Sweden crying out for engineers and IT people. Where's all the Irish?

stupidusername

C, C#, C++ and Java are each their own languages.

maybe what you're thinking is that C# is very similar to VB

WillieFlynn

Domo230 wrote: »

Most of the IT work I was ever involved in could have been done via telecommuting imo.

Best way to live would be find a tropical island in the pacific where standards of living are really low (like live as a king for 500 euro low) and telecommute to work while enjoying your high Irish standard IT salary.

In the last company I worked in we had staff in Spain, England, Austrila, Argentina, and so on... they first worked in Ireland and then left for personal / family reasons, but were kept on.

I was thinking the same about telecommuting before, however what would allow us to work remotely also allows the companies to higher people in low cost countries India, Philippines, Russia, etc. Can't complain about jobs being shifted to lower cost countries, as that is why the computer industry set up in Ireland in the fist place.

starlit

stupidusername wrote: »

C, C#, C++ and Java are each their own languages.

maybe what you're thinking is that C# is very similar to VB

Ya maybe that's it, C# i'v seen as an option language to use in Visual studio often makes me confused with VB.

So are C, C# and C++ all different versions of Java so?

stupidusername

doovdela wrote: »

Ya maybe that's it, C# i'v seen as an option language to use in Visual studio often makes me confused with VB.

So are C, C# and C++ all different versions of Java so?

No. they're all languages.

titan18

doovdela wrote: »

Oh right. I did VB a few years ago but it was with visual studio 5 not version 6 and VBA with MS access. So is VBA of any use these days?

One thing I get confused is what language is C is that VB, C Sharp and C++ are they both java?

I know there are more than one versions of Java which is a pain as the language changes a bit from time to time depending what version you programme.

Unix/Linux, PHP, CSS and HTML at least stay the same and don't change! Which is good news for me! Windows programming wouldn't be too bad mostly commands like linux. They be the languages I be best at the OS and Web programming languages though don't have Javascript and only touched on perl and python (not a fan of python or java!) Though java seems to be a must have along with other programming languages I've mentioned but depends on job in question. Each job spec can be slightly different.

Java and C# are very similar, if you know one, it was quite easy to work with the other. I've never used C++,C etc.

Also, C# and VB.Net are both part of the .NET framework, so share a lot of similar characteristics.

I wouldn't get caught on what languages someone has or has not. If you could code in something like Java and understand the fundamentals, you should be capable of picking up a lot of languages.

Pure_Cork

markpb wrote: »

You can take that approach if you like but the truth is that most IT jobs are and will be, in cities because that's where the majority of people are. Setting up in Kinsale and hoping to find enough suitable professionals in a town with a population of 2k is very naive.

You can't just set up a company anywhere and expect people to move there - it doesn't work like that.



Companies can't exist on graduates alone and a company hoping to employ sought-after IT graduates in a remote location are daft. If you're setting up a building company, maybe you'd have some hope there.

I've seen people move anywhere for work. Kinsale is within commuting distance of Cork City is someone wanted to live in the very centre of the city. There are multinational companies based in small towns, location is rarely a problem for people who are hungry for work. The last place I worked was a large multinational, at one of their offices/plants which was 40 minutes away from the nearest city, people had no problem relocating and/or commuting. That multinational must be very naive alright... :rolleyes:

bout3fiddy

IT is a terrible industry to work in imo. I have become very bitter about the whole sector and it's unregulated nature. So I took my Computer Science Degree and gave the four fingers to the sector.

I am now training to work in the financial sector where I can really apply my programming skills while not dealing with IT related crap and end users. Avoid IT. It's not regulated and full of mavericks with little or no professional rigour.

It's a low prestige sector to be quite honest. Algorithms will be developed to replace these grunts anyway. There are a very small subset of jobs that are good, most jobs in "IT" are a pile of you know what. Avoid.

omahaid

bout3fiddy wrote: »

IT is a terrible industry to work in imo. I have become very bitter about the whole sector and it's unregulated nature. So I took my Computer Science Degree and gave the four fingers to the sector.

I am now training to work in the financial sector where I can really apply my programming skills while not dealing with IT related crap and end users. Avoid IT. It's not regulated and full of mavericks with little or no professional rigour.

It's a low prestige sector to be quite honest. Algorithms will be developed to replace these grunts anyway. There are a very small subset of jobs that are good, most jobs in "IT" are a pile of you know what. Avoid.

What do you mean by "IT"? Software development? Or network admin? Or....?

dvpower

bout3fiddy wrote: »

IT is a terrible industry to work in imo. I have become very bitter about the whole sector and it's unregulated nature. So I took my Computer Science Degree and gave the four fingers to the sector.

I am now training to work in the financial sector where I can really apply my programming skills while not dealing with IT related crap and end users. Avoid IT. It's not regulated and full of mavericks with little or no professional rigour.

It's a low prestige sector to be quite honest. Algorithms will be developed to replace these grunts anyway. There are a very small subset of jobs that are good, most jobs in "IT" are a pile of you know what. Avoid.

tl;dr
Studied Computer Science, couldn't make it in the sector, moved into a different field. Remain a little bit bitter.

Mark200

stupidusername wrote: »

pragmatic1 wrote: »

What websites do you look for jobs on?

jobs.ie, fas.ie, adverts.ie/jobs
they're pretty much all just showing the same jobs anyway. since i can't get an intern job I haven't bothered looking much at paid IT jobs tbh.

Try going onto company websites. Very few jobs are actually advertised on those sites.

If you're looking for a grad position then you're prob too late to get one for this coming September. Nearly all companies would have decided already who they're taking on.

In the mean time, keep yourself busy with learning new skills and starting your own projects. Don't leave gaps in your CV.

salonfire wrote: »

Helix wrote: »

isnt the standard of irish IT graduates seen as being fairly abysmal these days? i remember in an interview i did with one of the guys from Havok where he essentially said that the standard is so poor in ireland they'll rarely entertain any irish applicants

That guy from Havok is peddling total bullsh1t.

Irish IT grads come from the same background, have the same work ethic, come from the same universities as grads in Engineering, Medicine, Nursing, Business, Maths, etc

Why is it that Irish IT grads are so bad?
Are Irish Medicine grads bad as well? Have we Nursing grads going round accidently killing people?


I have the feeling that something else is at play when IT grads are always being talked down

It seems that you're the one "peddling total bullsh1t". Irish IT companies needing to bring in people from abroad is a well know problem. It's not just companies like Havok who are looking for the "best of the best" that are having the problem either.

daelight

Did someone say 'Sweden' ?

Appears lost in the barrage of muck being thrown about

bout3fiddy

dvpower wrote: »

tl;dr
Studied Computer Science, couldn't make it in the sector, moved into a different field. Remain a little bit bitter.

Pretty much. Good grades and still more bull****. I am still glad I am not working for free. Any company that "hires" junior IT staff for 50 euro a week or whatever is legalised exploitation. The least they could do is stop calling it a "job". Not to mention companies using the term "Engineer" loosely, which is highly illegal in certain places. You can be thrown in jail for pulling that stunt.

omahaid

daelight wrote: »

Did someone say 'Sweden' ?

Appears lost in the barrage of muck being thrown about

Ah yes, to address the OP, plenty software jobs here, have wife and kids and mortgage so Sweden has to work harder to convince me to move

Cookie_Monster

pragmatic1 wrote: »

There's a huge shortage of IT people and engineers in this country too.

my fiancée and two of my friends are engineers and they've all moved abroad, there are no engineering jobs in Ireland that are worthwhile in comparison to what many other countries can offer.

bout3fiddy

Scandanavia is too highly taxed. The UK would be a better move if you want to keep more money, plus you aren't subject to immigration controls for the most part.

Mark200

bout3fiddy wrote: »

dvpower wrote: »

tl;dr
Studied Computer Science, couldn't make it in the sector, moved into a different field. Remain a little bit bitter.

Pretty much. Good grades and still more bull****. I am still glad I am not working for free. Any company that "hires" junior IT staff for 50 euro a week or whatever is legalised exploitation. The least they could do is stop calling it a "job". Not to mention companies using the term "Engineer" loosely, which is highly illegal in certain places. You can be thrown in jail for pulling that stunt.

Em except they aren't being hired for 50 euro a week, they're being hired for between €150 to €238 a week not including any other Govt assistance they might be getting. Really don't see how that is exploitation when the alternative for the person is to earn 50 euro less a week while searching for a job and in the meantime the gap in their CV grows

WillieFlynn

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

my fiancée and two of my friends are engineers and they've all moved abroad, there are no engineering jobs in Ireland that are worthwhile in comparison to what many other countries can offer.

Very much depends on the branch of engineering.

bout3fiddy

Mark200 wrote: »

Em except they aren't being hired for 50 euro a week, they're being hired for between €150 to €238 a week not including any other Govt assistance they might be getting. Really don't see how that is exploitation when the alternative for the person is to earn 50 euro less a week while searching for a job and in the meantime the gap in their CV grows

Rubbish. Most of the Internships advertised on JobBridge are a 50 euro a week job for the employer, no expenses or perks, and the worker is still on the dole. Hardly a good situation to be in. That is unemployment to me. Gaps in CV? That should be the least of their worries. It's none of their business what you do with your time outside work. Get a minimum wage stop gap job in the meantime or just fabricate job references if you are really stuck. Doing IT work for nothing is just laughable really.

HavingCrack

bout3fiddy wrote: »

Scandanavia is too highly taxed. The UK would be a better move if you want to keep more money, plus you aren't subject to immigration controls for the most part.

You aren't subject to immigration control in Sweden, Denmark or Finland either. They are all EU states, same as the UK. The only exception is Norway and I'm pretty sure it's relatively easy for members of the EEA to emigrate there also.

bout3fiddy

HavingCrack wrote: »

You aren't subject to immigration control in Sweden, Denmark or Finland either. They are all EU states, same as the UK. The only exception is Norway and I'm pretty sure it's relatively easy for members of the EEA to emigrate there also.

Try aquiring permanent residency in under 5 years then if you don't believe me. May not be as strict as further afield, but your rights in EEA states outside of the UK are without a doubt more limited.

HavingCrack

bout3fiddy wrote: »

Try aquiring permanent residency in under 10 years then if you don't believe me. May not be as strict as further afield, but your rights in EEA states outside of the UK are without a doubt more limited.

If it's just a case of EEA states only Norway comes into that category. Sweden, Denmark and Finland are all EU states. You don't need permanent residency in a state if it's part of the EU.

later12

Anyone wrote: »

Expensive place to live, crap licensing laws, ****ty 20 hour dark days in winter.

Nice women though!

Hmm, I'm not sure about the latter point. I've been to Sweden twice and both times was sorely disappointed with what I imagined would we wall-to-wall Agnetha Faltskogs (she of Abba fame).

I didn't think Swedish women were significantly better looking than their German, French or Irish counterparts. In fact, Swedish society has an odd coldness to it. You really don't make random chats like you might in these islands so even if you think someone's cute, you can't just start chatting to them. Maybe it's just me:(

Mark200

bout3fiddy wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

Em except they aren't being hired for 50 euro a week, they're being hired for between €150 to €238 a week not including any other Govt assistance they might be getting. Really don't see how that is exploitation when the alternative for the person is to earn 50 euro less a week while searching for a job and in the meantime the gap in their CV grows

Rubbish. Most of the Internships advertised on JobBridge are a 50 euro a week job for the employer, no expenses or perks, and the worker is still on the dole. Hardly a good situation to be in. That is unemployment to me. Gaps in CV? That should be the least of their worries. It's none of their business what you do with your time outside work. Get a minimum wage stop gap job in the meantime or just fabricate job references if you are really stuck. Doing IT work for nothing is just laughable really.

What a ridiculous post. That you think CV gaps should be "the least of their worries" says a lot. And the employer doesn't pay the 50 euro.

Zulu

later12 wrote: »

You really don't make random chats like you might in these islands so even if you think someone's cute, you can't just start chatting to them. Maybe it's just me:(

What!?! It's just you then, sorry. Are you sure it was Sweden you were in? The Swedes are great craic out and about. I've never had any problems chatting up the ladies over there when I was a single man...

Anyways, thats all OT, sorry OP.

bout3fiddy

Mark200 wrote: »

What a ridiculous post. That you think CV gaps should be "the least of their worries" says a lot. And the employer doesn't pay the 50 euro.

You could be self employed or ill for say, 6 months. Not to mention employment as a quango. Listing dates proves little about your skill or intelligence, unlike qualifications. Do I need to lick arse by providing an "explanation" for unaccounted time? Last time I checked, a bog standard CV is just a marketing document for the skills you offer, not a life story of every data point since birth. Next time they ask me what I have been doing for 3 months, I will ask him/her for their credit card details. Fair?

later12

Zulu wrote: »

What!?! It's just you then, sorry. Are you sure it was Sweden you were in? The Swedes are great craic out and about.

Out and about yes, of course.

In situations where they're not writhing to electro-industrial dance music, I thought a lot of Swedes were more aloof relative to other Europeans. I would have thought that was quite a commonly shared view amongst visitors to Sweden.

BostonB

Pure_Cork wrote: »

If someone isn't prepared to move to a beautiful place like Kinsale, only half an hour from a city, in search of work then they're not hungry for work or just plain stupid in my opinion. ****ing hell like. Any recent graduate that I know working in a good job now was prepared to move anywhere for work, they didn't just apply for jobs within a 1km radius of their mam's tits.

Very narrow minded.

People may have a support network of family for looking after kids, or older relatives. Or indeed partners maybe working aswell. Or perhaps they need to be a hospital or such nearby. or simply they might like living where they are, or own the property they live in. Besides its the employers who can't get IT staff, (apparently) and "If the mountain won't come to Muhammad".

BostonB

bout3fiddy wrote: »

...a bog standard CV is just a marketing document for the skills you offer, not a life story of every data point since birth. ...

Have to agree with this. its usually only HR who are interested in minute details. The people you are working with only need to know can you do the job, communicate and not be a PITA to work with.

Zulu

later12 wrote: »

I thought a lot of Swedes were more aloof relative to other Europeans...

Well we'll agree to differ.

Dostoevsky

stupidusername wrote: »

what?

If there's 'hardly nothing' (as opposed to hardly anything) going that implies that there's plenty going.

stupidusername

I'm willing to do a jobbridge internship if it gets me in somewhere, doing coding, like a proper job, not one that includes bits of other jobs that just need doing, not one that you're thrown into with no supervision, or that you're expected to know everything, but it seems there are none like this out there.

The €50 is paid by the government, and I don't get any other 'perks' from the government, as everyone not on the dole seems to like to think everybody's on.

working for 238 a week means 5.95 an hour, it's not really something people want to jump at. and yes obviously Im worried about the gap in my CV, but if I can't get a job, I can't get a ****ing job!

Dostoevsky wrote: »

If there's 'hardly nothing' (as opposed to hardly anything) going that implies that there's plenty going.

whatever.

dvpower

BostonB wrote: »

Have to agree with this. its usually only HR who are interested in minute details. The people you are working with only need to know can you do the job, communicate and not be a PITA to work with.

If I'm hiring IT people (and I am) and there are gaps in the CV, I do tend to view it as a negative. I start wondering what are the factors that left the candidate out of work in a fairly bouyant market.

Raekwon

Just out of curiosity, are there many System/Network Admin roles in Scandinavia at the moment or are they similar to Irish and mainly looking for Developers?

later12 wrote: »

Hmm, I'm not sure about the latter point. I've been to Sweden twice and both times was sorely disappointed with what I imagined would we wall-to-wall Agnetha Faltskogs (she of Abba fame).

I didn't think Swedish women were significantly better looking than their German, French or Irish counterparts. In fact, Swedish society has an odd coldness to it. You really don't make random chats like you might in these islands so even if you think someone's cute, you can't just start chatting to them. Maybe it's just me:(

I think it's just you. Let's be realistic here, there really is no comparison between Swedish women and Irish women, even trying to compare them is actually rather cringe-worthy to be honest.

stupidusername

for christs sake, why does everything come down to 'irish women are ugly'.

pragmatic1

stupidusername wrote: »

I'm willing to do a jobbridge internship if it gets me in somewhere, doing coding, like a proper job, not one that includes bits of other jobs that just need doing, not one that you're thrown into with no supervision, or that you're expected to know everything, but it seems there are none like this out there.

The €50 is paid by the government, and I don't get any other 'perks' from the government, as everyone not on the dole seems to like to think everybody's on.

working for 238 a week means 5.95 an hour, it's not really something people want to jump at. and yes obviously Im worried about the gap in my CV, but if I can't get a job, I can't get a ****ing job!



whatever.

I done one of those jobs bridge schemes. Had to move for the duration of the scheme. The position was in a very remote corner of Donegal. Had to walk a mile in the morning to get to the bus, then get on a bus packed with school kids for half an hour and then walk for two miles before reaching my destination. Would leave at half seven and get back at about six. It was tough going but it really did help me getting a job.

Before the internship I had about two interviews, after it I had one every other week and after about two months later I got a job in the exact area I'm interested in a company that is close to home.

stupidusername

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I done one of those jobs bridge schemes. Had to move for the duration of the scheme. The position was in a very remote corner of Donegal. Had to walk a mile in the morning to get to the bus, then get on a bus packed with school kids for half an hour and then walk for two miles before reaching my destination. Would leave at half seven and get back at about six. It was tough going but it really did help me getting a job.

Before the internship I had about two interviews, after it I had one every other week and after about two months later I got a job in the exact area I'm interested in a company that is close to home.

Sounds like bragging to me
:pac:

seriously, good for you. my point is I can't even get one of those. i've done a WPP already too btw.

bout3fiddy

dvpower wrote: »

If I'm hiring IT people (and I am) and there are gaps in the CV, I do tend to view it as a negative. I start wondering what are the factors that left the candidate out of work in a fairly bouyant market.

You are naive if you believe all gaps on an average CV are accounted for. I would pull the wool over your eyes. Managing servers and writing non pure math based algorithmic code is not for me though. Testing and UI/web stuff is especially filthy and ultra hacky work.

pragmatic1

stupidusername wrote: »

Sounds like bragging to me
:pac:

seriously, good for you. my point is I can't even get one of those. i've done a WPP already too btw.

Its not bragging, its just what happened. I was out of work for almost two years, trust me I know what its like. Have you tried IBEC a friend done a work placement scheme with them and got a permanent position after only two months. Its open to anyone with a 2.1 or higher, you have a good degree.

Encrypted Pigeon

stupidusername wrote: »

seriously, good for you. my point is I can't even get one of those. i've done a WPP already too btw.

As someone who is nearly half way through a degree program, this scares me.

stupidusername

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Its not bragging, its just what happened. I was out of work for almost two years, trust me I know what its like. Have you tried IBEC a friend done a work placement scheme with them and got a permanent position after only two months. Its open to anyone with a 2.1 or higher, you have a good degree.

Ah I shouldn't be writing in here really. there's been a few things that have probably contributed to me not getting a job. my anxiety and depression being the biggest factors. so it's not really something I should complain about. but not like employers give a ****.

Sintel wrote: »

As someone who is nearly half way through a degree program, this scares me.

No point in worrying now. worry when you're finished your degree.

bout3fiddy

stupidusername wrote: »

Ah I shouldn't be writing in here really. there's been a few things that have probably contributed to me not getting a job. my anxiety and depression being the biggest factors. so it's not really something I should complain about. but not like employers give a ****.



No point in worrying now. worry when you're finished your degree.

It's a bit of a hassle, and you have to file your own tax return forms, but have you considered work as an independant contractor? Maybe work on some projects and then apply to various firms for a job. The difference being, they can't tell you what to do, only that you must abide to the terms of the contract. Being an employee at times is akin to being a caged animal. Plus you don't have to deal with petty office politics and "meetings".

Encrypted Pigeon

stupidusername wrote: »

No point in worrying now. worry when you're finished your degree.

yeah, yeah I know, I have bigger fish to fry at the moment. But the fear is always there that you could be fighting for a lost cause. You bust your gut through 4 years of doing all sorts of ****e, sometimes pointless ****e, just to earn a piece of paper that is worthless without some experience, experience you cant get because employers are looking for people with experience (cant blame them either for that, they are trying to make money too). What scares me is that this is my second time going through the process and I am really hoping the grass will be greener on the other side.

stupidusername

Sintel wrote: »

yeah, yeah I know, I have bigger fish to fry at the moment. But the fear is always there that you could be fighting for a lost cause. You bust your gut through 4 years of doing all sorts of ****e, sometimes pointless ****e, just to earn a piece of paper that is worthless without some experience, experience you cant get because employers are looking for people with experience (cant blame them either for that, they are trying to make money too). What scares me is that this is my second time going through the process and I am really hoping the grass will be greener on the other side.

a lot can change in two years. when we started our degree we were expecting to come out the other end in high demand and told we'd be making lots of money. by the time we finished the recession had begun. there's no point thinking about that far ahead.

saa

I'm sorry op I'm sorry I did an Arts course and now nobody needs me nowhere
:pac:

I think I might retrain and study something that makes me employable to use with my first degree (how ridiculous does that sound first, second degree pah).

But it seems like the way things have gone there isn't much demand for soft skills, I can be creative and I can work with people... le sigh.

Encrypted Pigeon

stupidusername wrote: »

a lot can change in two years. when we started our degree we were expecting to come out the other end in high demand and told we'd be making lots of money. by the time we finished the recession had begun. there's no point thinking about that far ahead.

Sound advice, thanks.

I wish you luck in your own search.

Seomra Mushie

Raekwon wrote: »

I think it's just you. Let's be realistic here, there really is no comparison between Swedish women and Irish women, even trying to compare them is actually rather cringe-worthy to be honest.

Someone else's opinion is cringeworthy? If he's been there a few times and was disappointed, then he's not basing his opinion on nothing. Different preferences, etc. etc.

Mark200

stupidusername wrote: »

I'm willing to do a jobbridge internship if it gets me in somewhere, doing coding, like a proper job, not one that includes bits of other jobs that just need doing, not one that you're thrown into with no supervision, or that you're expected to know everything, but it seems there are none like this out there.

Have you checked out the jobbridge website? Just had a quick browse and I found a few ones that sound quite interesting

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

Link 4

Just from a few random clicks. There were 134 results under the Software/IT category.

stupidusername

Mark200 wrote: »

Have you checked out the jobbridge website? Just had a quick browse and I found a few ones that sound quite interesting

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

Link 4

Just from a few random clicks. There were 134 results under the Software/IT category.

yeah in theory they're all fantastic. but then you knew that's what I was saying right?

skregs

All the Irish are on the dole complaining that the only jobs available are beneath them, apparently.

I work a fairly crappy job that is way beneath what I'm qualified for, but then no job is as humiliating as being on welfare

jaykay74

bout3fiddy wrote: »

Scandanavia is too highly taxed.

I'm a middle income earner here in Sweden and pay roughly 33% of my pay to income tax. For what I get back I think thats fair enough, creche for the kids is 100 euro a month rather than 850 a month per kid at home, transport system that works etc etc .... High earners do pay 50% taxes which i think is fair enough. Not sure what is defined as high earners but think its 70/80k+