Controversial Football Opinions - Mod Note #413

Backstreet Moyes

cgpg5 wrote: »

An opinion that I had, not really sure if it's controversial as such, was when we got relegated in 09 I feared the worst and thought we'd take years to bounce back. But here we are competing strongly for a place in Europe.

I dislike Barcelona. They have a rubbish defence. I think Guardiola has to move somewhere else to be considered a top manager.

Ronaldo never performs in big important games. He's also a terrible player to have if losing a game.

I think City are a better side than United (my opinion now, and the thread is looking for controversial ones).

David Silva has been better than RVP this season.



I think Lampard and Gerrard at their peak were better than Scholes. Keane was the best PL mid imo but he was a different type of player to the former 3.

I believe if QPR and Wolves had kept their respective managers they'd stay up, I think they'll go down now.

There is no truly great international side out there now and a shock team can easily win the Euros.

Some of them maybe aren't particularly controversial but I know plenty that would disagree with them

If the season ended in December Silva had a small chance. He has been average at best lately and a big part of the reason City are falling apart. If the season started in Janruary than Valencia would be player of the year. Its over a full season and RVP truly deserves the award.

Backstreet Moyes

NIMAN wrote: »

Its pointless to compare players of different era's. So much changes.

I hate it when I hear "do you think Van Basten was a better striker than Eusebio".

Who do you think is better???????????????????????//

Oranage2

- I dont see how people can love a football club as much as they claim esp Irish people and English clubs.

- I think football tattoos are stupid.

- I dont know how so many people get so offended with things like Hillsborough and Munich are brought up, sure it was tragic but does it really affect you?

- I hate Barca, I think they're cheating girly men.

bullvine

Gianfranco Zola and David Ginola are the most overated players in premiership history

Zidane had a average club career

Original Ronaldo would have been a better player than Messi only for the injuries

Lampard was a world class player in his prime

Evra was a better full back than Irwin for United

United 99 team should have ruled Europe for a couple of years only for Fergie not buying VDS and Ferdinand or Sol Campbell in the Summer of 99

RVP is the best striker since Van Basten

cgpg5

Nuts102 wrote: »

If the season ended in December Silva had a small chance. He has been average at best lately and a big part of the reason City are falling apart. If the season started in Janruary than Valencia would be player of the year. Its over a full season and RVP truly deserves the award.

Yeah Valencia has been some player alright. That's very valid about Silva it seems him not ticking recently and City's recent slip are mutually exclusive alright. Just think his all roung game has been outstanding but it is quite difficult to compare him and RVP in all honesty, two completely different players. Generally that PFA player of the year is a joke anyway!

klose

Paully D wrote: »

Zlatan Ibrahimovic is one of the best strikers in world football.

He needs to lose that stupid facial hair and pony tail, looks ridiculous!

I dont see much of him but when i do (mostly champions league) i was never in awe or amazed by him so im not in any real position to comment but looking up his stats they dont lie and as long as your scoring goals as a striker your doing your job...

Ronin247

England never won a world cup.......In the quarter finals the German ref sent off Antonio Rattin, the Argentinian captain and one of their best players.The ref initially said it was for bad language but when it was pointed out that he (the ref) spoke no Spanish and Rattin spoke no german the ref then said " he didn't like the look of him".More likely he was paid to let England "win" because it was in England.

cgpg5

bullvine wrote: »

Gianfranco Zola and David Ginola are the most overated players in premiership history

Zidane had a average club career

Original Ronaldo would have been a better player than Messi only for the injuries

Lampard was a world class player in his prime

Evra was a better full back than Irwin for United

United 99 team should have ruled Europe for a couple of years only for Fergie not buying VDS and Ferdinand or Sol Campbell in the Summer of 99

RVP is the best striker since Van Basten

There have been two better strikers at Arsenal better than RVP since Van Basten.

NIMAN

Nuts102 wrote: »

If the season ended in December Silva had a small chance. He has been average at best lately and a big part of the reason City are falling apart. If the season started in Janruary than Valencia would be player of the year. Its over a full season and RVP truly deserves the award.

You seen RVP recently?;)

Morzadec

- A rule should be introduced of 'minor fouls' in the box, with a resultant free-kick inside the box given, distinguished from 'major fouls' which should be penalties. A minor foul and free kick could be awarded at the referees discretion but would be awarded for such things as ball-to-hand incidents (accidental handballs), excessive shoving/holding in the box which is not deemed to have denied a goal scoring chance.

- Keeping the ball in the corner should be banned. At the referees discretion, if he thinks a team are deliberately keeping the ball in the corner to waste time, he can award a free kick to the opposing team.

- The issue of 'diving' is not as black and white as a lot of people make out.

- Attacking players who go down easy and make the most of contact are no worse or more morally corrupt than defending players who deliberately foul in such a way that they escape booking or sometimes aren't called up on it. One is an accepted form of gamesmanship and is seen at worst as wily and cunning, while the other is seen as 'disgusting' and completely immoral.

- Diving and making the most of contact is a natural conclusion of flaws in the rules of the game and of refereeing in general. For example, a slight bit of contact (technically speaking a foul) that trpis a player enough to make them stumble but not enough to make them fall can put a player off enough that what would have been a near certain goal is suddenly made into a very difficult chance if he stays on his feet. If he goes down from the contact and is rewarded with a penalty, he is given a better chance at a goal. A referee will not give a penalty for a slight foul like this if the player does not go down.

G.K.

Morzadec wrote: »

- A rule should be introduced of 'minor fouls' in the box, with a resultant free-kick inside the box given, distinguished from 'major fouls' which should be penalties. A minor foul and free kick could be awarded at the referees discretion but would be awarded for such things as ball-to-hand incidents (accidental handballs), excessive shoving/holding in the box which is not deemed to have denied a goal scoring chance.

- Keeping the ball in the corner should be banned. At the referees discretion, if he thinks a team are deliberately keeping the ball in the corner to waste time, he can award a free kick to the opposing team.

- The issue of 'diving' is not as black and white as a lot of people make out.

- Attacking players who go down easy and make the most of contact are no worse or more morally corrupt than defending players who deliberately foul in such a way that they escape booking or sometimes aren't called up on it. One is an accepted form of gamesmanship and is seen at worst as wily and cunning, while the other is seen as 'disgusting' and completely immoral.

- Diving and making the most of contact is a natural conclusion of flaws in the rules of the game and of refereeing in general. For example, a slight bit of contact (technically speaking a foul) that trpis a player enough to make them stumble but not enough to make them fall can put a player off enough that what would have been a near certain goal is suddenly made into a very difficult chance if he stays on his feet. If he goes down from the contact and is rewarded with a penalty, he is given a better chance at a goal. A referee will not give a penalty for a slight foul like this if the player does not go down.

What you described where I bolded it isn't a foul at all.

cgpg5

Morzadec wrote: »

- A rule should be introduced of 'minor fouls' in the box, with a resultant free-kick inside the box given, distinguished from 'major fouls' which should be penalties. A minor foul and free kick could be awarded at the referees discretion but would be awarded for such things as ball-to-hand incidents (accidental handballs), excessive shoving/holding in the box which is not deemed to have denied a goal scoring chance.

- Keeping the ball in the corner should be banned. At the referees discretion, if he thinks a team are deliberately keeping the ball in the corner to waste time, he can award a free kick to the opposing team.

- The issue of 'diving' is not as black and white as a lot of people make out.

- Attacking players who go down easy and make the most of contact are no worse or more morally corrupt than defending players who deliberately foul in such a way that they escape booking or sometimes aren't called up on it. One is an accepted form of gamesmanship and is seen at worst as wily and cunning, while the other is seen as 'disgusting' and completely immoral.

- Diving and making the most of contact is a natural conclusion of flaws in the rules of the game and of refereeing in general. For example, a slight bit of contact (technically speaking a foul) that trpis a player enough to make them stumble but not enough to make them fall can put a player off enough that what would have been a near certain goal is suddenly made into a very difficult chance if he stays on his feet. If he goes down from the contact and is rewarded with a penalty, he is given a better chance at a goal. A referee will not give a penalty for a slight foul like this if the player does not go down.

Yeah I hate this but how can you ban it really? The ball is in play, there is technically nothing stopping anyone doing it at any stage in the game. You can't just have rules for something like this at certain times in the match unfortunately. No subs being allowed to come on in injury time would help. Unfortunately stopping the clock in soccer would prove problematic but I feel it could at least be experimented for use with injuries only.

Morzadec

- Going to watch a team play live in a stadium regularly will not - despite the atmosphere, chants, feeling of a live game - make you feel especially passionate about that team, like you 'belong' and certainly can not replace years of barstooling a different team.

Laois_Man

Laois_Man wrote: »

Cantona was kinda ****e!

Yeah man, you're 100% on the ball with that one...

Morzadec

cgpg5 wrote: »

Yeah I hate this but how can you ban it really? The ball is in play, there is technically nothing stopping anyone doing it at any stage in the game. You can't just have rules for something like this at certain times in the match unfortunately. No subs being allowed to come on in injury time would help. Unfortunately stopping the clock in soccer would prove problematic but I feel it could at least be experimented for use with injuries only.

Like I said it could be at the referees discretion. We all know when a player is doing it. I'd like more common sense to be applied in general in football.

If there had to be a technical rule, then maybe when it is deemed that the player is not playing the ball. Like he can dribble to the corner and then pass it back to a teammate, but once he starts assing opponents out of the way, back to goal while ball remains stationary, this could be blown up as a foul. In fairness i think a lot of referees give a fair amount of benefit of the doubt to the team trying to retrieve the ball in these situations anyway, but it'd be good if they went a step further.

The Floyd p

Cantona wasn't even in the top 3 best French players to play in the PL.

Morzadec

G.K. wrote: »

What you described where I bolded it isn't a foul at all.

I know it isn't but how many times do you see them blown up? I think it needs to be cleared up. Most people aren't even aware that it's not a foul. I play in a 5-a-side league without a ref and captains have to come together to make a decision. We had a controversial one recently when the ball was going towards the goal and hit the limp hand of one of our players, hand down by his side. It was 100% not deliberate and his hand was not in a reckless position, it was in a completely natural position, limp down by his sides.

Most of the onlookers said it was a penalty.

This is a definite issue even if the rules are clear. How many times do you see a penalty given for a handball that looks very accidental?

Why does Ivanovic put his hands behind his back defending this goal if he was 100% sure that he wouldn't be punished for any accidental handball that might occur?

http://watchhighlightsonline.blogspot.com.es/2012/02/video-chicharito-javier-hernandez-goal.html

Also, going back to my earlier example in the 5-a-side game, while I thought the penalty was harsh on us, no penalty would have been harsh on them also. Their header was going towards goal and on target. Difficult to say if it would have gone in, but the ball was impeded, however accidentally, by the an illegal part of the body. It's harsh on them to get nothing. it's harsh on is to give them an almost guaranteed goal. that's why I'd like to see free-kicks given for these incidents.

NIMAN

The Floyd p wrote: »

Cantona wasn't even in the top 3 best French players to play in the PL.

Doesn't make him ****e though.

Anyone who says Cantona was ****e is just a troll and should not ever post again in a Soccer related thread.

cgpg5

Morzadec wrote: »

Like I said it could be at the referees discretion. We all know when a player is doing it. I'd like more common sense to be applied in general in football.

If there had to be a technical rule, then maybe when it is deemed that the player is not playing the ball. Like he can dribble to the corner and then pass it back to a teammate, but once he starts assing opponents out of the way, back to goal while ball remains stationary, this could be blown up as a foul. In fairness i think a lot of referees give a fair amount of benefit of the doubt to the team trying to retrieve the ball in these situations anyway, but it'd be good if they went a step further.

Yeah I agree I'd love to see some sort of rule implemented as I hate seeing it. Can't see it happening unfortunately though.

As I outlined earlier, stopping the clock for injuries, subs and "injuries" has to be looked into!

cgpg5

The Floyd p wrote: »

Cantona wasn't even in the top 3 best French players to play in the PL.

Henry, Vieira perhaps, ah who else?

Backstreet Moyes

NIMAN wrote: »

You seen RVP recently?;)

Ye iv seen him have you he got a few assists. Just because he hasnt scored in around 3 games doesnt mean he has been poor. The man has almost by himself carried Arsenal this season and deserves player of the year. What would be scary is what his goal ratio would be like at Madrid or Barca. Or even at City pisses all over Aguero, Tezev, Balotelli and Dzeko and no im not an Arsenal fan.

lempsipmax

Getting upset or excited about football matches in which hired millionaires play for teams with which they typically have only a professional arrangement representing areas which you typically have no connection is actually understandable, but not sensible.

The Floyd p

The Floyd p wrote: »

Cantona wasn't even in the top 3 best French players to play in the PL.

Says who?

niallo27

That unless you are born and bred in that city you are not allowed to feel any passion towards a club or any sort of feeling towards them, its the horse**** line peddled by some LOI fans who seem very bitter indeed. I,m from clare, i have no football around me, i have very little interest in the Irish team.

niallo27

cgpg5 wrote: »

Henry, Vieira perhaps, ah who else?

Ngog.

Kirby

niallo27 wrote: »

Ngog.

You can't be serious. You honestly think Ngog is a better player than Cantona. Really??? :eek:

cgpg5

niallo27 wrote: »

Ngog.

Forgive me I had been looking more towards the nineties I missed out on lads like Ngog and David Bellion

cgpg5

Kirby wrote: »

You can't be serious. You honestly think Ngog is a better player than Cantona. Really??? :eek:

Please say you're joking...

Morzadec

Kirby wrote: »

You can't be serious. You honestly think Ngog is a better player than Cantona. Really??? :eek:

Worst example ever of a malfunctioning sarcasm detector??

The Floyd p

NIMAN wrote: »

Doesn't make him ****e though.

Anyone who says Cantona was ****e is just a troll and should not ever post again in a Soccer related thread.

Not at all, fine player he was, but would have Henry, Viera and Pires ahead of him.

dreamers75

The Floyd p wrote: »

Cantona wasn't even in the top 3 best French players to play in the PL.

Now no......then yes.....stupid argument.

Watch cantona attempts at playing in europe and you see he was a poor player playing in a poor league that made him a god.

MrStuffins

NIMAN wrote: »

The Floyd p wrote: »

Cantona wasn't even in the top 3 best French players to play in the PL.

Doesn't make him ****e though.

Anyone who says Cantona was ****e is just a troll and should not ever post again in a Soccer related thread.

Cantona is/was terribly over rated

The Floyd p

dreamers75 wrote: »

Now no......then yes.....stupid argument.

Watch cantona attempts at playing in europe and you see he was a poor player playing in a poor league that made him a god.

kevohmsford

England will win the 2012 UEFA European Championship.

Jimmy Iovine

Gareth Bale will never be truly world class in the shape of a Ronaldo or a Messi. He's a great player but I think he'll stay at that. He'll be in the category below world class.

He is lightening quick but if you manage to negate that element of his game then I think he struggles. He does not have a trick in his repertoire like Messi, Ronaldo or even Nani do to get away from the touchline and past 2/3 players. Maybe he does have the ability to do it but I haven't seen him doing so yet.

The goals he scored against Inter were all basically the same. For two of them he just ran as fast as he could and hit it across the keeper. For the third he was played in and then he just hit it across the keeper again. They were good goals and the pace he ran at was astonishing but the keeper really should have done more to try and save the shots. To be beaten by the exact same shot three times in a row is nothing short of criminal.

The media hype around him is ridiculous in my opinion. He really has achieved nothing in football and all of a sudden Chris Coleman is claiming that he is almost as good as Cristiano Ronaldo. This is the same Bale that for 2 years was never on the winning side in a league match. He has to improve continuously for another 3-4 years to be even mentioned in the same category as Ronaldo.

I don't know if he will make the move in field. It'd be a pity because once he runs past his marker then he has a wicked cross on him. It's hard to say whether he could ever develop into the same goalscorer that Ronaldo and Messi have after their move in off of the wings.

He seems like a really nice guy and this will undoubtedly increase the media's, and in particular Sky Sports, love affair with him. Thank god he is not English or else the hype would be beyond unbearable.

I wish him all the luck in the world. Hopefully he can avoid injuries to his legs, especially his hamstrings. He is a joy to watch as long as he isn't playing against United :P.

The Floyd p

kevohmsford wrote: »

England will win 2012 UEFA European Championship.

dreamers75

The Floyd p wrote: »

Now he is not.
Then he was
Stupid argument

The Floyd p

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Gareth Bale will never be truly world class in the shape of a Ronaldo or a Messi. He's a great player but I think he'll stay at that. He'll be in the category below world class.

He is lightening quick but if you manage to negate that element of his game then I think he struggles. He does not have a trick in his repertoire like Nani or Ronaldo do to get away from the touchline and past 2/3 players. Maybe he does have the ability to do it but I haven't seen him doing so yet.

The goals he scored against Inter were all basically the same. For two of them he just ran as fast as he could and hit it across the keeper. For the third he was played in and then he just hit it across the keeper again. They were good goals and the pace he ran at was astonishing but the keeper really should have done more to try and save the shots. To be beaten by the exact same shot three times in a row is nothing short of criminal.

The media hype around him is ridiculous in my opinion. He really has achieved nothing in football and all of a sudden Chris Coleman is claiming that he is almost as good as Cristiano Ronaldo. This is the same Bale that for 2 years was never on the winning side in a league match. He has to improve continuously for another 3-4 years to be even mentioned in the same category as Ronaldo.

I don't know if he will make the move in field. It'd be a pity because once he runs past his marker then he has a wicked cross on him. It's hard to say whether he could ever develop into the same goalscorer that Ronaldo and Messi have after their move in off of the wings.

He seems like a really nice guy and this will undoubtedly increase the media's, and in particular Sky Sports, love affair with him. Thank god he is not English or else the hype would be beyond unbearable.

I wish him all the luck in the world. Hopefully he can avoid injuries to his legs, especially his hamstrings. He is a joy to watch as long as he isn't playing against United :P.

I remember seeing Bale vs Messi stats after that HT vs Inter on SSN.

dreamers75

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Gareth Bale will never be truly world class in the shape of a Ronaldo or a Messi. He's a great player but I think he'll stay at that. He'll be in the category below world class.

He is lightening quick but if you manage to negate that element of his game then I think he struggles. He does not have a trick in his repertoire like Messi, Ronaldo or even Nani do to get away from the touchline and past 2/3 players. Maybe he does have the ability to do it but I haven't seen him doing so yet.

The goals he scored against Inter were all basically the same. For two of them he just ran as fast as he could and hit it across the keeper. For the third he was played in and then he just hit it across the keeper again. They were good goals and the pace he ran at was astonishing but the keeper really should have done more to try and save the shots. To be beaten by the exact same shot three times in a row is nothing short of criminal.

The media hype around him is ridiculous in my opinion. He really has achieved nothing in football and all of a sudden Chris Coleman is claiming that he is almost as good as Cristiano Ronaldo. This is the same Bale that for 2 years was never on the winning side in a league match. He has to improve continuously for another 3-4 years to be even mentioned in the same category as Ronaldo.

I don't know if he will make the move in field. It'd be a pity because once he runs past his marker then he has a wicked cross on him. It's hard to say whether he could ever develop into the same goalscorer that Ronaldo and Messi have after their move in off of the wings.

He seems like a really nice guy and this will undoubtedly increase the media's, and in particular Sky Sports, love affair with him. Thank god he is not English or else the hype would be beyond unbearable.

I wish him all the luck in the world. Hopefully he can avoid injuries to his legs, especially his hamstrings. He is a joy to watch as long as he isn't playing against United :P.

What he said +1

Push it by him and run......my kid is 10 and im telling him it wont work all the time.

SantryRed

amy21 wrote: »

That unless you are born and bred in that city you are not allowed to feel any passion towards a club or any sort of feeling towards them, its the horse**** line peddled by some LOI fans who seem very bitter indeed. I,m from clare, i have no football around me, i have very little interest in the Irish team.

I am of the opinion that people with the opinion above are retarded. They have no team in the county they live in so they support a team in a different country.

The Floyd p

dreamers75 wrote: »

Now he is not.
Then he was
Stupid argument

Becasue he was one of the first

More technically gifted footballers have graced the premier league than Cantona

Overrated. A very good player, but not as good as some United fans would have you believe.

Carlos_Ray

Andrea Pirlo is the best playmaker of his generation.

George best was horribly overrated and shouldn't even feature among the top 20 players of all time.

Ian harte should be re-called to the Irish squad to replace Ward for the euros.

dreamers75

The Floyd p wrote: »

Becasue he was one of the first .

More technically gifted footballers have graced the premier league than Cantona

Overrated. A very good player, but not as good as some United fans would have you believe.

you realise im agreeing with you ?

The Floyd p

dreamers75 wrote: »

you realise im agreeing with you ?

I thought you were saying my point about him not being in the top 3 French players was stupid.

dreamers75

The Floyd p wrote: »

I thought you were saying my point about him not being in the top 3 French players was stupid.

the argument that he was is stupid.

Jimmy Iovine

The Floyd p wrote: »

I remember seeing Bale vs Messi stats after that HT vs Inter on SSN.

It's sad really. It's putting unbelievable pressure on the guy. There are people who would genuinely believe that he is in the same category as Messi if Sky Sports told them that he is.

Messi scored a HT against Real Madrid in an El Classico at age 19. The goals may not have been as spectacular as Bale's sprints past Maicon were but in the grand scheme of things I think it was a much bigger statement of intent. Messi kicked on from there and really went about staking a claim as the best player in the world.

Bale needs to really step it up next season imo. He has great potential but he needs to add a lot to his game and not to rely on his speed as much.

The Floyd p

dreamers75 wrote: »

the argument that he was is stupid.

So you agree with the basis of what I'm saying, but not the method I chose to word it in?

The Floyd p

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

It's sad really. It's putting unbelievable pressure on the guy. There are people who would genuinely believe that he is in the same category as Messi if Sky Sports told them that he is.

Messi scored a HT against Real Madrid in an El Classico at age 19. The goals may not have been as spectacular as Bale's sprints past Maicon were but in the grand scheme of things I think it was a much bigger statement of intent. Messi kicked on from there and really went about staking a claim as the best player in the world.

Bale needs to really step it up next season imo. He has great potential but he needs to add a lot to his game and not to rely on his speed as much.

He does show flashes or real technical quality (goals against Stoke I think, and Man City) but not as often as someone like Messi, that's most certainly true.

Father Damo

Tusky wrote: »

Agreed. Messi needs to sign for Newcastle before he can truly be considered the greatest of all time.

Sweet suffering jaysus. Some of the bollix that gets posted on here would have you in tears if it wasn't so hilarious.

Amazing. A post about the greatest player of the decade is responded to by one of the greatest put downs of the year :pac:


As for mine, Anderson was the most grossly overrated player to play for a top 4 team until....well....people stopped rating him.

I think Nani has always had the makings of a top class player.

Also, if this thread was created on the day he took over, I would have been saying Dalglish will be an absoloute disaster at Liverpool. Seeing as the rest of the world apart from me seemed to bizarrely regard his appointment at the time as the second coming of the messiah, it would have been considered controversial back then

Paully D

Mike Ashley has done an excellent job with Newcastle.