Donated organs leave Ireland?

Smidge

ProfessorWeeto wrote: »

By all means I'm no expert too
But I cant just help but feel that maybe there is a financial / business aspect to all this.

Sure, as we all know if you've got the money you will get your organ quicker than being on any waiting list. And i'm pretty sure that quickness comes about by paying top dollar

So i dunno, maybe alot of these organs being exported, perhaps beyond ones being rare, are done so because someone is paying top dollar and there for the normal joe blow on the list next in line gets shafted.

Larry Hagman has had several livers(among other bits and pieces)so its not that far a stretch to believe that the wealthy can unduly profit from organ donation. What are the chances with such a high donation rate here that time after time no-one fits the bill??

AlmightyCushion

token101 wrote: »

Considering the amount of suicides/car accidents/people who die from anything but total organ failure, it would be a lot. The nurse would always ask anyone eligible when they tell you the person is dead. I'd say a lot of people would consent.

I thought that once the heart stops beating the organs can't be donated so they're only useful in the case of people who are brain dead.

mishkalucy wrote: »

According to the Organ Procurement Agency in Ireland we have donation of 20.3 pmp here so it's pretty high

So, that's less than 100 per year. It may be relatively high per million compared to other countries but overall it's a small amount so (to me any ways) I wouldn't be surprised if most of them were exported due to unsuitability even knowing very little about the subject. I'd be interested in hearing from someone more experienced on the topic though.

Smidge

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I thought that once the heart stops beating the organs can't be donated so they're only useful in the case of people who are brain dead.



So, that's less than 100 per year. It may be relatively high per million compared to other countries but overall it's a small amount so (to me any ways) I wouldn't be surprised if most of them were exported due to unsuitability even knowing very little about the subject. I'd be interested in hearing from someone more experienced on the topic though.

The OPA only take organs from people who are on ventilators so technically brain dead. The body can then be held in a living state for long enough to harvest the organs I guess

jumpguy

It has to be done on priority. There are extensive waiting lists in almost every country (interestingly, I think Iran has one of the shortest waiting lists because organs are paid for i.e. you will be paid to donate that extra kidney).

If we have organ-swapping agreements with a country and someone in that is sicker than someone in Ireland and needs the organ ASAP, then it'd be absolutely inhumane for us to not give it to them. That gives us organs and if an Irish person is on top of the list, an Irish person will get it, and vice versa. It makes sense.

Taking a bit of tangent with this thread, I'd be in support of setting up an organ donation market, which'd be the State (or private health insurer) paying people who want to to donate part of (in the case of liver) or a whole organ (kidney). It'd dramatically cut waiting lists, and I'm sure it'd be a lot lighter on the exchequer than all those people on long-term dialysis.

Smidge

jumpguy wrote: »

It has to be done on priority. There are extensive waiting lists in almost every country (interestingly, I think Iran has one of the shortest waiting lists because organs are paid for i.e. you will be paid to donate that extra kidney).

If we have organ-swapping agreements with a country and someone in that is sicker than someone in Ireland and needs the organ ASAP, then it'd be absolutely inhumane for us to not give it to them. That gives us organs and if an Irish person is on top of the list, an Irish person will get it, and vice versa. It makes sense.

Taking a bit of tangent with this thread, I'd be in support of setting up an organ donation market, which'd be the State (or private health insurer) paying people who want to to donate part of (in the case of liver) or a whole organ (kidney). It'd dramatically cut waiting lists, and I'm sure it'd be a lot lighter on the exchequer than all those people on long-term dialysis.

I remember watching an episode of "QI" some time ago and they did an "Estimate" of what your body was worth if sold lock stock. Was very interesting stuff

mlumley

It's done on best match, not where you come from. You can put all the organs you want into some one, but if it dont match they wont survive.

By the way, I didnt see you complain about the organs donated to Irish people from abroad. Open your mind, there is more in the world than just Ireland. Would you turn down an organ from another country cos it wasnt Irish and gave you a chance to live? THOUGHT NOT.

uch

There's an Organ in the church in Booterstown, try transplanting that

Leeg17

Dey tuk er Kidneys!?!

token101

mishkalucy wrote: »

IIRC you brought up the nationality thing, not me. My point was that there are so many people here requiring organ transplantation surely they would be our priority(not withstanding suitability)

You started a thread entitled 'Donated organs leave Ireland'...and then make the statement in bold.....and I brought up the nationality thing? Fair enough love :pac:

jumpguy

mishkalucy wrote: »

I remember watching an episode of "QI" some time ago and they did an "Estimate" of what your body was worth if sold lock stock. Was very interesting stuff

I think if a system of paid organ donation was ever to be established, it can NOT be done on a market system (highest bidder gets organ and so on) because it'd mean only the rich get off the transplant list first. If you look up the annual costs of dialysis per year per patient though, hemodialysis costs 72,000$ per patient per annum according to this..

If the HSE paid 10,000€ to people to donate their spare kidney, not only would they save a massive amount of money but would also drastically cut the transplant list.

token101

jumpguy wrote: »

If the HSE paid 10,000€ to people to donate their spare kidney, not only would they save a massive amount of money but would also drastically cut the transplant list.

It's a bit wrong though! I mean if you're a parent and can't feed your family, it would almost denigrate to a situation where this was normal and where you would be expected to do so eventually! Surely the dole/charity should be your answer? Not selling your organs FFS!

And €10,000???? People get more in tax rebates!!

jumpguy

token101 wrote: »

It's a bit wrong though! I mean if you're a parent and can't feed your family, it would almost denigrate to a situation where this was normal and where you would be expected to do so eventually! Surely the dole/charity should be your answer? Not selling your organs FFS!

And €10,000???? People get more in tax rebates!!

This is the chief reason it has been rejected in the past - it is seen as "wrong" that a person may "stoop" to sell their kidney. I can understand their argument but from a logical perspective it doesn't make sense. Extracting a kidney is a very safe and commonly-done procedure, and you won't feel different when it's gone. I'd consider it more of a social stigma that donating a kidney to get some money is seen as desperate.

Depending on whether their kidney is suitable, donating would be an option instead of the dole or charity. Not only would it probably save someone's life, it would give you a windfall, the government would save money. It's win-win-win.

72,000$ translates in just over 55,000€. That could easily be 25,000€ instead of 10,000€.

token101

jumpguy wrote: »

This is the chief reason it has been rejected in the past - it is seen as "wrong" that a person may "stoop" to sell their kidney. I can understand their argument but from a logical perspective it doesn't make sense. Extracting a kidney is a very safe and commonly-done procedure, and you won't feel different when it's gone. I'd consider it more of a social taboo that donating a kidney to get some money is seen as desperate.

Depending on whether their kidney is suitable, donating would be an option instead of the dole or charity. Not only would it probably save someone's life, it would give you a windfall, the government would save money. It's win-win-win.

72,000$ translates in just over 55,000€. That could easily be 25,000€ instead of 10,000€.

Well, if you're after logic: if you're into sports you can't play anymore. Contact ones anyway. And it's the same as doing medical research; it's a gamble with your life for a few quid. If your other kidney packs up, you're f***ed. And if you sold a kidney, you're unlikely to afford another!

jumpguy

token101 wrote: »

Well, if you're after logic: if you're into sports you can't play anymore. Contact ones anyway. And it's the same as doing medical research; it's a gamble with your life for a few quid. If your other kidney packs up, you're f***ed. And if you sold a kidney, you're unlikely to afford another!

If your other kidney packs up (which is likely enough to be due to a reason that'd have caused both kidneys to pack up anyway) then you'd be in great luck to be in a country where there's almost no waiting list for a new kidney thanks to an incentivised kidney donation market. :P

If you're big into your contact sports, then you don't donate your kidney. Simple.

You can't really compare a long tried-and-tested procedure like kidney donation to taking new, untested drugs. I can't compare risks since I don't know what exactly the risk is in drug tests, but I would expect kidney donation has a far lesser risk of death.

Also, taking part in drug tests and kidney donation both contribute massively improving people's health, drug tests being in the long run (we need new drugs), and kidney donation having obvious immediate benefits.

FouxDaFaFa

Spain have a much more efficent donation system than we do, I don't think they need the organs tbh.
Source being my Mum, who waited for a kidney for two and a half years. Once, she was called but the organ failed/could not be used. I would imagine that happens a lot. She was lucky enough to get a kidney the second time around. Irish donor.

token101

jumpguy wrote: »

If your other kidney packs up (which is likely enough to be due to a reason that'd have caused both kidneys to pack up anyway) then you'd be in great luck to be in a country where there's almost no waiting list for a new kidney thanks to an incentivised kidney donation market. :P

If you're big into your contact sports, then you don't donate your kidney. Simple.

You can't really compare a long tried-and-tested procedure like kidney donation to taking new, untested drugs. I can't compare risks since I don't know what exactly the risk is in drug tests, but I would expect kidney donation has a far lesser risk of death.

Also, taking part in drug tests and kidney donation both contribute massively improving people's health, drug tests being in the long run (we need new drugs), and kidney donation having obvious immediate benefits.

Not saying you're wrong in any of that, but I personally think it's wrong. Maybe it's just a bit taboo atm, you could be a visionary for all I know. If I ever need a kidney, I'll PM you with the cash ready

It'd be a bit weird though wouldn't it? I mean the nature of it would be that you'd be stuck for cash (I'm assuming because it's the only reason I can think you'd do it other than for family/friends). So you rock up to the clinic, they do the tests, and might say 'Well we don't actually need your kidney right now, so you go home and we'll call you when we have a patient that will be a match'. Six months later they call and let's say your circumstances have changed.
'Hey, we need your kidney now. Can you come in today?'.

'Eh I'm working now......so......No!'. or.......

'I went to the the USA after I met ye and got a better price....so....Sorry!'

_AVALANCHE_

44leto wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

eh....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

^^That's my considered response.

pragmatic1

Peetrik wrote: »

What you only consent to save Irish lives and wouldn't want Spanish peoples lives to be saved with your organs?

I'd prefer if they went to help Irish people first.

shopaholic01

Just saw in the 'strange news' section of Sky news active that a 17yr old in China sold one of his kidneys to buy an iphone and ipad - now thats sad:(

_AVALANCHE_

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Just saw in the 'strange news' section of Sky news active that a 17yr old in China sold one of his kidneys to buy an iphone and ipad - now thats sad:(

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126172/Five-people-charged-Chinese-teenager-sells-kidney-fund-iPad-iPhone.html

Smidge

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Just saw in the 'strange news' section of Sky news active that a 17yr old in China sold one of his kidneys to buy an iphone and ipad - now thats sad:(

Are you sure it wasn't his eyes he sold for the ipad, the latest one has retina display;)

LH Pathe

I have an old wurltzer in the garage, n seein as my rock n roll days r over would like to donate it to an impoverished boy in Malawi.

Problem?

Smidge

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Spain have a much more efficent donation system than we do, I don't think they need the organs tbh.
Source being my Mum, who waited for a kidney for two and a half years. Once, she was called but the organ failed/could not be used. I would imagine that happens a lot. She was lucky enough to get a kidney the second time around. Irish donor.

I agree, Spain has a great healthcare system. Your mother had her transplant here?
Incidently, there were 248 transplants done here last year

endacl

What a dopey thread. I wouldn't usually bother posting on a dopey thread, but this one takes the dopey biscuit. Is there some kind of annual award? I'm relatively new to boards, but would certainly nominate the opening post....

Is the OP seriously suggesting that a viable organ, which may only remain viable for a time period measured in hours, and in the absence of a matching recipient in this jurisdiction, should NOT be sent out of the country? Really? The bin would be a better destination if there was no suitable Irish recipient available?

I don't care where my organs go if, (insert imaginary deity) forbid, I go before my time, once its into a living person, and not the bin! Because there was no Irish person who matched. They don't freeze you know. Use it, or bin it.

Seriously? There's no dopey post award?

Smidge

Okay, Pram, toys.
I was not suggesting that they should not go any where to anyone. I was asking if other than the inter-channel arrangement that we have with the UK was anyone aware of Irish organs going as far a field as Spain. Jeez Louise

endacl

I would like to think someone in the same country as myself would get first dibs on my innards when I pop my clogs as I guess most people would.;)[/Quote]

Not a pram in sight. I didn't base the response on your first post alone.'Dibs' on organs?

Hypothetical: What if somebody travels out of the jurisdiction for a transplant to, say, France? Would there be a thread on here asking if a French person should have had 'dibs'? Or would peoples natural, human reaction be to wish whoever all the best as they flew our for their French kidney, heart or lung?

Dibs?

MJRS

In fairness, you did make the generalisation that most people would prefer to have Irish organs for the Irish (BNP-esque), which most people have refuted. Your point wasn't just about Spain.

endacl

MJRS wrote: »

In fairness, you did make the generalisation that most people would prefer to have Irish organs for the Irish (BNP-esque), which most people have refuted. Your point wasn't just about Spain.

And only for the green Irish I'd imagine....