An open apology to the 84% of devout Catholics

Irish Wolf

mcmoustache wrote: »

If people were mocking what Tom Cruise believes.

Oh no, you didaaaannnnntttt!

Owen_S

mcmoustache wrote: »

If people were mocking what Tom Cruise believes, it wouldn't be a problem. We'd all laugh and high-five because his beliefs are nonsense.

But when it's a religion with more followers but with equally ridiculous beliefs, then it's not cool. It's being smug.

Tom Cruise is a fudge packer :pac:

AngryBollix

cabbage kid wrote: »

I totally agree that it's all in how it's said, but people use Richard Dawkins and a few pretentious idiots on the internet to attack a whole group of people who really have very little in common.

Richard Dawkins is Atheisms poster boy though

mcmoustache

Owen_S wrote: »

Tom Cruise is a fudge packer :pac:

You can't call a guy a fudge packer just because he packs fudge.

Damned racist.

Irish Wolf

AngryBollix wrote: »

Richard Dawkins is Atheisms poster boy though

Might one say a "god" to the atheist?

Doc Ruby

Weak thread. Weak posts. Weak OP. A sorry show, all in. Thankfully most of you people are too cool to vote. Atheism has a lot going for it but this thread ain't it.

Chuck Stone

Owen_S wrote: »

Tom Cruise is a fudge packer :pac:

Cursed.

Banned.

Sued.

cabbage kid

AngryBollix wrote: »

Richard Dawkins is Atheisms poster boy though

He's not the Pope of atheism. Again with the generalisations, there's plenty of atheists who don't care what he has to say or dislike the way he says it.

xsiborg

UrbanSea wrote: »

krudler wrote: »

hey you inferred some religious beliefs arent silly, I answered showing how they are,my point stands.

It may be silly in your opinion, but that's what it is, an opinion, nobody can give you a definitive answer.

Religion can and has changed many people's lives for the better, and I'm not naive enough to say that it hasn't changed people's for the worse, though that is mostly due to people representing Catholic Institutions, not the religion nor its beliefs.

Religion is a belief. Do you think that fate, destiny, love are silly? Other aspects of life people believe in, yet as murky as religion, though plenty of people believe in them.

nail on the head in this post, i think most people who are attacking people who profess their faith as catholic, are failing to make the distinction between the catholic religion, and the catholic hierarchy!

the hierarchy is as corrupt as fúck, but you could point to any religious hierarchy or organisation and say the very same thing!

one does not have to have faith in the hierarchy to have faith in the religion, the two are not, as most people assume- intertwined!

i still wear a condom when having sex, i dont believe homosexuality to be a mortal sin and other such nonsense spouted by the catholic hierarchy.

i consider myself in MY mind to be a catholic, i see no reason to consider myself an atheist, and what i put down on a census form is even less relevant to anyone else!

and before anyone else jumps on my post, we all remember the 'no religion' sigs doing the rounds, yet i didnt see one 'catholic and proud' sig, and that is why so many people are dismissive of atheism, because they're past it already, they have bigger things to concern themselves with, and atheists are starting to sound like those in the gay community that imagine their persecution- again, we're a long time past that now, you dont have anything to get in our faces about any more, you can stop shouting now, we heard you a long time ago, we just didnt care, and we still dont care!

as another poster commented- if all you have to worry you is what box to tick on a census form and then to start yet another thread in AH about it, you really dont have a whole lot else going on in your life!

Morag

phasers wrote: »

What is it with athiests and the need to be smug about absolutely everything? So a lot of people put Catholic as their religion in the census, who cares?

I care then those incorrect and padded stats are used to back up bigotry and deny me and my children our rights and are used to exclude us.

marty1985

It's hard to tell which side has the bigger persecution complex.

mcmoustache

AngryBollix wrote: »

Richard Dawkins is Atheisms poster boy though

No more than Jessie Jackson being the king of black people or Osama Bin Laden being the spiritual leader of muslims.

If you dislike Dawkins, fine. Just don't assume that all non-believers worship Him. That would be projecting. Atheism isn't a belief system like religion - as much as the religious try to interpret it in that way. It's just a lack of belief in deities and has existed long before Dawkins

mcmoustache

xsiborg wrote: »

i still wear a condom when having sex, i dont believe homosexuality to be a mortal sin and other such nonsense spouted by the catholic hierarchy.

i consider myself in MY mind to be a catholic, i see no reason to consider myself an atheist, and what i put down on a census form is even less relevant to anyone else!

No you're not. You're some kind of Christian but instead you want to change the definition of Catholicism to be whatever it is you are.

You can't do that anymore than call yourself a vegetarian while chomping down on a bloody t-bone or calling yourself a member of the gym when you never joined or attended.

I presume you were just baptised Catholic, didn't believe in Catholic teachings but decided that you must be Catholic because what else would you be? A Protestant?

Tell me this. Do you think one can be a Catholic and not believe in God at the same time?

If yes, at least you're consistent.

If no, who gets to decide which bits of being a Catholic can be ignored and at what point does the selection from the a-la-carte menu become indistinguishable from Protestantism.

pragmatic1

Was out getting wired with some good Catholic girls a few weeks ago. Deadly craic. They brought their gay mates to the pub for the comedown session. If that's what Catholicism is really about maybe I've been too harsh.

TheIrishGrover

OP: From one of the ones who ticked Atheist/No Religion (Can't remember which it said on the form). Don't be a dick. Let each be their own and put what they want. Get off your high horse and try to get over yourself. I know it's an acrobatic feat but I'm sure your smug athleticism should help you do both.

yawha

Chuck Stone wrote: »

My 'lack' (de-indoctrination in my case) of belief in god(s) gets its very own special connotative label whether I like it or not but my 'lack' of belief in every other non-existent thing in the universe gets trivialised - why is that?

...

Because we don't live in a world where many people argue for the existence of unicorns, invisible pink elephants etc. ?

"Atheist" is a word that means "a person who lacks belief in a deity"*. Similarly, "black" means "a colour defined by the absence of light", "Irish person" means "a person who is from or has citizenship of a state on an island west of Britain", "keyboard" means "an input device for a computer which has keys corresponding to each letter of the alphabet, which is used to write text and perform other functions".

Like, I don't understand what your argument is. Words mean things.


*Self proclaimed agnostics trying to tell atheists what they believe often dispute this. It's quite bizarre. Although it's true that in the past "atheism" meant more of an active disbelief, and some dictionaries have this definition, most people who label themselves atheists these days are agnostic atheists, who simply lack belief.

Duggy747

AngryBollix wrote: »

Richard Dawkins is Atheisms poster boy though

No, he's not. His tone, wording and air of smugness helps create a bad image for the rest of us who don't believe in anything and also couldn't care less what other's believe or do with their lives.

I hate when someone asks me an opinion of religion and assume I'll start frothing at the mouth complaining about people pushing their personal opinions on me while at the same time I'm doing the same to them.

I also don't like how this 84% on the census is being percieved by some as some sort of a loss to us atheists. I couldn't give a shìt, even if it was 99.9%.

Chuck Stone

yawha wrote: »

"Atheist" is a word that means "a person who lacks belief in a deity"

That's the bit I have a problem with. I lack nothing. I just don't believe in god(s). There is no something to lack in the first place.

Let's go with the most applicable analogy (being Irish is not a lack of being British and a keyboard is a thing and not a lack of a pencil)

Similarly, "black" means "a colour defined by the absence of light"

Not quite. Afaia black is a colour that doesn't reflect light. Also, light (unlike god) is an observable fact of nature.

There is still light even if the colour black is painted on a wall in a room that gets no light.

philologos

RichieC wrote: »

You're rather quick to criticise for a one trick posting pony you know.

And 90% of my posts which are about Christianity wouldn't have been made if I didn't see misconceptions being posted about it. I would be well happy to leave most alone if that were the case.

However, if one gives me an opportunity to respond, I'll take it. The fact of the matter is that 99% of these type of threads are posted by atheists, not by Christians.

There's also a hugely different motivation as to why most Christians post from why most atheists do. Most Christians when they post about Christianity, post about God's word so that it might be received by the individual, and that they might accept Jesus as Lord and be saved. That's a pretty well intentioned endeavour. I can't say the same for most atheism I see posted here, it seems like it is mostly posted for the sake of ridicule.

Although I don't post exclusively about Christianity, I post a lot about Christianity, so I'll take that criticism. It's a rather positive thing to be criticised for from my POV.

Honest opinion

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Yep. From now on I am going to be religious in every census, I'll change the religion every time though.

This^^^^^

xsiborg

mcmoustache wrote: »

xsiborg wrote: »

i still wear a condom when having sex, i dont believe homosexuality to be a mortal sin and other such nonsense spouted by the catholic hierarchy.

i consider myself in MY mind to be a catholic, i see no reason to consider myself an atheist, and what i put down on a census form is even less relevant to anyone else!

No you're not. You're some kind of Christian but instead you want to change the definition of Catholicism to be whatever it is you are.

You can't do that anymore than call yourself a vegetarian while chomping down on a bloody t-bone or calling yourself a member of the gym when you never joined or attended.

I presume you were just baptised Catholic, didn't believe in Catholic teachings but decided that you must be Catholic because what else would you be? A Protestant?

Tell me this. Do you think one can be a Catholic and not believe in God at the same time?

If yes, at least you're consistent.

If no, who gets to decide which bits of being a Catholic can be ignored and at what point does the selection from the a-la-carte menu become indistinguishable from Protestantism.

well aren't you the smug one, presuming you can be so huberous as to tell me what i am and am not, as if i 'cant be part of the gang'...

this is why catholicism gets such a bad rap, because of people like yourself who seek to quickly judge and label people according to your own standards!

i'll tell you up front im inconsistent, because sometimes i happen to have faith that there is a god, and sometimes i dont. my logical side tells me there isnt one, and that there's no such thing as the afterlife either, but my conscience holds my belief in god and that those that have gone before me are in heaven looking down upon me.

i'll be as a la carte as i like because as i already stated- your beliefs are a personal thing, individual to you, and nobody else's business, and nobody else has the right to tell you what you are or are not, or what you should put down as your religion on a census form.

i also happen to believe aliens exist, does that make me a scientologist? no, i didnt think so either. as i previously stated- i have no faith in the catholic hierarchy, but i consider myself a catholic, and it is my right to do so, no matter what being a catholic means to you, thats your own business and i wouldnt presume to tell you your own business either.

MagicMarker

Chuck Stone wrote: »

'Lack belief' in that which cannot be proved?

Doesn't that sound preposterous to you?

What on earth are you waffling on about?

AudreyHepburn

I've always said I couldn't care less what people do or don't believe. Each to their own as it were.

What bugs me is when people, such as the OP, feel the need to be smug and snide about their beliefs or like thereof.

Some-one's personal beliefs are their own, they are no one else's business and no-one has the right to ridicule and you down for your beliefs. They disagree with you and debate with certainly.

But I draw the line when people start tittering and sneering at me for I what believe.

OP your being athiest does not make you any better than some-one of faith. It does not make you smarter or more educated. Believe what you want but extend others the same curtesy.

coffee_cake

xsiborg wrote: »

this is why catholicism gets such a bad rap, because of people like yourself who seek to quickly judge and label people according to your own standards!

No, according to the standards of the religion you claim to follow

yet again i am utterly bewildered as to why people who follow the beliefs that align with a different church don't just join that church

I Heart Internet

OP - you seem very bitter that more people haven't swallowed the easily-peddled, emperor's new clothes hype that "all the cool kids are atheists now".

Grow up. 84% of people in the last census identified as catholics. You're own all-or-nothing view on what should constitute a catholics (actively practicing all the time) is extreme and old-fashioned. Most people are just trying their best to get along in this life.

Faolchu

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The census needs to have a condition that you need to regularly practice the religion that you put down.

exactly it asks what religion you are not if you are practicing. teh majority of irish nationalis would have been christened thus technicaly still catholics unless they have themselves excommunicated or what ever it is

Micky Dolenz

Meant to close this last night.

OP, bring your gripe back where you brought it from. This isn't the place.