Father of dead teen: Society not developing mature drinking practices

Unknown Soldier

So I was reading this....

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/news/father-of-dead-teen-society-not-developing-mature-drinking-practices/

Heard it on newstalk this morning. The father was on.

All very sad but I couldn't help wondering were the responsibility of the parent(s) starts and stops. Surely if the parents en still good sensible drinking attitudes then by default it will be society doing so? Ala All parents?

I don't think it is fair to blame society. It is a cop out. Surely we are society?

Is it too easy to blame "society" for every thing?

AngryBollix

Tell us something we dont know

DB21

He has a point. We have a national drinking problem.

BBDBB

groups who could be to blame include

society
parents
teachers
media
advertising
tv
celebrities


the person themselves

no one, sometimes bad things happen to nice undeserving people

decisions

While he has a point is it not the parents responsibility to develop good drinking practices within the home.

chin_grin

Vicious circle really. Parents who weren't brought up right respecting alcohol, spawn little sh!ts that see their folks having a 'wee tipple' every night of the week and think to follow their example and so on.

But blaming society is an absolute cop out IMO.

Toby Take a Bow

BBDBB wrote: »

no one, sometimes bad things happen to nice undeserving people

The smiley in your sig makes that comment seem kind of threatening.

jd007

I blame everyone.

Dostoevsky

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

So I was reading this....

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/news/father-of-dead-teen-society-not-developing-mature-drinking-practices/

Heard it on newstalk this morning. The father was on.

All very sad but I couldn't help wondering were the responsibility of the parent(s) starts and stops. Surely if the parents en still good sensible drinking attitudes then by default it will be society doing so? Ala All parents?

I don't think it is fair to blame society. It is a cop out. Surely we are society?

Is it too easy to blame "society" for every thing?

I don't get that impression at all from this. Rather, alcohol abuse has way too much respect in Ireland, it's romanticised like no other product. These are societal values, not something a single family can change. As a society we are very immature in the position we give alcohol abuse and promotions in this state, and indeed across all of Ireland.

The current blasé attitude to alcohol abuse really, really needs to change. It will take incredible political courage to do this given the number of people employed in the alcohol promotion industry in Ireland. We who are aware of the unparalleled damage which alcohol abuse does to Irish society should stand behind proposals to improve societal attitudes towards alcohol abuse. At present, Irish society is at least 50 years behind science regarding the damage which alcohol abuse inflicts on society.

cml387

While 99.999% of us have managed to make it home on the beer scooter,there is the sad one who does fall off.
While I sympathise greatly with the parents,this strikes me as a doomed if understanable attempt to give some meaning to their son's death.

BBDBB

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

The smiley in your sig makes that comment seem kind of threatening.

no threat intended

but given the fact that nasty things happen you can either face the world with a smile or go home and hide

I choose to do the former

mathepac

BBDBB wrote: »

groups who could be to blame include

society
parents
teachers
media
advertising
tv
celebrities


the person themselves

no one, sometimes bad things happen to nice undeserving people

I take your point but the main group capable of influencing a young person is missing IMHO, that's the peer group who are capable of exerting massive pressure, for good as well as sometimes for bad. Despite any other group's effort, the influence of the peer group is often under-estimated or even ignored.

I'm not suggesting it's the case for this unfortunate family, I'm sure the young guy's peer-group is shattered as well as his family.

IMHO the peer-pressure issue makes absolute nonsense of the "Just say No" type campaigns against drink and drugs.

BBDBB

mathepac wrote: »

I take your point but the main group capable of influencing a young person is missing IMHO, that's the peer group who are capable of exerting massive pressure, for good as well as sometimes for bad. Despite any other group's effort, the influence of the peer group is often under-estimated or even ignored.

I'm not suggesting it's the case for this unfortunate family, I'm sure the young guy's peer-group is shattered as well as his family.

IMHO the peer-pressure issue makes absolute nonsense of the "Just say No" type campaigns against drink and drugs.

fair point, I wasnt seeking to do anything other than illustrate there is a wealth of possible causes and sometimes no cause at all

mikom

Dostoevsky wrote: »

I don't get that impression at all from this. Rather, alcohol abuse has way too much respect in Ireland, it's romanticised like no other product. These are societal values, not something a single family can change. As a society we are very immature in the position we give alcohol abuse and promotions in this state, and indeed across all of Ireland.

The current blasé attitude to alcohol abuse really, really needs to change. It will take incredible political courage to do this given the number of people employed in the alcohol promotion industry in Ireland. We who are aware of the unparalleled damage which alcohol abuse does to Irish society should stand behind proposals to improve societal attitudes towards alcohol abuse. At present, Irish society is at least 50 years behind science regarding the damage which alcohol abuse inflicts on society.

Smoke one spliff a week............ and you're a druggy.

Ten pints in a weekend, and one or two during the week............. and you're a lad who likes a drink.

I can't get my head around the values or the thinking of this country.
Successive governments and religion drove them and ran with them though.

My name is URL

The vast majority of people know how to, and do; enjoy alcohol responsibly. Why is society ever only blamed when one of those in the minority decide to take it too far and end up in a box?

It's not society's fault that you allowed peer pressure and the actions of others to influence you.

120_Minutes

My name is URL wrote: »

The vast majority of people know how to, and do; enjoy alcohol responsibly.

drive through anytown Ireland at nightclub chucking out time on a sat/sun morning and many would disagree.

44leto

A tragic story and a grieving father he has to make some sense of his suffering. Drink and problems with drink is as old as alcohol.

amacachi

120_Minutes wrote: »

drive through anytown Ireland at nightclub chucking out time on a sat/sun morning and many would disagree.

300 people all get kicked out of a club at once, half a dozen make some hassle, 150 head to a chippy, 120 head straight for taxis and the rest are ating the faces off each other. Always gonna be a couple knob-ends who **** it up and it's them you'll notice.

Freddie59

decisions wrote: »

While he has a point is it not the parents responsibility to develop good drinking practices within the home.

Then they'd be accused of forcing alcohol on adolescents.....

later12

chin_grin wrote: »

Vicious circle really. Parents who weren't brought up right respecting alcohol, spawn little sh!ts that see their folks having a 'wee tipple' every night of the week and think to follow their example and so on.

Is there something 'wrong' with having a drink every night? I know lots of people who would have a glass of wine or even a vodka and soda in the evenings who are perfectly capable of 'respecting alcohol'. I think that's a rather unfair generalisation you have made. The biggest problem with respect to society and alcohol abuse is binge drinking.

44leto wrote: »

A tragic story and a grieving father he has to make some sense of his suffering.

That's how I would read this as well.

They also persuaded the council to put a 'warning:steep drop' sign up beside the wall from which this young man fell to his death.

I hope for their sake this can all help them in their grieving, but realistically that sign is unlikely to save another life, and neither (unfortunately) is the father's opinions about society's problem with alcohol going to prevent any further alcohol related deaths or injuries.

Immaculate Pasta

Pffft pussy :cool:

My name is URL

120_Minutes wrote: »

drive through anytown Ireland at nightclub chucking out time on a sat/sun morning and many would disagree.

Well yeah, that's where you're most likely to see the said minority acting irresponsibly =p

MungBean

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

I don't think it is fair to blame society. It is a cop out. Surely we are society?

Is it too easy to blame "society" for every thing?

I think the whole "lets not blame society" thing is the real cop out. Society is everything, both the laws in regards to alcohol consumption and the attitude people have towards it. Its not just peer pressure or attitude, its everything in relation to alcohol and how a person grows to understand what it is and how its consumed.

amacachi

Anyway I massively overdo it now and then but it's my choice. It's not down to peer pressure, I drink more than anyone I know, it's not my parents, when I was growing up they'd go years at a time without drinking, it's because I enjoy it.

Dudess

Generally I don't agree with too much emphasis on societal responsibility (it's pure bollocks a lot of the time - lazily pointing the blame at easier targets than the actual source of blame) but in this case, I'd agree with it somewhat. Getting absolutely rat-arsed is completely normalised in Irish society - and virtually unquestioned, bar the occasional moment of reflection, such as in a discussion like this. A bit like I'm doing now. I'll still go out and get drunk this weekend though, so I'm helping prop up this culture.

Not sure teaching a kid sensible drinking habits in the home would make much difference either - going out with their mates in years to come has no relevance to a controlled environment like the home.

And it's not just the people who go really nuts on drink, trashing the place, getting into fights, that have a lack of respect for alcohol. It's a drinker who gets pissed every week to the point that they have gaps in the memory and might be sick and have an awful hangover, but otherwise don't behave in a destructive manner. But as I said, I'd fit into the latter category a lot of the time so I'm not going to be a hypocrite about it.

Fighting Irish

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

So I was reading this....

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/news/father-of-dead-teen-society-not-developing-mature-drinking-practices/

Heard it on newstalk this morning. The father was on.

All very sad but I couldn't help wondering were the responsibility of the parent(s) starts and stops. Surely if the parents en still good sensible drinking attitudes then by default it will be society doing so? Ala All parents?

I don't think it is fair to blame society. It is a cop out. Surely we are society?

Is it too easy to blame "society" for every thing?

Agree with you, but then again all pubs/clubs being closed at 2am is societies fault, and we all know that having a time limit on alcohol only leads to bad situations

So in a way he's right, but it's his own fault as well

DEFTLEFTHAND

Sounds like a tragic accident really that was obviously influenced by the condition he was in. There is a big drinking culture here for sure but unfortunately not everybody is built to handle vast quantities of alcohol. When I was in college there was plenty of posers who played the hard drinker but on a night out they'd fold up like an accordion after 7 or 8 pints and would be looking for the bed or the toilet bowel. Everyone knows their body's limitations and tolerance levels, leave the hard living to those who can handle it folks.

laoch na mona

anyone who dies or has an accident because of drink the fault is theres not society or the barman or anyone else

lividduck

Dostoevsky wrote: »

I don't get that impression at all from this. Rather, alcohol abuse has way too much respect in Ireland, it's romanticised like no other product. These are societal values, not something a single family can change. As a society we are very immature in the position we give alcohol abuse and promotions in this state, and indeed across all of Ireland.

The current blasé attitude to alcohol abuse really, really needs to change. It will take incredible political courage to do this given the number of people employed in the alcohol promotion industry in Ireland. We who are aware of the unparalleled damage which alcohol abuse does to Irish society should stand behind proposals to improve societal attitudes towards alcohol abuse. At present, Irish society is at least 50 years behind science regarding the damage which alcohol abuse inflicts on society.

The emboldened passage says it all!

El Weirdo

Heard this guy on the radio this morning. Whenever it was suggested that alcohol was a contributory factor in his son's tragic death, he was having none of it.

I'm paraphrasing, but it went something like this: "Oh no, sure he only had a couple of drinks - about 6 or 7. Whatever would be normal for a young lad on a night out. Sure he left the nightclub at 1am as he had lectures in the morning."

Sorry for the guy, but he seems to be complaining about people having an attitude to alcohol that is pretty similar to his own.