M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

Sam Russell · 06-11-2018 10:29pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It might work between friends or colleagues, but most people aren't going to share their car with a random stranger.

The way car shares work is the Bil and Joe drive to the car park, and first day Bill drives Joe to work in his car. Next day Joe drives thenm both in his car.

So both save 50% of their osts from the car park to work. They also save on wear and tear of both car and nerves.

It is a win - win for both Bill and Joe.

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-11-2018 10:32pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

The way car shares work is the Bil and Joe drive to the car park, and first day Bill drives Joe to work in his car. Next day Joe drives thenm both in his car.

So both save 50% of their osts from the car park to work. They also save on wear and tear of both car and nerves.

It is a win - win for both Bill and Joe.

Then Joe messes about some day and doesn't show up or Bill ends up late delaying them both.

Sam Russell · 06-11-2018 10:51pm

Patww79 wrote: »

Then Joe messes about some day and doesn't show up or Bill ends up late delaying them both.

Thank godness that mobile phones exist. If Joe or Bill are later than an agreed time, then they both proceed on their own - no biggie. f it works 9 times out of ten then great. Even five out of tn is worth it. If it is nine out of ten, that is nearly a 50% reduction in traffic.

gilly1910 · 07-11-2018 9:41am

WhatsGoingOn2 wrote: »

benny79 wrote: »

This will never happen but I say it anyway.. To solve all the traffic congestion we need a proper underground, the likes of the Tube in London. That services all of Dublin and out to commuter towns (coming above ground if needs be) This should of being done instead of the Luas imo.. As traffic will continually get worse and a underground tube system is proven to work in many countries all over the world!

But like everything else common sense doesn't apply to the Governments of this Country to busy lining their own pockets!!

And how long would that take? Between planning, financing, and actually implementing, it would be at least 20 years. At that point autonomous vehicles will be the norm, which will be the single biggest factor in reducing traffic on our roads. People won't own their own cars anymore, they will be able to summon them as required. And since people will not be in control, the traffic issues due to bad driving will be removed.

You're hopeful with 20 years, it actually took 27 years all in all to complete the M50 as it stands, so if it took them that long to build a motorway, god only knows how long it would take to build an underground. An underground is never going to happen here, most of the great undergrounds of the world (London, New-York, Paris) started theirs back in the 1800s, so one can only imagine the cost and disruption that would be caused by even attempting an underground in Dublin in this day and age. We've been talking about building a rail link/metro/underground out to the airport for as long as I can remember, yet here we are in 2018, and they're still no closer to it. We are great at coming up with grandiose plans that rarely see the light of day, but lets face facts folks, it's highly unlikely that we will ever see a proper Public transport system in this country.

SeeMoreBut · 07-11-2018 9:46am

Sam Russell wrote: »

Thank godness that mobile phones exist. If Joe or Bill are later than an agreed time, then they both proceed on their own - no biggie. f it works 9 times out of ten then great. Even five out of tn is worth it. If it is nine out of ten, that is nearly a 50% reduction in traffic.

What happens if Joe can't leave the same time as Bill? Bill sits around to wait for Joe?

benny79 · 07-11-2018 11:12am

gilly1910 wrote: »

You're hopeful with 20 years, it actually took 27 years all in all to complete the M50 as it stands, so if it took them that long to build a motorway, god only knows how long it would take to build an underground. An underground is never going to happen here, most of the great undergrounds of the world (London, New-York, Paris) started theirs back in the 1800s, so one can only imagine the cost and disruption that would be caused by even attempting an underground in Dublin in this day and age. We've been talking about building a rail link/metro/underground out to the airport for as long as I can remember, yet here we are in 2018, and they're still no closer to it. We are great at coming up with grandiose plans that rarely see the light of day, but lets face facts folks, it's highly unlikely that we will ever see a proper Public transport system in this country.

Totally agree and proves my point ie The Governments fault. To much talk & not enough action.

I do agree a underground would take years but so did the lucas you have to start somewhere for the future generations plus the fact there is already tunnels under Dublin city. I think some part of the metro was to be underground.

But I agree it will never happen sure the M7 upgrade should of been done years ago and according to the experts we are 5+ years behind on infrastructure

Avatar MIA · 07-11-2018 1:22pm

benny79 wrote: »

according to the experts we are 5+ years behind on infrastructure

Considering we've come out of a 10 year deep recession it's not bad going.

riddlinrussell · 07-11-2018 4:33pm

gilly1910 wrote: »

An underground is never going to happen here, most of the great undergrounds of the world (London, New-York, Paris) started theirs back in the 1800s, so one can only imagine the cost and disruption that would be caused by even attempting an underground in Dublin in this day and age.

No need to Imagine!

Cost Benefit Analysis for an Underground... In Dublin!

Sam Russell · 07-11-2018 4:44pm

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

What happens if Joe can't leave the same time as Bill? Bill sits around to wait for Joe?

I am sure they can come to an agreeable solution. If it happens often, then Joe will have to find a new car-share friend, and so will Bill.

It would not work if they do not work regular hours, but most people do.

marno21 · 07-11-2018 5:10pm

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Considering we've come out of a 10 year deep recession it's not bad going.

The last 10 years would have been an ideal time to build, or at least plan, these projects. At the minute we are paying a premium on land, labour and construction costs. Those were not there during the Kenny years. We also have a shortage of projects to be built around 2021 because no money whatsoever was spent on these during 2011-2017.

07-11-2018 8:41pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

The way car shares work is the Bil and Joe drive to the car park, and first day Bill drives Joe to work in his car. Next day Joe drives thenm both in his car.

So both save 50% of their osts from the car park to work. They also save on wear and tear of both car and nerves.

It is a win - win for both Bill and Joe.

I used to do car sharing back in the 1980s just after the Iran crisis, there were three of us.
It was not the easiest of car shares as two of us lived in one village the third in another and we worked in two different areas of the same town.
So for the first leg, two of us would get into one car and drive five miles to meet the third person. Then take one car to the next town and loop around the ring road, left if I was a passenger, they would drop me off then go around to their workplace and right if I was driving to drop them off before going to work.

At a time of high fuel prices and a risk of rationing, it seemed a good idea at the time, but it wasn't easy.

Avatar MIA · 07-11-2018 9:25pm

marno21 wrote: »

The last 10 years would have been an ideal time to build, or at least plan, these projects. At the minute we are paying a premium on land, labour and construction costs. Those were not there during the Kenny years. We also have a shortage of projects to be built around 2021 because no money whatsoever was spent on these during 2011-2017.

Strangely, prices were cheap for a reason. There was no money, least of all for an IMF (have people forgotten them ?!?) Monitored government.

Sam Russell · 07-11-2018 10:30pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I used to do car sharing back in the 1980s just after the Iran crisis, there were three of us.
It was not the easiest of car shares as two of us lived in one village the third in another and we worked in two different areas of the same town.
So for the first leg, two of us would get into one car and drive five miles to meet the third person. Then take one car to the next town and loop around the ring road, left if I was a passenger, they would drop me off then go around to their workplace and right if I was driving to drop them off before going to work.

At a time of high fuel prices and a risk of rationing, it seemed a good idea at the time, but it wasn't easy.

Those conditions cold be created if parking was a serious problem or very costly, or by a congestion charge.

08-11-2018 12:57am

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Strangely, prices were cheap for a reason. There was no money, least of all for an IMF (have people forgotten them ?!?) Monitored government.

The European Investment Bank were crying out for long-term infrastructural projects to fund. The IMF also became much more pro-infrastructural spending (within reason) during the last 7 years. What they disapprove of are things like increasing spending on social welfare during a recession, not long-term investments on infrastructure or human capital.

marno21 · 08-11-2018 5:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The European Investment Bank were crying out for long-term infrastructural projects to fund. The IMF also became much more pro-infrastructural spending (within reason) during the last 7 years. What they disapprove of are things like increasing spending on social welfare during a recession, not long-term investments on infrastructure or human capital.

+ a number of infrastructure projects in early planning could have been nightlit to get them to the stage where they could be funded for construction in 2019-2022. Instead, these projects were outright cancelled and many have to start from scratch in 2016/17/18/19, which means they will be ready to start in 2024 or so. It's a total mess that could have been avoided if the kneejerkism that took place around 2011 hadn't taken place.

Sure sending projects to construction in 2011-15 was difficult, but funding these, which is approx 1-5% of project cost, would have been prudent. The cost of getting the M20 to An Bord Pleanala is €15-20m. Had this been spent in 2013-2016, it would be ready to start shortly. Instead it won't start for at least 4 years.

Thatnastyboy · 08-11-2018 5:58pm

marno21 wrote: »

+ a number of infrastructure projects in early planning could have been nightlit to get them to the stage where they could be funded for construction in 2019-2022. Instead, these projects were outright cancelled and many have to start from scratch in 2016/17/18/19, which means they will be ready to start in 2024 or so. It's a total mess that could have been avoided if the kneejerkism that took place around 2011 hadn't taken place.

Sure sending projects to construction in 2011-15 was difficult, but funding these, which is approx 1-5% of project cost, would have been prudent. The cost of getting the M20 to An Bord Pleanala is €15-20m. Had this been spent in 2013-2016, it would be ready to start shortly. Instead it won't start for at least 4 years.

While it makes perfect sense above -

Could you imagine the vitriol and backlash that would have came from the public if money was continued to be spent on essentially "shelved" infrastructure projects during that time.

Just wouldn't have flown with the public - just like with the whole Irish water craic etc. etc.

hondar · 08-11-2018 8:09pm

marno21 wrote: »

+ a number of infrastructure projects in early planning could have been nightlit to get them to the stage where they could be funded for construction in 2019-2022. Instead, these projects were outright cancelled and many have to start from scratch in 2016/17/18/19, which means they will be ready to start in 2024 or so. It's a total mess that could have been avoided if the kneejerkism that took place around 2011 hadn't taken place.

Sure sending projects to construction in 2011-15 was difficult, but funding these, which is approx 1-5% of project cost, would have been prudent. The cost of getting the M20 to An Bord Pleanala is €15-20m. Had this been spent in 2013-2016, it would be ready to start shortly. Instead it won't start for at least 4 years.

what's that got to do with the construction of the M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade.

spacetweek · 08-11-2018 10:46pm

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

While it makes perfect sense above -

Could you imagine the vitriol and backlash that would have came from the public if money was continued to be spent on essentially "shelved" infrastructure projects during that time.

Just wouldn't have flown with the public - just like with the whole Irish water craic etc. etc.

They wouldn't have noticed - people on here are interested in infrastructure development, ordinary joes aren't.

Graniteville · 09-11-2018 11:30pm

I'll just give a small amount of information.

Currently there are in excess of thirty crews working on this project.

It is on time.

The three lanes will be fully open by Easter weekend next year.

The sallins bypass and osberstown junction will open fully by September next year.

As for 24/7 works? Totally unfeasible.

Fine for simple works such as asphalt laying, but not for anything else.

Health and safety would be one issue. Cost (multiple times that of daylight working) is another. Errors due to lack of light is a third.

In any case, with almost 15km of works plus two new junctions, plus the sallins bypass, there's space and work for all available teams and project managers in normal hours.

One customer says the time delay suits the overall contractor??

How can he/she work that out. Cost is the same whether finished in April or September. If it's not delivered on time, fines are gigantic.

It was a competitive tender. Development time is as important as cost.

Huge benefits of finishing early including having contractors move to next project and bragging rights that can help win other contracts.

Easter week 2019 is the date.

marno21 · 10-11-2018 7:26pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Can the above post be stickied to the opening post and can the inevitable future whingers be refferred to it rather than taking the thread off topic over and over again?

It can't really. But it can be quoted in future. And it will be

AugustusMinimus · 11-11-2018 9:41am

Has any part of the 3 lanes section opened yet or will it be opened in one go in April next year?

Cazale · 11-11-2018 10:10am

AugustusMinimus wrote:

Has any part of the 3 lanes section opened yet or will it be opened in one go in April next year?

None open. It'll open together.

Pete_Cavan · 12-11-2018 1:24pm

Graniteville wrote: »

As for 24/7 works? Totally unfeasible.

Fine for simple works such as asphalt laying, but not for anything else.

Health and safety would be one issue. Cost (multiple times that of daylight working) is another. Errors due to lack of light is a third.

Also it would be extremely difficult to get the labour to work those night shifts. The construction sector is already suffering from a shortage of labour and poaching between contractors, most people will refuse to work nights and anyone wanting to work nights is already doing so. If they tried to impose night working on existing men, they would walk off this one and onto another site the next day.

It was a competitive tender. Development time is as important as cost.

Huge benefits of finishing early including having contractors move to next project and bragging rights that can help win other contracts.

The main benefit in finishing early is saving weeks/months of labour and plant hire costs. It's a fixed price contract, the contractor gets paid the same if they finish early but their costs stop the day they hand over. Anyone saying that their is no incentive for finishing early has no clue.

Avatar MIA · 12-11-2018 1:31pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Anyone saying that their is no incentive for finishing early has no clue.

Wont disagree with this. However, did the extent to which they cordoned off the M7 as far as they did help them to speed it up somewhat, albeit causing significantly more delays to traffic than if they did not section off quite as much of the motorway as they did - J8 to J11 ~ 20km?

hero001 · 12-11-2018 5:58pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Has any part of the 3 lanes section opened yet or will it be opened in one go in April next year?

It looks like they have put down a fair amount of tar for the new lanes at this stage. I think that the next stage in the construction calls for 2 lanes each way on a single carriage. From what I have read, the new bridge at Kerry can't progress until this happens.

I noticed yesterday that they have removed part of the recently installed section of the concrete barrier past the new bridge at Kerry, so there must have been some sort of problem with it.