M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

vincedh

benny79 wrote: »

20 months for wideninng of lanes 9 junctions long of motorway or 15 months for the widening of 2 juctions long of motorway do the maths.

Rathcoole to Naas = 11.8km.
Naas ball to M7/M9 merge = 13.7km.

There's the maths.

Kevwoody

benny79 wrote:

20 months for wideninng of lanes 9 junctions long of motorway or 15 months for the widening of 2 juctions long of motorway do the maths.

Since when did the amount of junctions become a measurement?

You do know that all motorway junctions are different distances apart?

pburns

I find maintaining 60 really difficult. Invariably one lane is moving at 50 (it feels like you could get out & walk faster) while the other has drivers creeping up to 70/80/90.

I hope it's worth it, I'm expecting even bigger log-jams on the M50 & Naas Rd...

BuzzFish

Kevwoody wrote: »

No vested interests here, just some people have a little more civil engineering knowledge and general cop on than others.

Same as this. No vested interest and not a civil engineer. Just running on common sense!

Interested Observer

Emme wrote: »

People have been cheerleading the "progress" throughout this thread but in my opinion and in the opinions of many others who have had to drive on the road over the last two years the lack of progress is indefensible. In any other civilised country the job would have been finished long ago. All hands should have been on deck 24/7 to get this job done but the contractors seem to be dragging the job out as long as possible.

Tell us how long this should take in a civilised country then please.

Oh wait, you don't have the faintest idea? Grand.

pburns

http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20190405-the-secret-about-delays-airlines-dont-want-you-to-know

Interested Observer

pburns wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20190405-the-secret-about-delays-airlines-dont-want-you-to-know

Except I can't see any benefit to this for a road contractor, because if they spend overly long working on this then they're not working on something else. It's such a different situation that the comparison is pointless.

Emme

Interested Observer wrote: »

Tell us how long this should take in a civilised country then please.

Oh wait, you don't have the faintest idea? Grand.

8 months maybe?

There are more civil engineers on this thread than there are speed vans on the N7.

Interested Observer

Emme wrote: »

8 months maybe?

There are more civil engineers on this thread than there are speed vans on the N7.

You've just picked an arbitrary number here though. It's not based on anything.

Odyssey 2005

pburns wrote: »

I

I hope it's worth it, I'm expecting even bigger log-jams on the M50 & Naas Rd...

This.
The road should have been widened out bound,the naas rd and M50 cant handle present traffic volumes, they'll be even worse upon completion of these works.

benny79

vincedh wrote: »

Rathcoole to Naas = 11.8km.
Naas ball to M7/M9 merge = 13.7km.

There's the maths.

Where did you get that from?

Rathcoole?? Did the 3 lanes not start from Newlands cross?

Kevwoody wrote: »

Since when did the amount of junctions become a measurement?

You do know that all motorway junctions are different distances apart?

Yes. But I dont exactly have a tape to measure! My point was it was a much longer stretch of road..

Look everyone and their dog knows this could of been done quicker! Its no fault of the engineers or the workers. The fault is at the Transport Minister and the government and the real fact of the matter is this upgrade should of being done 5 years ago as we are only playing catch up with the volume of traffic on our roads.

Kevwoody

Emme wrote:

There are more civil engineers on this thread than there are speed vans on the N7.

2?

Cookiemunster

benny79 wrote: »

Where did you get that from?

Rathcoole?? Did the 3 lanes not start from Newlands cross?





Yes. But I dont exactly have a tape to measure! My point was it was a much longer stretch of road..

Look everyone and their dog knows this could of been done quicker! Its no fault of the engineers or the workers. The fault is at the Transport Minister and the government and the real fact of the matter is this upgrade should of being done 5 years ago as we are only playing catch up with the volume of traffic on our roads.

Anything can be done quicker if enough resources are thrown at it, but that costs a lot more money. While the economy is improving, the country isn't exactly awash with cash. So what services would you have cut to make the disruption to your daily commute shorter?

Interested Observer

14.5km of the road was widened back in the early 2000s.

SoupyNorman

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Anything can be done quicker if enough resources are thrown at it, but that costs a lot more money. While the economy is improving, the country isn't exactly awash with cash. So what services would you have cut to make the disruption to your daily commute shorter?

Yes, working in IT we have many projects on the go. They can of course be finished faster if you add resources but you cant because you must stick to a budget, same applies to any scenario.

Im sure if you wanted to build house in 2 months you could if you had 30 workers going day and night….not realistic. N7 upgrade is a substantial project with a lot of prep work (bridges, drainage, off ramps etc) to be completed, work you don’t see so assume progress is slow.

The armchair experts and be moaners are really putting a dampener on what is going to be a substantial improvement on commuting in and out of the city, I don’t really mind if the lane opening is delayed a little, I also don’t mind if the 60kph is kept while the rest is completed. Have 3 lanes each side and a hard shoulder will be a drastic improvement.

benny79

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Anything can be done quicker if enough resources are thrown at it, but that costs a lot more money. While the economy is improving, the country isn't exactly awash with cash. So what services would you have cut to make the disruption to your daily commute shorter?

Not awash with cash are you joking? They found an extra €500 million+ for the New Childrens hospital handy enough. Its the Countries national road it should of being given top priority!

Cookiemunster

benny79 wrote: »

Not awash with cash are you joking? They found an extra €500 million+ for the New Childrens hospital handy enough. Its the Countries national road it should of being given top priority!

Before the crash we had a national budget if €77bn. Our last budget was €66bn, so were still €11bn below 2008 levels. We also have to pay for the massive debt built up during the bail out that didn't exist in 2008. And the €100m extra (not €500m) from this years budget for the childrens hosptial came from cutting budgets of other departments.

We are not awash with cash. Your knowledge of the economy is obviously as vague as your knowledge of civil engineering.

Emme

SoupyNorman wrote: »

The armchair experts and be moaners are really putting a dampener on what is going to be a substantial improvement on commuting in and out of the city, I don’t really mind if the lane opening is delayed a little, I also don’t mind if the 60kph is kept while the rest is completed. Have 3 lanes each side and a hard shoulder will be a drastic improvement.

If people have to travel at 60kmph after ithe lanes are it won't be an improvement except there will be a hard shoulder to wait for ambulances in. Oh, and more choice of parking spaces for speed vans. How long is it going to take to complete the rest? Somebody mentioned October but I suspect it won't be finished this time next year so we'll be crawling along at 60kmph for the foreseeable future.

The delays and inconveniences are lauded by shills on this thread - voices of complaint such as mine are drowned out. I wonder do any of the people defending the project have to commute in and out of Dublin to work every day on the N7. I suspect not but some shills might pop up like mushrooms stating that they commute every day and the contractors are doing a great job and shure it's no problem travelling at 60kmph max taking at least twice as long to get from point A to B than it should. Shure isn't it great sitting in the car 4 hours or more a day listening to Newstalk or the like.

Cookiemunster

When you see someone use the word 'shills', you know it's time to tune out.

Emme

Cookiemunster wrote: »

When you see someone use the word 'shills', you know it's time to tune out.

The truth hurts.

pburns

The similarity is more to do with the behavioural economics of building an inflated completion time into public announcements & then looking like a hero for meeting deadlines.

That's just one of the holes in your assertation...

iseegirls

I don't mind it.
I like looking at it every week, seeing progress, the lane changes, where most of the work is going on etc... The end result will be positive - definitely going southbound at least. There's more to life than complaining about spending an extra 10 or so minutes in the comfort and heat of your own car, listening to whatever radio and music, while roadworks are ongoing and driving at a safe speed.

But if I rock up late to work some mornings these days, I can just blame to roadworks. Won't be able to use that excuse in another while.

prunudo

I often wonder do the people who complain about projects not being completed quick enough actually live in Ireland.
Lets say they were to work 24/7. Thats 168 hrs of possible work or in other words 3.5 48hr shifts. So lets call that 4 shifts (possibly 5 if you were to factor in leave and other factors) so we need 4 times the amount of construction workers, engineers and every other profession that is required. In case people haven't noticed there is a shortage in construction workers as it is.

Now lets say we find all these extra staff, what about the noise for the neighbouring houses. As bad as road noise can be there would complaints about 24hr a day construction noise.

So lets now say that the near by residents were looked after. What about the delivery drivers, they will also need to work shifts to accommodate the 24hr work, so more truck drivers, again there's a shortage here too. And what about where these delivers come from. Next thing the neighbours will be giving out because the plants and yards are operating 24/7.

In a country where objecting and nimbyism seem to be national pastimes building a project like this would never get off the ground.

SoupyNorman

Emme wrote: »

....The delays and inconveniences are lauded by shills on this thread - voices of complaint such as mine are drowned out. I wonder do any of the people defending the project have to commute in and out of Dublin to work every day on the N7. I suspect not but some shills might pop up like mushrooms stating that they commute every day and the contractors are doing a great job and shure it's no problem travelling at 60kmph max taking at least twice as long to get from point A to B than it should. Shure isn't it great sitting in the car 4 hours or more a day listening to Newstalk or the like.

Well I do in case you were trying to out me as a shill.

benny79

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Before the crash we had a national budget if €77bn. Our last budget was €66bn, so were still €11bn below 2008 levels. We also have to pay for the massive debt built up during the bail out that didn't exist in 2008. And the €100m extra (not €500m) from this years budget for the childrens hosptial came from cutting budgets of other departments.

We are not awash with cash. Your knowledge of the economy is obviously as vague as your knowledge of civil engineering.

So the childrens hosptial was budgeted at €750 Million they just announced on "TODAYs" news thats the rise in costs etc.. it more than likely be €1.7 Billion So my bad its nearly a Billion over budget! Which I think is a little bit more than €100 Million That makes me believe we are in fact a wash with cash since they can get a extra Billion... must of found it down the back of the couch! :rolleyes:

Anyway slightly off topic but my point still stands it could of easily being done quicker!

And I never claimed to know about civil engineering! but I have worked and travelled the world and have lived in other countries and seen bigger projests done in less time.. So dont be naive to think just because you have knowlodge about civil engneering your right.. As I already stated newlands cross to naas was done quicker.. Doesnt take a civil engineer to see that! I have travelled the road daily the last 20 years. I even know what lanes move faster at certain junctions im on it that much!

Question for people doing this commute at rush hours.

How much does the 60kmh limit add to your journey time compared to before the road works begun?

Cookiemunster

benny79 wrote: »

So the childrens hosptial was budgeted at €750 Million they just announced on "TODAYs" news thats the rise in costs etc.. it more than likely be €1.7 Billion So my bad its nearly a Billion over budget! Which I think is a little bit more than €100 Million That makes me believe we are in fact a wash with cash since they can get a extra Billion... must of found it down the back of the couch! :rolleyes:

Anyway slightly off topic but my point still stands it could of easily being done quicker!

And I never claimed to know about civil engineering! but I have worked and travelled the world and have lived in other countries and seen bigger projests done in less time.. So dont be naive to think just because you have knowlodge about civil engneering your right.. As I already stated newlands cross to naas was done quicker.. Doesnt take a civil engineer to see that! I have travelled the road daily the last 20 years. I even know what lanes move faster at certain junctions im on it that much!

€1.7bn is not being put up for the hospital in one go. It's the total budget over it's complete design, build and fit out. Each year a portion of the national budget is set aside to finance it. And as I have said cost overruns have been taken from the budgets of other government departments. or form other health infrastructure projects. It's not been found 'down the back of a couch'.

Again, yes it could have been done quicker, but it would have cost a lot more money, which would have been at the expense of other projects due to the limited budget.

KBurke85

ronoc wrote: »

Question for people doing this commute at rush hours.

How much does the 60kmh limit add to your journey time compared to before the road works begun?

I find between the two Naas exits in the evening there is so much traffic that there are plenty of spots where you can't even get up to 60. It can be very stop start.
My journey time is probably 20 mins or so longer in the evenings compared to before the roadworks started. Pretty sure the amount of cars on the road increased in that time which would be a factor as well as the works and speed limit.

benny79

Cookiemunster wrote: »

€1.7bn is not being put up for the hospital in one go. It's the total budget over it's complete design, build and fit out. Each year a portion of the national budget is set aside to finance it. And as I have said cost overruns have been taken from the budgets of other government departments. or form other health infrastructure projects. It's not been found 'down the back of a couch'.

Again, yes it could have been done quicker, but it would have cost a lot more money, which would have been at the expense of other projects due to the limited budget.

Thats the only point I was making that it could of being done quicker! which you just agreed. Obviously it would cost more that goes without saying but they should of spent it! but obviously the government officals dont travel that road so they dont care but I really cant wait till its finished it is what it is...

SoupyNorman

ronoc wrote: »

Question for people doing this commute at rush hours.

How much does the 60kmh limit add to your journey time compared to before the road works begun?

The real issue is not the 60kph limit, it's the barriers i.e. no hard shoulder. Any hint of a breakdown, accident = absolute standstill.

When traffic is flowing, 60kph is about all you can do anyway with the volume. Personally, I feel like people are making the speed limit out to be this horrendous thing when it's not that bad.

When all lanes re-open, time savings wont be massive (3-5mins?) but the daily consistency of journey time will/should improve.