Good quality meat?

Stove Fan

Hi,

Well, we went to the butcher today and it was lovely!! We bought a pork loin joint which we are having tomorrow:) It Irish pork so should be good from the comments here:D

It was very clean and new. They sold pinks potatoes but that was all. I haven't seen king edwards or maris piper here but will pop into our local greengrocer and ask. He seems to do seasonal local grown veg:)

I do like my food but was never a great fan of beef as a child. I know the health risks now are zero but it simply doesn't appeal.

I much prefer chicken or pork:)

Stove Fan:)

Cardinal Richelieu

aidan24326 wrote: »

Stove fan, for someone that obviously likes his food you have some strange and misguided ideas about meat.

The hygiene levels in a decent butcher shop will be as least as good as for how your supermarket meat has been handled, and is likely to be fresher.

The mad cow thing was years ago, and different rules and regulations apply now. Not eating beef for fear of the mad cow situation is comepletely irrational. The chance of contracting cjd from a good piece of Irish beef right now is effectively zero. There has not been one single case of it. You'd be twice as likely to get struck by lightning.

Also, if potatoes are turning to mush, maybe you're overboiling them? Buy a good quality potato like maris piper or king edward, or even roosters or kerrs pink would suffice, and if you cook them right they shouldn't turn to mush at all. Find a good butcher to buy proper meat and you'll find there's a fair chance he sells bags of decent quality spuds aswell.

Whats wrong with Irish potatoes?

amandausa

Glad you found a good butcher, hope it works out for you!

I agree with all the comments suggesting the butcher route... I just moved here last year and found an excellent butcher in my neighborhood... I ask lots of questions and he always takes the time to explain, is able to order anything I would like, throws in extra things (I tend to get large orders) and even delivered a couple of chickens and some veg when I was home sick and had a hankering for homemade soup! So, the point is if you can find a good butcher who is passionate about his business, you will be very happy with your meat here!

Dermighty

Butcher > Supermarket!

Regards minced beef, just look at the colour difference between Tesco mince and mince from a butcher. It's ridiculously bad in Tesco. Also, just go into a butcher and pick steaks you want and get them to mince them.

Regards chicken, chicken fillets are about a tenner for 4 fillets in Tesco, the English Market in Cork has 10 for 11 euro in some butchers!

the groutch

I've always hated this "Supermarket Bad, Butcher Good" generalisation.
There will always be good and bad with both supermarkets and butchers in terms of quality.
And hygiene is also very important imo. There are some butchers you'd walk into and walk straight back out, as would you be seriously put off by the likes of "Salmonella corner" in Tesco.

Mr.David

Asda?

Are you kidding me?

:rolleyes:

Stove Fan

Well we had our pork loin joint today as a roast dinner and it was very tender and delicious:) The best meat we have bought here.

We will definately be buying all our meat from him:D

Stove Fan:)

rubadub

One reason why a supermarket might have fresher meat is the butcher/servers may have no real vested interest in the profits. i.e. if it is out of date they will have no qualms throwing it out as they are following company policy and any loss is not coming out of their pocket. While a small butcher throwing out meat is in effect throwing his own money out, or a junior staff member is still throwing out meat/profit of the owner who he probably knows well.

My tesco skimp on refrigeration, milk is not cold enough for me to drink from their fridge and I have had chicken just beginning to smell even though it was well in date.

Darkginger wrote: »

You can usually tell a good butcher by the quality of the meat on display, the number of customers in the shop (a high turnover implies freshness, I like to think)

+1 I like to see lots of customers, its the same with chippers for the previous reason I gave, I can't imagine a chipper owner throwing food out too readily, while staff in mcdonalds have the food on timers and have no problem tossing it out.

I also usually stick to offers which are going to be selling well, like 10 chicken fillets for €10, while the other boned fillets might be sitting around a lot longer.

Dermighty wrote: »

Regards minced beef, just look at the colour difference between Tesco mince and mince from a butcher.

This was one of the stories I heard, the ex-butcher saying they mixed in red dye to cover the high fat content and colour the pork mince they were blending in with beef.

Cedrus

rubadub wrote: »

One reason why a supermarket might have fresher meat is the butcher/servers may have no real vested interest in the profits.............................................................................................

Supermarkets do tend to have fresher meat and that is the problem, red meats need to be aged for proper flavour, beef should be hung for at least 3 weeks, pork, lamb and younger animals for a lot less. The supermarket chains don't have or want the storage capacity or level of oversight to do this properly.

Conversely poultry should be fresh but the centralised distribution model that the supermarkets use delays the delivery to the customer, the 'use by date' on a chicken is legally set at 21 days after packing but the bird could have been slaughtered a day or two before that which is way longer than a butcher will need to hold it for.

Cardinal Richelieu

Cedrus wrote: »

Supermarkets do tend to have fresher meat and that is the problem, red meats need to be aged for proper flavour, beef should be hung for at least 3 weeks, pork, lamb and younger animals for a lot less. The supermarket chains don't have or want the storage capacity or level of oversight to do this properly.

Conversely poultry should be fresh but the centralised distribution model that the supermarkets use delays the delivery to the customer, the 'use by date' on a chicken is legally set at 21 days after packing but the bird could have been slaughtered a day or two before that which is way longer than a butcher will need to hold it for.

How long would it take a chicken killed say in NI to reach a supermarket shop floor?

Cardinal Richelieu

rubadub wrote: »

This was one of the stories I heard, the ex-butcher saying they mixed in red dye to cover the high fat content and colour the pork mince they were blending in with beef.

Yes that was a common practice, one reason I ask the butcher to make up the steak mince fresh in front of me. I did hear a tale from a butcher that a former IRA prisoner ended up in a mincer in Drogheda with some of that red dye.:eek:

Cedrus

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

How long would it take a chicken killed say in NI to reach a supermarket shop floor?

I'd say that's a "how long is a piece of string" kind of question, but for a start look at how many steps there are in the supermarket supply chain,

1. Farm
2. Abattoir
3. Central distribution,
4. Supermarket

complete with transport and dispatch holding at each stage depending on demand.

Compared to my local butcher

1. Farm
2. Shop

with slaughter on a day to day basis according to demand.

Now having said that, the supermarkets provide a very popular service and they can supply low cost food which is what many if not most people want, but their system is designed for profit not quality.

aidan24326

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Whats wrong with Irish potatoes?

I didn't say there was anything wrong with them?

Cardinal Richelieu

aidan24326 wrote: »

I didn't say there was anything wrong with them?

Ahh just that King Edwards are a UK grown variety predominately and you be hard pressed to find one in a shop in Ireland that wasn't UK or NI grown.

HemlockOption

Stove Fan wrote: »

We have lived here nearly 2 years and will be returning to the UK for personal reasons but the thing that is so dissapointing is the quality of meat or lack of.

We have bought from Tesco, Garveys and Lidl and have to say it's been mostly either tasteless or pretty tough when cooked.

We like a roast dinner and today had a New Zealand leg of lamb from Lidl and it was appalingly tough. It was cooked properly and everything as normal and my Grandparents cooked it so have 67 years cooking experience.

Last week we bought a fresh chicken from Garveys and put it in the fridge to use the next day and sniffed it before cooking and it had gone off:eek:
Took it back for a refund.

We have not found a decent place to buy quality meat. We just love Waitrose in the UK or Asda for good deals.

My relative in Western France says the Irish leg of lamb was superb and so cheap at 4 euro on promotion. Saw a freezer lorry with Tralee on the side.
Is it the case that the decent quality meat gets exported?
Spuds we only buy the baby ones from lidl otherwise they just turn to mush.

Where do you go in Kerry for good quality meat and spuds? We love the big spuds for going in the oven.

Thanks Stove Fan:)

Ah yes. This is because the lamb is so terrified just before slaughter that its muscles contract so much that no amount of cooking experience can smooth out those petrified fibres.

stacey25

Superquinn

TBoneMan

Simple rules of thumb
if the butcher has beef bones for soup & your dog - thats a REAL BUTCHER
if the butcher makes their sausages in shop from local pork - thats a REAL BUTCHER.

The english market has the best selection of REAL BUTCHERS, no foreign meat... McCarthy in kanturk does great sausages and outstanding puddings...Bresnans in douglas is the only true traditional butcher there, clonakilty chicken fillets, superb sausages made in shop and the best beef i've ever had...

kerr pinks are the only spud you need...peel, cook in boiling salted water for 9 mins, drain well and shake vigorously to release the starch...then put in a preheated oven @ 180c with hot oil or fat;goose is my favourite; to roost for 40 mins turning once...best roasties EVER !!!

Mellor

TBoneMan wrote: »

Simple rules of thumb
if the butcher has beef bones for soup & your dog - thats a REAL BUTCHER
if the butcher makes their sausages in shop from local pork - thats a REAL BUTCHER.

The staff in superquinn meat counter are fully trained butchers.
They makes their own sausages in store.
they have bones for your dog or stock.

Askim

aidan24326 wrote: »

I didn't say there was anything wrong with them?

I will, they there are tasteless & watery, i now grow my own & there is no comparison, commercial growers use 8-10 bags of manure per acre, I use less than 1, they want max amount per acre, where i am after flavour & quality

A

Tazz T

I buy most of my meat from Superqunn because it's handy, but the steaks are always poor and when I make a casserole, it's always pricey lean steak peices which are no good for stewing/casseroling. I go up to Derry a lot. The rump steaks in Sainsbury's are miles better and the stewing steak in marbled, fatty and perfect for a casserole, not to mention much cheaper. Don't know if it's the same in the UK but the Northern Irish stuff in Sainsbury is all much better than Superquinn.

rubadub

rubadub wrote: »

One reason why a supermarket might have fresher meat is the butcher/servers may have no real vested interest in the profits..........one of the stories I heard, the ex-butcher saying they mixed in red dye to cover the high fat content and colour the pork mince they were blending in with beef.

I have a close relative who's a trained butcher. He's worked in butchering all over Leinster, and some of the stories he tells about what he's seen in many places would make you turn vegetarian.

Beef hearts being run through the mincer to redden up old mince to get another day or two's sales out of it, battery chickens being unwrapped from plastic, hooked & hung up and sold as free-range, steaks and chicken fillets being pumped full of water and additives to bulk them up or lengthen their shelf-life, and worst of all, what goes into butcher's sausages. Offal, snouts, ears, trotters, gristle, and all the day's left over offcuts and old mince. Stuff you literally wouldn't feed to a dog.

As posted, these guys have much more of a stake in their profits than a staff butcher working at a reputable large store. It's in their interest to cut corners. There's little or no enforcement of food hygiene standards for small operators in Ireland, and their overheads are going up constantly. They haven't got the retail muscle to squeeze their suppliers like the big multiples can, but they still have to compete in the same market, and selling inferior product billed as the same quality is how they do it.

I just don't trust them.

I buy from butchers very rarely and i only buy fresh meat, chopped off the cut right in front of me. Not in the back room or upstairs. On the counter while i wait and watch.

Cedrus

Deleted User wrote: »

........................................................................ and worst of all, what goes into butcher's sausages. Offal, snouts, ears, trotters, gristle, and all the day's left over offcuts and old mince. Stuff you literally wouldn't feed to a dog.............................................

That's what a sausage is, leftovers! There's a reason for chopping it up and squeezing it into a tube, why would you bother doing that to a lean pork chop or loin steak. Black and white pudding are the same.
If you don't like the idea of eating the whole carcass don't eat them, but don't kid yourself that's not what they are, wherever you buy them.

Cedrus

Cedrus wrote: »

That's what a sausage is, leftovers! There's a reason for chopping it up and squeezing it into a tube,.

A sausage is not just leftovers, it's leftovers from grades of meat that are still fit for human consumption, not chum, spoiled meat, and even in one case, sawdust.

Sausages are not good for you. That's not disputed, but crossing the line into something that could give you food poisoning or salmonella is going too far.

Askim

You need to change butcher, my butcher kills his own cattle, & his meat is hung for 21 days & it is all top quality, he would loose a lot of customers if he was messing with the meat.

Supermarkets age there meat in plastic, this allows them to retain weight & the beef looks really red, good beef should be dry & dark brown.

I wouldn't trust supermarkets, they squeeze the processing plant really hard & he is the one cutting huge corners, then they come back the following year & squeeze again.

Rgds
A

Askim

Askim wrote: »

You need to change butcher, my butcher kills his own cattle, & his meat is hung for 21 days & it is all top quality, he would loose a lot of customers if he was messing with the meat.

That is exceptional for a butcher operating in today's market. Is he charging a price premium over what the supermarket multiples charge? What's his business strategy? Does he try to compete or does he market himself as selling superior product?

I think the problem here is lack of awareness of the difference between good and poor quality meat in the general public. If some of the genuinely, verifiably better quality butchers got together and formed their own affiliation, were selective about the criteria for entry (ie quality produce, no crap) and got a brand message out there that said "yes, we're a bit more expensive, but you're paying for guaranteed quality and no rubbish", i'm sure they would have plenty of business from people like you and me who care about what they eat more than they care about paying an extra euro or whatever.

At the moment, as far as the majority of uneducated punters are concerned, a butcher is a butcher is a butcher. There's no way of distinguishing between a good one and one who cuts corners, so people judge them (unwisely) based on the only guide they can understand; their prices.

Cedrus

Deleted User wrote: »

...................................
If some of the genuinely, verifiably better quality butchers got together and formed their own affiliation,
........................................

They Have.

rubadub

Askim wrote: »

You need to change butcher...
I wouldn't trust supermarkets...

You could similarly say you need to change supermarkets!

Cedrus wrote: »

They Have.

I often see the craft butcher sign and wondered if it did mean anything, such as can they be somehow be "verifiably better quality" as requested.

Reading the site it seems they do not have anything in place. Seems to me any dodgy butcher could pay the membership fee and get the name on the door. There is no talk of audits or anything. It has this vague statement

Meat from a Craft Butcher is sourced, slaughtered and prepared locally and so reduces Food Miles (helping our carbon footprint), and also eliminating stress to the animals.

which is pretty meaningless TBH, no definition of 'local' its like lidl having "premium" on their cheapest beer. I doubt there is anything in place to stop a craft butcher selling say chicken fillets from thailand -or is there?

rubadub

rubadub wrote: »

I often see the craft butcher sign and wondered if it did mean anything, such as can they be somehow be "verifiably better quality" as requested.

Reading the site it seems they do not have anything in place. Seems to me any dodgy butcher could pay the membership fee and get the name on the door.

This is the key point to me. Marketing yourself as high quality or craft, or whatever with nothing independent behind you to back your claims up is no use.

As far as i can see, either they are either (a) terrible at marketing a genuine differentiator which they actually do have in the marketplace (which they should be shouting from the rooftops about) or (b) they haven't got anything special and are just the same old butchers chancing their arm with a loose affiliation, a self proclaimed higher standard, and a sticker on their door.

I may be wrong, and i stand to be corrected. They may genuinely be better butchers, selling better quality meat, but i'm not going to take their word for it before i eat their produce. I would like to see some specific details on exactly what makes them so special, and an independent verification of it, rather than just an affiliation, their own opinions, and some marketing rhetoric.

Cedrus

rubadub wrote: »

I often see the craft butcher sign and wondered if it did mean anything, such as can they be somehow be "verifiably better quality" as requested.

In fairness I was only responding to the "got together and formed their own affiliation" question, I read the first half as a prerequisite.

rubadub wrote: »

Reading the site it seems they do not have anything in place. Seems to me any dodgy butcher could pay the membership fee and get the name on the door. There is no talk of audits or anything. It has this vague statement

This is a problem with any award system where awardees pay for membership, there are numerous instances of this in Ireland, the restaurant and hospitality trades are littered with dubious 'awards'. I'm not sure what auditing the ACBI do but even if it only relies on a group of traders not letting their name be dragged down by a rogue trader (like the alleged maker of the sawdust and salmonella sausages above) it's better than nothing.
This article from the cork news reports a more verifiable system being introduced.

BroomBurner

There is still that lack of connection between animal welfare and quality of meat, even in the proposed Craft Butcher changes. Animals that are well fed, well looked after, and able to behave like animals will invariably taste better.

We buy our pork from an independent farmer, so we know it got to live outside being a pig, as opposed to indoors on concrete, never seeing daylight. The difference in taste is huge. I would prefer it if the Craft Butchers and Bord Bia focused on promoting certified free-range meat (and the farming methods that this requires) as opposed to their "meets regulatory quality controls after slaughter" style approach.