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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

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    #1232
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,992 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    Plenty of room for extra lanes.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #1233
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    There's a hard shoulder on the vast majority of the overground section of the M50


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    #1234
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


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    #1235
    pad199207
    Registered Users Posts: 7,190 ✭✭✭pad199207


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    One extra lane each side and plenty of space.

    The one thing they got right when laying it initially was to ensure enough space for extra lane.

    there would be enough space for 4 lanes in each direction, but sure look our traffic jams aren’t “bad enough” to facilitate 4 lane motorways in Ireland


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    #1236
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


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    #1237
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,992 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    pad199207 wrote: »
    there would be enough space for 4 lanes in each direction, but sure look our traffic jams aren’t “bad enough” to facilitate 4 lane motorways in Ireland

    It's typical Ireland, no forward thinking whatsoever.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #1238
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Tyson Fury wrote: »
    It's typical Ireland, no forward thinking whatsoever.

    Yep, typical Irish negative comment.

    When the m50 was built, not only did they ensure enough room for three lanes, they did most of the ground works so that when it was widened, it was relatively simple.

    Excellent forward thinking.

    And there are four lanes between finglas and tallaght.


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    #1239
    Pablod
    Registered Users Posts: 489 ✭✭Pablod


    Don't want to sound negative but it will only be a matter of time shortly after its finished that volumes increase and we'll be back to square one again..
    In addition to the extra 3rd lane they should put an auxiliary lane between jn10 & jn11 - the space is there for it


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    #1240
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    Tyson Fury wrote: »
    It's typical Ireland, no forward thinking whatsoever.
    Forward thinking would have meant the inclusion of the DART Expansion programme as a major part of the solution regarding the development of the motorway network around Dublin - it is obvious that the M50 in it's current form works pretty well outside of peak hours, but anyone with half a brain would have known that the M50 along with the upgraded radials alone could never cope with the peak demand - had the DART Expansion been implemented straight after the M50 upgrade, so many cars would have been taken off the roads and thousands more people would be on the trains.


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    #1241
    benny79
    Registered Users Posts: 3,136 ✭✭✭benny79


    Middle Man wrote: »
    Forward thinking would have meant the inclusion of the DART Expansion programme as a major part of the solution regarding the development of the motorway network around Dublin - it is obvious that the M50 in it's current form works pretty well outside of peak hours, but anyone with half a brain would have known that the M50 along with the upgraded radials alone could never cope with the peak demand - had the DART Expansion been implemented straight after the M50 upgrade, so many cars would have been taken off the roads and thousands more people would be on the trains.

    Or an underground which is proven to work in loads of countries all over the world but that would make sense wouldn't it.


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    #1242
    SoupyNorman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭SoupyNorman


    Pablod wrote: »
    Don't want to sound negative but it will only be a matter of time shortly after its finished that volumes increase and we'll be back to square one again..
    In addition to the extra 3rd lane they should put an auxiliary lane between jn10 & jn11 - the space is there for it

    Cant say I fully agree, Red cow to Naas North generally moves well in peak rush hour as long as there are no accidents, going from 3 to 2 lanes is obviously the huge bottleneck. I get what your saying but I think the way to sort that road out once and for all is average speed cameras, looks to have worked wonders in the port tunnel.

    It's not just about volume on the road, it's the aggressive driving we all see on a daily basis. If everyone had to stick to 100kph, you'd see improvements overnight.


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    #1243
    Pablod
    Registered Users Posts: 489 ✭✭Pablod


    SoupyNorman wrote: »
    Cant say I fully agree, Red cow to Naas North generally moves well in peak rush hour as long as there are no accidents, going from 3 to 2 lanes is obviously the huge bottleneck. I get what your saying but I think the way to sort that road out once and for all is average speed cameras, looks to have worked wonders in the port tunnel.

    It's not just about volume on the road, it's the aggressive driving we all see on a daily basis. If everyone had to stick to 100kph, you'd see improvements overnight.

    Yes I agree the main bottle neck is at jn9 3 to 2 lanes,

    But I still think an auxiliary lane between jn10 & jn11 would help a lot, because there is a 2nd type of bottleneck between jn10 & jn11 and that ties into your 2nd point with driver behaviour...
    There is the volume of traffic trying to get off at jn11 conflicting with traffic carrying beyond jn11 in combination with slow traffic sitting on the inside lane which causes driver to get aggressive and lane hope, then jump off at jn11 at last minute...


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    #1244
    s14driftking
    Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭s14driftking


    The barriers took there first victim today an Naas North exit and car was going south. Didn’t look to be any barriers moved or damaged but I’d imagion the car is wrote off


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    #1245
    regedit
    Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭regedit


    At these early days, when barriers are just being erected and drivers are just getting used to new layout, I cannot but not remark the total lack of driving culture among some (unfortunately) most drivers. AS someone commented previously its pretty much dangerous doing 60 km/h. I've had cars beeping the horn and flashing the lights at me. People are nervous, stressed out and agitated and everyone wants to get to work/home asap.
    i think there needs to be a much stronger Garda presence. Average speed cameras would be the best solution and obviate the need for widening I suppose...


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    #1246
    sea12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,244 ✭✭✭sea12


    I know mod has said we can't talk about speed on this section. But seriously just keep up with the flow of traffic and you won't be causing an accident. Guards won't pick u out if your in the flow of traffic. U'll only cause an accident trying to be a hero sticking to 60 km.

    Anyway I see they have made decent progress in the last week. The hedge has broadly being removed. The dividing wire is up on most of it and the they are digging up the posts.


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    #1247
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Tyson Fury wrote: »
    It's typical Ireland, no forward thinking whatsoever.
    Well the Naas Bypass was left with enough space for 6 lanes 35 years in advance (it opened in 1983).


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    #1248
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    The whole of the M7 to Portlaoise was built with D3 in mind. Its a shame the M7 from Portlaoise to the M7/8 split wasn't.

    In fact the only bit of the interurbans modern builds with D3 future proofing is the M6 from Rathmorrisey into Galway.


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    #1249
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


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    #1250
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    benny79 wrote: »
    Or an underground which is proven to work in loads of countries all over the world but that would make sense wouldn't it.
    The DART Underground would be an essential element of the DART Expansion Programme. However, we'd also need to see lines like Metro North etc.

    This is my 1000th post!


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    #1251
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    benny79 wrote: »
    Or an underground which is proven to work in loads of countries all over the world but that would make sense wouldn't it.

    How many cities with a population of about 1.2m have an underground?

    In London, crossrail is costing almost €20 billion.

    To put it in perspective, the M9 from kilcullen to Waterford cost €1.5bn.

    The proposed m45 outer ring road has a current cost estimate of about €2.2bn.


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    #1252
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    How many cities with a population of about 1.2m have an underground?

    In London, crossrail is costing almost €20 billion.

    To put it in perspective, the M9 from kilcullen to Waterford cost €1.5bn.

    The proposed m45 outer ring road has a current cost estimate of about €2.2bn.
    Here's one - the very next country!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyne_and_Wear_Metro

    ...and one in Dublin's European lookalike!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_Metro


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    #1253
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    The whole of the M7 to Portlaoise was built with D3 in mind. Its a shame the M7 from Portlaoise to the M7/8 split wasn't.

    In fact the only bit of the interurbans modern builds with D3 future proofing is the M6 from Rathmorrisey into Galway.

    I think if we ever reach the stage where traffic on the M7 between J18 and J19 is above capacity then we need to be talking about 5/6 lanes east of Naas

    If you put all the M6, N17 and N18 cars onto the Rathmorrissey-Galway stretch you could see volumes reaching capacity but I can't see this ever happening given current M17 usage. It shows our definition of "future proofing" that the M6 west of Rathmorrissey is specced for 3 lanes but ends at an at grade roundabout.


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    #1254
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭serfboard


    marno21 wrote: »
    It shows our definition of "future proofing" that the M6 west of Rathmorrissey is specced for 3 lanes but ends at an at grade roundabout.
    To be fair, you know (or you should know) that the intention was for the M6 to continue around Galway via the Galway City Bypass/Outer Ring Road and that the termination at an at-grade roundabout was a "temporary little measure".


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    #1255
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Middle Man wrote: »
    Here's one - the very next country!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyne_and_Wear_Metro

    ...and one in Dublin's European lookalike!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_Metro

    They are not underground systems - only part are underground.

    Similarly in Dublin there are plans for part underground service, but never a full underground system.

    There are hundreds of cities similar size to Dublin, but very few even have a part underground system as the cost is prohibitive.

    It would be lovely to have one - but the tax increases to fund it would be crazy


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    #1256
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    No.

    But it still seemed a bit silly to have that final 15 or so km of narrow median, narrow bridges when the whole of the rest of the route to Dublin is wide median.


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    #1257
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    marno21 wrote: »
    I think if we ever reach the stage where traffic on the M7 between J18 and J19 is above capacity then we need to be talking about 5/6 lanes east of Naas

    If you put all the M6, N17 and N18 cars onto the Rathmorrissey-Galway stretch you could see volumes reaching capacity but I can't see this ever happening given current M17 usage. It shows our definition of "future proofing" that the M6 west of Rathmorrissey is specced for 3 lanes but ends at an at grade roundabout.

    I'd say if that happens we should be looking at a new route to be honest. The M25 proves that 4 and 5 lanes doesn't necessarily improve things, and especially not unless there is a sea-change in attitudes to lane discipline along with VSL. As it is, J1/J9M50 needs a total redesign and access to Monsastery Road removed but that will only help access to the M50 and do nothing for those stuck in the perpetual problem of access to the City.

    The N81 could probably be dualled/tripled in time to meet the M9 east of Naas with minimal CPO, although it would be maybe 1km parallell to the N7 for a km or two - and of course the terrain is challenging.

    North through Kildare could also work, there's about 6 industrial units in the way but plenty of space at Parkwest to finally fix the M50 junction 8 issue!

    Long term - like, after 2040 - I can't see how the N7 alone can be the only link to pretty much everything south of Galway and west of Portlaoise.


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    #1258
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »

    In fact the only bit of the interurbans modern builds with D3 future proofing is the M6 from Rathmorrisey into Galway.
    Apart from the M1 Airport to Lissenhall which was D3'd with little fuss a few years ago
    the M11 south of Newtownmountkennedy
    the M11 Arklow isn't a modern build
    The M4 tolled section - the original M4 is also wide, but again not a modern build
    ...


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    #1259
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Apart from the M1 Airport to Lissenhall which was D3'd with little fuss a few years ago
    the M11 south of Newtownmountkennedy
    the M11 Arklow isn't a modern build
    The M4 tolled section - the original M4 is also wide, but again not a modern build
    ...
    He's referring to modern builds as in the stretches of dual carriageway/motorway opened under Transport 21, namely Limerick-Portlaoise, Rathcormac-Portlaoise, Kinnegad-Galway etc

    The original motorway plans were Dublin-Dundalk, Dublin-Kinnegad, Dublin-Portlaoise and Dublin-Bray with the M50 also, and these were all built to a very high spec


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    #1260
    sea12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,244 ✭✭✭sea12


    Slow but steady progress removing the hedgerow and steel rope where they have it barricades off. About 3/4 of it down now. Such a pity they won't work weekends at it when roads are quiet. An extra 4o% time available gone to waste


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    #1261
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,413 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    sea12 wrote: »
    Slow but steady progress removing the hedgerow and steel rope where they have it barricades off. About 3/4 of it down now. Such a pity they won't work weekends at it when roads are quiet. An extra 4o% time available gone to waste

    It seems in this country we can't plan infrastructure and then when it comes (usually two decades later), we can't build it at an appropriate speed either.


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