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Advice for the cost of new build 2012

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  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭rebelden


    Eagerly wait for these house plans to be displayed like a few more people on this discussion forum. I sure all opinions are welcome.
    poor uncle tom a bit of light hearted humour I don’t believe hurt anyone particularly for the times we live in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    poor uncle tom a bit of light hearted humour I don’t believe hurt anyone particularly for the times we live in.
    :D
    /got a little mixed up there, did you?
    /don't know your muffler from your uncle tom...:p


  • Registered Users Posts: 46,128 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    :D
    /got a little mixed up there, did you?
    /don't know your muffler from your uncle tom...:p
    muffler = good
    muffled = not so good


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Nryan82


    IMG_0649.JPG This is what my living area will look like. ground floor.


    IMG_0650.JPG - ground floor layout


    IMG_0651.JPG - first floor layout.


    not sure if they will come out on this but i did the best i could. :}


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Nryan82


    the first picture is a general idea wat it will look like, as in the layout..im not havin the same kitchen, island etc, but will have the windows floor to ceiling at the back which one will be a sliding one to open out onto my back garden. i know its basic but its exactly what i wanted and ive loadsa storage in my walk in hotpress upstairs and loadsa room in my walk in wardrope. :D


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Nryan82 wrote: »
    the first picture is a general idea wat it will look like, as in the layout..im not havin the same kitchen, island etc, but will have the windows floor to ceiling at the back which one will be a sliding one to open out onto my back garden. i know its basic but its exactly what i wanted and ive loadsa storage in my walk in hotpress upstairs and loadsa room in my walk in wardrope. :D
    Wheres South? check regs on downstairs wc and maybe risers floor t floor


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Nryan82


    I no my builder told me, but god it's gone out my head with south, north,east, west...but I no the sun rises to the front of my house and orbits around the left hand side of my house and sets at the back where the floor to ceiling windows will be. Wat do u mean check regs for the toilet downstairs?. Surely there shouldn't be a problem with it??....and maybe risers floor t floor ...?????


  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭New build in sight


    This is completely and utterly my own opinion (I am not an export, so no doubt you will get more experienced replies) but I feel I should suggest to you that flipping the house would'nt be the worst idea, having the sun in the kitchen in the morning and the living areas in the evening would...again in my opinion be more suitable. I would always love nice sunlight at breakfast and again at dinner, if you know what i mean.... you're builder doesnt sound like he is making the most of the afternoon sun as you have only one small window on the wall that will see the sun for most of the day, if you're correct in what you have written in your post. I would try to incorporate some windows on the left wall, or even perhaps putting the floor lenght windows/doors to the left rather than the back, if this is possible for you regarding gardens etc.

    This is honestly just my immediate thoughts, the plans look great though and upstairs I really like, in fact I love the walk through wardrobe. Really nice idea. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Nryan82


    That's mental, new on site, ur the third person to suggest that too me, including the builders wife...:P...they all said the same to me in regards to the sunlight and tryin to gain the most I can...I don't know why, maybe it's because that's the way most houses have been for years but I always thought the kitchen should be in the back of a house!!!!..maybe I should change my thinkin..I just think it would look weird to walk in to a house and the first room be a kitchen...but now I'm not so sure cause I no wat ur sayin and it makes sense..my builder and his wife also did suggest that about havin the full length windows at the side where the sun orbits but the thing is, there is a house beside me on that side and what's between us is a ditch....I thought to myself, is that what I want to be lookin out at for the rest of my life or to be looking out at a nice garden patio etc...do you know what I mean?..would you still put the full length window along the side? I don't know what to do now..:(


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Nryan82


    Also, if I did switch the kitchen to the front and have the living area to the back....where would I put my utility?..leave it where it is?


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Nryan82 wrote: »
    That's mental, new on site, ur the third person to suggest that too me, ...I don't know why, maybe it's because that's the way most houses have been for years but I always thought the kitchen should be in the back of a house!!!!..I don't know what to do now..:(
    Will ya just go and get an architect!


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Nryan82


    :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Nryan82


    Ya I could...and drop the builder...then I'm back to square one and who's to say the architect would be any gud?....not wasting time going looking for a good ne with a reasonable price...already got a quote as I said earlier of ten grand...enough said. Thanks for the advice neway. C ya.


  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭New build in sight


    OK I understand your dilema, I probably wouldnt want to be looking at the neighbours through large patio doors. Maybe add additional windows on the left wall instead of large ceiling to floor ones. I wouldnt/couldnt justify the cost of large external patio doors for no gain from the sun. The real reason, most people want as much daylight getting into the house all day is that it reduces your heating costs. We actually have no windows at all on our north wall, deliberately. And we have a sun room on the side that gets the sun all day.
    I dont think it is a major issue, and as for the utility, i have this room as a completely seperate room in our house off the hallway, i see no advantage in having the utility room off the kitchen. In my opinion i dont want anyone seeing my washing room :) I would imagine by suggesting these things to your builder he will guide you for a more successful plan that will work for you. Again this plan may in fact work perfectly well for you but you would regret it if you didnt at least explore alternatives just in case.....
    :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Nryan82


    Ya I think I'll have a chat with him again and suggest abut having another window on the left hand wall, or have a long window along the wall where the kitchen will be, that will be looking out at a ditch but suppose what I can I do?..I won't sleep tonight now with all the decisions going on in my head..haha. It's all I think about neway to be honest.!!!..I agree with the utility situation..my friend just said the same thing too. Doesn't matter where it is. Ya I no what ur sayin about gaining more sunlight in order to use less heating, oil etc...makes sense neway in the long run and I don't wanna have any regrets later so really appreciate ur input, I'm defo takin it on board..:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭HoofRocks


    just a quick question about the plans you have and plans like that in general.

    Are they detailed enough to get a tender and price the job or is it because your builder designed them he dosn't need more detail?

    The only reason I ask is because we have a set of plans similar to that but I thought they wouldn't be detailed enough to begin tendering?


  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭New build in sight


    Nryan82 wrote: »
    Ya I think I'll have a chat with him again and suggest abut having another window on the left hand wall, or have a long window along the wall where the kitchen will be, that will be looking out at a ditch but suppose what I can I do?..I won't sleep tonight now with all the decisions going on in my head..haha. It's all I think about neway to be honest.!!!..I agree with the utility situation..my friend just said the same thing too. Doesn't matter where it is. Ya I no what ur sayin about gaining more sunlight in order to use less heating, oil etc...makes sense neway in the long run and I don't wanna have any regrets later so really appreciate ur input, I'm defo takin it on board..:)


    You poor thing, I know exactly how you feel, but you must remember these are your first draft so it can be changed. Its good that you are askign for some advice, we first went for planning about 5 years ago and I am secretly happy we were refused as the plans that we have today completely differ from what we would of built back 5 years ago!

    Is it possible for you to add a side extension on the left hand side with a row of roof windows along the top like this picture i found on google images? At least that way you are not overlooking your neighbours and you will have a beautiful room well lit all day. A kitchen settled in here would look amazing. Then you could have the lounge area to the back of the house... what do you think? Is that something that is possible?
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTe8YfZy6PWGlJ6uRYwmJy96luOS_Hqa-Bt8CxNpII_1vnUV-x5


  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭New build in sight


    HoofRocks wrote: »
    just a quick question about the plans you have and plans like that in general.

    Are they detailed enough to get a tender and price the job or is it because your builder designed them he dosn't need more detail?

    The only reason I ask is because we have a set of plans similar to that but I thought they wouldn't be detailed enough to begin tendering?

    Our plans are plain enough too, our's were done by an Architect too. They have been detailed enough for us to obtain quotes etc. But some have come back to us questioning head height and some queries on CAD drawings. But all have come back with quite a specific quote so they shouldnt be a problem, once you are clear on your specifications and finish.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭archtech


    I would strongly advise that you engage an architect or architectural technologist/technician. Obtain 3 quotations and insist they met you on site, you will get better value than you have been quoted in the past.

    Looking at the kitchen layout as drawn, I can assume you will hate it, if you use the kitchen at all, the table will end up been used as an island unit. I don't think its really wide enough to achieve what you have in mind in the attached photo.

    In terms of compliance with building regulations, based on the drawings, you will struggle to achieve compliance with Part L. The external walls are only 300mm, with is in sufficient these days. You need to either get a provisional BER done or get someone (architect, architectural technologist/technician, passive house designer etc) to review the proposals and and you of what you need to to to achieve compliance. It will be too late when the house is built to discover these issues. Your downstairs wc certainly looks as if it wouldn't comply.


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Nryan82


    Is it possible for you to add a side extension on the left hand side with a row of roof windows along the top like this picture i found on google images? At least that way you are not overlooking your neighbours and you will have a beautiful room well lit all day. A kitchen settled in here would look amazing. Then you could have the lounge area to the back of the house... what do you think? Is that something that is possible?
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTe8YfZy6PWGlJ6uRYwmJy96luOS_Hqa-Bt8CxNpII_1vnUV-x5


    I love that idea in the picture...I will def show that to my builder, that would have sunlight in all day. Thanks new build on site..:)..I would still love to have my big windows lookin out onto my yard tho..;)..we'll see what'll happen sure.


    Hoof rocks. The plans I have, which I showed on this are just a rough sketch up...there just for me to see if I'm happy with everything etc..when I am happy, he will then be puttin more detail in for tendering etc, but not a lot. I've a.ready got another quote from another Builder with what I have. :)


    Arch tect...(I take it by ur username u are an architect?) so I understand ur prob annoyed or frustrated with me doing this through a builder, which I can understand. Can u explain a few things to me though. First of all U said "if i use my kitchen at all"....OF COURSE im goin to be using my kitchen!!!!...who doesnt use a kitchen...Why do u think I will hate my kitchen? I have work space also on
    the right hand side of it and the table is not nessicarly going to be where it is on the kitchen, my builder just put things in to show me what I COULD do. I can have an island there if I want when it's done and have a nice fold away table below it. It's all up to me but I dnt think I'll hate it. I have googled many 'one wall' kitchens and have seen fabulous ones. I think nearly 15 ft wide is plenty big but of course if I had more room I would go wider. I don't have a huge site, in fact it's very small if u saw it so I'm tryin to get in the best I can. What mm should the external walls be? I can say this to him once I know? I assume so the BER test should be done or has to be done before any building takes place ya?
    And can yu tell me exactly what is wrong with the downstairs toilet?. Thanks arch tect..:)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Nryan82


    Oh, new build on site, it's not possible to build that pic u sent as an extension to the side as I wudnt have the room, but I thinkin could he do that over the kitchen as it is now?..let's hope so.:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭archtech


    Nryan82 wrote: »
    .I've a.ready got another quote from another Builder with what I have.

    that's a dangerous game getting another builder to price off another builders plans. Its all the more reason to get an independent professional that way you have no ties to any one individual builder when it comes to construction.

    Arch tect...(I take it by ur username u are an architect?) so I understand ur prob annoyed or frustrated with me doing this through a builder, which I can understand.

    I'm an architectural technologist actually, but that doesn't really matter, what I'm doing is sharing my experience as a designer.
    Can u explain a few things to me though. First of all U said "if i use my kitchen at all"....OF COURSE im goin to be using my kitchen!!!!...who doesnt use a kitchen...Why do u think I will hate my kitchen? I have work space also on the right hand side of it and the table is not nessicarly going to be where it is on the kitchen, my builder just put things in to show me what I COULD do. I can have an island there if I want when it's done and have a nice fold away table below it. It's all up to me but I dnt think I'll hate it. I have googled many 'one wall' kitchens and have seen fabulous ones. I think nearly 15 ft wide is plenty big but of course if I had more room I would go wider.
    A lot of alteration projects I've been involved in, have revolved around poorly designed kitchen spaces in the first place. The layout as shown in terms of amount of kitchen unit works, however with the table in the middle of between both sets of units, the design is disjointed and the table will end up as an island unit. You will struggle to accommodate a "one" wall kitchen and island unit and table in the width you have. To illustrate. The Kitchen wall counter unit in 2' ( more if american style fridge is been accommodated) you need ideally a minimum of 4' between the wall units and an island unit. Your Island unit will be 3' give or take, which leaves in the order 6' to fit a table and circulation space either side of the table. A typical table is in the order of 2.5' wide so not a whole lot left... its beginning to feel like a poorly designed developer semi-d.
    I don't have a huge site, in fact it's very small if u saw it so I'm tryin to get in the best I can.
    All the more reason to get a good designer, a good designer will full fill your brief and work within the constrains of the site.

    What mm should the external walls be? I can say this to him once I know?
    That depends on the overall strategy to achieve compliance with Part L of the building regulations. Heating systems, renewables, air tightness, thermal bridging are just a few things that have an impact on how much or how little insulation you require to achieve compliance. What I would say the better you insulate the less it will cost to heat the house long term. I normally aim for a u-value of 0.15w/m2k in walls, (which would normally require a wall thickness of in the order of 450-500mm but that's dependent on a number of factors).
    I assume so the BER test should be done or has to be done before any building takes place ya?
    By law you only need a BER on completion/occupation of the house, until you are buying a house off the plans. However that said with the current Part L, it is advisable to have the house evaluated in DEAP (that's the BER software) to ensure the design can achieve compliance.
    And can yu tell me exactly what is wrong with the downstairs toilet?.
    Its dimensions appear to be insufficient nor it the layout ideal.

    At the end of the day its your choice what you do but remember experience = knowledge learnt from (others) mistakes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 46,128 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Couple of points:

    As pointed out the ground floor wc in its present layout will not comply with Part M
    The external walls are wrong thickness to comply with Part L.
    Id suggest taking a foot of the width of the front hall and landing and add to rooms either side.

    Is your builder/designer competent in designing and constructing in accordance with the building regulations? Is he in a position to issue all relevant certs at the end of the job?

    One strong recommendation is to ensure that the builder does not recommend or engage the arch/engineer/technician who will be inspecting the works.

    As others have said its in your own interest to employ someone who has the expertise in both design and ensuring compliance with building regs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Nryan82


    i am getting my own engineer muffler to look at my plans and also to sign off. he is not familar with my builder at all. i don't understand what you mean when u say "comply with part M ? what is part M?. and that the walla are not thick enough to comply with part L ?. What is part L?. Sorry im not up to date with the lingo!!!...i have already made the hall narrower to make my living area wider. dont think i can go any more but i think 15 ft is wide enough no?. I have been in downstairs toilets ALOT smaller than my one..i still dont see the problem with it or its layout.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,645 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    And can yu tell me exactly what is wrong with the downstairs toilet?.

    1. a wheelchair user cannot enter it and close the door behind them, the door swing doesnt allow this

    2. a wheelchair user cannot enter and dismount from the wheelchair sideways onto the toliet.. .the layout doesnt allow for this. There needs to be a 750 x 1200 clear space adjacent to the toilet.

    the room needs to be a minimum of 1400 deep;
    the toilet pan should be against the back wall;
    a 750 x 1200 space should be adjacent to it, in front of the door.
    the door should open out into the hall.

    edit: if you have been in smaller its most probably because either
    (a) the regs didnt apply at the time of build
    (b) the floor area is small enough to warrant a smaller wc. (under 45 sq m)
    (c) someone didnt know what they were supposed to do



    On the layout in general, its not very family friendly.
    The living room is too small....compare it to the GF study ;)
    The living space off the kitchen is basically a corridor from the front door to the kitchen, you cant lay this out without thinking of people walking through it. The door to this space is too close to the stove in my opinion.
    The kitchen doesn't reflect the picture that you've posted. Your room is way too narrow to be like this. I would estimate the picture is about 1.5 to 2.0 meters wider. In the picture the kitchen is more organised... the units and the island are located together. in the design, the units are spit across the room with a table between... not very user friendly at all.
    It may make more sense to include an island and move the table towards the utility. this would allow you to move the access door to this space from its current location in the living space, to access direct into the kitchen. this allows you a more organised living space which isnt a corridor.

    i dont understand why there is roof lights in the ff bathroom and ward. is there not enough height here for windows? If there is full height, then how do you open the roof light in the bathroom? remote control?

    some door swings are weird, but thats just a drawing error i would think....


  • Registered Users Posts: 46,128 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Nryan82 wrote: »
    i am getting my own engineer muffler to look at my plans and also to sign off. he is not familar with my builder at all. i don't understand what you mean when u say "comply with part M ? what is part M?. and that the walla are not thick enough to comply with part L ?. What is part L?. Sorry im not up to date with the lingo!!!...i have already made the hall narrower to make my living area wider. dont think i can go any more but i think 15 ft is wide enough no?. I have been in downstairs toilets ALOT smaller than my one..i still dont see the problem with it or its layout.
    You see the above comments are a good illustration of why you need a "professional" involved.

    There are building regulations in this country. Not only does the house have to be built in accordance with those regulations but the design/plans/spec. will have to comply also.

    Just to explain - the building regs are broken down into 12 separate categories from A - M so when you see someone say that a particular aspect of your house will not comply with Part L as an example then you need to familiarise yourself with what Part L is.

    Have a look here


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Nryan82


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    1. a wheelchair user cannot enter it and close the door behind them, the door swing doesnt allow this

    2. a wheelchair user cannot enter and dismount from the wheelchair sideways onto the toliet.. .the layout doesnt allow for this. There needs to be a 750 x 1200 clear space adjacent to the toilet.

    the room needs to be a minimum of 1400 deep;
    the toilet pan should be against the back wall;
    a 750 x 1200 space should be adjacent to it, in front of the door.
    the door should open out into the hall.

    edit: if you have been in smaller its most probably because either
    (a) the regs didnt apply at the time of build
    (b) the floor area is small enough to warrant a smaller wc. (under 45 sq m)
    (c) someone didnt know what they were supposed to do



    On the layout in general, its not very family friendly.
    The living room is too small....compare it to the GF study ;)
    The living space off the kitchen is basically a corridor from the front door to the kitchen, you cant lay this out without thinking of people walking through it. The door to this space is too close to the stove in my opinion.
    The kitchen doesn't reflect the picture that you've posted. Your room is way too narrow to be like this. I would estimate the picture is about 1.5 to 2.0 meters wider. In the picture the kitchen is more organised... the units and the island are located together. in the design, the units are spit across the room with a table between... not very user friendly at all.
    It may make more sense to include an island and move the table towards the utility. this would allow you to move the access door to this space from its current location in the living space, to access direct into the kitchen. this allows you a more organised living space which isnt a corridor.

    i dont understand why there is roof lights in the ff bathroom and ward. is there not enough height here for windows? If there is full height, then how do you open the roof light in the bathroom? remote control?

    some door swings are weird, but thats just a drawing error i would think....


    thats great info finally about the toilet..thats exactly what i was looking for..someone to explain why its not good. i will take note of all that and explain to my builder.thanks so much.
    with regards to my smaller sittin room on the right, i wanted it nice and small, its basically just to ave another room for me and my friends to go or my boyfriend and his friends to go, once again, i don't have a lot of space on the site so am doin the best i can. i don't see my living area as a corridor to my kitchen. its goin to be a room of itself. i love the open plan idea and this is what it will be..not a corridor. i understand ye have yer opinions but in mine i dont feel it too be too narrow as i measured it myself and it seems to be wide enough, for me neway. once again the picture i put up ere is just a general idea. and in my opinion i think the kitchen in it is not at all long eough. there is hardly any work stop space if you zoom into it. i don't like it at all. in order to have my floor to ceiling windows lookin out over my garden and to gain sunlight this is the way the kitchen has to be be as i can't go around the corner or i cant have the long windows..simple as that. i wanted more worktop space ie. i have more worktop space adjacent to the kitchen.
    the stove won't be beside the door, i can move it up further. my builder just put the bits n pieces in to make it look real. i dnt have to have anything where it is in the picture.
    i ma havin a window in the upstairs toilet not a velux. thats another thing that has to be changed by the builder. once again my plans are a ROUGH idea. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Nryan82


    also the other room will be a bedroom..not a study. ill have to put walkdrobes etc in there...thats why its bigger than the sitting room.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,645 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Nryan82 wrote: »
    i love the open plan idea and this is what it will be..not a corridor. i understand ye have yer opinions but in mine i dont feel it too be too narrow as i measured it myself and it seems to be wide enough, for me neway.

    thats fine, i can only comment how i see it. It still means everyone who wants to go from the front door to the kitchen (probably the most used route) will be going through your living space.

    Nryan82 wrote: »
    and in my opinion i think the kitchen in it is not at all long eough. there is hardly any work stop space if you zoom into it. i don't like it at all. in order to have my floor to ceiling windows lookin out over my garden and to gain sunlight this is the way the kitchen has to be be as i can't go around the corner or i cant have the long windows..simple as that. i wanted more worktop space ie. i have more worktop space adjacent to the kitchen.

    well i wouldnt compromise here, id keep at the design until you get what you want.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Nryan82


    Yes I understand that's what it will mean, but anyone who will be coming into my house would be goin into them two rooms regardless, and I love the open plan style so that's why I have it like that. Thanks for the advice though.and I will certainly stay goin until I get it right. :)


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