M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

road_high

Coming down the M7 Friday night I noticed they still had the exit countdown signs in place for the now defunct and sealed Naas South/Rathangan exit? Seems like a pretty major omission not to lift those as they could be very dangerous in the dark for a motorist only familiar with the old turnoff and not concentrating fully. Surely not a big job to lift and move those- god knows they've been fannying around for long enough.

Darc19

road_high wrote: »

Coming down the M7 Friday night I noticed they still had the exit countdown signs in place for the now defunct and sealed Naas South/Rathangan exit? Seems like a pretty major omission not to lift those as they could be very dangerous in the dark for a motorist only familiar with the old turnoff and not concentrating fully. Surely not a big job to lift and move those- god knows they've been fannying around for long enough.

Drivers should be concentrating on driving.

And considering that the 100m sign is literally just AFTER the old junction, and about 100m before the start of the off lane of the new junction, drivers shouldn't have an issue as these signs are correctly placed for the new junction.


Remember that it signifies the start of the off lane and not the start of the ramp.

Darc19

antietam1 wrote: »

Think the turn for Dublin was closed few weeks ago.

That was for lighting installation

It's the entire road that is being closed Thursday night. Diversion via floods cross.

pad199207

Two hours to Heuston station using the N7 this morning

road_high

pad199207 wrote: »

Two hours to Heuston station using the N7 this morning

From where?

pad199207

road_high wrote: »

From where?

Naas Ball

tom1ie

thebiglad wrote: »

Well what would it be like without the additonal lane capacity - at least they have done something...

Yeah- wasted a load of money they could have put into PT!!

harr

If they intend not to open 9a as the contractor stated why such a flurry of work on that junction.
Drove by this morning and they seemed to be in the finishing stages ... they are sweeping the roads and removing covers from signs and also I noticed they were starting to remove some of the temporary fencing beside Kerry foods. Why bother put so much emphasis here when they say it isn’t opening till March 2020... if not opening 9a then why not have a bigger drive to sort out the Newbridge-Naas road which is all over the place and in some parts dangerous..

BuzzFish

harr wrote: »

If they intend not to open 9a as the contractor stated why such a flurry of work on that junction.
Drove by this morning and they seemed to be in the finishing stages ... they are sweeping the roads and removing covers from signs and also I noticed they were starting to remove some of the temporary fencing beside Kerry foods. Why bother put so much emphasis here when they say it isn’t opening till March 2020... if not opening 9a then why not have a bigger drive to sort out the Newbridge-Naas road which is all over the place and in some parts dangerous..

Absolutely no idea. All the mainline signage is still correct as sallins and clane traffic would use 9a immediately but just access them via millennium park. Should be easy to open it. If I'd not had the email personally I'd not have believed it as they do look like they're putting finishing touches to it.

Darc19

tom1ie wrote: »

Yeah- wasted a load of money they could have put into PT!!

It's like a broken record telling those complaining that the upgrade did not assist in Dublin bound traffic.

It was NEVER about assisting Dublin bound traffic and TII stated very very clearly that it would make neglible difference to those commuters. They went as far as saying that traffic from kill would be much heavier.

The benefits are for local Naas commuters and also a substantial benefit for commuters coming out of Dublin

emfifty

BuzzFish wrote: »

Absolutely no idea. All the mainline signage is still correct as sallins and clane traffic would use 9a immediately but just access them via millennium park. Should be easy to open it. If I'd not had the email personally I'd not have believed it as they do look like they're putting finishing touches to it.

There are several overhead gantry frames with 'missing' panels on approach to exit 9a and taper signs without the bottom sections so once they are installed we are good to go.
First to spot it, post it!

I'm told from a reliable source that mid December, interchange will be open. Here's hoping.

harr

So most predictions have materialised regarding the extra volume of traffic after Naas ...the N7 from Naas ball all the way up to red cow is basically becoming a another car park like M50 .. what ever time you gain on M7 is now gone.
Yes I know it wasn’t necessarily going to alleviate traffic going into Dublin but it’s still frustrating. Traffic on way out of Dublin has improved and my Journey time home has been cut by 15-20 minutes...

Emme

SoupyNorman wrote: »

I’d say there were quite a few commuters avoiding the N7 during roadworks, they’re back on it now adding to volume.

I’m extremely pleased with the upgrade. I come from Athy to Red Cow and my commute up is roughly the same (50-55mins) however there are days I can do it in 45 mins which was unheard of pre works.

What time do you leave in the morning? 4am? When I drive I take a similar route and it never takes me less than 55 minutes from the tailback which starts just beyond the Naas ball to the Red Cow. It takes 55 minutes to get from Bluebell to Newlands Cross if I leave at 5pm.

There must be far less traffic in the Soupy universe or else you travel at times when the traffic is very light.

BuzzFish

emfifty wrote: »

I'm told from a reliable source that mid December, interchange will be open. Here's hoping.

As per my post in the previous page, the contractor told me directly that it is a Spring opening. Hard to be more reliable than that, although I hope you're right!

Ash.J.Williams

Emme wrote: »

What time do you leave in the morning? 4am? When I drive I take a similar route and it never takes me less than 55 minutes from the tailback which starts just beyond the Naas ball to the Red Cow. It takes 55 minutes to get from Bluebell to Newlands Cross if I leave at 5pm.

There must be far less traffic in the Soupy universe or else you travel at times when the traffic is very light.

i'm curious also, takes me an hour from naas to the m50

road_high

I was looking for a direction on Google maps and they appear to have the Sallins bypass open? Which I assume is a mistake

tuxy

Probably this has probably been said already. I have used this section of road a few times recently and 3 lanes are open but when are Irish drivers expected to start using all lanes?

jmkennedyie

road_high wrote: »

I was looking for a direction on Google maps and they appear to have the Sallins bypass open? Which I assume is a mistake

Looks like Apple Maps, not Google Maps.

Google Maps has no Sallins bypass on regular website or Google Maps Android App.

Bypass is visible on Maps.Me Android App because it comes from openstreetmap data, but Maps.Me does not route over it because it is marked under construction.

I don't know how to test Apple Maps.

harr

Just checked on apple maps and yes it’s bringing you up 9A and out the new bypass...that’s going to catch a few people out...I wouldn’t be surprised to see people using it or trying to use it...

road_high

harr wrote: »

Just checked on apple maps and yes it’s bringing you up 9A and out the new bypass...that’s going to catch a few people out...I wouldn’t be surprised to see people using it or trying to use it...

Yes Apple maps. Yes tbh that’s why I checked on here as that was the only route it was giving me to Celbridge!

Tileman

Darc19 wrote: »

The M7 has been completed on time. Any official documents say end of 2019 for completion of mainline and spring 2020 for Sallins bypass.

The bypass doesn't have the health and safety aspects of a very busy road meters from the works.

Would you ever change the tune. You’ve been spouting the same nonsense all year. Even when the contractors announced they were opening the 3 lanes each way back in April and ended up opening them in July.

Darc19

Tileman wrote: »

Would you ever change the tune. You’ve been spouting the same nonsense all year. Even when the contractors announced they were opening the 3 lanes each way back in April and ended up opening them in July.

Here's the press release from 2017

“The awarding of today’s contract with SIAC/Colas JV is a milestone and ensures that the much needed widening works on the M7 can commence and will be completed by Autumn 2019. The contract covers the widening of the M7 to 3 lanes from the Junction 9 (the big ball) to the M7/M9 interchange, the Sallins bypass and the construction of a new interchange at Osberstown near Kerry Group.

“Based on the award of this contract, it is anticipated that the overall project will be completed by Spring 2020 with the M7 anticipated to be completed by Autumn 2019. This scheme represents an overall investment of €110m.

BuzzFish

jmkennedyie wrote: »

Looks like Apple Maps, not Google Maps.

Google Maps has no Sallins bypass on regular website or Google Maps Android App.

Bypass is visible on Maps.Me Android App because it comes from openstreetmap data, but Maps.Me does not route over it because it is marked under construction.

I don't know how to test Apple Maps.

Google maps is updated from Waze (they own it after all). As a member of the editing community, which anyone can join, we added the new bypass, junction and new layout for J10 once the project started, but didn't connect roads. This was done by overlaying the published plans.

Lately the roads have been connected with restrictions put in place to not route traffic on non-opened sections. This allows for instant updating once the roads do open.

New road segments can take a number of days to reflect in Waze and then Google (Google will wait for GPS points to add the segments from Waze it seems). Traffic restriction changes apply in minutes to both.

GPS points and updated satellite images help refine layouts over time.

Hope this clears it up and maybe encourages others to get involved.

GhostyMcGhost

Darc19 wrote: »

Here's the press release from 2017

“The awarding of today’s contract with SIAC/Colas JV is a milestone and ensures that the much needed widening works on the M7 can commence and will be completed by Autumn 2019. The contract covers the widening of the M7 to 3 lanes from the Junction 9 (the big ball) to the M7/M9 interchange, the Sallins bypass and the construction of a new interchange at Osberstown near Kerry Group.

“Based on the award of this contract, it is anticipated that the overall project will be completed by Spring 2020 with the M7 anticipated to be completed by Autumn 2019. This scheme represents an overall investment of €110m.

Didn't know December was in Autumn

Stark

Autumn in most of the Northern Hemisphere (well US and UK anyway) is defined as the period from the September Equinox to the Winter Solstice. (So Sep 23rd to Dec 22nd this year). We're the odd ones out having it as August, September, October.

MaceFace

Regarding the argument that rather than working on the M7, the money should have been invested into public transport...

It's worth remembering that the widening of the M7 to 3 lanes cost €55m. To put it into perspective, the Luas extension from Belgard to Saggart (isn't that the length of that extended line) was €150m.

Taking it at a very basic level, to run the Luas to Naas, it would cost €450m as it is 15km from Saggart to Naas as opposed to 5km from Belgard to Saggart.
The Luas is also loss making, and with demand between Naas and Saggart/Tallaght likely low to very low outside of core commuting times, it is highly likely it would be a significant ongoing cost to the taxpayer.

Also average journey times from Naas to Connolly would probably be around 65-70 mins, and considering a large proportion of commuters live and work away from these two hubs, door to door commuting times could be significantly more.

I do however believe that as a main artery into the city, more investment is needed but it should be part of a much larger strategy. Have a multi-billion investment strategy to develop housing and infrastructure all along the N7 with frequent high speed public transport as a key part. There is a tremendous amount of green space in this area that anyone who travels by car or train will see - green fields from just past Clondalkin to Naas.

riddlinrussell

MaceFace wrote: »

Regarding the argument that rather than working on the M7, the money should have been invested into public transport...

It's worth remembering that the widening of the M7 to 3 lanes cost €55m. To put it into perspective, the Luas extension from Belgard to Saggart (isn't that the length of that extended line) was €150m.

Taking it at a very basic level, to run the Luas to Naas, it would cost €450m as it is 15km from Saggart to Naas as opposed to 5km from Belgard to Saggart.
The Luas is also loss making, and with demand between Naas and Saggart/Tallaght likely low to very low outside of core commuting times, it is highly likely it would be a significant ongoing cost to the taxpayer.

Also average journey times from Naas to Connolly would probably be around 65-70 mins, and considering a large proportion of commuters live and work away from these two hubs, door to door commuting times could be significantly more.

I do however believe that as a main artery into the city, more investment is needed but it should be part of a much larger strategy. Have a multi-billion investment strategy to develop housing and infrastructure all along the N7 with frequent high speed public transport as a key part. There is a tremendous amount of green space in this area that anyone who travels by car or train will see - green fields from just past Clondalkin to Naas.

I think suggesting that it wouldn't make sense to run the Luas out to Naas is fairly disingenuous, I highly doubt anyone suggesting public transport solutions wants the Luas to run out that far.
Public transport solutions for Naas and beyond should be taking the form of:

• Increased bus service at peak times, bus lanes along the N7
• Increased train frequency from Kildare/Newbridge/Sallins
• P+R facilities for all the above/moving stations to facilitate P+R.
• Rail improvements up to and including quad tracking to Sallins/Newbridge or whatever engineers deem best to ramp up train frequency.
• Dart to Hazelhatch resulting in Sallins commuters only ever having two stops to Heuston (Hazelhatch for transfers/Heuston) increasing speed of commute.

Sam Russell

Why would anyone extend the Luas to Naas when there is already a heavy rail serving it? Dart Expansion as far as Sallins is a more valid proposal. A more extensive P&R at Sallins would help.

Whatever about the expansion of the N7, this is a valid PT proposal than any Luas one. Luas is already over capacity on both lines.

Trams are more appropriate for city centre than suburbs.

MaceFace

riddlinrussell wrote: »

I think suggesting that it wouldn't make sense to run the Luas out to Naas is fairly disingenuous, I highly doubt anyone suggesting public transport solutions wants the Luas to run out that far.
Public transport solutions for Naas and beyond should be taking the form of:

• Increased bus service at peak times, bus lanes along the N7
• Increased train frequency from Kildare/Newbridge/Sallins
• P+R facilities for all the above/moving stations to facilitate P+R.
• Rail improvements up to and including quad tracking to Sallins/Newbridge or whatever engineers deem best to ramp up train frequency.
• Dart to Hazelhatch resulting in Sallins commuters only ever having two stops to Heuston (Hazelhatch for transfers/Heuston) increasing speed of commute.

I only used the Luas as an example as the costs are well known so easy to compare to the known costs of the M7 works. I'm guessing trains would be much more expensive, strengthening the point I am making.

I've often heard the argument that what do you do with the additional bus/train capacity outside of peak hours. After 10am, the demand will decrease maybe 90% so what do you do with the buses and drivers? Drive empty buses around all day? Send them home only to come back at 3pm for the start of the return journey?

Increased train frequency - there are 10 trains that arrive in Heuston between 7am and 9am. Are these trains full that people can't get on or so overcrowded that people are avoiding them? Its a long time since I took the train from Sallins in the morning, but I always felt the problem was more that it left you on the outskirts of the city. The train was often standing room when I used to get it, but it was only a 30 min journey which was fine. Personally, I don't reducing the time from 30 mins to 20 mins will make much of a difference to anyone.

P+R: Absolutely. It's crazy more is not being done on it and the recent decision by Irish Rail not to take advantage of the vacant underground carpark adjacent to Sallins station is crazy. 200+ spaces.

Anyway, I am not trying to make a case against further investment in public transport along the N7 route, but I'd put up a counter argument that we need more roads. A high speed outer orbital route basically along the border of Dublin because as of now, to get from Naas to Bray, it almost always means going the M50. This would immediately reduce the demand on the M50 and all approaching roads. It should be significantly cheaper than any public transport option and allow people who work in Kildare to commute to South Dublin without needing to go get a train into the city, a luas across town and a Dart/Luas/Bus back out.

Sorry, just rambling...

Tomrota

Sam Russell wrote: »

Why would anyone extend the Luas to Naas when there is already a heavy rail serving it? Dart Expansion as far as Sallins is a more valid proposal. A more extensive P&R at Sallins would help.

Whatever about the expansion of the N7, this is a valid PT proposal than any Luas one. Luas is already over capacity on both lines.

Trams are more appropriate for city centre than suburbs.

The DART expansion should not go as far as Sallins unless the station is moved to somewhere that can cope with a giant park and ride.

I think a good idea would be to have a train line from Naas, through Kill, Rathcoole, Citywest, Tallaght, could then you underground past the M50 and go through Terenure/Rathmines/Stephens Green and terminate at Pearse or Tara. This would be much like the DART underground plan but would consider places in Dublin that don’t have access to rail transport. I don’t think the Luas will cope with all that housing going up in Citywest and other places.

As already stated by someone else, they could zone residential areas between Rathcoole and Kill. These areas would have affordable housing with reliable transport. Have no clue how feasible this would be but as a commuter it seems like a great idea from my point of view. I’m sure if they can throw billions and billions on the construction of a children’s hospital in the city, this shouldn’t be that difficult.

Will this ever happen? Nope. We’ll be given an extra diesel commuter train in the morning and an extra 126 here in Naas and told to shut up and stop using the car.