this.

byhookorbycrook

GaryIrv, what would you see as suitable sanctions?

youreadthis

veloc123 wrote: »

Bad attitude there old chap...we all know the Brits are racist bastages...they are known for it throughout the world..

I feel for you bro. You're such a nice well rounded guy and those limey Brit imperialists just couldn't see it. IMO this is a reflection of their small island mentality and not a reflection on you being a prick, which you are obviously not.

:pac:

up for anything

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

Ive never met a nice South African

Duffff-Man wrote: »

How many have you met? Doesn't give dickheads a reason to bully the kid.

Bambi wrote: »

thets not bloody seprising man

thecommietommy wrote: »

You mustn't get out much. Not wrong with women of Dutch extraction

summerskin wrote: »

...and that's not bloody surprising man.

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Could be nice ones out there but any I've met were highly abrasive.

Auvers wrote: »

stupid comment

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

its the title of a song akshally

Did all of you miss MonkeyTennis' reply?

He's referring to

which came from the Spitting Image puppet satire series. Wikipedia article on the subject.

Its pretty dire now but at the time was very funny (different times). In fact, my brother used to sing it constantly but that stopped when he met the South African girl whom he then married. He then moved to South Africa. For some reason now he doesn't find the song funny when we start singing it to him.

Stiffler2 wrote: »

You cannot shrug off Physical abuse
I do not see why you can't shrug off Verbal Abuse though ?
Cyber Bullying / Online bullying can be ignored / blocked or also shrugged off

So the real issue here is Physical abuse.

Please explain this to me Moo :
"Sticks & Stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me"

Did your parents teach this to you as a kid and what is it's meaning to you ?
I am interested

Teachers and parents no longer quote this stupid saying to children. I doubt that there is a person alive who doesn't know that words can wound much deeper than physical blows.

GaryIrv93

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

GaryIrv, what would you see as suitable sanctions?

Any type of bullying, let it be: Cyber, Physical, Emotional, Verbal.. then certain punishments such as Reprimands, Detention, Community Service, Additional Work, Parents contacted, Suspension, Exclusion from PE or group activities are suitable, and if it get's to where the victim ends up crying or feels his/her safety is threatened, then the bully should be cautioned. If it continues - bully suspended for a certain duration, if that fails, then Expulsion. One warning to a bully is enough of a chance for him/her to stop, if they ignore it and suffer suspension or expulsion, then tough.

Owryan

Christ when you read that blog, its just shocking. If those allegations are true and there is no reason to assume they are not it just goes to show how difficult it is to get any kind of justice in this country.

Nobody is to blame dispite being in positions of responsibility and having first hand evidence. Ends up with the victim having to move schools and the principle in the old school can go on thinking what a "great" useless person they are :mad:

paddy kerins

What's wrong with the South African accent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isHZcy0RKEE

LifesgoodwithLG

My heart goes out to the little boy and his family,

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can also hurt me.
Stones and sticks break only skin, while words are ghosts that haunt me.
Slant and curved the word-swords fall, it pierces and sticks inside me.
Bats and bricks may ache through bones, but words can mortify me.
Pain from words has left its' scar, on mind and hear that's tender.
Cuts and bruises not have healed, it's words that I remember.

Optimalprimerib

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Duffff-Man wrote: »

They love getting taunted everyday and being made a joke in front of a school? You must have had a very unusual childhood if that's your outlook on things. How would you suggest that the victim stops this attention?

In my post you can see I said : "Don't get me started on social network / online bullying"

obvioulsy the physical side of bullying is different and would be hard.
The online bullying though I personally do not understand. You can simply block the bullies on facwebook, twitter etc... hence my comment about bullying ONLINE

again physical bullying is different but I didn't say that in the first place.
I also mentioned an age old quote "Sticks & stones " - which obviously isn't relevant in Modern Ireland anymore

I was laughed at and sneered for almost a week over something nasty written on a wall about me that I didn't know about by a person I barely knew. When I found out I was humiliated and infuriated. I would much rather know what was said about me than putting my head in the sand and blocking a page like you suggest

Grayson

bwatson wrote: »

They probably thought he was English? Oh right, fair enough then :rolleyes:

Something similar happened to me as a kid because of my english accent. my parents moved home when i was three but the accent stuck. And the bullying only started at age 10 for some reason. It was different though. I had my friends and it was just one group.

It went on for nearly a year until one day I lost it, kicked the ringleader in the balls as hard as i could and started screaming abuse at him. All his friends just stood and watched. And they never touched me again.

byhookorbycrook

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

Any type of bullying, let it be: Cyber, Physical, Emotional, Verbal.. then certain punishments such as Reprimands, Detention, Community Service, Additional Work, Parents contacted, Suspension, Exclusion from PE or group activities are suitable, and if it get's to where the victim ends up crying or feels his/her safety is threatened, then the bully should be cautioned. If it continues - bully suspended for a certain duration, if that fails, then Expulsion. One warning to a bully is enough of a chance for him/her to stop, if they ignore it and suffer suspension or expulsion, then tough.

Gary, I appreciate your reply and I would love to think we could really crack down on bullies with some of these.

Issues in schools: detention -little Asbo is entitled to his break, additional work-Asbo won't do it. Exclusion from various subjects Asbo is entitled to do PE ,suspension Asbo gets to stay home and egg the house of his victims and brag he got extra days off.Parents contacted Asbo and his parents will tell you in no uncertain terms to f*** off.

Therein lies the problem, we, as adults expect other adults to behave as we would, i.e be horrified ,ground ASBO, apologise profusely to other child and parents,but sadly, in many cases it just doesn't happen.
It is nigh on impossible to expel a child in primary, the case I quoted earlier is a prime example.Asbo assaults teachers, intimidates
kids- NEWB will tell you he is entitled to an education and fight it every step of the way.

DarkJager

LifesgoodwithLG wrote: »

My heart goes out to the little boy and his family,

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can also hurt me.
Stones and sticks break only skin, while words are ghosts that haunt me.
Slant and curved the word-swords fall, it pierces and sticks inside me.
Bats and bricks may ache through bones, but words can mortify me.
Pain from words has left its' scar, on mind and hear that's tender.
Cuts and bruises not have healed, it's words that I remember.

Quoting Justin Bieber lyrics????

melekalikimaka

hondasam wrote: »

Yes they do, it's very similar to the English accent.

i dated a SA lass and i assure you its nothing like an english accent.

Ronnie Binge

Grayson wrote: »

Something similar happened to me as a kid because of my english accent. my parents moved home when i was three but the accent stuck. And the bullying only started at age 10 for some reason. It was different though. I had my friends and it was just one group.

It went on for nearly a year until one day I lost it, kicked the ringleader in the balls as hard as i could and started screaming abuse at him. All his friends just stood and watched. And they never touched me again.

Being educated in Ireland between 1971 and 1983 meant that my experience included Bloody Sunday and the Hunger Strikes. Not a good time to be an Irish kid who had lived in England prior to that and had a really "nice" accent which I tried hard to lose.

It took a visit to the head brother of my secondary school to finally stop out all the bull**** from the local retards who liked nothing better to physically attack me from the safety of a gang outside school. Hitting them individually didn't work, as the attacks had got more extreme.

There always has been a psychotic element here that is simultaneous bone stupid and viscerally hates anyone different. I feel for that kid in Kells but thankfully his parents have backbone and are not afraid to stand up for him publically.

If a child aged under 12 has no criminal responsibility then social services need to get involved. You need a licence for a dog but rear your child to be an animal doesn't appear to have any sanction from Official Ireland other than hand wringing.

TomKat

DarkJager wrote: »

Quoting Justin Bieber lyrics????

YOU KNOW JUSTIN BIEBER LYRICS????

nlgbbbblth

Nodin wrote: »

What fucking odds does that make?

If the child was white then maybe the bullies saw him as a symbol of oppression.

Rowanvella199

When I was four I moved to england till i was about 12 with my parents as they were moving for work, when I returned i had picked up an english accent!! Let me say Irish people can be some of the most racist people around! Its a small majority and mostly in the country side, But let me tell you racism is very very real in Ireland!

GaryIrv93

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Gary, I appreciate your reply and I would love to think we could really crack down on bullies with some of these.

Issues in schools: detention -little Asbo is entitled to his break, additional work-Asbo won't do it. Exclusion from various subjects Asbo is entitled to do PE ,suspension Asbo gets to stay home and egg the house of his victims and brag he got extra days off.Parents contacted Asbo and his parents will tell you in no uncertain terms to f*** off.

Therein lies the problem, we, as adults expect other adults to behave as we would, i.e be horrified ,ground ASBO, apologise profusely to other child and parents,but sadly, in many cases it just doesn't happen.
It is nigh on impossible to expel a child in primary, the case I quoted earlier is a prime example.Asbo assaults teachers, intimidates
kids- NEWB will tell you he is entitled to an education and fight it every step of the way.

You have some fair points. However regarding the bully being entitled to his break and his education also - in schools there are rules to be obeyed - in every one of them it is an offence to bully another classmate or student. If a bully isn't prepared to obey the school rules then he should be punished and be prepared to accept the consequences, have his priviliges taken away from him. He should only be entitled to these if he accepts and obeys certain rules that are to be followed in the school he attends. If not, then (pardon my language) he should be f****d out of the school into the mud. It should be that simple.

Now in severe bullying cases, could a restraining order be filed against the bully regardless of his age? If he's suspended let's say, then could he be required by law to keep a certain distance away from the house of the victim? Considering the likliehood that he might egg it/vandalise it?

positron

Fair play for the parents of the poor lad for keeping their cook and doing it all by the book. I certainly wouldn't have that level of self control and would have done something stupid that I would have landed me in even more sh*t.

If anyone thinks you can just joke about race, foreigners etc, always remember, there are always young and impressionable people around who take it seriously make life miserable for others. This is serious sh*t and responsibility starts with every single one of us.

Smidge

My two cents worth
My child was bullied horrifically for the entire year last year. Fifth class. Not your average name calling and and tormenting but serious physical stuff(6 of of them bashing him in the yard). I was up and down to the school like a yo-yo. The parents of said children wouldnt even attend the school when summoned on the matter the were "too busy" as I was informed!! I was at my wits end as NOTHING was done and it went on and on. In the end it got so bad I had to go to the Gardai and was told as above that nothing could be done as they were under 12.
Principal said their hands were tied etc and in the meantime my child went through hell.
In the end by the end of the year I confronted the principal and said that seeing as how nobody could do anything about these kids, not the school, gardai and that the parents of these little f**kers were not being put out in the slightest that the next kid that put a hand on my child I would wait for my child at 3 oclock along with all of the other parents and when the mother of said child showed up to collect her "little darling" I was going to wipe up the parking lot with her face and to pass on that message.
Seemed to the trick.
Nearly finished 6th and not a peep!!!
BTW my child is Irish so I think the fact that the kid in the OP had an accent and was bullied is incidental.
Bullying is out of control in the school system here due to the "PC" brigade and something has to be done about it.

TheBegotten

Lord knows, if this was my kid i'd be sending him in with a hurley next morning and tell him to stop when they hit the ground :P and I'd take the rap.

TimeToShine

As someone who knows a lot of people who went to colmcilles and was pretty close to attending it myself i can honestly say it doesn't surprise me one bit.

ihsb

I have been here seven years and still have my English accent. Girls can be really bitchy about it but I think it would have been worse if I was a guy.

Once or twice I have gotten comments in work like "Don't they hire Irish people here?" But you really have to let it by pass you. It was much harder in school though and I feel for the boy. Though the SA accent wrecks my head!