The money will be just resting in my account

Rabidlamb

Short version of story:

Neighbour in mortgage difficulty, already resigned to losing house, been unemployed for 3 years & will emigrate once "free rent" moratorium is up.
He has €15k in cash savings which he's put by to establish himself & his family in their new life abroad.
He has asked me to accept a gift of this money, lodge it then send it on to him once the time is right.

He makes a solid argument that if the bank became aware of these funds they would demand they be used to offset the mortgage shortfall.
To him this is the equivalent of burning the cash as he's already given up on the house.

A few things, I realise I may be party to some offence but I don't give a flying f-ck seeing how the banks have treated the people, in fact I would quite enjoy giving them the 2 fingers.
The end game could still be 2 years down the line.

Question. What would you do if you were in my circumstances ?.

Sleepy

Refuse. He's asking you to help him rip you off.

While he's enjoying his new life abroad, your taxes will be contributing to the hole he's left in the bank's balance sheet and/or the interest rates on your own debt will increase to cover the losses of the likes of your neighbour who don't want to accept responsibility for their own bad decisions.

smash

Rabidlamb wrote: »

A few things, I realise I may be party to some offence but I don't give a flying f-ck seeing how the banks have treated the people, in fact I would quite enjoy giving them the 2 fingers.
The end game could still be 2 years down the line.

So you don't care that the end result will be that you and the rest of us will have to pick up his tab while he jets off with over 15k, which if caught you'll have to pay tax on?

Mickey Dazzler

Allow him to put the money into your account and when he calls asking for it back tell him to and fcuk himself.

lividduck

Take the cash, spend it and then tell him to sue you if he doesn't like it!:D

MagicSean

Does your neighbout go by the name Quinn?

bijapos

If he's an honest, decent sort I'd help him out. He isn't the only one who made a bad decision the past few years and if doing this is going to stop the worry and help him and his family get out of a hole I'd help him.

Stiffler2

OP i can see where you are coming from.
Voice of reason from above 2 posters I can also see where you're coming from.

Help the guy out, he'll need that cash for his new life.
15k versus the 176 billion we owe won't make a difference in plugging that hole

Bankers, develepers & politicians got us into this mess, not this guy.

MagicSean

Stiffler2 wrote: »

OP i can see where you are coming from.
Voice of reason from above 2 posters I can also see where you're coming from.

Help the guy out, he'll need that cash for his new life.
15k versus the 176 billion we owe won't make a difference in plugging that hole

Bankers, develepers & politicians got us into this mess, not this guy.

Bollocks. anyone who bought a home they couldn't afford contributed to this mess.

Rabidlamb

Sleepy wrote: »

Refuse. He's asking you to help him rip you off.

While he's enjoying his new life abroad, your taxes will be contributing to the hole he's left in the bank's balance sheet and/or the interest rates on your own debt will increase to cover the losses of the likes of your neighbour who don't want to accept responsibility for their own bad decisions.

Would that €15k make the slightest difference to the banks balance sheet, they are losing more than that every 6 months with the depreciation of the asset.
The €15k will make no difference to the bank but will be life changing for him.

smash

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Bankers, develepers & politicians got us into this mess, not this guy.

He's contributing to the mess by avoiding his responsibilities!

MugMugs

Mickey Dazzler wrote: »

Allow him to put the money into your account and when he calls asking for it back tell him to and fcuk himself.

That says it all really... A gift is a gift after all.

Rabidlamb

Sleepy wrote: »

Refuse. He's asking you to help him rip you off.

While he's enjoying his new life abroad, your taxes will be contributing to the hole he's left in the bank's balance sheet and/or the interest rates on your own debt will increase to cover the losses of the likes of your neighbour who don't want to accept responsibility for their own bad decisions.

So you'd prefer to take the shirt off his back everyday for the next 20 years.
He's not a mathematical equation, he's a person that has a shot at a good life.

dxhound2005

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Short version of story:

Neighbour in mortgage difficulty, already resigned to losing house, been unemployed for 3 years & will emigrate once "free rent" moratorium is up.
He has €15k in cash savings which he's put by to establish himself & his family in their new life abroad.
He has asked me to accept a gift of this money, lodge it then send it on to him once the time is right.

He makes a solid argument that if the bank became aware of these funds they would demand they be used to offset the mortgage shortfall.
To him this is the equivalent of burning the cash as he's already given up on the house.

A few things, I realise I may be party to some offence but I don't give a flying f-ck seeing how the banks have treated the people, in fact I would quite enjoy giving them the 2 fingers.
The end game could still be 2 years down the line.

Question. What would you do if you were in my circumstances ?.

Why did he ask you?

MagicSean

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Would that €15k make the slightest difference to the banks balance sheet, they are losing more than that every 6 months with the depreciation of the asset.
The €15k will make no difference to the bank but will be life changing for him.

I'm sure if you heard that a banker had stolen 15k you'd be calling for his head.

seamus

Go straight to the bank and let them know that your neighbour is committing fraud by trying to strategically default.

Rabidlamb

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Why did he ask you?

Best mates & all that, plus he doesn't trust his own family.

lougholad

I would probable keep his money and spend it paying a lump off my own mortage

lostboy

**** it, 15k is nothing in comparison and his life is basically ruined as it is, give em another chance

CardBordWindow

MagicSean wrote: »

I'm sure if you heard that a banker had stolen 15k you'd be calling for his head.

A banker wouldn't do such a thing, surely?

Rabidlamb

MagicSean wrote: »

I'm sure if you heard that a banker had stolen 15k you'd be calling for his head.

I sit really stealing though, had he blown that €15k by drinking & gambling over the years it wouldn't be there anyway.

smash

he must think you're very gullible or something. If he had half a brain he'd be taking the money out in cash on a weekly basis and say he used it for living expenses.

By doing what he's asking, you're an accessory to fraud.

Sleepy

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Would that €15k make the slightest difference to the banks balance sheet, they are losing more than that every 6 months with the depreciation of the asset.
The €15k will make no difference to the bank but will be life changing for him.

And what if every one of the people in his situation are helped to avoid their responsibilities?

Rabidlamb wrote: »

So you'd prefer to take the shirt off his back everyday for the next 20 years.
He's not a mathematical equation, he's a person that has a shot at a good life.

No, he's a person that made a mistake. Now, he needs to live with the consequences of his decision and is whinging about it. I've no sympathy for anyone that bought an over-priced house in the boom and got a mortgage larger than they could handle for it. Yes the banks were at fault for agreeing to lend but they didn't hold a gun to the guy's head: he signed up for the mortgage of his own free will. He can live with it's consequences because, to be frank, I'm paying for enough of the stupidity of those that inflated a housing bubble that I wasn't stupid enough to get involved in tbh.

Firefox11

bijapos wrote: »

If he's an honest, decent sort I'd help him out. He isn't the only one who made a bad decision the past few years and if doing this is going to stop the worry and help him and his family get out of a hole I'd help him.

Yes, but this is becoming all too common. People who made bad decisions and then walk away from from there responsibilities and emigrating leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab.

Sleepy

BTW: you do know you'll need to explain a sum that large under money-laundering legislation, right?

Robdude

Everyone seems focused on what they *could* do....but nobody seems to ask what they *should* do any more.

That's a lot of the reason for our financial problems.

Your neighbour - a full grown adult - who took out a mortgage is now abusing tax relief programs designed to help people stay afloat; when clearly his intention is to scam the maximum amount of money from the bank and the tax payers and run off with the funds.....is asking you for help committing his crime.

Why would you even consider this?

If I were a banker and I told you'd scammed 15k from customers - would you hide it for me in your bank account? If illegally scammed a 15k dole check - would you hide it for me in your bank account?

He's breaking the law. He's stealing money from a bank and defrauding the Irish government.

Why is this even a question?!

If your seven year old son came to you and told you that his friend Jimmy asked him to hold on to 15 giant bags of candy because Jimmy 'borrowed' it from the store and the store is trying to find it; what would you tell your son was the right thing to do?

smash

Sleepy wrote: »

BTW: you do know you'll need to explain a sum that large under money-laundering legislation, right?

Not for only €15k

Sleepy

You sure? When I last worked in a bank (admittedly over a decade ago) it was any amount over 5k...

ABEasy

Robdude wrote: »

He's breaking the law. He's stealing money from a bank and defrauding the Irish government

What law is he breaking?? And how is he stealing??

Op if he's your friend then I can't even understand why you are on here asking...

dxhound2005

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Best mates & all that, plus he doesn't trust his own family.

If you are willing to help him out with a bit of money laundering then maybe you could try something that a local here got away with for a while. Collect his dole every week when he emigrates and split it between yourselves.

Reoil

Sleepy wrote: »

BTW: you do know you'll need to explain a sum that large under money-laundering legislation, right?

He can just say he sold his car to his neighbour...

Sleepy

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If you are willing to help him out with a bit of money laundering then maybe you could try something that a local here got away with for a while. Collect his dole every week when he emigrates and split it between yourselves.

This is why we need a dislike button on boards. Or just a site-ban rule for those advocating defrauding the state.

What's so hard to understand about this: when you defraud the state you steal from every person who's trying to earn a living and keep a roof over their heads in the worst economic climate since the Great Depression.

Sleepy

Reoil wrote: »

He can just say he sold his car to his neighbour...

And the bank would then look to repossess the €15k car their customer allegedly has and, with any luck, the pair of them would be discovered and prosecuted.

Rabidlamb

ABEasy wrote: »

What law is he breaking?? And how is he stealing??

Op if he's your friend then I can't even understand why you are on here asking...

I've already made my decision, I'm going through with it, I'm just trying to sense the public mood for such an action.
There is some support but the majority seem strongly opposed, good debate.

dxhound2005

Sleepy wrote: »

This is why we need a dislike button on boards. Or just a site-ban rule for those advocating defrauding the state.

What's so hard to understand about this: when you defraud the state you steal from every person who's trying to earn a living and keep a roof over their heads in the worst economic climate since the Great Depression.

It's already in the AH Charter.

Any threads or posts advocating illegal activities or asking for help in such activities will be deleted.

Rabidlamb

Sleepy wrote: »

This is why we need a dislike button on boards. Or just a site-ban rule for those advocating defrauding the state.

What's so hard to understand about this: when you defraud the state you steal from every person who's trying to earn a living and keep a roof over their heads in the worst economic climate since the Great Depression.

I think he's just being a bit sarcastic & pointing out what could be done if you take it to the nth degree.
I would see that as serious fraud where I have no such qualms about moving his savings for him.

nacimroc

Just out of interest, why didn't he pay the 15k to the bank and he would still have a house. No bank would refuse 5k/year as mortgage in the short term!

To me it looks like he willingly put himself into huge debt (by letting bank repo) and is now forcing himself to move continent.

I'm guessing he will be down 100k+ by losing the house, but if he went to the bank today with 15k in cash he would buy himself another year or two and in a few years when things pick up his house will come back to value. Very odd move IMO.

ABEasy

Rabidlamb wrote: »

ABEasy wrote: »

What law is he breaking?? And how is he stealing??

Op if he's your friend then I can't even understand why you are on here asking...

I've already made my decision, I'm going through with it, I'm just trying to sense the public mood for such an action.
There is some support but the majority seem strongly opposed, good debate.

Fair play op, I'd do it in a heart beat for a friend. I'd imagine most would do the same if they were it that position.

smash

Sleepy wrote: »

You sure? When I last worked in a bank (admittedly over a decade ago) it was any amount over 5k...

Well in 2006 I sold my car, 17.5k cash and lodged it. Bank told me that anything under 20 needed no explanation.

dxhound2005

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I've already made my decision, I'm going through with it, I'm just trying to sense the public mood for such an action.
There is some support but the majority seem strongly opposed, good debate.

This isn't the place to sense the public mood.

haminka

I wonder if people realize that this kind of thinking actually got this country in trouble.
Because this : I'm just going to have a nice life and when it gets difficult, I'll feck off and leave others to pick up the pieces is rampant in Ireland, at least was during the Celtic Tiger, from the most ordinary people up to the politicians, bankers and developers. They just gambled with the whole country while those down there only had their own /borrowed/ money to gamble with. But the general principle is essentially the same.

RichieC

This is how rich people act all the time. **** them, help the guy out.

Rabidlamb

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It's already in the AH Charter.

Any threads or posts advocating illegal activities or asking for help in such activities will be deleted.

Had I asked for advice how best to do it I would fall foul of these rules, I haven't.
I'm also not advocating this action, I'm just presenting evidence that real things happen in the real world.
Please don't try to derail what could be a good debate.

dxhound2005

RichieC wrote: »

This is how rich people act all the time. **** them, help the guy out.

Someone with €15,000 cash is rich.

MagicSean

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I've already made my decision, I'm going through with it, I'm just trying to sense the public mood for such an action.
There is some support but the majority seem strongly opposed, good debate.

It's good that you came on the busiest forum in the country to let everyone know. Do you not know how easy it is for someone to identify you through your Boards posts?

bijapos

Firefox11 wrote: »

Yes, but this is becoming all too common. People who made bad decisions and then walk away from from there responsibilities and emigrating leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab.

I agree, but the guy seems to be in a dead end. He wants to emigrate and make a try of it abroad for himself and his family. In the mid term he will actually be less of a liability on the state as he is probably receiving several hundred a week in dole, relief and welfare payments.

The house is a millstone around his and the states necks, you never know, he might emigrate and come back in 10-20 years and start to contribute to Irish society again.

I don't agree with the way the banks have been dealt with in this crisis, that's a different story, but i think the guy should be given a chance to leave. Like I said it's a dead end, and he is probably costing us tens of thousands a year on welfare payments as it is, we are picking up the tab for these welfare payments and for the loss he has made on the house anyway.

Stiffler2

I just don't like to see the small man get shafted while people like Betie, Sean Fitzpatrick etc. walk around with their hands held high.

that is all

victormildrew

MagicSean wrote: »

Does your neighbout go by the name Quinn?

I vehemently object to that highly offensive remark in connection with not paying tax and Sean Quinn.

Sean Quinn has never been accused of not paying or avioding any taxes. To my knowledge he has publicly stated that he and his companies have paid the Exchequer over 1 billion euro in taxes and that has never been denied. If there were more Sean Quinns in Ireland creating jobs we would never have fallen into the mess we are all in now.

biko

lol

/thread