Do you think Cork night-life gets stale?

MrMojoRisin

Fuzz McG wrote: »

It didn't just close though, did it? It went out of business.

I'm not too sure about that. From what I could see and from what I heard, it was doing good business right up until it closed - from the regular DJ sets, to the gigs and Freakscene fortnightly goth nights they ran.

Fuzz McG wrote: »

There's a hell of a lot more variety around the city now than there was back then.

I didn't say or suggest there wasn't. The variety is there but the quality and consistency of it aren't there.

Fuzz McG wrote: »

A lot of Cork/Irish talent is as good as the international stuff coming in and there is a nice mix which helps with keeping things varied and fresh. Sure you've got your mainstays as the previous poster above said, but that's no bad thing either.

I disagree. If Cork/Irish talent is so good, how come there's so little of it that makes its way into the top 40 chart on a regular basis? I mean, if something's really good, people are going to want to buy it, aren't they?

At the moment, there are just seven Irish artists in Ireland's top 40 album chart - Mick Flannery, The Chieftains, Bressie, The Dubliners, Sinead O'Connor, The Coronas and Imelda May - but most of The Dubliners are dead (and thus, unable to gig) now. Oh, and incidentally, Bressie is gigging at the moment, but is he coming to Cork? Not at all. He's going next-door to Limerick's Dolan's Warehouse.

As for the gigging mainstays, they'd do themselves and their audience a favour by bothering to write and release new material at least every four years. Comedians have to write new material to continue to keep their audience - why shouldn't musicians do that as well? They're creative people, so it should be in their nature, and not much of a stretch, to continue creating.

Fuzz McG wrote: »

I don't get this statement at all. Between a lot of the venues you mentioned in your post, they're collectively doing exactly that. Having everything in one venue is a big mistake; if anything, it's a restriction on the variety that's essential to appealing to a broad mass of people.

What's there to get? Venues let in over-18s. End of story. They're only shooting themselves in the foot by excluding a sizeable chunk of what could be good business for them (and especially in this stormy economic climate). Anyway, over-18s want decent live music too. When I was 18, I had to travel to Dublin anytime I wanted to see a decent international rock band/singer because there was f**k all happening here. As well as paying for the ticket, I had to fork out money for travel, accommodation and food too. I wouldn't have had to do that if Cork venues bothered to book the decent acts that Dublin venues booked in the first place.

I think you'll find that the type of music will act as a filter for the age group it attracts. I mean, if a venue has Aslan :rolleyes: playing one week, it's highly unlikely that a horde of booze-frenzied 18-year-olds are going to storm the place. More so the over-30s instead (who would probably be more familiar with Aslan's music). Same thing if they had someone like Christy Moore, Rufus Wainwright or Leonard Cohen playing.

But if the venue had, say, Plan B playing the following week, then I'd say there'd be a lot of the younger crowd as well as people in their mid-to-late 20s (Plan B seems to have a fairly broad appeal). The music itself will dictate the age of the revellers.

AwayWithFaries

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

Oh, and incidentally, Bressie is gigging at the moment, but is he coming to Cork? Not at all. He's going next-door to Limerick's Dolan's Warehouse.

He played a gig in the Pav last night.

http://www.pavilioncork.com/venue/event-details/bressie

Eod100

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

I wouldn't have had to do that if Cork venues bothered to book the decent acts that Dublin venues booked in the first place.

I don't think it's down to booking. Cork doesn't have the population or big enough venues to attract those acts imo. And I'm a Corkman in case anyone thinks I'm showing some Dublin bias! :P

Dublin has places like the 02, Olympia, Grand Canal, Vicar Street and that's just off the top of my head.

The Cork venues that can compare in size in terms of capacity to these places are Opera House, Savoy (which is closed down till later in the year as far as I know) and Everyman. Obviously the Everyman and the Opera House are primarily theatres but they do have the odd gig, more so the Opera House than Everyman. Other than that there's not a whole lot of dedicated gigging venues - what I mean by that is the Olympia, Vicar Steet are solely used for events whereas most venues in Cork double as a pub too.

Live at the Marquee does draw in big enough names but the problem with that is it's not a permenant fixture.

There's talk of building a 6,000 seat venue on the Beamish site so if that's going ahead it could bring more ''big name'' acts to Cork :

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0106/1224309891706.html

Fuzz McG

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

I'm not too sure about that. From what I could see and from what I heard, it was doing good business right up until it closed - from the regular DJ sets, to the gigs and Freakscene fortnightly goth nights they ran.

Sweat and Freakscene left Henry's in 2000; it closed in 2003. The place was pretty much empty in its last year of business. Probably due to people just wanting something different and a lot more competitors popping up (Henry's was the only thing going in its heyday really)

I didn't say or suggest there wasn't. The variety is there but the quality and consistency of it aren't there.

Well we're going to have to agree to disagree. There's a lot more decent stuff coming to Cork now than ten years ago. Quality is subjective, of course.

I disagree. If Cork/Irish talent is so good, how come there's so little of it that makes its way into the top 40 chart on a regular basis? I mean, if something's really good, people are going to want to buy it, aren't they?

At the moment, there are just seven Irish artists in Ireland's top 40 album chart - Mick Flannery, The Chieftains, Bressie, The Dubliners, Sinead O'Connor, The Coronas and Imelda May - but most of The Dubliners are dead (and thus, unable to gig) now.

Are we using the charts as a baromoter of quality now? That would make Westlife the best music Ireland has ever produced. Secondly, seven Irish albums in the Top 40 in one random week is pretty good; it's a hell of a lot more than you would have had five or ten years ago. More Irish bands/musicians get into the charts these days than anytime before.

Those album charts don't count certain download sales (like Bandcamp, where I buy most of my music) and independent shop sales either a lot of the time. The charts haven't quite caught up to how the majority of people are consuming music nowadays.

Oh, and incidentally, Bressie is gigging at the moment, but is he coming to Cork? Not at all. He's going next-door to Limerick's Dolan's Warehouse.

He played a sold-out show in the Pavilion last night. And again, if that's what you mean by quality...:)

Anyway, over-18s want decent live music too. When I was 18, I had to travel to Dublin anytime I wanted to see a decent international rock band/singer because there was f**k all happening here. As well as paying for the ticket, I had to fork out money for travel, accommodation and food too. I wouldn't have had to do that if Cork venues bothered to book the decent acts that Dublin venues booked in the first place.

Again, look to any listings and there's just way more live music now than there was back in the days of Henrys and there's greater diversity too. That was my point. Live music - local and international - is a lot more vibrant now than it was then, when it was more focused on DJs and the like.

As for international acts, I agree a bigger venue would be needed to accomodate them. But Ireland is a small country and for acts like Leonard Cohen, it's more practical to just play a number of Dublin dates as it means they travel less and they know people are willing to travel to them. These guys have huge minimal fees; it's even more if you want them to play another city in a country of this size. Dublin has what, ten times the population of Cork?! Personally I don't see there being enough of a demand in a city Cork's size for a 5,000 capacity venue but good luck to the madmen trying it!

MrMojoRisin

Eod100 wrote: »

I don't think it's down to booking. Cork doesn't have the population or big enough venues to attract those acts imo. And I'm a Corkman in case anyone thinks I'm showing some Dublin bias! :P

Dublin has places like the 02, Olympia, Grand Canal, Vicar Street and that's just off the top of my head.

The Cork venues that can compare in size in terms of capacity to these places are Opera House, Savoy (which is closed down till later in the year as far as I know) and Everyman. Obviously the Everyman and the Opera House are primarily theatres but they do have the odd gig, more so the Opera House than Everyman. Other than that there's not a whole lot of dedicated gigging venues - what I mean by that is the Olympia, Vicar Steet are solely used for events whereas most venues in Cork double as a pub too.

What about Whelan's and The Sugar Club in Dublin? They're fairly small, yet they host decent acts fairly regularly. The Old Oak/Cyprus Avenue is similar in size/capacity to Whelan's.

Eod100 wrote: »

Live at the Marquee does draw in big enough names but the problem with that is it's not a permanent fixture.

That's true. There was the same problem with Pairc Ui Chaoimh years ago, even though it obviously wasn't a music venue first and foremost; they pulled in big names like Prince and Michael Jackson, and had Feile as well. I vaguely recall The Prodigy being on the bill for one of the Feiles. Temporary delights... :mad:

Eod100 wrote: »

There's talk of building a 6,000 seat venue on the Beamish site so if that's going ahead it could bring more ''big name'' acts to Cork :

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0106/1224309891706.html

Let's hope it doesn't remain that - talk. They love to talk.

MrMojoRisin

Fuzz McG wrote: »

Sweat and Freakscene left Henry's in 2000; it closed in 2003. The place was pretty much empty in its last year of business. Probably due to people just wanting something different and a lot more competitors popping up (Henry's was the only thing going in its heyday really)

I think competition between venues is a good thing - if they can hack it - because it keeps them on their toes and provides decent entertainment for the public.

Fuzz McG wrote: »

Are we using the charts as a baromoter of quality now? That would make Westlife the best music Ireland has ever produced.

Not at all. Sure Westlife are sh*t. The charts are merely reflective of what a large proportion of the general public likes at any given time. If an Irish act's album can't even crawl into the top 40 - anywhere from number 17 to number 38 - well, Christ, there must be something wrong with the music. That, or they or their label need to try harder to promote their music.

Fuzz McG wrote: »

Secondly, seven Irish albums in the Top 40 in one random week is pretty good; it's a hell of a lot more than you would have had five or ten years ago. More Irish bands/musicians get into the charts these days than anytime before.

That's a good result for Ireland's album chart? Seven is a paltry number, in fairness. I'd expect to see a greater Irish presence than that.

Fuzz McG wrote: »

Those album charts don't count certain download sales (like Bandcamp, where I buy most of my music) and independent shop sales either a lot of the time. The charts haven't quite caught up to how the majority of people are consuming music nowadays.

I think they need to update the charts here like they did in the UK about six years ago. That's something they really need to sort out between all the above parties.

Fuzz McG wrote: »

He played a sold-out show in the Pavilion last night. And again, if that's what you mean by quality...

Well, he's a lot better than the likes of Jedward (who haunt the country's venues from time to time). He wouldn't be my type of music, but the man can definitely hold a tune and play guitar pretty well. If I had been aware he was playing The Pav sooner, and it was on a weekend, I would have gone down to it. I've heard a lot worse than him, in fairness.

Fuzz McG wrote: »

Again, look to any listings and there's just way more live music now than there was back in the days of Henrys and there's greater diversity too. That was my point. Live music - local and international - is a lot more vibrant now than it was then, when it was more focused on DJs and the like.

I do look at the listings. All the time. I'm well aware of what's out there. I'm just unimpressed by it.

Fuzz McG wrote: »

As for international acts, I agree a bigger venue would be needed to accomodate them. But Ireland is a small country and for acts like Leonard Cohen, it's more practical to just play a number of Dublin dates as it means they travel less and they know people are willing to travel to them. These guys have huge minimal fees; it's even more if you want them to play another city in a country of this size. Dublin has what, ten times the population of Cork?! Personally I don't see there being enough of a demand in a city Cork's size for a 5,000 capacity venue but good luck to the madmen trying it!

The likes of Leonard Cohen wouldn't have to travel much at all if he took a direct flight from London to Cork and bypassed Dublin altogether. There'd have to be some serious waffling done to make him want to come to Cork only though.

BTW, I don't think there are as many people willing to travel to gigs these days, what, because of their rapidly diminishing disposable income. A couple of friends of mine even pulled out of going to a Kings Of Leon gig in Dublin a while back because they just didn't have the cash when the date finally came 'round.

Most Corkonians/Cork-based people I know dream of driving into town for a major gig and being able to drive home within an hour afterwards.

I think they'll pull off a 5,000-capacity venue in Cork if they choose the acts playing there with care. Hopefully they have money to afford booking decent acts to start with as well.

Fuzz McG

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

I think they'll pull off a 5,000-capacity venue in Cork if they choose the acts playing there with care. Hopefully they have money to afford booking decent acts to start with as well.

Yeah it's a fair point. I suppose I just doubt the ability to do that consistently throughout the year. They can't even get enough decent acts to fill out the Marquee for two weeks straight.

Is it just a venue they're planning to build on the Beamish site or is there plans for other stuff too? I thought I'd heard they wanted to build a cinema/bar as well but I might be imagining things

draiochtanois

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Fuzz McG

draiochtanois wrote: »

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I've been to a lot of gigs in the Pav and 99% of the time they've sounded good to great. What gigs were you at where the sound was bad, out of interest?

Cyprus Avenue has gotten a lot better recently too. Been to less gigs in there though, I'd say.

draiochtanois

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Big Tone

Is Spiders gone? Used to be great craic, a fiver to get in and you'd get a watered down chicken supper! Don't suppose they do chicken suppers anymore?

It was great before with Night Owls, Norma Jeans, Bogarts, Chandras, The Village, Rickenbeckers Nite Club, Henrys, The Klondyke Bar, Club 33,...I suppose the late nite bars have killed the nightclub scene?

Used to be a cool scene years ago with places like Malibus which stayed open til 6am...there used to be a good few places, "wine bars", you'd go there when the nightclubs finished @ 3.30am...happy days.

I bet a lot has changed since then though..and not for the better either.

Dermighty

Big Tone wrote: »

Is Spiders gone? Used to be great craic, a fiver to get in and you'd get a watered down chicken supper! Don't suppose they do chicken suppers anymore?

It was great before with Night Owls, Norma Jeans, Bogarts, Chandras, The Village, Rickenbeckers Nite Club, Henrys, The Klondyke Bar, Club 33,...I suppose the late nite bars have killed the nightclub scene?

Used to be a cool scene years ago with places like Malibus which stayed open til 6am...there used to be a good few places, "wine bars", you'd go there when the nightclubs finished @ 3.30am...happy days.

I bet a lot has changed since then though..and not for the better either.

Right...

I have heard of one of the places you've mentioned. Indicating that they are all probably gone with about 15 years, in which case they're defunct and are not relevant to topic of conversation :P

Big Tone

Dermighty wrote: »

Right...

I have heard of one of the places you've mentioned. Indicating that they are all probably gone with about 15 years, in which case they're defunct and are not relevant to topic of conversation :P

Ah right, LOL...I just thought that Cork night life has gone stale since then..would you not agree? I mean, what places are open til 6 and 7am now?

Fuzz McG

Big Tone wrote: »

Ah right, LOL...I just thought that Cork night life has gone stale since then..would you not agree? I mean, what places are open til 6 and 7am now?

Nowhere in the country. That's government legislation for you.

If you're over the age of 33, everything was better 15 years ago

Balmed Out

Fuzz McG wrote: »

Nowhere in the country. That's government legislation for you.

If you're over the age of 33, everything was better 15 years ago

Im 33 and I only remember 3 of those.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Balmed Out

Yeah for about a year clubs used to hand out free food. Yould get some chips and a sausage in henrys.

Dermighty

Big Tone wrote: »

Ah right, LOL...I just thought that Cork night life has gone stale since then..would you not agree? I mean, what places are open til 6 and 7am now?

Regards those kind of closing hours...I would ask how many places in Ireland are open until that time (with the consent of Gardai rather than just chancing it. I'd say there's one anyway, but that's only because I don't want to rule it out.

Thank **** everywhere closes at 2, I'm a bouncer in Cork and not only do I have to deal with drunken assholes at work, but I also have to listen to them bellowing outside my windows before and after work.

EyeSight

Dermighty wrote: »

Regards those kind of closing hours...I would ask how many places in Ireland are open until that time (with the consent of Gardai rather than just chancing it. I'd say there's one anyway, but that's only because I don't want to rule it out.

Thank **** everywhere closes at 2, I'm a bouncer in Cork and not only do I have to deal with drunken assholes at work, but I also have to listen to them bellowing outside my windows before and after work.

if you chose to be a bouncer you should be prepared to deal with drunken people...

i think opening hours should be extended and varied. not only would pub/club/chippers profits increase but so would tourism. also there would not be as much violence on the street afterwards because at 2-2.30 you won't have every single person out on the street.

I do appreciate there are downsides to extending opening hours, but i think it should be open to debate. our government think all the answers to our drink problems lie with stricter rules and higher prices, but i disagree. i think attitudes should be changed instead

Fuzz McG

EyeSight wrote: »

our government think all the answers to our drink problems lie with stricter rules and higher prices, but i disagree. i think attitudes should be changed instead

I agree and I do think something should be tried. However I never bought these arguments of "that's how it's done in european countries" because the Irish have a very different attitude to drinking than most countries so I think that has to be taken into account. It's something that has to be tackled early on in education and parenting.

I don't think the current 'countdown' system works (i.e. everything has to close by 2am). The late license fee is extortionate as well considering you only get about one hour out of it. If they made it cheaper, smaller places would probably open till 2am as well and it wouldn't push everyone into 4 or 5 spots in the city centre.

Big Tone

Fuzz McG wrote: »

Nowhere in the country. That's government legislation for you.

If you're over the age of 33, everything was better 15 years ago

Yea, the place is gone backwards compared to the 70s and 80s...and we thought we were backward then?!

Chazz Michael Michaels

Great pubs in Cork. Nightclubs are for big girls blouses.

Man up.

Dermighty

EyeSight wrote: »

if you chose to be a bouncer you should be prepared to deal with drunken people...

i think opening hours should be extended and varied. not only would pub/club/chippers profits increase but so would tourism. also there would not be as much violence on the street afterwards because at 2-2.30 you won't have every single person out on the street.

I do appreciate there are downsides to extending opening hours, but i think it should be open to debate. our government think all the answers to our drink problems lie with stricter rules and higher prices, but i disagree. i think attitudes should be changed instead

Dealing with people in my job is a given, it's fairly ignorant and simplistic of you to suggest that my issues with public order stem from an inability to tolerate my job.

Dealing with a public order issue such as people roaring in the streets is not my job, nor is it acceptable. At the risk of being flamed I have to say that most people are respectable and well mannered, but many Irish people are definitely f*cking retarded assholes after drinking, I would comfortably say close to 100% of the people that are smashing bottles outside my house (I live in the city) and roaring/singing/fighting (verbal and physical) are Irish. I think that we don't need to make the drinking hours longer, I think we need to stop putting a focus on paying 15 quid to go into a flashy cave for two or three hours as the final lap of a race to get hammered or get a ride.

Owen

I agree with Dermighty, unfortunately about 40% of Irish people on a night out think it's acceptable to turn into a lout with drink on board. Shouting, roaring, and drinking faster and harder until 2 in the hopes of getting a ride or getting completely messed up. I'm Irish, and it's tough to watch.

On going out with friends of other Nationality, or going out in other Countries, you still have drink, get drunk, but it's a much more enjoyable sociable night.

Anyway, I don't have much of a night-life, I end up gigging most weekends, so disregard most of the above :pac:

EyeSight

Dermighty wrote: »

Dealing with people in my job is a given, it's fairly ignorant and simplistic of you to suggest that my issues with public order stem from an inability to tolerate my job.

Dealing with a public order issue such as people roaring in the streets is not my job, nor is it acceptable. At the risk of being flamed I have to say that most people are respectable and well mannered, but many Irish people are definitely f*cking retarded assholes after drinking, I would comfortably say close to 100% of the people that are smashing bottles outside my house (I live in the city) and roaring/singing/fighting (verbal and physical) are Irish. I think that we don't need to make the drinking hours longer, I think we need to stop putting a focus on paying 15 quid to go into a flashy cave for two or three hours as the final lap of a race to get hammered or get a ride.

you did mention having to deal with drunken assholes at work and having them out in the streets. it's your choice to be a bouncer and it comes with the job. if you claim it has nothing to do with your argument then why bother posting it?

while i also live in the city I have come to terms with the assholes smashing things etc. i think there are many perks to living in the city and this is one of the downsides. but i 100% agree with you that it shouldn't be tolerated.

I honestly think that while the drinking laws are too strict in this country, the punishments for the idiots who are causing the trouble are far too relaxed. harsher fines and more creative punishments should be handed out.
I know in some/all parts of the UK if you are brought into A&E for a drunk related incident(e.g. getting your stomach pumped) you get a warning and if it happens again you get a court date

Dermighty

EyeSight wrote: »

you did mention having to deal with drunken assholes at work and having them out in the streets. it's your choice to be a bouncer and it comes with the job. if you claim it has nothing to do with your argument then why bother posting it?

while i also live in the city I have come to terms with the assholes smashing things etc. i think there are many perks to living in the city and this is one of the downsides. but i 100% agree with you that it shouldn't be tolerated.

I honestly think that while the drinking laws are too strict in this country, the punishments for the idiots who are causing the trouble are far too relaxed. harsher fines and more creative punishments should be handed out.
I know in some/all parts of the UK if you are brought into A&E for a drunk related incident(e.g. getting your stomach pumped) you get a warning and if it happens again you get a court date

I agree with you, the laws regarding public order are not strict enough. I would go so far as to say that it is the lowest priority for the Gardai when 2am arrives (with accidents, drink driving, vandalism and violence being the most important). The Gardai in Cork are really lax when it comes to this sort of stuff, I've witnessed that as a customer of bars and as someone finishing work around 3am, many times we've had close to 1500 people in the street and the Gardai only arrive when they've dispersed, even though they're all singing and shouting (a few hundred people singing is really loud!). I'm not posting to simply complain about things like this, just want to highlight it from my perspective.

I'm sure we have all had a few sleepless nights due to people making noise, for me it's a product of where I live, I sleep soundly most nights but every so often (mainly students) it's almost unbearable.

Balmed Out

When the pub hours were extended by an hour all that happened was pubs began to fill up at nine instead of 8. Extend them again and itll be the same story later start time.

Fuzz McG

Balmed Out wrote: »

When the pub hours were extended by an hour all that happened was pubs began to fill up at nine instead of 8. Extend them again and itll be the same story later start time.

Not necessarily. A lot of people go home after normal pub hours (1am). Some choose to stay out later. I don't think a lot of people would be up for staying up till 6am drinking, even on a Saturday. Bar the young folk and, well, alcoholics.:D

Dermighty

Fuzz McG wrote: »

I don't think a lot of people would be up for staying up till 6am drinking, even on a Saturday. Bar the young folk and, well, alcoholics.:D

From a bar workers perspective:

From my experience, the higher the age limit on the door the less hassle there is inside and the more money people spend. Young people are the ones that spend the least (relatively speaking) and cause the most hassle. So an extension of hours would most likely cause more hassle than it's worth. Many, many bars would need extra security or extra security shifts in addition to changing their entire business model from an 11-2 operation to an 11-6 operation, this costs the bars more and to be honest I doubt the costs would be repaid for all but the biggest bars.

That's just a potential outcome, in my opinion.

Solair

Gamb!t wrote: »

Another Sir Henry's type nightclub you say ?
I for one was delighted when that kip closed.

I don't remember Sir Henry's in its heyday but, I was around for its last year or so and it was an absolute hole of a place at that stage. You could see through the floor (due to the gaping holes) and that was about 3 stories up!

I'd say if it hadn't closed when it did, there was a fair chance it could have literally fallen down.

I'd agree though for someone in his late 20s, Cork is pretty boring in terms of night life at the moment.

I'm happily attached, and not going out 'on the pull' but, it's nice to be able to have a decent night out now and again and it's something I find you cannot really do in Cork anymore. In fact, Dublin's night life's even pretty dry compared to what it used to be.

I don't think it's my age, rather that there just isn't the kind of money around that there used to be a few years ago. The venues are just not as full as they used to be an a lot of the fun people have emigrated too.

I also feel that if you're in your late 20s/30s then Cork just has nothing for you at all in terms of night life other than pubs that can be fairly unexciting.

Myself and the other-half find we end up going out for meals a lot these days due to there being f*** all else to do!