Controversial Football Opinions - Mod Note #413

djfitzerjnr

I was just wondering if there was anyone else that had some controversial football opinions, like they don't agree with everyone else for a particular reason.

For me, I don't agree with the way everyone is banging on about Paul Scholes being the best centre midfielder in England the past 20 years.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I can't stand Barcelona, especially Messi. I do like Iniesta and Xavi, though.

Morricone

While Messi probably will go down as the greatest of all time, I think he'll need to leave Barca at some stage and do something great, on a par with what Maradona did at Napoli.

Until he does that I will always have a slight doubt in the back of my mind. If he woke a sleeping giant like Newcastle, Atletico Madrid, Roma or Lazio and brought them to league and European glory he would absolutely cement his reputation as the greatest of all time, unquestionably.

He probably doesn't need to do this, its possibly selfish on behalf but nevertheless something which I would love to see occur.

Backstreet Moyes

I disagree with your opinion but could you tell me who in your opinion is the best center midfielder in England the last twenty years?

monkey9

Nuts102 wrote: »

I disagree with your opinion but could you tell me who in your opinion is the best center midfielder in England the last twenty years?

English or in England?

The Sparrow

Nuts102 wrote: »

I disagree with your opinion but could you tell me who in your opinion is the best center midfielder in England the last twenty years?

Roy Keane.

Backstreet Moyes

Morricone wrote: »

While Messi probably will go down as the greatest of all time, I think he'll need to leave Barca at some stage and do something great, on a par with what Maradona did at Napoli.

Until he does that I will always have a slight doubt in the back of my mind. If he woke a sleeping giant like Newcastle, Atletico Madrid, Roma or Lazio and brought them to league and European glory he would absolutely cement his reputation as the greatest of all time, unquestionably.

He probably doesn't need to do this, its possibly selfish on behalf but nevertheless something which I would love to see occur.

How exactly is any of those teams going to sign him. Even if he decided he wanted to go your talking upto €200 million or more. Actually you cant put a price on him.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Backstreet Moyes

monkey9 wrote: »

English or in England?

Both and in response to the Sparrow Roy Keane is a good shout.

monkey9

Actually, yeah. Roy Keane!!

G.K.

Reminds me of the similar thread in music.

For starters:

Kenny Dalglish should bow out at the end of the season, I don't see it getting better with more time - his tactical decisions have been bizarre.

Rooney is overrated - he's a tremendous player but not world class.

Carragher is finished.

Chris Smalling should start for England.

Villa could well go down this season.

Lucas is in the top echelons of DM's in the world.

Evra is utterly hopeless as a LB.

Neymar will be the next Robinho.

Players who can't do everything are a dying breed at the top level.

Only Ronaldo and Robben are superior Wingers to Valencia - Nani, Ribery too inconsistent.

The Sparrow

Nuts102 wrote: »

How exactly is any of those teams going to sign him. Even if he decided he wanted to go your talking upto €200 million or more. Actually you cant put a price on him.

Fair point. Although, you could at least expect the best player ever to be able to do better with his country ala Maradonna.

Tusky

Morricone wrote: »

While Messi probably will go down as the greatest of all time, I think he'll need to leave Barca at some stage and do something great, on a par with what Maradona did at Napoli.

Until he does that I will always have a slight doubt in the back of my mind. If he woke a sleeping giant like Newcastle, Atletico Madrid, Roma or Lazio and brought them to league and European glory he would absolutely cement his reputation as the greatest of all time, unquestionably.

He probably doesn't need to do this, its possibly selfish on behalf but nevertheless something which I would love to see occur.

Agreed. Messi needs to sign for Newcastle before he can truly be considered the greatest of all time.

Sweet suffering jaysus. Some of the bollix that gets posted on here would have you in tears if it wasn't so hilarious.

Fuhrer

G.K. wrote: »

Neymar will be the next Robinho.

Not sure what you mean by that

You mean talent wise?

Or that hes going to waste his potential?

G.K.

Fuhrer wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by that

You mean talent wise?

Or that hes going to waste his potential?

Both, really. I'm not sure if waste is exactly the right word but I'm sure you get what I mean.

GLaDOS

G.K. wrote: »

Carragher is finished.

Is that really controversial? I imagine a lot of Liverpool fans would agree, nevermind fans of other teams.

CR 7

At the risk of drawing out the barca fan boys, messi isn't the angel people seem intent on portraying. It's repeated so often by commentators that he never ever dives that I'm not surprised that some idiots are still convinced. It almost seems that people just really want to be able to say that they saw the best player ever play, so much so that every thing he does is hailed as some kind of masterpiece.

A recent example is that free kick he scored where he took it quickly while the keeper was at the post organising the wall. Fairly standard thing for a professional player to be able to do.

djfitzerjnr

Nuts102 wrote: »

I disagree with your opinion but could you tell me who in your opinion is the best center midfielder in England the last twenty years?

I wouldn't say there is one definite answer and many top midfielder have had 5-7 year spells on top.

Why pick on Scholes you say? Well for a start he hasn't even played 20 years, and if you take out the years he didn't play through injury, take out the years he played as a striker, and then second striker when Veron came, he only played roughly 10 years as a real CM, hardly enough to be called the best CM for 20 years is it?

Ganymede Glow

Martin O Neill is not a top manager

Fuhrer

djfitzerjnr wrote: »

I wouldn't say there is one definite answer and many top midfielder have had 5-7 year spells on top.

Why pick on Scholes you say? Well for a start he hasn't even played 20 years, and if you take out the years he didn't play through injury, take out the years he played as a striker, and then second striker when Veron came, he only played roughly 10 years as a real CM, hardly enough to be called the best CM for 20 years is it?

Then who is?

G.K.

@ScienceNerd The clued in fans sure, but to many (Like some pool fans I know at school who buy into the whole sky/british hype - bear in mind they're all 16/17) his experience makes him a 'good' player still and goals conceded aren't attributed to him when they should.

monkey9

CR 7 wrote: »

At the risk of drawing out the barca fan boys, messi isn't the angel people seem intent on portraying. It's repeated so often by commentators that he never ever dives that I'm not surprised that some idiots are still convinced. It almost seems that people just really want to be able to say that they saw the best player ever play, so much so that every thing he does is hailed as some kind of masterpiece.

A recent example is that free kick he scored where he took it quickly while the keeper was at the post organising the wall. Fairly standard thing for a professional player to be able to do.

So not only is Messi the best player in the world, he is also the best quick thinking footballer as well! Good nomination CR7!!

Blatter

G.K. wrote: »

Reminds me of the similar thread in music.

For starters:

Kenny Dalglish should bow out at the end of the season, I don't see it getting better with more time - his tactical decisions have been bizarre.

Rooney is overrated - he's a tremendous player but not world class.

Carragher is finished.

Chris Smalling should start for England.

Villa could well go down this season.

Lucas is in the top echelons of DM's in the world.

Evra is utterly hopeless as a LB.

Neymar will be the next Robinho.

Players who can't do everything are a dying breed at the top level.

Only Ronaldo and Robben are superior Wingers to Valencia - Nani, Ribery too inconsistent.

He's as about as inconsistent as David Silva, but Silva is still world class IMO.

When Rooney goes off the boil for a month or two, questions are raised about his true class. I've heard very little of those questions in relation to Silva for some reason.

For me, Rooney is in the top 5 forwards in the world. Messi, Ronaldo are out on front, and then there's Rooney, Aguero, Zlatan etc.

I honestly don't get when people say he's not world class. You'd have to have a very rigid definition of 'world class' not to have Rooney in that bracket tbh.

djfitzerjnr

I also don't have the biggest grá for Messi. As others have said, commentators love him and won't do anything to darken his name, where-as if Ronaldo did the same it would be the total opposite. I also agree with the winning with another team point, be it Argentina or another club. Don't get me wrong terrific player, deserves the plaudits he gets.

Backstreet Moyes

G.K. wrote: »

Reminds me of the similar thread in music.

For starters:

Kenny Dalglish should bow out at the end of the season, I don't see it getting better with more time - his tactical decisions have been bizarre.

Rooney is overrated - he's a tremendous player but not world class.

Carragher is finished.

Chris Smalling should start for England.

Villa could well go down this season.

Lucas is in the top echelons of DM's in the world.

Evra is utterly hopeless as a LB.

Neymar will be the next Robinho.

Players who can't do everything are a dying breed at the top level.

Only Ronaldo and Robben are superior Wingers to Valencia - Nani, Ribery too inconsistent.

I dont want to seem biased as i am a United fan.

Rooney i think is world class especially this season.

Lucas i agree with still cringe when hear barstoolers talk about how bad he is,get upto date!

Evra ya been very poor for awhile.

Where would you start Smalling. I think he is class but dont think he will be ahead of Terry or Ferdinand. At right back Richards has been brilliant this year.

Neymar is special.

djfitzerjnr

Fuhrer wrote: »

Then who is?

I don't think there is one. I think many players have spells as the top dog, like Keane, Scholes, Vieira..etc

Morricone

The Sparrow wrote: »

Fair point. Although, you could at least expect the best player ever to be able to do better with his country ala Maradonna.

Its easily forgotten that Maradona was 26 when he won the World Cup after being sent off in disgrace vs Brazil in '82. Judge Messi after the next World Cup.

Nuts102 wrote: »

How exactly is any of those teams going to sign him. Even if he decided he wanted to go your talking upto €200 million or more. Actually you cant put a price on him.

I don't know. Maybe by the time Messi has come to 28 or 29 and wom about 6 Champions Leagues, and 10 La Liga's and how many world player of the awards, Barca may deal Messi for a fair price if he asks for a new challenge.

What with their whole 'mes que un club' bullshít.

Tusky wrote: »

Agreed. Messi needs to sign for Newcastle before he can truly be considered the greatest of all time.

Sweet suffering jaysus. Some of the bollix that gets posted on here would have you in tears if it wasn't so hilarious.

Did I say that. Messi will more than likely go down as the greatest of all time, but if he did something on a par with what Maradona did with Napoli with a different club it would be apt and remove all doubt whatsoever.

Will I Amnt

djfitzerjnr wrote: »

Why pick on Scholes you say? Well for a start he hasn't even played 20 years, and if you take out the years he didn't play through injury, take out the years he played as a striker, and then second striker when Veron came, he only played roughly 10 years as a real CM, hardly enough to be called the best CM for 20 years is it?

I think you misunderstand what it means to be the best CM in the last 20 years.

Backstreet Moyes

djfitzerjnr wrote: »

I wouldn't say there is one definite answer and many top midfielder have had 5-7 year spells on top.

Why pick on Scholes you say? Well for a start he hasn't even played 20 years, and if you take out the years he didn't play through injury, take out the years he played as a striker, and then second striker when Veron came, he only played roughly 10 years as a real CM, hardly enough to be called the best CM for 20 years is it?

Are you serious lol name me a centre midfielder who has played for 20 seasons in England including injury's also.

Blatter

Oh yeah, Michael Carrick should be starting for England, although I'm not sure how controversial that is.

MrStuffins

Ronaldo is better than Messi!

dfx-

I don't consider Bohemian FC as Rovers' biggest rivals..

Goalkeepers are not protected enough and too easily criticised and blamed..

djfitzerjnr

Nuts102 wrote: »

Are you serious lol name me a centre midfielder who has played for 20 seasons in England including injury's also.

That's kinda what I'm trying to get to. You can't be the greatest for 20 years if you haven't played for 20 years!

You can easily say that Maldini was the best CB for 15 years because he actually was. You can't say Scholes is the best for 20 years because he was/is not, in my opinion.

He was/is a brilliant midfielder and had his few years as the top midfielder but not 20 years, not many players can be the best for 5 years, let alone 20.

G.K.

Blatter wrote: »

He's as about as inconsistent as David Silva, but Silva is still world class IMO.

When Rooney goes off the boil for a month or two, questions are raised about his true class. I've heard very little of those questions in relation to Silva for some reason.

For me, Rooney is in the top 5 forwards in the world. Messi, Ronaldo are out on front, and then there's Rooney, Aguero, Zlatan etc.

I honestly don't get when people say he's not world class. You'd have to have a very rigid definition of 'world class' not to have Rooney in that bracket tbh.

That's a valid point, I have always failed to quite see what others see in him whenever I watch him, but then again I watch him less that say you would Blatter. As for Top Class forwards, I'd put Messi, Ronaldo, Aguero, Villa, Benzema, RVP ahead of him, and him level with Zlatan, Robinho, Tevez. Perhaps I've been harsh with him, I dunno. Perhaps my definition of world class there was 'creme de la creme' further than top 10 or so of the world.

Nuts102 wrote: »

Where would you start Smalling. I think he is class but dont think he will be ahead of Terry or Ferdinand. At right back Richards has been brilliant this year.

Smalling should be ahead of both CB's (And will those two really play together following the racism issue?), in my view. Eng should play Lescott/Smalling, but that's purely my thoughts.

Oat23

Ganso will be a better player in Europe than Neymar.

(When/If both come to Europe)

theoneeyedman

Alec fergusons legacy is undermined imo by his frankly abysmal champions league record. His team has been in the competition each year (20 odd attempts ?) and only 2 wins, one on pens v a chelsea team with no European pedigree and a jammy win v a bayern team who sat back and smoked the cigars (didnt they take jasus off so he could get a lap of honour ).

Morricone

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Ganso will be a better player in Europe than Neymar.

(When/If both come to Europe)

Interesting, I think Ganso is a great player but in 3 years time the three best players in the world will be considere Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar in my opinion.

Fuhrer

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Alec fergusons legacy is undermined imo by his frankly abysmal champions league record. His team has been in the competition each year (20 odd attempts ?) and only 2 wins, one on pens v a chelsea team with no European pedigree and a jammy win v a bayern team who sat back and smoked the cigars (didnt they take jasus off so he could get a lap of honour ).

Well, that took longer then I thought it would

Will I Amnt

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Alec fergusons legacy is undermined imo by his frankly abysmal champions league record. His team has been in the competition each year (20 odd attempts ?) and only 2 wins, one on pens v a chelsea team with no European pedigree and a jammy win v a bayern team who sat back and smoked the cigars (didnt they take jasus off so he could get a lap of honour ).

It's not an easy competition to win.
How many teams have won it more than twice in the last 20 years?

Kirby

Personally I feel far too much is made of the hillsborough disaster and liverpool fans bang on about it far too much. Irish liverpool fans....who knew nobody at the stadium.

Yes, it was tragic. 96 people died and mistakes were made in the organisation. It wasn't good but it was over 20 years ago and people need to move on. I'm usually very careful about the company I say this in because some people get very offended so I suppose you could call it a controversial opinion. Ofcourse the same people who get on their soapbox couldn't care less about the 96 starvin marvins that died in the time it took to write the post. But there ya go.

MrStuffins

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Alec fergusons legacy is undermined imo by his frankly abysmal champions league record. His team has been in the competition each year (20 odd attempts ?) and only 2 wins, one on pens v a chelsea team with no European pedigree and a jammy win v a bayern team who sat back and smoked the cigars (didnt they take jasus off so he could get a lap of honour ).

This thread is for controversial opinions, not retarded ones!

MrStuffins

Kirby wrote: »

Personally I feel far too much is made of the hillsborough disaster and liverpool fans bang on about it far too much. Irish liverpool fans....who knew nobody at the stadium.

Yes, it was tragic. 96 people died and mistakes were made in the organisation. It wasn't good but it was over 20 years ago and people need to move on. I'm usually very careful about the company I say this in because some people get very offended so I suppose you could call it a controversial opinion. Ofcourse the same people who get on their soapbox couldn't care less about the 96 starvin marvins that died in the time it took to write the post. But there ya go.

..................

Wow!!

Morricone

Kirby wrote: »

Personally I feel far too much is made of the hillsborough disaster and liverpool fans bang on about it far too much. Irish liverpool fans....who knew nobody at the stadium.

Yes, it was tragic. 96 people died and mistakes were made in the organisation. It wasn't good but it was over 20 years ago and people need to move on. I'm usually very careful about the company I say this in because some people get very offended so I suppose you could call it a controversial opinion. Ofcourse the same people who get on their soapbox couldn't care less about the 96 starvin marvins that died in the time it took to write the post. But there ya go.

Woah..

Mr.Crinklewood

Philly Hughes is just "big boned".

greendom

Modric is over-rated. Skilful player no doubt but not enough end-product to be a truly World-class player.

eugeneious

I know I'll get absolutely slaughtered for this but anyway...

IMO Pep Guardiola is overrated or certainly hasn't done enough to earn all the plaudits he's received. Now not for one second am I one of these people who says that anyone could win with Barca but I do think nearly any half decent manager could. There's a few points I would make about him as well;

1. Obviously he has the best 1st 11 in the world with only Real Madrid coming anywhere close imo. Now thats not his fault but if you look at Rijkaard, he had slightly less success, but with an arguably much lesser 1st 11. Xavi, Messi, Iniesta and Valdes are in their prime now under Guardiola were as they weren't under Rijkaard who also had to deal with the massive egos of Ronaldinho and Deco. Remember Rijkaard also had a much weaker defence with the likes of Oleguer and Zambrotta + Marquez who were reaching the end of their careers. Rijkaard is now managing Saudia Arabia afaik.

2. His transfer record is relatively poor. Chygrynsky and Ibra were abysmal signings for the money spent (and the loss of Eto'o in the case of Ibra) He has also spent all of his transfer budget on 1 or 2 stars every season and this has actually arguably cost Barca the league this season as they haven't really strengthened their squad an awful lot, something top managers like Mourinho (signings like Altintop, Sahin etc) and Fergie (Young, Owen etc) are very good at.

3. Finally his insistence of one way of playing and that's it. This is commendable in a way as it shows his desire to have his team play the most attractive football but in football a sense of pragmatism is needed and away from home in the CL playing the way Barca do isn't always effective. (before the Madrid game last year he only had one away win in the CL knock-out rounds) this isn't a major slight on him but sometimes you have to recognise that their are more "efficient" ways of beating opponents.

So overall, yes Pep is a good manager but regularly people call him the best in the world and it really annoys me because what he has achieved, while incredible, has been done so with resources that every other manager could only dream of and I think if another big club comes in for him i.e Utd, City Chelsea etc they would be taking a much bigger risk than it might seem imo.

Blatter

G.K. wrote: »

That's a valid point, I have always failed to quite see what others see in him whenever I watch him, but then again I watch him less that say you would Blatter. As for Top Class forwards, I'd put Messi, Ronaldo, Aguero, Villa, Benzema, RVP ahead of him, and him level with Zlatan, Robinho, Tevez. Perhaps I've been harsh with him, I dunno. Perhaps my definition of world class there was 'creme de la creme' further than top 10 or so of the world.

Well I've watched pretty much every game he has ever played for United, so I should be in position to be able to give a decent view on him. :pac:

The great thing about Rooney is that he always gives 100%. Even when he's not in the best of form, he'll still work hard and track back so he always offers at least that much to the team. There's quite a few 'world class' forwards that don't have that quality and I think it's important to note.

Out of all the players you mentioned there, I'd say Rooney has the best long pass out of all of them. He regularly drops off and pings the ball 60 yards across the field with ease and opens up the game. It really is a great and rare quality to have for a deep lying forward.

I appreciate that a lot of his goals come in batches, but I think that's the same for most. Take Messi recently for example (who is probably the most consistent goalscorer of all time) and he gets a lot of his goals in batches. He's got 21 goals in his last 11 appearances but had only scored 1 in his previous 6.

Rooney has been playing at the highest level for one of the biggest clubs and has scored 78 goals in his last 119 appearances for them. Add that to all the work he does defensively, and the fact he generally plays behind a main striker which allows him to be the team's main creative force (think those 60 yard balls and intelligent link up play which helps open teams up).

I'd definitely have no qualms over calling him world class, everything considered tbh.

Kirby

MrStuffins wrote: »

..................

Wow!!

Morricone wrote: »

Woah..

Just proves my point. Two liverpool fans with the responses. Tells the story really.

Let it go lads. It was a long time ago and there have been much worse tragedies this year alone.

Blatter

greendom wrote: »

Modric is over-rated. Skilful player no doubt but not enough end-product to be a truly World-class player.

What kind of end product are you looking for from Modric?

He's a central midfield player that's meant to pull the strings from deep, not provide goals and assists.

Look at the goal/assist stats of Xavi and Iniesta over the last 3 or 4 years and they won't be much more impressive than Modric's.

Morricone

Kirby wrote: »

Just proves my point. Two liverpool fans with the responses. Tells the story really. Let it go lads. It was a long time ago and there have been much worse tragedies this year alone.

I'll try and debate this rationally and without emotion. Are you referring to the tragedy in Egypt?

Kirby

Morricone wrote: »

I'll try and debate this rationally and without emotion. Are you referring to the tragedy in Egypt?

I could list you a dozen in the last year that get less media coverage. Which is the point. It was scandalous, tragic and outrageous. Reform came because of it. It was a big moment in footballing history.

But it was decades ago and we don't need to be reminded of it with football chants nearly every game and justice for the 96 banners at every opportunity. Especially by people weren't even born at the time and other people who didn't know anybody there. It's time to move on.