price of direct labour 2012

Nryan82

Ohh..ok muffler..thanks for lettin me know..;)

coastcooler

I've had quotes to get a builder to build a 2,500sq ft house, to my horror quotes between 230-280. This is huge price or am i wrong, im open to been corrected on this. Based In midlands, think I will have go direct labour even do I'm far out knowing anything bout the build process 8-(

Any ideas or suggestions I'm looking for people's opinions etc on going direct or with builder!!

fealeranger

coastcooler wrote: »

I've had quotes to get a builder to build a 2,500sq ft house, to my horror quotes between 230-280. This is huge price or am i wrong, im open to been corrected on this. Based In midlands, think I will have go direct labour even do I'm far out knowing anything bout the build process 8-(

Any ideas or suggestions I'm looking for people's opinions etc on going direct or with builder!!

I would be going the direct labour route if I were you. Even at the cheapest quote you have posted here €230000 it is costing €92/sqft:eek:. Even if that is fully furnished that is crazy. That quote would be expensive in the boom time. A builder finish quote was around €65 over a year ago, could be less now. Material is gone up in price especially insulation due to oil prices. I went direct labour and it is running around €55/sqft all in. It might deviate up €1-3 extra if we decide to go for a higher finish standard as in more expensive doors,tiles, timber flooring and furniture but we have a good finish in the €50 as it stands. If you get a builder at them prices mentioned in your first post you would be mad.

coastcooler

It's hard to know, been told to get it up 2 current build regulations triple glaz window 2 north facing of house, more spec on insulation as my designer has 6 different roofs on it makes it an expensive design!! With council they don't want one chunk of house they want it broken up into parts e.g. I've my kitchen and utility as sgle storey, then also master b/r ensuite robe and sitting room as another sgle storey part. Then back house as builder put it quite lot of glazing.

Does any1 know out there if builders materials are cheaper anywhere else in world. And cud be shipped 2 Ireland or another thing I've my head if you got northern quotes as builder and direct labour is this cheaper??

Just wondering as I'm single applicant have purchase site also so funds is limited. Was hoping get house built part finished for 200k or fully finished for that money.

kkelliher

fealeranger wrote: »

I would be going the direct labour route if I were you. Even at the cheapest quote you have posted here €230000 it is costing €92/sqft:eek:. Even if that is fully furnished that is crazy. That quote would be expensive in the boom time. A builder finish quote was around €65 over a year ago, could be less now. Material is gone up in price especially insulation due to oil prices. I went direct labour and it is running around €55/sqft all in. It might deviate up €1-3 extra if we decide to go for a higher finish standard as in more expensive doors,tiles, timber flooring and furniture but we have a good finish in the €50 as it stands. If you get a builder at them prices mentioned in your first post you would be mad.

At €55/sqft you must have alot of free labour? As it is sinply not possible to be in this range for a standard house if everything is included in the cost. I note that all of these discussions are conpletly off the wall on the basis that no comparison is been made to specification yet everyone is simply comapring the bottom line prices.... Its like comparing how much money you make with your friends without any idea of what jobs you each have or hours you work.

The only way to compare the cost of contract v self build (and to be fair to any builder saving money with free labour from yourself/friends should be noted) is by working up a schedule / boq and having it priced like with like on the same specification. I have yet to actually meet a self builder who saved money (again taking out items with free work) when you compare all the costs. Most self builders, self build on the basis of hearsay and only when they are finished and have paid for everything realise the true extent of the process. Self building involves substantial time, emotion and hasstle for any individual not aware of the process

You also need to hire the right peole and should always have professional assistance ( which does cost money to provide properly despite some of the resiculous posts earlier on this forum)

Best of luck to you all with your projects and everyone hire a quantity surveyor (😇)

fealeranger

kkelliher wrote: »

At €55/sqft you must have alot of free labour? As it is sinply not possible to be in this range for a standard house if everything is included in the cost. I note that all of these discussions are conpletly off the wall on the basis that no comparison is been made to specification yet everyone is simply comapring the bottom line prices.... Its like comparing how much money you make with your friends without any idea of what jobs you each have or hours you work.

The only way to compare the cost of contract v self build (and to be fair to any builder saving money with free labour from yourself/friends should be noted) is by working up a schedule / boq and having it priced like with like on the same specification. I have yet to actually meet a self builder who saved money (again taking out items with free work) when you compare all the costs. Most self builders, self build on the basis of hearsay and only when they are finished and have paid for everything realise the true extent of the process. Self building involves substantial time, emotion and hasstle for any individual not aware of the process

You also need to hire the right peole and should always have professional assistance ( which does cost money to provide properly despite some of the resiculous posts earlier on this forum)

Best of luck to you all with your projects and everyone hire a quantity surveyor (😇)

I paid for all the labour. The labour is the cheapest part of the house. I didn't get anything free in this house only the site and I have factored that into €55/sqft. The house will not be far off passive standard when it is finished. Some people think because they pay a load of money they get the best product. That is not the case. Design can influence the price but a smart engineer/architect will advise people on these points. If you venture away from rectangular/square shapes and start inserting big corner windows you will need steel reinforcement and special windows and that will add great cost to a build. A cut roof will make labour higher. A small bit of thought and compromise will get a good value house. Also council will be a factor in the price. Some want small windows for traditional look and more want large windows to provide solar gain for heating. The biggest waste of money I spent so far was for the quantity surveyor but it was not too expensive as I only got the BOQ which has not being correct for any stage so far. It was over calculated by at least 10% for most stages. Most guys who are pricing will tell you what quantity you need for the job once you have agreed the labour price with them. You can always calculate the quantity yourself.

kkelliher

fealeranger wrote: »

I paid for all the labour. The labour is the cheapest part of the house. I didn't get anything free in this house only the site and I have factored that into €55/sqft. The house will not be far off passive standard when it is finished. Some people think because they pay a load of money they get the best product. That is not the case. Design can influence the price but a smart engineer/architect will advise people on these points. If you venture away from rectangular/square shapes and start inserting big corner windows you will need steel reinforcement and special windows and that will add great cost to a build. A cut roof will make labour higher. A small bit of thought and compromise will get a good value house. Also council will be a factor in the price. Some want small windows for traditional look and more want large windows to provide solar gain for heating. The biggest waste of money I spent so far was for the quantity surveyor but it was not too expensive as I only got the BOQ which has not being correct for any stage so far. It was over calculated by at least 10% for most stages. Most guys who are pricing will tell you what quantity you need for the job once you have agreed the labour price with them. You can always calculate the quantity yourself.

So the €55 sqft also includes the site cost?

coastcooler

Did anyone ever hear of anyone shipping material from outside of Ireland 2 build their house because its cheaper. or getting northern builders?

kkelliher

coastcooler wrote: »

Did anyone ever hear of anyone shipping material from outside of Ireland 2 build their house because its cheaper. or getting northern builders?

It generally does not work out unless you have a massive quantity due to the cost of transport. On some items it will be it needs to be worth the hasstle. Some materials fluctuate from north to south and you will find that it various as to where is cheaper.

The northern builders are no different than southern ones in that they can be hit and miss and are not always the cheapest.

fealeranger

kkelliher wrote: »

So the €55 sqft also includes the site cost?

Yeah. All in for €55.

fealeranger

coastcooler wrote: »

Did anyone ever hear of anyone shipping material from outside of Ireland 2 build their house because its cheaper. or getting northern builders?

I looked into this and it can be done but you would have to be very exact with quantities and exceptional at planning. You would have to get all the materials in the one place as I doubt the truck driver will spend a day or 2 driving shop to shop loading up. You could look into renting a container and loading into it and then delivering it to Ireland. The delivery is charged per KM. I priced a container from Poland and it was almost €2500 over a year ago. Shipping would be cheaper but did not look into this too much. You might still workout cheaper than buying here but time is required to look around and purchase all the material.

Going Demented

Quotes that came in for me were pretty similar from each builder.
1750sq ft bulgalow.
168000 which doesn't include landscaping, kitchen, painting.

kkelliher

fealeranger wrote: »

Yeah. All in for €55.

by a substantial amount and irrespective of specification you are quoting possibly the lowest cost for a build I have ever heard.

fealeranger

kkelliher wrote: »

by a substantial amount and irrespective of specification you are quoting possibly the lowest cost for a build I have ever heard.

This is not a quote. This is an actual live build. I'm 2/3 of the way there and actually under my budget so far. I will be doing the lawns myself as I have the tools at my disposal but there you go. I let the builders do their job while I argued like a demon with builder providers to keep material priced down. It has paid off as I have saved nearly €9,000 so far by placing quote against quote and letting them beat each other down. The way they see it is, it's better to have a small profit than to have none at all, and they are still making profit. That saved money will sort out council fees, ESB connection and go a long ways to sinking a well for me. Money is hard earned so I am not willing to part with it so easily.

john_cappa

fealeranger wrote: »

This is not a quote. This is an actual live build. I'm 2/3 of the way there and actually under my budget so far. I will be doing the lawns myself as I have the tools at my disposal but there you go. I let the builders do their job while I argued like a demon with builder providers to keep material priced down. It has paid off as I have saved nearly €9,000 so far by placing quote against quote and letting them beat each other down. The way they see it is, it's better to have a small profit than to have none at all, and they are still making profit. That saved money will sort out council fees, ESB connection and go a long ways to sinking a well for me. Money is hard earned so I am not willing to part with it so easily.

So is it 55 to date with 2/3 of scheduled work complete? or 55 what you expect the final cost to be per foot?

fealeranger

john_cappa wrote: »

So is it 55 to date with 2/3 of scheduled work complete? or 55 what you expect the final cost to be per foot?

€55 is the final price. I am an target to achieve this.

john_cappa

fealeranger wrote: »

€55 is the final price. I am an target to achieve this.

Even if it was the other way it is still almost unbelievable!

kkelliher

fealeranger wrote: »

This is not a quote.

I said figure quoted as in what you had stated not "quote" as in estimate received

fealeranger

kkelliher wrote: »

I said figure quoted as in what you had stated not "quote" as in estimate received

Sorry:o. Misunderstood the post.

fealeranger

john_cappa wrote: »

Even if it was the other way it is still almost unbelievable!

It is fairly impressive. When I researched all this at the start I thought the direct labour route would crucify my but I gathered myself together and planned out a schedule(which is 6 weeks behind time but on target price-wise). I let the builders do their work, Engineer checks it and lets them know if adjustments are needed and I bargain for the material. I did spend plenty time on the phone but it has eased off thank god. It should be finished around May/June so provided no disaster pops up it should be fine. Although people do say it is the finishing that will soak up the money so time will tell.

Matt406

fealeranger wrote: »

It is fairly impressive. When I researched all this at the start I thought the direct labour route would crucify my but I gathered myself together and planned out a schedule(which is 6 weeks behind time but on target price-wise). I let the builders do their work, Engineer checks it and lets them know if adjustments are needed and I bargain for the material. I did spend plenty time on the phone but it has eased off thank god. It should be finished around May/June so provided no disaster pops up it should be fine. Although people do say it is the finishing that will soak up the money so time will tell.

Hi Fealeranger,

Any chance that you could PM me as i've just started a build and i'd be interested in knowing what you paid for different materials. Just to get an idea if i'm on the right track? Thanks

coastcooler

id be same Mat, definitely interested in knowing how much it would cost, as at 55 sq ft i can afford but nearly doubling price ive been getting 95 sq ft i just cant afford so il be buying a site not affording 2 put house on it. Im def interested in knowing how direct labour route goes price wise!!

so Fealeranger if you have any direction for me on it as well would be very greatful, PM if you can:)!!

fealeranger

There is no need for a PM. Just do what I previously stated in one of my posts earlier "I let the builders do their job while I argued like a demon with builder providers to keep material priced down. It has paid off as I have saved nearly €9,000 so far by placing quote against quote and letting them beat each other down." This is the best way get the price down. Make a list with the quantity needed, Area needed to cover as some products come in diffirent sized packets especially insulation. Make sure each provider is pricing like with like as some sneaky providers put in a cheaper altenative to what you want and some leave out things. I found this with the roof list as some felt is cheaper than others. Get the prices and start bargaining them down. The first trial of this will be the roof. Roof carpenter usually gives you the list. If you do this list and price for every stage you will save a fortune. You will find the big named providers will be the most competitive as they buy more in bulk than the smaller provider.

john_cappa

A nine thousand saving is great but even if you added an extra 9g to your price then your price is still extremely low!!

kkelliher

fealeranger wrote: »

There is no need for a PM. Just do what I previously stated in one of my posts earlier "I let the builders do their job while I argued like a demon with builder providers to keep material priced down. It has paid off as I have saved nearly €9,000 so far by placing quote against quote and letting them beat each other down." This is the best way get the price down. Make a list with the quantity needed, Area needed to cover as some products come in diffirent sized packets especially insulation. Make sure each provider is pricing like with like as some sneaky providers put in a cheaper altenative to what you want and some leave out things. I found this with the roof list as some felt is cheaper than others. Get the prices and start bargaining them down. The first trial of this will be the roof. Roof carpenter usually gives you the list. If you do this list and price for every stage you will save a fortune. You will find the big named providers will be the most competitive as they buy more in bulk than the smaller provider.

Everything your saying makes complete sense but instill fail to see how you are in theory halfing the standard cost of building? I appreciate you are at the early part of your build and i do hope it works out as you have planned but i really do think you have missed or miscalculated something.

fealeranger

kkelliher wrote: »

Everything your saying makes complete sense but instill fail to see how you are in theory halfing the standard cost of building? I appreciate you are at the early part of your build and i do hope it works out as you have planned but i really do think you have missed or miscalculated something.

All i have left to do is tiling, Second fix electric. Plumbing, Wooden floors, doors, skirting and archatrive, furnishing. All these are in included in my €55. These would really want to go out of control to be bringing up the cost to €90+/ftsq. I would nearly want to put gold handles on the doors to bring it up that much:rolleyes:. These big prices should be ancient history at this stage and people even thinking of putting themslves into that amount of debt are nuts. By the time the banks are finished putting up intrest rates and inflation stops rising I think I will be in an ok position.

"A nine thousand saving is great but even if you added an extra 9g to your price then your price is still extremely low!!"

If you say so. Is it not better in my pocket than somebody else. €9000 borrowed is like €12,000 paid back at current lower rates. Throw away your money if you like.

Matt406

fealeranger wrote: »

All i have left to do is tiling, Second fix electric. Plumbing, Wooden floors, doors, skirting and archatrive, furnishing. All these are in included in my €55. These would really want to go out of control to be bringing up the cost to €90+/ftsq. I would nearly want to put gold handles on the doors to bring it up that much:rolleyes:. These big prices should be ancient history at this stage and people even thinking of putting themslves into that amount of debt are nuts. By the time the banks are finished putting up intrest rates and inflation stops rising I think I will be in an ok position.

"A nine thousand saving is great but even if you added an extra 9g to your price then your price is still extremely low!!"

If you say so. Is it not better in my pocket than somebody else. €9000 borrowed is like €12,000 paid back at current lower rates. Throw away your money if you like.

Hi Fealeranger,

I’m doing exactly what you are saying and I think I’ll comein at about €55ftsq to get it to builders finish. I can’t understand how youare heading for a fully completed house for that figure – which includes thecost of the site!! I’ve also had a full bill of quantities completed by a QSand that figure is coming in slightly over €56ftsq to builders finish. I guessit comes down to the spec and finish of the house – insulation, quality ofmaterials used, etc. Thanks for sharingyour experience.

fealeranger

My spec is good. Floor has 150mm, perimeter wall 300mm pumped cavity, Double glazed future-proof windows, 150mm Metac on the roof, 300mm Earthwool on all the flats, 200mm earth wool in ceiling of ground floor and 100mm Earth wool in stud partition and 162mm insulated slab on the upstairs envelope with air-tightness on doors and windows. Sound alright? Maybe my calculations are wrong but I doubt it. There is not a hope in hell I could be €45/ftsq out in my calculations:rolleyes:.

selfbuil231

Hi folks. I am just in the process of deciding on a self build and whether Direct Labor or Contractor will be the correct route. Are massive savings to be made on direct labor?

Our intentions are to build a 3000 square foot house. Not to complete all rooms just living, kitchen and bedroom. the rest just builders finish.

We have also looked at a complete service provider from Offaly who completes planning and septic tanks test on ground conditions, but we feel that as this house will be "Our" home that we should be more involved.

We are in the North West and have a site.

novicee

First time posting on here and am almost done with a direct labour / self build, so hopefully this will help some decide which way to go with building.
246sq/m storey and a hallf house, 2 bedrooms with ensuites and walk in's up stairs with a decent landing area, 2 front [ north facing bedrooms] kitchen/dining, sitting room, utility,sunrrom and washroom down stairs.
and a 32 sq/m garage with 1 big room upstairs.
The costs thus far have been-
Architect / Planning app etc €2250
Council charge €5644
Water perc test / get holes dug 650
Ground work [ clearance, pour/float finish foundation €20,000
Block laying + materials €14,000
Drill well / water pump €3,800
Plastering inside and out of house and garage €14,500
Facia and Soffit €2400
Plumbing 23,500 [ 4 zoned heating system, 18 rads,back boiler+buffer boiler, 3 solar panels, install stove,ofch..]
Electrics €8000
Carpentry 1st fix and roof [slate]+ materials €26000
Stone Mason [ 10sq/m at the front door and 10sq/m around stove + Materials €2,000,
Engineer is €200 a visit, 6 visits
Esb €1807
tiler €1500, tiles + materials 1800 [ 82 sq yards of tiling on floor and 22sq yards of wall tiles]
haven't priced/bought 2nd fix carpentry like doors,skirting.architrave etc yet..
Spent close on €3000 on insulation for joists/attic/side attic/garage etc
and €1500 to pump the cavity of the house.
thats all labour and material costs i can think of, as regards what i did myself, took time off work and did the labouring for the 2 block layers, which was about 3 weeks, took a week off to bring the slates up for roofing and also did the slabbing myself, had 8 tree's that needed to be cut down/out to let the solar panels see the day light, so that took the guts of another week to cut down/chop up and burn the limbs etc....
I wouldn;t have been a raw recruit to the building as my dad would have been in the building game till he retired in 2006, and had used all of the tradesmen i used for my build, like a previous poster said, i gave all material requests to 3 builders providers and had accounts in all 3 and went back and forth to get the best price, you might also notice that all my prices are in either hundreds or 50's...thats because i refused to pay the odd money over the 50 or 00...
i hope this is of some help to people, i most likely have forgotten or been sketchy with some details so if anyone has any queestion on the above just ask.