Controversial Football Opinions - Mod Note #413

eugeneious

Kirby wrote: »

Just proves my point. Two liverpool fans with the responses. Tells the story really. Let it go lads. It was a long time ago and there have been much worse tragedies this year alone.

That's totally wrong of you to "de-value" a tragedy because of how long ago it was. And it's especially wrong of you to compare one tragedy to another. No human loss of life no matter how big should compared to another. Liverpool rightfully remember the incident because it had a massive impact on the club and even the whole city and imo your comments are bang out of order.

And I'm not a L'pool fan btw, far from it.

Where To

Top level footballers (any level for that matter) should have no problem playing 4-5 games per week.

Not so much controversial as unpopular :pac:

greendom

Blatter wrote: »

What kind of end product are you looking for from Modric?

He's a central midfield player that's meant to pull the strings from deep, not provide goals and assists.

Look at the goal/assist stats of Xavi and Iniesta over the last 3 or 4 years and they won't be much more impressive than Modric's.

Wouldn't mind seeing those stats, if you have them. Still I'd rate those 2 much above Modric.

MrStuffins

Kirby wrote: »

Just proves my point. Two liverpool fans with the responses. Tells the story really.

Let it go lads. It was a long time ago and there have been much worse tragedies this year alone.

Wait what? Are you trolling?

Also, what's this about us being "Liverpool fans"? I'm a Liverpool fan? How do you know that? What makes you think i'm a Liverpool fan?

Eathrin

Where To wrote: »

Top level footballers (any level for that matter) should have no problem playing 4-5 games per week.

Not so much controversial as unpopular :pac:

I agree, these guys are meant to be top athletes, yet you often hear managers going on about how a particular player needs a rest. I don't buy it.

Jesus Shaves

Heysel and Hillsborough were both the fault of liverpool fans
It's about time a proper investigation into the fans behaviour got underway

Kirby

MrStuffins wrote: »

Wait what? Are you trolling?

Also, what's this about us being "Liverpool fans"? I'm a Liverpool fan? How do you know that? What makes you think i'm a Liverpool fan?

You know I'm not because I backed up my point rationally. Don't accuse everyone with a differing opinion than you as trolling. It's juvenile. The thread title asked for genuine opinions people have that are controversial.

Personally, I feel if the tragedy had happend to the fans of Scunthorpe, it wouldn't have gotten near the amount of coverage that it has got. And thats just sad.

JPA

Blatter wrote: »

What kind of end product are you looking for from Modric?

He's a central midfield player that's meant to pull the strings from deep, not provide goals and assists.

Look at the goal/assist stats of Xavi and Iniesta over the last 3 or 4 years and they won't be much more impressive than Modric's.

They sure would be, wayyy more impressive.

theoneeyedman

Nuts102 wrote: »

djfitzerjnr wrote: »

Are you serious lol name me a centre midfielder who has played for 20 seasons in England including injury's also.

Patrick viera only played about ten years in England but then moved to Italy where he won four or five more while also having a distinguished international career winning a world cup and euro championship. In contrast scholes greatest assett is his slow burning longevity. For many years he wasn't the top midfielder at his club let alone in England, while his international carreer was short and distinguished imo

MrStuffins

Kirby wrote: »

You know I'm not because I backed up my point rationally. Don't accuse everyone with a differing opinion than you as trolling. It's juvenile. The thread title asked for genuine opinions people have that are controversial.

No you didn't. You think that because there are other tragedies all over the world, people should forget about tragedies in the past.

People whose families have died should just forget it because "it was 20 years ago". This is not "rationally".

Also, what you did was try to discount the people who didnt agree with you by saying we wer eonly doing it because we were Liverpool fans? You said this "proves my pont"? Tell me, how do you know exactly that i'm a Liverpool fan?

Morricone

Kirby wrote: »

I could list you a dozen in the last year that get less media coverage. Which is the point. It was scandalous, tragic and outrageous. Reform came because of it. It was a big moment in footballing history.

It wasn't a big moment in football history. It was a seminal moment in footballing history. Because of when it happened, one of the biggest games of the year and million and millions watching on television. 96 fans went to a game that day and never returned. That can never be forgotten.

But it was decades ago and we don't need to be reminded of it with football chants nearly every game and justice for the 96 banners at every opportunity. Especially by people weren't even born at the time and other people who didn't know anybody there. It's time to move on.

It wasn't 'decades' ago it was 23 years ago in 10 days time. The reason justice for the 96 is chanted is due to the lack of an official apology from the authorities.

Its important in life, regardless of context, to remember, and to document history. Otherwise, as a human race, we really aren't much further down the road of evoloution that apes.

By the way should the 56 who died in Bradford in 86 or the 23 in Munich or the 66 in Ibrox or the 31 from the Superga disaster be forgotten and those who remember it, should they just 'get over it'?

Blatter

greendom wrote: »

Wouldn't mind seeing those stats, if you have them. Still I'd rate those 2 much above Modric.

Oh, I'd have those two ahead of Modric for sure but Modric is that ilk of player and they aren't expected to score or assist directly, they create an awful lot from deep.

Iniesta, for example scored only 1 goal and recorded 6 assists for Barca in the 09/10 campaign yet he came second in the Ballon D'or for 2010, and was widely accepted as one of the best players in the world.

Last season Modric scored 4 goals and got 3 assists for Spurs.

This season Iniesta has 7 goals and 7 assists, Modric has 4 goals and 6 assists.

Morricone

darokane wrote: »

Heysel and Hillsborough were both the fault of liverpool fans
It's about time a proper investigation into the fans behaviour got underway

Tell me dar, in what way was Hillsborough the fault of the fans in your esteemed opinion?

Kirby

MrStuffins wrote: »

No you didn't. You think that because there are other tragedies all over the world, people should forget about tragedies in the past.

People whose families have died should just forget it because "it was 20 years ago". This is not "rationally".

Where did I say that? Family members are obviously going to hold it close to their hearts. It directly affected their lives. I have said repeatedly that its the waffling on of plastic fans.......of people who had nothing to do with the tragedy.....not familiy members. You are arguing against points nobody has made.

And I called you and Morricone Liverpool fan because thats what you are. Why would you feel insulted by this?

MrStuffins

Kirby wrote: »

And I called you Liverpool fan because thats what you are.

Link?

I assure you I am not a Liverpool fan my friend. I've no idea what made you think that!

G.K.

Blatter wrote: »

Well I've watched pretty much every game he has ever played for United, so I should be in position to be able to give a decent view on him. :pac:

The great thing about Rooney is that he always gives 100%. Even when he's not in the best of form, he'll still work hard and track back so he always offers at least that much to the team. There's quite a few 'world class' forwards that don't have that quality and I think it's important to note.

Out of all the players you mentioned there, I'd say Rooney has the best long pass out of all of them. He regularly drops off and pings the ball 60 yards across the field with ease and opens up the game. It really is a great and rare quality to have for a deep lying forward.

I appreciate that a lot of his goals come in batches, but I think that's the same for most. Take Messi recently for example (who is probably the most consistent goalscorer of all time) and he gets a lot of his goals in batches. He's got 21 goals in his last 11 appearances but had only scored 1 in his previous 6.

Rooney has been playing at the highest level for one of the biggest clubs and has scored 78 goals in his last 119 appearances for them. Add that to all the work he does defensively, and the fact he generally plays behind a main striker which allows him to be the team's main creative force (think those 60 yard balls and intelligent link up play which helps open teams up).

I'd definitely have no qualms over calling him world class, everything considered tbh.

this is a nice argument, you're certainly swaying me.

gosplan

I think the idea of rating and comparing real life players like they're some defeinitive list of stats is totally retarded.

i.e. 'Ageuro's world class but Rooney isn't' or 'Scholes is the best midfielder in the last 20 years'

Show's who's been spending too much time on fantasy manager/fifa tbh.

Warper

Alex Ferguson has never managed outside Britain. If he doesnt win a league title in another European country, then he will never be considered great. Only if he moved to Getafe or Catania and then won major trophies would i consider him to be a world class manager ala Mourinho.

Laois_Man

Cantona was kinda ****e!

Kirby

Morricone wrote: »

It wasn't a big moment in football history. It was a seminal moment in footballing history.

Thats just semantics. There are a dozen adjectives you could use. Is big not good enough?

Morricone wrote: »

By the way should the 56 who died in Bradford in 86 or the 23 in Munich or the 66 in Ibrox or the 31 from the Superga disaster be forgotten and those who remember it, should they just 'get over it'?

I never said they should "get over it." I said we don't need to be lectured to by people who have no association with it like they are some sort of expert on the subject. Which happens constantly. And I said was that those tragedies get alot less coverage. Which is true. And it's wrong.

theoneeyedman

Warper wrote: »

Alex Ferguson has never managed outside Britain. If he doesnt win a league title in another European country, then he will never be considered great. Only if he moved to Getafe or Catania and then won major trophies would i consider him to be a world class manager ala Mourinho.

It seems if you dont buy into all the hype re man utd greatness in this thread, your opinion is retarded..

Warper

theoneeyedman wrote: »

It seems if you dont buy into all the hype re man utd greatness in this thread, your opinion is retarded..

Welcome to the Soccer Forum

Blatter

JPA wrote: »

They sure would be, wayyy more impressive.

In spells, yes but you would expect that to be the case when they've had possibly the greatest player of all time playing on front of them

But there's enough statistical evidence available (see above) to show that Iniesta has and has had very similar stats to Modric, yet he still regarded as one of the best players in the world.

MrStuffins

Kirby wrote: »

I never said they should "get over it." I said we don't need to be lectured to by people who have no association with it like they are some sort of expert on the subject. Which happens constantly. And I said was that those tragedies get alot less coverage. Which is true. And it's wrong.

You repeatedly return to the point that because it was "decades ago" that that should be some sort of reason for them to STFU!

it was a tragedy and they treat it as such! So what if other tragedies happen? if someone murdered your parents, would you accept it if someone said "Oh shut up, sure there was another fella whose whole family were killed last week. Stop moaning"??

Also, link to the picture my Liverpool supporters club badge?

Morricone

Kirby wrote: »

Where did I say that? Family members are obviously going to hold it close to their hearts. It directly affected their lives. I have said repeatedly that its the waffling on of plastic fans.......of people who had nothing to do with the tragedy.....not familiy members. You are arguing against points nobody has made.

And I called you and Morricone Liverpool fan because thats what you are. Why would you feel insulted by this?

It affected everyones's life in the city of Liverpool. Everybody knew someone that died or knew someone who knew someone that died.


I've a good family friend who's a season ticket holder at Anfield. I've spoken that man, only once, about Hillsborough and saw him with tears in his eyes and the sheer emotion that filled the room as told us of the day he was in Leppings Lane. Now when you've seen that or talked to people lik hi then you can preach about 'getting over it.'

Kirby

Again, who said they should get over it? Only you. Twice. You can keep putting that in inverted comma's but I never said it. And as per usual, plastic fans just jump in with their tribalism.

You have your opnion, I have mine. There is no point in going in circles. If you didn't want to hear a controversial opinion, perhaps this isn't the thread for you. I'm sure you will find alot of people who agree with you in the Liverpool thread. Perhaps you should try there.

SantryRed

Where To wrote: »

Top level footballers (any level for that matter) should have no problem playing 4-5 games per week.

Not so much controversial as unpopular :pac:

Eathrin wrote: »

I agree, these guys are meant to be top athletes, yet you often hear managers going on about how a particular player needs a rest. I don't buy it.

Yous haven't a clue.

RasTa

Warper wrote: »

Alex Ferguson has never managed outside Britain. If he doesnt win a league title in another European country, then he will never be considered great. Only if he moved to Getafe or Catania and then won major trophies would i consider him to be a world class manager ala Mourinho.

So Mourinho is the only world class manager in the history of football? Actually this is so retarded, Porto-Chelsea-Inter-Madrid, neither of these are exactly mid table teams.

Morricone

Kirby wrote: »

I never said they should "get over it." I said we don't need to be lectured to by people who have no association with it like they are some sort of expert on the subject. Which happens constantly. And I said was that those tragedies get alot less coverage. Which is true. And it's wrong.

Of course other tragidies get less coverage! Do you think the world is fair? Why did Hurricane Katrina get far more coverage and is remembered far more than the 2004 Indian Ocean disaster?

It happened in England, the country we're mostly associated with, and it happened within living memory, 96 people died, it happened on one of the biggest televised games of the year to, at the time, the most successful club in English football. Its very hard for people to forget the sight of watching people die in front of your eyes on television. Very, very hard.

You cheapen life when you go on about it the way you do.

Who really cares if plastic fans, as you call them, remember it and chant about?

It is the seminal moment in world, and in particular English football. Everything changed after Hillsborough. Everything. Of course its gonna be remembered for fúck sake.

Red Crow

Warper wrote: »

Alex Ferguson has never managed outside Britain. If he doesnt win a league title in another European country, then he will never be considered great. Only if he moved to Getafe or Catania and then won major trophies would i consider him to be a world class manager ala Mourinho.

It says controversial not stupid.

Morricone

Kirby wrote: »

Again, who said they should get over it? Only you. Twice. You can keep putting that in inverted comma's but I never said it. And as per usual, plastic fans just jump in with their tribalism.

You have your opnion, I have mine. There is no point in going in circles. If you didn't want to hear a controversial opinion, perhaps this isn't the thread for you. I'm sure you will find alot of people who agree with you in the Liverpool thread. Perhaps you should try there.

You said 'people need to move on.'

People need to get over it

'Its only semantics.' (Kirby, 2012)

anirishlad

Kirby wrote: »

Again, who said they should get over it? Only you. Twice. You can keep putting that in inverted comma's but I never said it. And as per usual, plastic fans just jump in with their tribalism.

You have your opnion, I have mine. There is no point in going in circles. If you didn't want to hear a controversial opinion, perhaps this isn't the thread for you. I'm sure you will find alot of people who agree with you in the Liverpool thread. Perhaps you should try there.

Why do you care? Liverpool fans show respect to the 96 that died every year,i personally never talk about it but I can see why the family's are campaigning to get the government to recognise there involvement in the failure to control the situation properly.Its not a nice thing for liverpool football club to be blamed for killing there own supporters.

Kirby

Morricone wrote: »

You said 'people need to move on.'

People need to get over it

'Its only semantics.' (Kirby, 2012)

When a person you love dies, you move on. You never forget and you never get over it. You just move on. Which is why I used the words I did.

There is a huge difference. They are vastly different. When somebody you love dies you will understand.

Morricone

Kirby wrote: »

When a person you love dies, you move on. You never forget and you never get over it. You just move on. Which is why I used the words I did.

There is a huge difference. They are vastly different. When somebody you love dies you will understand.

Yeah cheers man, I guess I just don't understand, that's it I guess.

Look this is going nowhere, maybe we should all just forget it happened, and forget about all other tragidies known and unknown in the history of mankind.

citytillidie

Kirby wrote: »

Personally I feel far too much is made of the hillsborough disaster and liverpool fans bang on about it far too much. Irish liverpool fans....who knew nobody at the stadium.

Yes, it was tragic. 96 people died and mistakes were made in the organisation. It wasn't good but it was over 20 years ago and people need to move on. I'm usually very careful about the company I say this in because some people get very offended so I suppose you could call it a controversial opinion. Ofcourse the same people who get on their soapbox couldn't care less about the 96 starvin marvins that died in the time it took to write the post. But there ya go.

I view it like I view Bloody Sunday where it took years of campaigning for the families with the full backing of most people in this city to get the British government to say sorry for the lies that it spread about those killed.

Lawrence1895

For me, most managers, who were good players, fail. The reason is, they think too much from a player's perspective, feeling too much pity with weak players, giving them too many chances.

Kirby

Lars1916 wrote: »

For me, most managers, who were good players, fail. The reason is, they think too much from a player's perspective, feeling too much pity with weak players, giving them too many chances.

Tell that to Roy Keane

opr

The main thing I have taken from this thread is that a fine line exists between a controversial and a moronic opinion.

Opr

Where To

SantryRed wrote: »

Yous haven't a clue.

As I said, unpopular :pac:

theoneeyedman

RasTa wrote: »

Warper wrote: »

Alex Ferguson has never managed outside Britain. If he doesnt win a league title in another European country, then he will never be considered great. Only if he moved to Getafe or Catania and then won major trophies would i consider him to be a world class manager ala Mourinho.

So Mourinho is the only world class manager in the history of football? Actually this is so retarded, Porto-Chelsea-Inter-Madrid, neither of these are exactly mid table teams.

Told ya .....retarded :-/

NIMAN

Serie A isn't generally a boring, slow league.

I have watched many of the clashes between the top teams in the last decade, and they tend to be better for excitement, passion, tension, ability, quality etc than similar games in England.

And they tend to be fast paced too.

Will I Amnt

Lol at people using this thread to have a go at Fergie,really shows people up for how clueless they are
As for bringing up tragedies,that's not controversial,that's just inciting.
There's no need for that carry on.

RasTa

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Told ya .....retarded :-/

Please explain how his theory holds sense then?

Paully D

Zlatan Ibrahimovic is one of the best strikers in world football.

Nuri Sahin

opr wrote: »

The main thing I have taken from this thread is that a fine line exists between a controversial and a moronic opinion.

Opr

True, but it makes for comical reading, and it further cements the status of certain posters at least in my eyes for what they are. If only I had some popcorn

Nuri Sahin

G.K. wrote: »

Carragher is finished.

Wouldn't say that is controversial tbh. Most Liverpool supporters I know personally think he should retire at the end of this season. Sure, I've been saying it for over 4 years now. He kinda proved me wrong towards the 2nd half of 08/09 somewhat but besides that spell.. should have retired a few years back or at least should not have been a starting XI player as long as he has been.

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Ganso will be a better player in Europe than Neymar.

(When/If both come to Europe)

Really depends on where both move. I believe Ganso could play anywhere (top clubs obviously) and fit in. Neymar is a bit more tricker.

theoneeyedman

RasTa wrote: »

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Told ya .....retarded :-/

Please explain how his theory holds sense then?

I didnt post the theory, but just find it interesting that critism of rooney scholes and fergie are quickly branded retarded. Are they all above critisim?

RasTa

theoneeyedman wrote: »

I didnt post the theory, but just find it interesting that critism of rooskey, scholes and fergie are quickly branded retarded. Are they all above critisim?

Who is rooskey? Of course not but it depends on the criticism, did you even read what he said?

cgpg5

An opinion that I had, not really sure if it's controversial as such, was when we got relegated in 09 I feared the worst and thought we'd take years to bounce back. But here we are competing strongly for a place in Europe.

I dislike Barcelona. They have a rubbish defence. I think Guardiola has to move somewhere else to be considered a top manager.

Ronaldo never performs in big important games. He's also a terrible player to have if losing a game.

I think City are a better side than United (my opinion now, and the thread is looking for controversial ones).

David Silva has been better than RVP this season.

I think Lampard and Gerrard at their peak were better than Scholes. Keane was the best PL mid imo but he was a different type of player to the former 3.

I believe if QPR and Wolves had kept their respective managers they'd stay up, I think they'll go down now.

There is no truly great international side out there now and a shock team can easily win the Euros.

Penatly shoot outs are a cop out and an awful (if entertaining from a neutral persepcetive) way of determining who wins such important matches

Some of them maybe aren't particularly controversial but I know plenty that would disagree with them

NIMAN

Its pointless to compare players of different era's. So much changes.

I hate it when I hear "do you think Van Basten was a better striker than Eusebio".