Listed cottage for first time buyers - advice gratefully accepted

Son0vagun

Hello.

We are first time buyers and We recently started to look for a house. We are looking for a small cottage with a bit of land in the region on 120k to 150k. And today we viewed a prefect property.

A small rural two story 90k cottage, that needs 30k of work done. When I started to look for a house I always imagined finding a house that was ready to live in and just needed a personal touch. But this cottage needs a lot of work. It need new electric, new plumbing, new floors, new windows, new doors, ect ect you get the picture.

But along with the total refurb the cottage comes with other issues/problems.

It's a listed building.

There is a issue with the deeds regarding ownership to the garden. The aerial photo shows part of the garden is owned by the OPW. But we have been told that this is close to being resolved and that the OPW have no problem signing it over to the owers of said property. As it is, no solititor will sign anything to do this this cottage.

We spoke to our bank in regards to getting a mortgage to cover the cost of the property and the cost of the refurb. They will only do this if the refurb will add to the price of the house and that it's value would then be more they the value of the mortgage! So this involves hiring a surveyor to evalulate the property and price of refurb. However, we won't do that till the problem with the garden is resolved.

So has anyone on here done what i will have to do? And what have your experiances been? As a first time buyer i am nervous about entering into such a venture. Would there be risks involved?

pawnacide

Son0vagun wrote: »

Hello.


So has anyone on here done what i will have to do? And what have your experiances been? As a first time buyer i am nervous about entering into such a venture. Would there be risks involved?

Yes there are risks, the main risk is this OPW business, who says OPW has no problem .. wait till its resolved coz no one else is likely to buy it either. Other than that it's fairly straight forward .. you'll need a survey for the bank, a builder for an accurate quote on the works needed (don't skip the builder .. this is the most important step of all) and a valuer to give you a value on the completed works, valuer might wanna see drawings and specs but an engineer or draughtsman might be cheaper than an architect to get these done. I'm assuming you're not adding to the existing structure btw.

EDIT : Make sure the builder giving the quote understands that it's a listed building and includes any restoration or special requirements in his quote.

BTW .. Why is it listed and can you get it delisted ?

StillWaters

I really don't think you will do all that work for €30k. On a standard house it sounds more like 50k, and from friends experiences, if it's listed, double that.

If you adore the house, you will need an Architect with experience of listed buildings, preferably locally. And deep pockets.

The issue with the opw would I imagine make the property unmortgeable until resolved. I'm sorry, but my advice would be to keep looking.

killers1

I'd tend to agree with StillWaters and certainly wouldn't be spending a cent until the legal issue regarding the garden is satisfied. Banks don't like lending where a solicitor is looking to put qualifications on the title.

Victor

How are you calculating the €30,000?

The inherent optimism in such ventures suggest you should add 100% to that.

You will need planning permission.

Son0vagun

Structurally the cottage in 100%. And in fairly good condition. It's roof is 15yrs old so that's not a problem. From what I see to make it liveable, it will need...

Total re-wire
Total new plumbing
Downstairs floor removed and relaid.
Up stairs floor removed and relaid.
New stairway
New doors
A kitchen
Maybe new windows.

The Agent estimated 30k

The only way to surely know is to get a surveyor in. How much does one usually cost?

BTW thank you to everyone who replied.

foxinsox

I would agree with some of the posts already mentioning maybe this isn't the one for you..

Just to bear in mind:

In a listed building you can be tied to what sort of work you can carry out..

Windows: may have to be custom made to fit and also may have to be made from same wood as original = €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€

Roof: I know you said roof looks ok but listed buildings may have to be slated using reclaimed slates, same as original, grants are available but still = €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€

You also mentioned new doors, you may have to replace to original design and material or repair existing.

In Dublin anyway if a building is listed you are not supposed to make any alterations (inc interior painting) without permission from the relevant authorities.

Don't want to bust your dream, but please look into every aspect of a listed building before making any offer.

Best of luck

earlyevening

Son0vagun wrote: »

The Agent estimated 30k

The agent will say anything to make the sale. Definitely double that estimate.

Son0vagun

Son0vagun wrote: »

Structurally the cottage in 100%. And in fairly good condition. It's roof is 15yrs old so that's not a problem. From what I see to make it liveable, it will need...

Total re-wire
Total new plumbing
Downstairs floor removed and relaid.
Up stairs floor removed and relaid.
New stairway
New doors
A kitchen
Maybe new windows.

The Agent estimated 30k

The only way to surely know is to get a surveyor in. How much does one usually cost?

BTW thank you to everyone who replied.

You'd need a structural survey and then a quantity surveyor - about 500 each I'd say, but open to correction..

Even with a completely solid shell and roof, this sounds like a very expensive undertaking.

Total new plumbing - does that include outside groundworks & where is the septic tank or would you need to install a new one or a biocycle? Also, central heating..
All new elecs.. alarm, outside lights, power to biocycle.
Windows - have to keep to originals with listed buildings so extremely expensive to refurbish or replace
Floors relaid etc..

Sounds more like 90K + to me but hope I'm wrong if it's 'the one'

Just to say, we've done something similar in the past and even with tight control, the budget on old places can run away with itself - even 100% 'solid' shells have their issues when it comes to insulation, adhering to fire regs etc.

Victor

What does the BER cert say? You don't seem to have thought of potential insulation or damp issues.

Son0vagun wrote: »

The only way to surely know is to get a surveyor in. How much does one usually cost?

A general condition survey - €200-300. Valuation for bank €100-150. Outline specification for works and preparation of budget - €500+.

If its all the same person, perhaps a little less.

the_syco

Son0vagun wrote: »

The Agent estimated 30k

Some agents would tell people that the moon is pink, has legs, and sings Beethoven to his pet dinosaur if it meant that they'd get a sale.

Son0vagun wrote: »

It's a listed building.

Son0vagun wrote: »

Total re-wire
Total new plumbing
Downstairs floor removed and relaid.
Up stairs floor removed and relaid.
New stairway
New doors
A kitchen
Maybe new windows.

Listed building can mean "everything stays the way it looks now". Which means no extensions, no messing with internal walls, if it's thatched it will need to be re-thatched (very costly). Oh, and you'll find rewiring a wall when you can't punch a hole in it to bring up a wire to be unsightly. That's if you even get an electrician who'll even touch the house with a bargepole! An aunt owns a listed cottage. It was cheaper to build a new house 10 meters down the road than to continue to live in the current house and thatch it every few years. Not being able to add an extension or mash an internal wall down to make the kitchen bigger was another deciding factor into the move.

Son0vagun wrote: »

The aerial photo shows part of the garden is owned by the OPW. But we have been told that this is close to being resolved and that the OPW have no problem signing it over to the owers of said property. As it is, no solititor will sign anything to do this this cottage.

Find out why the OPW had the land in the first place, and you may find how true that tall tale is. Heck, the land may have a piece of heritage on/in it... which would mean you never getting the land.

mikom

Son0vagun wrote: »

Total re-wire
Total new plumbing
Downstairs floor removed and relaid.
Up stairs floor removed and relaid.
New stairway
New doors
A kitchen
Maybe new windows.

The Agent estimated 30k

Sounds cheap.
Send him over my way as I have a new kitchen that needs putting in.

riclad

Look around the area ,are there not cottages not listed ,maybe 150k, that dont need major repairs, its a buyers market out there.
if roof is thatched i,d say just move on.
Sounds like you are just buying a shell,, almost everything has to fixed ,or replaced.
i dont think you,ll have a problem getting rewiring done,just because its an old building ,it maybe abit more expensive than a standard
semi d.

Son0vagun

Thanks for all the replies guys. Sounds like a hell of a lot of work/stress and worry. We think it's time to move on and keep looking for our dream house.

So thanks again for helping up make up our minds.

flutered

Son0vagun wrote: »

The Agent estimated 30k

There is where you are mistaken, that quote was to get you to sign, get a quote, also do you have any friends or neighbours relations etc who woud do most of the work at reasonable costs for you, a contractor will have 30% on top for himself.

Victor

flutered wrote: »

There is where you are mistaken, that quote was to get you to sign, get a quote, also do you have any friends or neighbours relations etc who woud do most of the work at reasonable costs for you,

This can actually end up costing more than you save.

a contractor will have 30% on top for himself.

Not in this market.

Cuddlesworth

I worked on a refurb of a listed building once. Six months of a pure nightmare. Everything in this thread is spot on, you would be looking at close to 100k. If all goes well and it never does.

Son0vagun

In case anyone is interested here is said cottage.

www.daft.ie/1524385

the_syco

Son0vagun wrote: »

In case anyone is interested here is said cottage.

www.daft.ie/1524385

I'd actually wonder when it was made "listed", and was that extension put in before or after? And as the extension looks right ugly I'd wonder just how legally it was attached on.

amdublin

Son0vagun wrote: »

In case anyone is interested here is said cottage.

www.daft.ie/1524385

Yes it's adorable.

But walk away. Walk away now. Complete money pit. And stress.

StillWaters

I can see the appeal. It has oodles of potential. Its one for cash buyers only with pots of readies I'm afraid.

You could buy now, it seems liveable in, and spend every spare cent and thought for the next 10 years to make it into the house you want it to be. For me, meh, life is too short.

That porch alone is a bloody good argument for tight planning control regarding structures of importance!

Agree with above, it looks beautiful, has that chocolate box kind of appeal
Defo say minimum 100K though.

Just out of curiosity, is that a planning notice on the gate to the right?


It doesn't appear here, is it very recently listed?
http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/highlights.jsp?county=LH