Would you like to leave the Catholic Church?

marty1985

later12 wrote: »

I want to be a member of the Roman Catholic church.

I think anyone who comes from a non Catholic background can probably symathise with the underwhelming nature of Protestant ceremonies. I mean all religion is pure mythology anyway, and if you're going to do it at all, give it welly: I'm talking Latin mass, ornate buildings, deliciously priceless artwork, burning incense, intriguingly obscure traditions, and bizarre superstitions.

I'm a fan of asceticism in general, I think, but it mixes badly with religion. The Christian Church seems to have learned this shortly after the death of Jesus Christ, the problem with most of the Protestant churches was its unlearning during the reformation. Anyone ever been to a Quaker funeral? Silence, Tea, biscuits, a chat and then a bit of silence again? If you're into religion, that's not how you want to go. Do it with a bang.

I can identify with this. I would be inclined to pop into a church if I think it's going to have some interesting art and architecture. Similarly with Buddhist and Taoist temples. They can be amazing.

Galwayguy35

Im quite happy to remain a member so no i wont be leaving.

philologos

krudler wrote: »

er, no, the catholic church has set rules to abide by to be really considered a catholic, people picking and choosing what beliefs suit them makes them a christian, not a catholic, but people in this country seem to be unable to tell the difference between being born a catholic and being a practicing one.

I agree with most of your post actually, but there is one issue I have with it.

Since when does picking and choosing beliefs make anyone a Christian?

Christianity is based on believing and trusting in Jesus and living according to God's standards. If one doesn't believe in Jesus, or acknowledge God then one can't be called a Christian in earnest.

If you don't believe in God, you are an atheist.
If you believe in some kind of god, but refuse to accept Jesus as the way to know God, you are some other form of theist.

Christianity essentially is the truth that God loved mankind so much that He sent His only begotten Son Jesus Christ to save them from the slavery of sin by taking the punishment that they all deserved. Being a Christian means living in light of that truth and sharing it with others.

krudler

marty1985 wrote: »

Sorry krudler, people are still free to choose their own religious identity. In fact, they just did recently in a big census.

The reality is that a lot of people identify in the census as Catholic, and they have their reasons for doing so. We can all make unwarranted assumptions about what those reasons are, and then complain because the presumed reasons do not meet their own criteria but be honest, it’s not a line of argument that people find very compelling.

I'm a vegetarian, I just eat steak a lot.

ridiculous right?

same goes for catholics who dont go to mass, have premarital sex with condoms, all the other fun stuff people choose to ignore. if you dont follow the basic rules you cant consider yourself a member, simples.

Dave!

philologos wrote: »

I agree with most of your post actually, but there is one issue I have with it.

Since when does picking and choosing beliefs make anyone a Christian?

Christianity is based on believing and trusting in Jesus and living according to God's standards. If one doesn't believe in Jesus, or acknowledge God then one can't be called a Christian in earnest.

If you don't believe in God, you are an atheist.
If you believe in some kind of god, but refuse to accept Jesus as the way to know God, you are some other form of theist.

Christianity essentially is the truth that God loved mankind so much that He sent His only begotten Son Jesus Christ to save them from the slavery of sin by taking the punishment that they all deserved. Being a Christian means living in light of that truth and sharing it with others.

What makes someone a Catholic? Identifying themselves as such? Baptism? Subscription to specific key teachings?

lividduck

philologos wrote: »

I agree with most of your post actually, but there is one issue I have with it.

Since when does picking and choosing beliefs make anyone a Christian?

Christianity is based on believing and trusting in Jesus and living according to God's standards. If one doesn't believe in Jesus, or acknowledge God then one can't be called a Christian in earnest.

If you don't believe in God, you are an atheist.
If you believe in some kind of god, but refuse to accept Jesus as the way to know God, you are some other form of theist.

Christianity essentially is the truth that God loved mankind so much that He sent His only begotten Son Jesus Christ to save them from the slavery of sin by taking the punishment that they all deserved. Being a Christian means living in light of that truth and sharing it with others.

If I can quote JamesL85 in the Good Friday Mega thread:
and Jesus came out of the temple and said: "Thou shalt mark my birth by celebrating the coming of a fat man in a red suit in a magic flying sled and giving presents to each other. Thou shalt also drink too much at the work christmas night out and make a tit of yourself. Thou shalt also eat drink and be merry and endeavour to become more like the one true saviour, Santa Claus."

...when Jesus emerged from the tomb he said to his disciples:" Thou shalt celebrate my magical resurection by buying each other big chocolate eggs and telling children that some sort of magic giant rabbit hid them in the garden. Furthermore, thou shalt definitely not have a pissup on Good Friday. Furthermore I shall use my magical powers to change the date of Good Friday every year, and it will totally **** up your plans. Thou shalt not whinge about it, because I had nails driven into my hands and legs and had a thoroughly unenjoyable time. The prophet that will be named Mel Gibson shall reveal these facts unto the world."

I'm sorry but if you think that for non religous people Easter and Christmas have much to do with God impregnanting a virgin, so she could give birth to him, so that he could sacrifice himself to himself to atone for a sin that was implanted in mankind because a rib woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat a magical fruit from a forbidden tree, and the subsequent resurecction of himself so he could ascend to heaven and join himself with the other third part of himself who didn't get such a major starring role in the bilbe, you are somewhat mistaken.
He puts it so much better thyan I ever could!

krudler

philologos wrote: »

I agree with most of your post actually, but there is one issue I have with it.

Since when does picking and choosing beliefs make anyone a Christian?

Christianity is based on believing and trusting in Jesus and living according to God's standards. If one doesn't believe in Jesus, or acknowledge God then one can't be called a Christian in earnest.

If you don't believe in God, you are an atheist.
If you believe in some kind of god, but refuse to accept Jesus as the way to know God, you are some other form of theist.

Christianity essentially is the truth that God loved mankind so much that He sent His only begotten Son Jesus Christ to save them from the slavery of sin by taking the punishment that they all deserved. Being a Christian means living in light of that truth and sharing it with others.

well ok for arguments sake we'll assume anyone claiming to be a catholic at least believes jesus was the son of god, although you'd never know lol

later12

krudler wrote: »

I'm a vegetarian, I just eat steak a lot.

ridiculous right?

same goes for catholics who dont go to mass, have premarital sex with condoms, all the other fun stuff people choose to ignore. if you dont follow the basic rules you cant consider yourself a member, simples.

That's just not true. You can consider yourself whatever you want. Samantha Brick, for example, considers herself god's gift to mankind. Great. Whatever keeps you on the straight and narrow.

Furthermore, the Christian faith is such a demanding body of works that nobody seriously expects to be 100% compliant with its various requirements at all times. Catholics would say that everyone sins, or would argue over the veracity of some teachings (which if you look at the history of the Christian churches, tend to be fairly flexible things).

You might argue that individuals are or are not compliant with the majority of the rules of a specific faith, but it is a fact that a large majority of people do seem to self-identify as Roman Catholics and other denominations.

I'm not sure what denying or rejecting or criticising that self-identification even achieves.

Dostoevsky

Dave! wrote: »

I'd prefer if the state would just stop giving a **** about how many members some silly club has.

Or better still if people who post in AH did.

In terms of "cool", bashing the Roman Church is so, like, 90s. It's the equivalent of posting a Father Ted clip/thanking a Father Ted clip and thinking you're "cool" at the same time.


As for more relevant targets.... Media magnates like O'Reilly & O'Brien? Bankers? Journalists? Politicians? Senior Civil Servants? Trade Union leaders? Owners of popular websites? - All of these people have more power than the Roman church in Ireland has in 2012.

The Roman Church has never been a democracy. It's unlikely it's going to become one any time soon.

KeithAFC

Don't need to but I would do everything in my power to do so if I was on some list from Rome.

philologos

Dave! wrote: »

What makes someone a Catholic? Identifying themselves as such? Baptism? Subscription to specific key teachings?

krudler wrote: »

well ok for arguments sake we'll assume anyone claiming to be a catholic at least believes jesus was the son of god, although you'd never know lol

Hold up a second guys.

krudler said that if one wants to pick and choose, they can be a Christian. However, Christianity isn't a "pick and choose" religion. There are certain key beliefs in Christianity. In other words, Christians believe something that marks them as being distinct from the world. That is that Jesus Christ came into the world to save us from the slavery of sin. Christians on responding to that great news of His death and resurrection, live for Him, and live to serve and glorify God each and every day of their lives. That's what being a Christian means.

If one doesn't believe in the Gospel, then it is unreasonable that one would claim to be a Christian.

Dave: I think you may have misunderstood my point.

lividduck

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Or better still if people who post in AH did.

In terms of "cool", bashing the Roman Church is so, like, 90s. It's the equivalent of posting a Father Ted clip/thanking a Father Ted clip and thinking you're "cool" at the same time.


As for more relevant targets.... Media magnates like O'Reilly & O'Brien? Bankers? Journalists? Politicians? Senior Civil Servants? Trade Union leaders? Owners of popular websites? - All of these people have more power than the Roman church in Ireland has in 2012.

The Roman Church has never been a democracy. It's unlikely it's going to become one any time soon.

The man has a point, actually we should be concentrating our frustration on those who actually do exert and in many cases abuse their influence.
Though I have to say the state should cease activley supporting the so called catholic ethos eg financial support schools and hospitals, which adhere to catholic principles above all else, state broadcasting of the catholic call to prayer, state broadcasting of masses.
however in broad terms the poster is correct, there are far more dangerous influences in Irish society than catholicism.

wendell borton

Pharisaism [fárri say izəm]
noun
1. practices of Pharisees: the beliefs and practices of the Pharisees, especially the great attention they paid to the detailed rules of everyday life. 2. pharisaism self-righteousness about adhering to rules: hypocritical, self-righteous, or obsessive behaviour or attitudes towards the observing of rules and formalities

A perfect description of the catholic church.

Dave!

philologos wrote: »

Hold up a second guys.

krudler said that if one wants to pick and choose, they can be a Christian. However, Christianity isn't a "pick and choose" religion. There are certain key beliefs in Christianity. In other words, Christians believe something that marks them as being distinct from the world. That is that Jesus Christ came into the world to save us from the slavery of sin. Christians on responding to that great news of His death and resurrection, live for Him, and live to serve and glorify God each and every day of their lives. That's what being a Christian means.

If one doesn't believe in the Gospel, then it is unreasonable that one would claim to be a Christian.

Dave: I think you may have misunderstood my point.

I think I understood

I'm just asking you to extend this to denominational Christians: is there a requirement in order for someone to legitimately identify themselves as a Catholic? Theologically, or in Canon Law? Is it a personal/subjective thing? Can someone call themselves a Catholic, but besides believing in Jesus reject every Church teaching? Does baptism make you a Catholic for life?

If hypothetically I started my own religion and 'baptised' someone into it against their will, would they then need to put 'Catholic' and 'Daveist' on the Census form? The RCC probably has rules against being a member of another religion actually, so would the person be kicked out of the Church? Could they no longer legitimately call themselves Catholic?

I know you're not Catholic BTW

WallyGUFC

I was baptised (against my will obviously) and confirmed (again against my will) and could not give one ounce of a flying f**k about Catholicism. Bent, abusive organisation. Have to laugh when older generations look to the heavens when I say I don't believe in it. Go away. Just because you were brainwashed doesn't mean I will be. More non-religious/multi-religious schools need to be established to be honest. It's my view, and it's probably a bit of a generalistion, that people who go to these schools are more rounded individuals. Wish I had had the choice.

later12

KeithAFC wrote: »

Don't need to but I would do everything in my power to do so if I was on some list from Rome.

We know you're an Ulster Protestant, yes.

Run_to_da_hills

wendell borton wrote: »

A perfect description of the catholic church.

It mentions in Matthew 5 20 "except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven". It wouldn't take much to exceed the righteousness of child abusers and others in authority that have covered up their scandals.

philologos

Dave! wrote: »

I think I understood

I'm just asking you to extend this to denominational Christians: is there a requirement in order for someone to legitimately identify themselves as a Catholic? Theologically, or in Canon Law? Is it a personal/subjective thing? Can someone call themselves a Catholic, but besides believing in Jesus reject every Church teaching? Does baptism make you a Catholic for life?

If hypothetically I started my own religion and 'baptised' someone into it against their will, would they then need to put 'Catholic' and 'Daveist' on the Census form? The RCC probably has rules against being a member of another religion actually, so would the person be kicked out of the Church? Could they no longer legitimately call themselves Catholic?

I know you're not Catholic BTW

You could do whatever you please. Likewise in terms of the RCC, they can determine what they please in terms of their beliefs. It is up to them to determine what the RCC stands for as an organisation. Irrespective of what you, I or anyone else says about anything, what matters is what is true.

That should matter to everyone first, over personal preference.

My issue was with krudler saying that Christianity was a free for all belief system. Simply put it isn't and Christianity is primarily based on what is Biblical.

I think the generic problem is this if I simplify it down to generic terms, I.E applicable to any belief system.

If X faith is to be called X, it must have something unique about it so that it is called X. It must be distinct from other modes of thought, and from what anyone in society thinks. There are core principles of X, that mark a follower of X as being distinct from others in the world around them.

Therefore, if I don't believe in the principles of X, therefore how can I refer to myself as a follower of X when there is no sign, or no fruit of this being the case.

I agree, by and large that if one was to be a follower of X, one should stick to the core principles of X rather than the principles of Y, Z or A.

i think he meant catholicism has an extra set of beliefs/practises, and that there are a lot of christians who subscribe to everything christian but not the extra catholic parts, and pick and choose those ones

cloud493

Not at all.

gcgirl

marty1985 wrote: »

krudler wrote: »

er, no, the catholic church has set rules to abide by to be really considered a catholic, people picking and choosing what beliefs suit them makes them a christian, not a catholic, but people in this country seem to be unable to tell the difference between being born a catholic and being a practicing one.

Sorry krudler, people are still free to choose their own religious identity. In fact, they just did recently in a big census.

The reality is that a lot of people identify in the census as Catholic, and they have their reasons for doing so. We can all make unwarranted assumptions about what those reasons are, and then complain because the presumed reasons do not meet their own criteria but be honest, it’s not a line of argument that people find very compelling.

They're cultural Catholics which is not the same as a practicing catholic

Joey the lips

No. I dont intend leaving the catholic church. However i am not of the same opinion all the time as the pope, that is an issue for me.

marty1985

They're nominal Catholics, yes. Nobody, not even the Pope, would assume they are all practicing. It's not the purpose of the census to find out how well they practice their faith.

seeing_ie

qrrgprgua wrote: »

love these Boards.ie polls... They never ever reflect reality.

Just the reality of the opinions of boards users, a demographic all of our own.

I'd be interested to see how many votes are from recently registered, low post count, "single-issue" accounts.

Odats

No intention of leaving really. Although I'm very al a carte in my approach to Catholicism. Went at Christmas with my Dad and got really p1ssed off that they changed the words in the prayers.

Cork24

Not Calling you a Hun, just sick of Catholics calling non Catholics that mostly Celtic fans.

Cork24

krudler wrote: »

you get shot out of a cannon off the cliffs of Moher.

I like the sound of that!!

Bring on the Moher i say

ejmaztec

Odats wrote: »

No intention of leaving really. Although I'm very al a carte in my approach to Catholicism. Went at Christmas with my Dad and got really p1ssed off that they changed the words in the prayers.

I don't like the bit where you have to shake hands with the people around you, especially as most of them are gobsh1tes.

Immaculate Pasta

Nah I'm alright.

I want to keep my free pass into heaven thank you :P

DEFTLEFTHAND

Cork24 wrote: »

Not Calling you a Hun, just sick of Catholics calling non Catholics that mostly Celtic fans.

Is 'hun' not only used as a derogatory slur to Rangers fans? I wasn't aware of its use in the broader social sphere.

Galwayguy35

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Is 'hun' not only used as a derogatory slur to Rangers fans? I wasn't aware of its use in the broader social sphere.

Would be mostly used up the north i would imagine as a reference to protestants but then they call catholics taigs which is just as bad.