M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

MayoSalmon

gilly2308 wrote: »

I still think three years for what should be a reasonably straightforward build is way too much, this would not take three years in most other countries.

At least it's getting built:pac:

Cookiemunster

gilly2308 wrote: »

I still think three years for what should be a reasonably straightforward build is way too much, this would not take three years in most other countries.

Is it that straight forward? It's an online upgrade that has to occur while keeping the road open at the current capacity.

marno21

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Is it that straight forward? It's an online upgrade that has to occur while keeping the road open at the current capacity.

The work on the central median can easily be done by shifting traffic over to the hard shoulder, there was works in the last year to strengthen the shoulder so it's suitable for traffic running.

Then the traffic can be shifted towards the centre so work can be done on the verges.

Obviously with a 60km/h limit.

pad199207

gilly2308 wrote: »

I still think three years for what should be a reasonably straightforward build is way too much, this would not take three years in most other countries.

No you see in this country they say things will take 3 or 4 years to build. And then it ends up taking about 2 years for it to be built.

So when the lads finish up "ahead of schedule" they think they're brilliant even though they know perfectly well it was only going to take 2 years.

This is what happens with the Newlands Flyover

spacetweek

pad199207 wrote: »

This is what happens with the Newlands Flyover

I'm pretty sure that was only ever gonna be 2 years.

gilly0512

pad199207 wrote: »

No you see in this country they say things will take 3 or 4 years to build. And then it ends up taking about 2 years for it to be built.

So when the lads finish up "ahead of schedule" they think they're brilliant even though they know perfectly well it was only going to take 2 years.

This is what happens with the Newlands Flyover

Ha ha that's so true pad199207, thank god the days are gone when they would just literally bypass a town and that was it. A local cowboy would be given the contract after dropping a few brown envelopes, and the job itself would take years to complete. Yes there is no doubt that we have improved immeasurably in road building in this country, helped no doubt by EU rules that projects had to be tendered internationally, but I think that adding an extra lane in both directions on the M7 from J9 to J11 is not exactly a major feat of construction brilliance, and could be done a lot quicker. Yes I realise that new junctions are to be built as well as the bypass of Sallins, but the extra lane is of far greater importance in the grand scheme of things.

benny79

gilly2308 wrote: »

Ha ha that's so true pad199207, thank god the days are gone when they would just literally bypass a town and that was it. A local cowboy would be given the contract after dropping a few brown envelopes, and the job itself would take years to complete. Yes there is no doubt that we have improved immeasurably in road building in this country, helped no doubt by EU rules that projects had to be tendered internationally, but I think that adding an extra lane in both directions on the M7 from J9 to J11 is not exactly a major feat of construction brilliance, and could be done a lot quicker. Yes I realise that new junctions are to be built as well as the bypass of Sallins, but the extra lane is of far greater importance in the grand scheme of things.

Is it not going from J9 to J12? thats what I taught.. As only widening to one junction wont make a whole lot of difference!

Cookiemunster

marno21 wrote: »

The work on the central median can easily be done by shifting traffic over to the hard shoulder, there was works in the last year to strengthen the shoulder so it's suitable for traffic running.

Then the traffic can be shifted towards the centre so work can be done on the verges.

Obviously with a 60km/h limit.

I'm aware of that. My point was that rebuilding a heavily trafficked road and adding extra lanes while keeping said road open isn't as simple as 'just adding an extra lane'. It's building a whole new road while keeping the current traffic flowing through a construction site. This is what will slow it down. I'm sure they could do it much quicker if they could close the road.

rameire

benny79 wrote: »

Is it not going from J9 to J12? thats what I taught.. As only widening to one junction wont make a whole lot of difference!

nope Jn9 to jn11, 3 lanes.
re-jig of Jn9, new jn9a, jn10 rebuild and re-jig, jn11 end of construction.

pad199207

rameire wrote: »

nope Jn9 to jn11, 3 lanes.
re-jig of Jn9, new jn9a, jn10 rebuild and re-jig, jn11 end of construction.

What's the re jig of J9? Is it going to be different than the current interchange ?

marno21

pad199207 wrote: »

What's the re jig of J9? Is it going to be different than the current interchange ?

The only rejig that'll be taking place is that there'll no longer be a lane drop southbound/lane gain northbound and the 3 lanes will be continuing through the interchange.

spacetweek

I'd say the road widening element will be done in only 2 years. The Sallins Bypass element etc. will take place in the final year.
This is based on what I saw on the M50 during its road works.

_Kaiser_

I still remain unconvinced that just adding an extra lane to/from J11 will solve anything really for the disruption and cost involved

Just like the N7 from the M50, it'll be a case of most traffic sitting in lanes 2 and 3 with lane 1 pretty much empty most of the time, with the more impatient sorts weaving between all 3 lanes to try and get a car length ahead.
As it is, the existing J9-11 section (south) is a mess with cars jumping on at J9 and forcing their way into lane, ditto at 10, and then the brake light waves start as they dive for the M9 at the last minute.
I can't see that changing with an extra lane if M50 behavior is any indication. It may move the existing southbound problems to J11 I suppose

I think a far better use of the money would be to develop/find some sort of alternative route that takes the pressure off this one motorway from the M50 as far as Kildare town. Maybe do something with the N81? At the very least put in motorway grade link roads between the M4/7/N81 before you get to the M50... an "unofficial" outer M50 if you will, which I think would do a lot more to relieve the strain. Of course, if money was no object I'd link the M11 as well but you have the Wicklow mountains in the way.

I just don't see the ROI being worthwhile for this one.. and isn't it to be slowed to 100 km/h as well? That'll just be a mess.. as it is the 3-lane N7 is quite capable of handing 120 km/h much of the time... and indeed that's what a lot of traffic does anyway.

Sam Russell

A 10 km route could be built that would link the M4/N4 to the N7 linking Leixlip to Rathcoole (or thereabouts at both ends). Grade separated Dual Carriageway would suffice with a few exits for housing or business parks.

Middle Man

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I still remain unconvinced that just adding an extra lane to/from J11 will solve anything really for the disruption and cost involved

Just like the N7 from the M50, it'll be a case of most traffic sitting in lanes 2 and 3 with lane 1 pretty much empty most of the time, with the more impatient sorts weaving between all 3 lanes to try and get a car length ahead.
As it is, the existing J9-11 section (south) is a mess with cars jumping on at J9 and forcing their way into lane, ditto at 10, and then the brake light waves start as they dive for the M9 at the last minute.
I can't see that changing with an extra lane if M50 behavior is any indication. It may move the existing southbound problems to J11 I suppose

I think a far better use of the money would be to develop/find some sort of alternative route that takes the pressure off this one motorway from the M50 as far as Kildare town. Maybe do something with the N81? At the very least put in motorway grade link roads between the M4/7/N81 before you get to the M50... an "unofficial" outer M50 if you will, which I think would do a lot more to relieve the strain. Of course, if money was no object I'd link the M11 as well but you have the Wicklow mountains in the way.

I just don't see the ROI being worthwhile for this one.. and isn't it to be slowed to 100 km/h as well? That'll just be a mess.. as it is the 3-lane N7 is quite capable of handing 120 km/h much of the time... and indeed that's what a lot of traffic does anyway.

Put a few dedicated squad cars on it - bet that will change driving attitudes!

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

_Kaiser_

Middle Man wrote: »

Put a few dedicated squad cars on it - bet that will change driving attitudes!

Nope... if you follow the Garda Twitter (or the thread in Motors) you'll see that the Naas area is already one of the busiest for checkpoints and stops - but the behavior I'm talking about isn't covered by the limits of the "speeding" or "no tax/insurance" criteria that is all they're interested in.

Garda attitudes would have to change first - but that doesn't just extend to the Traffic Corps

pad199207

The contracts for this project aren't going to be awarded until June at least.

Did ya ever hear the likes?

Cookiemunster

pad199207 wrote: »

The contracts for this project aren't going to be awarded until June at least.

Did ya ever hear the likes?

It's how the procurement process occurs. It's slow but it's the same across all state funded projects.

NedNew2

No real news here but anyway...

https://www.kildarenow.com/news/e110-million-uopgrade-m7-co-kildare/143850

ukoda

Middle Man wrote: »

Put a few dedicated squad cars on it - bet that will change driving attitudes!

Over the last few months on occasions I've seen a squad car / bike parked on this stretch of road just sitting there with lights flashing. It caused absolutely chaos as every one was jamming on brakes and slowing down to stupid levels of speed and traffic backed up for about a mile.

Middle Man

ukoda wrote: »

Over the last few months on occasions I've seen a squad car / bike parked on this stretch of road just sitting there with lights flashing. It caused absolutely chaos as every one was jamming on brakes and slowing down to stupid levels of speed and traffic backed up for about a mile.

That's the problem - fixation on speed. Garda enforcement should also concentrate on lane discipline and safe distancing as well as general obedience regarding the rules of the road.

ukoda

Middle Man wrote: »

That's the problem - fixation on speed. Garda enforcement should also concentrate on lane discipline and safe distancing as well as general obedience regarding the rules of the road.

Yes they should pull people for hogging the outside and middle lane, but it starts with education, you shouldn't be allowed onto a motorway until someone explains to you that you keep left unless overtaking. Our driver testing needs an overhaul too I think

benny79

ukoda wrote: »

Yes they should pull people for hogging the outside and middle lane, but it starts with education, you shouldn't be allowed onto a motorway until someone explains to you that you keep left unless overtaking. Our driver testing needs an overhaul too I think

Although right... how is that visible in this country? Our road network and public transport is in the stone ages.. We are years behind.. the N7 is 3 lanes to Naas its bumper to bumper at peak times and not far off most of the day.. so how do they all fit in the left hand lane as the rules of the road state? its impossible..

Cookiemunster

benny79 wrote: »

Although right... how is that visible in this country? Our road network and public transport is in the stone ages.. We are years behind.. the N7 is 3 lanes to Naas its bumper to bumper at peak times and not far off most of the day.. so how do they all fit in the left hand lane as the rules of the road state? its impossible..

Most of the time on the N7 people drive in lane 2, overtake in lane 3 and leave lane 1 empty. You don't have to 'stay' in the left lane, but you're supposed to use it unless you're over taking.

Middle Man

Deedsie wrote: »

People's obsession with driving everywhere is the problem. There are alternative options for many people and many many unnecessary journeys.

The problem is the lack of interest regarding rail investment - the DART Inter-connector would make an enormous difference in terms of modal shift in the Dublin hinterland.

Cookiemunster

Deedsie wrote: »

Bus Éireann is in financial turmoil due to people not using it.

People aren't using the Expressway intercity services because there are faster and cheaper options available through private operators. This is losing millions every year. Amazingly though these private operators are able to fill hundreds of buses every day and make a profit.
People are using the normal local Bus Eireann services which are subsidised by the government.

gilly0512

I couldn't agree more that a dual carriageway linking the M7 and M4 would be a far more sensible option, and would stop the farcical situation of all traffic on the M7 which is the second busiest road in the country having to go as far as the M50 to continue their journey. A third lane on the M7 I believe will have the effect of making life better for commuters heading home in the evening, but I think it will also have the effect of clogging up the M50 much quicker in the mornings, as commuters no longer stuck in tailbacks between the M9/M7 merge and Junction 9, will now all of a sudden hit the M50 a lot sooner. So no real difference in the morning commute but definitely a difference in the evening, however who knows with the huge increases in traffic on the M7/N7, by the time this project is complete we could all be just sitting in a giant tailback from Naas to Dublin every morning, while our useless government sits back and does nothing. We need better link roads that don't all gravitate towards the M50, better public transport, but most of all we need to see more jobs going to towns like Naas, Newbridge, Kildare, Portlaoise, Carlow etc some of which are barely surviving, and only do so as they're commuter towns. The amount of traffic on the M7 at 6am is frightening, and only goes to show how far some people are travelling. This is a serious quality of life issue, but our government are perfectly content to see most new jobs go to Dublin, while the rest of the country either dies or barely gets by. You wouldn't hold up much hope that they will ever get it right, but it's shameful that so many people's lives are affected so badly by the shambolic thinking at the top in this country.

Sam Russell

gilly2308 wrote: »

I couldn't agree more that a dual carriageway linking the M7 and M4 would be a far more sensible option, and would stop the farcical situation of all traffic on the M7 which is the second busiest road in the country having to go as far as the M50 to continue their journey.

There should be a link road going from the N81, across to the N7 at Rathcoole and onto the N4/M4 at Lucan, and continues to south of Dunboyne (N3) and connected on to the N2. It would need to be a grade separated dual carriageway, with 100 km speed limit.

This would allow a large number of vehicles to avoid the M50.

benny79

gilly2308 wrote: »

The amount of traffic on the M7 at 6am is frightening, and only goes to show how far some people are travelling. This is a serious quality of life issue, but our government are perfectly content to see most new jobs go to Dublin, while the rest of the country either dies or barely gets by. You wouldn't hold up much hope that they will ever get it right, but it's shameful that so many people's lives are affected so badly by the shambolic thinking at the top in this country.

Tell me about it!! I spend 3 hrs a day commuting from Kildare to Dub... Like thousand others im sure...