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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]
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Anyone have an update on when M7 / M9 merges are going to be completed? not much seems to have been done there over the past few weeks0
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There seems to be a lot of bridge building experts here now.
Siac / colas should have just handed the project over to the boards specialists at the beginning.
Bridge is the same width or a little wider as the Johnstown bridge and Kill bridge and the Kildare Town bridge.
Easy way to check this - just count the number of beams on the underside and compare.
But to think that it's designed not to be attractive to trucks is ridiculous - the whole idea of the Sallins bypass is to take trucks out of Sallins!0 -
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Getting home late last night, they were bringing in the constructions for some sort of a massive overhead gantry just before Naas North slip-road/exit. Not sure though when they'll erect it-probably during the week-end when traffic is lighter. Nothing major was done there in a long time so I guess they must have been waiting for this construction to be delivered until they finally opened the slip-road.0
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There seems to be a lot of bridge building experts here now.
Siac / colas should have just handed the project over to the boards specialists at the beginning.
I do love how some here seem to get almost personally offended when questions are raised around some of the decisions made or the way this project has been run.
This elitist and dismissive "where's your qualifications then" attitude doesn't take away from the fact that significant elements of this project could have been far better managed - the communications around finishing dates for example, or the decision to restrict the entire length of works from the start - and then leave 50% of it idle for months on end causing unnecessary traffic issues, or releasing ill-judged PR puff pieces with drone shots and "bigging up" their team's expertise in the midst of all this.
Bottom line here is that there are certainly lessons to be learned from how this project was handled.. from inception through the actual works through delivery. Whether those lessons WILL be learned however is a different matter!0 -
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I do love how some here seem to get almost personally offended when questions are raised around some of the decisions made or the way this project has been run.
This elitist and dismissive "where's your qualifications then" attitude doesn't take away from the fact that significant elements of this project could have been far better managed - the communications around finishing dates for example, or the decision to restrict the entire length of works from the start - and then leave 50% of it idle for months on end causing unnecessary traffic issues, or releasing ill-judged PR puff pieces with drone shots and "bigging up" their team's expertise in the midst of all this.
Bottom line here is that there are certainly lessons to be learned from how this project was handled.. from inception through the actual works through delivery. Whether those lessons WILL be learned however is a different matter!
Some of us are interested in the project and its progress. Others throw in rubbish like the "bridge is tiny" which is nonsense.
Of course there will be frustration from those who spend a little time learning about how these projects and designs are run when they arrive to this thread to see the latest non-sense from some ill informed commentator.
No-one has said this has gone perfectly to plan. Its also less "where's your qualifications" and more "what are your sources".
An update on the actual project... the lines are being painted on the surface today for J9a so the next week looks a goer for the opening, as all signage is almost in place and the site rubbish is piled together for clearing away. hopefully :-)0 -
I do love how some here seem to get almost personally offended when questions are raised around some of the decisions made or the way this project has been run.
This elitist and dismissive "where's your qualifications then" attitude doesn't take away from the fact that significant elements of this project could have been far better managed - the communications around finishing dates for example, or the decision to restrict the entire length of works from the start - and then leave 50% of it idle for months on end causing unnecessary traffic issues, or releasing ill-judged PR puff pieces with drone shots and "bigging up" their team's expertise in the midst of all this.
Bottom line here is that there are certainly lessons to be learned from how this project was handled.. from inception through the actual works through delivery. Whether those lessons WILL be learned however is a different matter!
Funnily I quite enjoy the constant portrayal of personal opinion as facts. I also find it amusing that boards has quite a large collection of road designers and project management experts during construction who seem to go very quiet when the job is complete.
From the way some people go on you’d swear they were building the road just for them. I really think they are underestimating the complexity of the job completed.
I also fail to see how a company promoting itself completing a multi-million euro job in a bid to win other work can be used as propaganda against it. You’re hardly suggesting that the drone footage (which has been praised on other projects) delayed the construction?0 -
I also fail to see how a company promoting itself completing a multi-million euro job in a bid to win other work can be used as propaganda against it. You’re hardly suggesting that the drone footage (which has been praised on other projects) delayed the construction?
I'm suggesting that releasing slow mo drone shots with lots of self congratulating text overlays and people standing around in spotless hi-viz looking busy set to some generic music is a bit much when they can't even handle effective communication with their current stakeholders, have let this project drag on far longer than it needed to given the importance of this route (although the Government are as much to blame for that one), and unnecessarily caused massive traffic delays by sectioning off several km of road and then doing nothing for months.
And absolutely does anyone who uses that road and who has been impacted by all this have a right to call these things out and be dissatisfied.. The hours and productivity lost over the last few years because of these decisions must be huge, not to mention of course that as taxpayers we're all paying for this. I don't give a toss about the company involved or it's next job. I care about effective delivery of this one.
Next time? I'd expect to see round the clock and weekend operations as much as possible (accepting that some tasks can't be done at night) , lane restrictions only when needed, and both an early completion bonus AND penalties for any delays.
This "ah shure it'll be grand" approach when it comes to vital infrastructure needs to end.0 -
I'm suggesting that releasing slow mo drone shots with lots of self congratulating text overlays and people standing around in spotless hi-viz looking busy set to some generic music is a bit much when they can't even handle effective communication with their current stakeholders, have let this project drag on far longer than it needed to given the importance of this route (although the Government are as much to blame for that one), and unnecessarily caused massive traffic delays by sectioning off several km of road and then doing nothing for months.
And absolutely does anyone who uses that road and who has been impacted by all this have a right to call these things out and be dissatisfied.. The hours and productivity lost over the last few years because of these decisions must be huge, not to mention of course that as taxpayers we're all paying for this. I don't give a toss about the company involved or it's next job. I care about effective delivery of this one.
Next time? I'd expect to see round the clock and weekend operations as much as possible (accepting that some tasks can't be done at night) , lane restrictions only when needed, and both an early completion bonus AND penalties for any delays.
This "ah shure it'll be grand" approach when it comes to vital infrastructure needs to end.
Can you provide a brief summary of changes that they could have done based on what expertise you have.
Include adhering to all health and safety regulations, respect for people living close to the route, having two lanes open 6am to 10pm each day and how general best practice project management will be adhered to.
From checking Google, I see that the project completion date is October 2019 and the Sallins bypass completion date is first quarter of 2020.
I have failed to find any other official dates, though one of the project managers did state on radio that they hoped to have the 3 lanes open in April last. But this seems to be the only official sounding that was wrong.
Of course if you go by the numerous experts here, it was either going to be finished last March or sometime in 2022, depending on whether it was the optimistic expert or the pessimistic expert.
As I said, they should hand the next project over to the experts here, they all seem to know everything.0 -
I'm suggesting that releasing slow mo drone shots with lots of self congratulating text overlays and people standing around in spotless hi-viz looking busy set to some generic music is a bit much when they can't even handle effective communication with their current stakeholders, have let this project drag on far longer than it needed to given the importance of this route (although the Government are as much to blame for that one), and unnecessarily caused massive traffic delays by sectioning off several km of road and then doing nothing for months.
And absolutely does anyone who uses that road and who has been impacted by all this have a right to call these things out and be dissatisfied.. The hours and productivity lost over the last few years because of these decisions must be huge, not to mention of course that as taxpayers we're all paying for this. I don't give a toss about the company involved or it's next job. I care about effective delivery of this one.
Next time? I'd expect to see round the clock and weekend operations as much as possible (accepting that some tasks can't be done at night) , lane restrictions only when needed, and both an early completion bonus AND penalties for any delays.
This "ah shure it'll be grand" approach when it comes to vital infrastructure needs to end.
Wow
I don’t know which is more baffling:
1) your level of self-entitlement
2) your lack of knowledge of how major engineering projects work
I think I’ll leave it at that rather than dissecting your post and all it’s errors0 -
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I seem to get the impression that a pompous small group of elitist posters in this forum seem to be suggesting (inferring) that they are self-entitled to positioning themselves as either 'architects' or 'engineers' and if anyone challenges any aspect of the poor project management of this road widening project, they come up asking for credentials, expertise etc.
Is it not easier for these to move on if you don't agree with someone's comment or to post their comments in dedicated architecture and construction forums?0 -
I seem to get the impression that a pompous small group of elitist posters in this forum seem to be suggesting (inferring) that they are self-entitled to positioning themselves as either 'architects' or 'engineers' and if anyone challenges any aspect of the poor project management of this road widening project, they come up asking for credentials, expertise etc.
Is it not easier for these to move on if you don't agree with someone's comment or to post their comments in dedicated architecture and construction forums?
It’s more to do with the fact that people come on here complaining about various aspects of the job without any appreciation of the work involved or an understanding of how these jobs work.
It’s infuriating to see people make suggestions such as late fees or night works as if someone hasn’t already thought of it and either ruled it out for a variety of reasons or applied it to the job (as is the case with late fees).
This latest debate centered around the suggestion that the bridge is designed to be narrow to deter trucks or that it’s narrow because the brand new bridge is tiny.
Previous to that a comment was made that the road is perfectly capable of doing 120kmph with nothing to back it up when the design drawings show below standard lane widths.
I’d have no issue with someone coming on here and pointing out a genuine flaw or poor project management but that hasn’t been the case. Moaning about these kind of aspects instead of focusing on the scale of the project that has been delivered leaves a sour taste.0 -
It’s more to do with the fact that people come on here complaining about various aspects of the job without any appreciation of the work involved or an understanding of how these jobs work.
It’s infuriating to see people make suggestions such as late fees or night works as if someone hasn’t already thought of it and either ruled it out for a variety of reasons or applied it to the job (as is the case with late fees).
This latest debate centered around the suggestion that the bridge is designed to be narrow to deter trucks or that it’s narrow because the brand new bridge is tiny.
Previous to that a comment was made that the road is perfectly capable of doing 120kmph with nothing to back it up when the design drawings show below standard lane widths.
I’d have no issue with someone coming on here and pointing out a genuine flaw or poor project management but that hasn’t been the case. Moaning about these kind of aspects instead of focusing on the scale of the project that has been delivered leaves a sour taste.
I tend to agree with _Kaiser_ on the width of the bridge. I pass there at least 3-4 times a week and for some reason, the lanes do look very narrow. I am assuming this was done as a traffic calming measure. Not sure if it has to do with the school which should star getting constructed very soon or is it an optical illusion for us!
Re the speed at present, if you're doing 100 km an hour, trucks are al overtaking you so 120 km/h seems to be the norm.
I have spoken to someone who is a project manager for the road widening and it appears that KCC is to be blamed for appalling strategies in place. Specs changing last minute, requesting vendor to do this and that and the end result is that most evenings, we've been stuck in the traffic, mostly after a very longday.
TG coming to an end0 -
I seem to get the impression that a pompous small group of elitist posters in this forum seem to be suggesting (inferring) that they are self-entitled to positioning themselves as either 'architects' or 'engineers' and if anyone challenges any aspect of the poor project management of this road widening project, they come up asking for credentials, expertise etc.
Is it not easier for these to move on if you don't agree with someone's comment or to post their comments in dedicated architecture and construction forums?
You do know that your post could be turned around 180 degrees?
As in a pompous group of posters who don't have any idea about the management of a road widening project coming on here and shouting down anyone who may know what they're talking about because they don't like being stuck in road works.
Just saying like.
And as to the second part of your post, well, it's a discussion forum and people are entitled to post their opinions, even if you disagree with them. It would be a pretty boring place if that wasn't the case.0 -
Re the speed at present, if you're doing 100 km an hour, trucks are al overtaking you so 120 km/h seems to be the norm.
Whatever happened to 90km/h limiters on HGVs... and banning them from the outer lane? This is a real danger on the roads but there appears to be next to no enforcement of it. And if they've bypassed the limiter you can bet they've bypassed the tacho as well.The Dublin Airport cap is damaging the economy of Ireland as a whole, and must be scrapped forthwith.
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Cookiemunster wrote: »You do know that your post could be turned around 180 degrees?
As in a pompous group of posters who don't have any idea about the management of a road widening project coming on here and shouting down anyone who may know what they're talking about because they don't like being stuck in road works.
Just saying like.
And as to the second part of your post, well, it's a discussion forum and people are entitled to post their opinions, even if you disagree with them. It would be a pretty boring place if that wasn't the case.
Fair post but why are those who 'don't have an idea' pompous? Yes they might have different views, but does that make them pompous/engineers?
If everyone was to be politically correct, we might as well not have boards. As You say in Your 2nd paragraph, this is a discussion forum. Personally, I have stopped participating on this forum ( yes I still read as some people Mr. Kennedy for example, upload updates which are very helpful ), and have also put one person on my ignore list, because ( to me ) they come across as being the rightous one and everyone else is wrong/pompous/engineers/rocketscientists.
Why can't we just agree to disagree without resorting to name calling?0 -
Hotblack Desiato wrote: »Whatever happened to 90km/h limiters on HGVs... and banning them from the outer lane? This is a real danger on the roads but there appears to be next to no enforcement of it. And if they've bypassed the limiter you can bet they've bypassed the tacho as well.
Whatever happened to everyone adhering to the law - 80kph? Even the notice of 13,700 summonses ( which had been flashing for a long time ) issued so far has disappeared.0 -
WishUWereHere wrote: »Fair post but why are those who 'don't have an idea' pompous? Yes they might have different views, but does that make them pompous/engineers?
If everyone was to be politically correct, we might as well not have boards. As You say in Your 2nd paragraph, this is a discussion forum. Personally, I have stopped participating on this forum ( yes I still read as some people Mr. Kennedy for example, upload updates which are very helpful ), and have also put one person on my ignore list, because ( to me ) they come across as being the rightous one and everyone else is wrong/pompous/engineers/rocketscientists.
Why can't we just agree to disagree without resorting to name calling?
I like this post.
As in every field, there's people who know more than others on a specific topic. I am an expert in ABC and if I am on a non-ABC I don't resort to slating the posters unless there's safety issues involved but I shake my head and move on. I use my own expertise specifically in those ABC forums.
People with a sense of entitlement often come here to try letting us know know inept we are!
Way easier to just ignore the post rather than start asking for credentials, expertise etc...
In this instance, 1-2 posters went after _Kaiser_ whose posts I really enjoy reading as he/she is always logical and pragmatic.
My last post on this topic so will move on to actual M widening now0 -
I like this post.
As in every field, there's people who know more than others on a specific topic. I am an expert in ABC and if I am on a non-ABC I don't resort to slating the posters unless there's safety issues involved but I shake my head and move on. I use my own expertise specifically in those ABC forums.
People with a sense of entitlement often come here to try letting us know know inept we are!
Way easier to just ignore the post rather than start asking for credentials, expertise etc...
In this instance, 1-2 posters went after _Kaiser_ whose posts I really enjoy reading as he/she is always logical and pragmatic.
My last post on this topic so will move on to actual M widening now
CAn only but agree on Kaiser, and always thought he/she was very reasonable with their comments. You also provided a great service posting weekly photographic progress from the Sallins bridge.
But no, others have to firstly disagree, & then retort with lowlife name calling. One of these posters, I think, acted the exact same way under another name. Thankfully boards gives the ignore option & I don’t h@ve to read their posts.
Back to the works, anyone have any idea when the exit SB @ J10 will be complete?0 -
WishUWereHere wrote: »Back to the works, anyone have any idea when the exit SB @ J10 will be complete?
Dunno but that slip has kerbing...maybe hard-core...and no tarmac layers so a few weeks at least i guess. There is a fair bit of relevelling required of existing road on j10 bridge over the motorway.
In bypass news Osberstown overbridge advanced with ramps now but no surfacing or kerbing on ramps yet
Some canal bridge beams delivered (a few weeks ago)
Area between Osberstown road under railway and up to canal bridge being relevelled
Bypass at Clane end received new hard-core/base layer0 -
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WishUWereHere wrote: »Fair post but why are those who 'don't have an idea' pompous? Yes they might have different views, but does that make them pompous/engineers?
If everyone was to be politically correct, we might as well not have boards. As You say in Your 2nd paragraph, this is a discussion forum. Personally, I have stopped participating on this forum ( yes I still read as some people Mr. Kennedy for example, upload updates which are very helpful ), and have also put one person on my ignore list, because ( to me ) they come across as being the rightous one and everyone else is wrong/pompous/engineers/rocketscientists.
Why can't we just agree to disagree without resorting to name calling?
I used the word pompous because it was the word used in the post I quoted. Maybe ask regedit why he/she used it.0 -
Mate, you're the guy I caught spoofing badly a few months back pretending you had expert inside knowledge. You claimed facts and when I asked for any evidence for such claimed facts, you suddenly changed the goalposts and started talking about how it was a 'best guess'. You're everything that's wrong with this thread.Wow
I don’t know which is more baffling:
1) your level of self-entitlement
2) your lack of knowledge of how major engineering projects work
I think I’ll leave it at that rather than dissecting your post and all it’s errors
Your sole contribution has been telling us what an equilateral triangle is and then pretending that understanding it means you can condescend to everyone and blatantly make up false claims.
There are plenty of annoying posters who just come on here to rant and moan and ask for the moon and the stars so that the project is completed quicker. At least they aren't claiming inherent legitimacy - which is disingenuous bordering on dishonest. Personally, I dislike dishonesty more than posters who are just frustrated and can safely be ignored.0 -
Wow
I don’t know which is more baffling:
1) your level of self-entitlement
2) your lack of knowledge of how major engineering projects work
I think I’ll leave it at that rather than dissecting your post and all it’s errors
And what qualifications have you to ascertain that you can pick out errors?0 -
December 2018Graniteville wrote: »Massive amount of work was done in the summer.
Remember, a full new drainage system was required.
Over 30 teams were working a full 40 hours a week and still are.
You could have 20 teams working daytime and 10 working night, just to give people like you a good feeling, but in the real world it does not work.
Project is well ahead of time (good weather helped) and will be open in just over 3 months.
November 2018Graniteville wrote: »I'll just give a small amount of information.
Currently there are in excess of thirty crews working on this project.
It is on time.
The three lanes will be fully open by Easter weekend next year.
The sallins bypass and osberstown junction will open fully by September next year.
As for 24/7 works? Totally unfeasible.
Fine for simple works such as asphalt laying, but not for anything else.
Health and safety would be one issue. Cost (multiple times that of daylight working) is another. Errors due to lack of light is a third.
In any case, with almost 15km of works plus two new junctions, plus the sallins bypass, there's space and work for all available teams and project managers in normal hours.
One customer says the time delay suits the overall contractor??
How can he/she work that out. Cost is the same whether finished in April or September. If it's not delivered on time, fines are gigantic.
It was a competitive tender. Development time is as important as cost.
Huge benefits of finishing early including having contractors move to next project and bragging rights that can help win other contracts.
Easter week 2019 is the date.
As a reminder, these were some of the 'expert' posts with 'insider knowledge' that people were bowing down and worshipping and insisting were unquestionable.
How do they look in retrospect?
Ah yeah, you need to be a civil engineer to be able to look at evidence, facts or approach something rationally and/or logically. The ironic thing is that the people arguing such aren't even bright enough to be aware that it's one of the most common logical fallacies.0 -
WishUWereHere wrote: »And what qualifications have you to ascertain that you can pick out errors?
I’ll probably get attacked for saying this and I really don’t need much experience to point out the errors but would a degree in civil engineering and 10+ years of project management experience be sufficient for you?
To clarify the errors I was referring to:
1) round the clock working has been ruled out for a variety of reasons
2) 2 lanes were maintained throughout the job.
3) delay penalties are in place.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »December 2018
November 2018
As a reminder, these were some of the 'expert' posts with 'insider knowledge' that people were bowing down and worshipping and insisting were unquestionable.
How do they look in retrospect?
Ah yeah, you need to be a civil engineer to be able to look at evidence, facts or approach something rationally and/or logically. The ironic thing is that the people arguing such aren't even bright enough to be aware that it's one of the most common logical fallacies.
Sallins bypass open FULLY by September 2019? Where are these experts now? And yet another case of an 'expert' claiming the project is 'well ahead' and due to be complete Easter '19, almost 6 months ago.
Thanks for sharing this.0 -
I’ll probably get attacked for saying this and I really don’t need much experience to point out the errors but would a degree in civil engineering and 10+ years of project management experience be sufficient for you?
To clarify the errors I was referring to:
1) round the clock working has been ruled out for a variety of reasons
2) 2 lanes were maintained throughout the job.
3) delay penalties are in place.
I'm not going to get into an argument with You. I have no choice but to believe Your credentials. I am only commenting as one of those eejits sitting every evening on the N/M 7 while the works were ongoing, looking at machinery lying idle after 17h00, and weekends also not fully utilised, especially for last summer when it was one of the best ever.
Question: What are the reasons for not working round the clock? Please don't tell me about H&S - there are road works on the M50 & the speed is still 100kph.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Mate, you're the guy I caught spoofing badly a few months back pretending you had expert inside knowledge. You claimed facts and when I asked for any evidence for such claimed facts, you suddenly changed the goalposts and started talking about how it was a 'best guess'. You're everything that's wrong with this thread.
Your sole contribution has been telling us what an equilateral triangle is and then pretending that understanding it means you can condescend to everyone and blatantly make up false claims.
There are plenty of annoying posters who just come on here to rant and moan and ask for the moon and the stars so that the project is completed quicker. At least they aren't claiming inherent legitimacy - which is disingenuous bordering on dishonest. Personally, I dislike dishonesty more than posters who are just frustrated and can safely be ignored.
Mate, you need to come down of your high horse.
I have pointed out to you that TII have more experience that anyone on this forum at delivering projects. I trust them to deliver projects in the most optimal way. Do you seriously think they want people to be stuck in roadworks?
I have made many positive contributions to this thread since it started unlike you who comes on here and challenges people without a single thing to say about the project itself.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/m7-motorway-set-to-be-widened-to-three-lanes-at-naas-1.3229645
When the project began, a target date of 2020 was set. The reality is that no one here knows the contract completion date so we cannot comment saying there is delays, any other dates mentioned here are heresay and should be treated as such. It’s a discussion forum not a court of law.0 -
WishUWereHere wrote: »I'm not going to get into an argument with You. I have no choice but to believe Your credentials. I am only commenting as one of those eejits sitting every evening on the N/M 7 while the works were ongoing, looking at machinery lying idle after 17h00, and weekends also not fully utilised, especially for last summer when it was one of the best ever.
Question: What are the reasons for not working round the clock? Please don't tell me about H&S - there are road works on the M50 & the speed is still 100kph.
There is a difference between planned road works and emergency works.
Safety is one reason.
Cost is another, night labour costs significantly more than day labour. Remember it’s far more than just the people you see on site. There’s an office of engineers who can be contact if there is a query, the deliver of materials etc etc.
Lighting is another. Far easier and safer to work in natural light than in the dark or even temporary lighting
Noise is another. I wouldn’t be too happy with round the clock working if I lived nearby. Not as big a factor on this stretch but it would have been raised during the planning application which would have put restrictions on work times
Phasing is another. Certain tasks take time and doing them at night wouldn’t necessarily speed up the job. Settlement of drainage and the time it takes for concrete to reach full strength to give just 2 examples.
They have done nightworks on this job where necessary, asphalt laying and the railway Underbridge being two notable cases. It’s just far similar and safer to work during the day0 -
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While I side marginally with the more positive contributors the current "Punch & Judy" debate neither amuses or informs me - perhaps it needs its own thread?0
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