price of direct labour 2012

muffler

Good post novicee and well done.

Thats the type of info we like to see posted here.

novicee

Forgot €7,750 for treble glazing, €1300 for painter and paint,stove was €1600, and there copious other small things like chimney pots, meter boxes, got 'off' windows for the garage for about €1,000 for 3 windows and a pvc door, the roiller garage door was €525 [ female sales person was the toughest person i dealt with btw, not a dime off would she give me !]...theres also 2 loads of sand [ 5 tonne] which cost about €300 for the both loads.
Kitchen €4,000, and stairs €3,800.
[ Not sure if i'm allowed where i bought stuff from reading these pages previously, so rather than get banned on my 1st day i'll keep stum !]
Theres is so many small jobs you don't account for, take tomorrow, i'm collecting the tiles, and theres something like 80 odd boxes of tiles, and the guy in the shop reckoned that my car trailer won't manage the lot, so i have to get a lend of a double axle trailer to bring them, thats a cost to some people.
But i got quoted between €171,000 and €190,000 for a contractor to do the lot, builders finish....where i'm hoping to have it decked out oak veneer skirts and arc, 8 oak doors and 6 red deal doors for about €160,000.
I have no doubt i could have the labour cheaper, but i went by the trademen and how well i knew then, rather than the cheapest price, i didn't see the point getting a QS, any 1/2 decent tradesman would tell you how much of everything he'll need....the one thing i would advice is
don't be in a hurry, if you want everything done yesterday your going to have hassles and panic attacks....

fealeranger

Very well done. You are woking out better than myself for prices but you have saved on the slabbing and labour in many areas of the build as you laboured yourself. Did you do any airtight spec in any part of the house? I like the price for the tiles, I hope mine will come in as good. The quotes I got were similar for my build and it was about 15sqm smaller. Your price per ftsq wil be incredible:eek:, even better than my own. Direct labour is the way to go folks. Your plumbing was very high, did this cover the Bio-unit in the quote?

kkelliher

novicee wrote: »

Forgot €7,750 for treble glazing, €1300 for painter and paint,stove was €1600, and there copious other small things like chimney pots, meter boxes, got 'off' windows for the garage for about €1,000 for 3 windows and a pvc door, the roiller garage door was €525 [ female sales person was the toughest person i dealt with btw, not a dime off would she give me !]...theres also 2 loads of sand [ 5 tonne] which cost about €300 for the both loads.
Kitchen €4,000, and stairs €3,800.
[ Not sure if i'm allowed where i bought stuff from reading these pages previously, so rather than get banned on my 1st day i'll keep stum !]
Theres is so many small jobs you don't account for, take tomorrow, i'm collecting the tiles, and theres something like 80 odd boxes of tiles, and the guy in the shop reckoned that my car trailer won't manage the lot, so i have to get a lend of a double axle trailer to bring them, thats a cost to some people.
But i got quoted between €171,000 and €190,000 for a contractor to do the lot, builders finish....where i'm hoping to have it decked out oak veneer skirts and arc, 8 oak doors and 6 red deal doors for about €160,000.
I have no doubt i could have the labour cheaper, but i went by the trademen and how well i knew then, rather than the cheapest price, i didn't see the point getting a QS, any 1/2 decent tradesman would tell you how much of everything he'll need....the one thing i would advice is
don't be in a hurry, if you want everything done yesterday your going to have hassles and panic attacks....

Hope you enoyed the process and ended up with the right dream.

a couple of quick questions if you dont mind:

painting all in for your size house at €1300 appears extreamly low, was this a friend?

your external glazing figure is also extreamly low.How many windows and what type of material are you using

Does you figures include VAT or is it generally cash

What floor have you installed at FF and where is this included in your costs (assume carpentry figure)

is there any boundary walls, fences etc included

Any entrance, gates, piers, walls etc

Is the footpaths and driveway included?

is it correct to state your figures exclude floor finishes outside of tiles?

kkelliher

fealeranger wrote: »

Very well done. You are woking out better than myself for prices but you have saved on the slabbing and labour in many areas of the build as you laboured yourself. Did you do any airtight spec in any part of the house? I like the price for the tiles, I hope mine will come in as good. The quotes I got were similar for my build and it was about 15sqm smaller. Your price per ftsq wil be incredible:eek:, even better than my own. Direct labour is the way to go folks. Your plumbing was very high, did this cover the Bio-unit in the quote?

his per sqft is working out higher than yours already and he is not including the site in his figures.

At €160,000 for 246m2 (2648 sq ft) that works out at €60.42 per square foot. you stated all in you were at €55 and he has also stated that he has supplied his own free labour on a number of items. He may also have not included some others as per a question I have already posted. Are you sure you have not miscalculated your sq ft costs?

archtech

It would be useful if those quoting prices would advise which Part L (2008 or 2011) they have to comply with and also advise of their calculated CPC & EPC in terms of achieving compliance with Part L. It is relatively easy to achieve a good BER rating, however to achieve compliance with Part L of the building regulations can be another storey. Certified Passive Houses are known not to achieve compliance without having to include additional systems.

fealeranger

kkelliher wrote: »

his per sqft is working out higher than yours already and he is not including the site in his figures.

At €160,000 for 246m2 (2648 sq ft) that works out at €60.42 per square foot. you stated all in you were at €55 and he has also stated that he has supplied his own free labour on a number of items. He may also have not included some others as per a question I have already posted. Are you sure you have not miscalculated your sq ft costs?

Maybe I miscalculated his. I never really looked thought about it just looked at the total:o. I am doing better so:). I should have it all done for €170,000 excluding lawn and border walls/fence and drive way. Plenty time to be doing them bits over the next year or 2. It all helps to keep the mortage payment low.

novicee

kkelliher wrote: »

Hope you enoyed the process and ended up with the right dream.

a couple of quick questions if you dont mind:

painting all in for your size house at €1300 appears extreamly low, was this a friend?

your external glazing figure is also extreamly low.How many windows and what type of material are you using

Does you figures include VAT or is it generally cash

What floor have you installed at FF and where is this included in your costs (assume carpentry figure)

is there any boundary walls, fences etc included

Any entrance, gates, piers, walls etc

Is the footpaths and driveway included?

is it correct to state your figures exclude floor finishes outside of tiles?

Ya, buddy i play sport with done the painting, €500 for the paint [ he spray painted the 1st coat and the ceilings that also cost €500....] and he reckons he'll touch it all up and apply filler etc where required for 'about' €300, little more than 2 days work anyway he said.
12 windows,2 sets of french doors, and a pvc front and back door,the guy in the window company gave me a good deal on the condition i ordered and paid for them before the builders holidays last July, it was built but not roofed at that stage, so roofing was alot more careful and likely slower as a result which i probably paid for in the carpenters roofing bill !
Obviously all materials included VAT, and most of my tradesmen didn't mention VAT when quoting prices, so i'd have to assume they didn;t VAT me, but i wasn't going asking, if ya don't like the probable answer don;t ask the question !?
No site cost [ except inheritance tax]...and only need for a post and rail fence between mine and the house next door as that's mine aswell and a family member is renting that from me.
No entrance,gate/walls etc included in figures, the foundations for them will get dug when the paths are being poured and i'll build the walls myself as i'm going to put stone work on them aswell [ will hide my shabby wall building !]...
Correct again....no timber flooring included in figures, i'm negotiating with a building contractor in NAMA to buy semi solid oak flooring off him/them at somewhere between 40 and 50% of their cost as he won't be using them in a hurry ....and i'll stick down laminate in the bedrooms myself which obviously i'll put down myself.
The timber on 1st floor was included in the caprentry figure, 3/4' ply if thats what your asking ?
Sorry for the delay, looking at pc/laptop 50 hours a week, try my best to keep away from it at the w.end ! that, and insultaing/screwing down the floor up stairs on the garage at week-end kept me occupied !

kkelliher

novicee wrote: »

Ya, buddy i play sport with done the painting, €500 for the paint [ he spray painted the 1st coat and the ceilings that also cost €500....] and he reckons he'll touch it all up and apply filler etc where required for 'about' €300, little more than 2 days work anyway he said.
12 windows,2 sets of french doors, and a pvc front and back door,the guy in the window company gave me a good deal on the condition i ordered and paid for them before the builders holidays last July, it was built but not roofed at that stage, so roofing was alot more careful and likely slower as a result which i probably paid for in the carpenters roofing bill !
Obviously all materials included VAT, and most of my tradesmen didn't mention VAT when quoting prices, so i'd have to assume they didn;t VAT me, but i wasn't going asking, if ya don't like the probable answer don;t ask the question !?
No site cost [ except inheritance tax]...and only need for a post and rail fence between mine and the house next door as that's mine aswell and a family member is renting that from me.
No entrance,gate/walls etc included in figures, the foundations for them will get dug when the paths are being poured and i'll build the walls myself as i'm going to put stone work on them aswell [ will hide my shabby wall building !]...
Correct again....no timber flooring included in figures, i'm negotiating with a building contractor in NAMA to buy semi solid oak flooring off him/them at somewhere between 40 and 50% of their cost as he won't be using them in a hurry ....and i'll stick down laminate in the bedrooms myself which obviously i'll put down myself.
The timber on 1st floor was included in the caprentry figure, 3/4' ply if thats what your asking ?
Sorry for the delay, looking at pc/laptop 50 hours a week, try my best to keep away from it at the w.end ! that, and insultaing/screwing down the floor up stairs on the garage at week-end kept me occupied !

Appreciate the post thanks.

It shows the costs than need to be added to the overall figures in order to give a true final costing. It also confirms that the prices quoted do not include floor finishes etc to date and therefore this would need to be included.

There are alot of posts with costs per ft2 at low levels and everyone needs to take account of the detail of each post. In this instance the poster has been able to carry out alot of work himself which is reflected in his bottom line costs but others who will need to contract all of this work should note they will have to allow in their costs for same.

coastcooler

Does anyone know if you need a set of plans called construction drawings in order to get a house built by a builder so they know exactly what to do and use where in the build material wise?

Any opinions are greatly welcomed. Think I have been quoted couple grand for this, on top of ordinary plans cost me over 3k as it is.

Then is it wise for your engineer to over see the build whether your going direct labour or with a builder? Any views again good and bad are welcomed!!

archtech

coastcooler wrote: »

Does anyone know if you need a set of plans called construction drawings in order to get a house built by a builder so they know exactly what to do and use where in the build material wise?

Any opinions are greatly welcomed. Think I have been quoted couple grand for this, on top of ordinary plans cost me over 3k as it is.

Then is it wise for your engineer to over see the build whether your going direct labour or with a builder? Any views again good and bad are welcomed!!

I would certainly recommend you get a set of construction drawings and specification. a bill of quantities could also be of assistance in pricing the job ordering materials if you go the direct labour route. Without a set of construction drawings / documents how are you going to tender the project and ensure you are comparing prices like for like ?
Apart from using construction documents for pricing, construction documentation is or should be used to demonstrate how one is going to achieve compliance with building regulations.
Can I ask how do you know the building will be built correctly if you don't engage someone to oversee the works?

fealeranger

The engineer overseeing the house build is responsible for drawing up construction drawings. He will check the work and he will sign off on the stage payments for the bank once the builders are sticking to regulations and doing the job properly.

archtech

fealeranger wrote: »

The engineer overseeing the house build is responsible for drawing up construction drawings. He will check the work and he will sign off on the stage payments for the bank once the builders are sticking to regulations and doing the job properly.

It depends on what services you agree with the engineer/other professional. Many people only engage the services of a professional to look after things in terms of certifying works for the mortage draw down. 4-6 site visits during the course of a build isn't going to be able to check everything. This type of practice is one of the reasons why we have such poor building standards here.

fealeranger

archtech wrote: »

It depends on what services you agree with the engineer/other professional. Many people only engage the services of a professional to look after things in terms of certifying works for the mortage draw down. 4-6 site visits during the course of a build isn't going to be able to check everything. This type of practice is one of the reasons why we have such poor building standards here.

That is a good point. You need to get responsible people with good references involved in this build. A little caution to lads coming in too cheap for labour prices is something to watch out for. You will get what you pay for here. The engineer should not be signing off on the next stage payments if the work is not carried out properly, this is what you pay him for. Regulations of the build will dictate what is acceptable or not. Come to an agreement with the engineer about the site visits that if there is an issue he will come and sort it out. If you have good honest builders this will not be a problem. Most of them are good to deal with. If you have a guy looking for extra money for extra visits don't get him, try a different guy. At the same time don't plague him to death calling him every day:D:).

sydthebeat

fealeranger wrote: »

.......... Come to an agreement with the engineer about the site visits that if there is an issue he will come and sort it out.

fealeranger wrote: »

If you have a guy looking for extra money for extra visits don't get him, try a different guy.

how do you marry these two statements together?

do you expect the engineer to give up his working time for free???

fealeranger

The engineer i spoke to said he will do X amount of visits for the price quoted. I just agreed with the engineer that there might be some extra visits if there are issues as this was a self build and he is needed to rectify a problem or a query and he said that will be fine once he is not called all the time. I don't expect anybody to work for free. Nothing wrong with asking for a request like this if the engineer is willing to agree to it. If he had refused I would be taking my business to an engineer that would agree to this. It was not an outrageous request in my view.

sydthebeat

fealeranger wrote: »

The engineer i spoke to said he will do X amount of visits for the price quoted. I just agreed with the engineer that there might be some extra visits if there are issues as this was a self build and he is needed to rectify a problem or a query and he said that will be fine once he is not called all the time. I don't expect anybody to work for free. Nothing wrong with asking for a request like this if the engineer is willing to agree to it. If he had refused I would be taking my business to an engineer that would agree to this. It was not an outrageous request in my view.

once its agreed beforehand, then of course its fine...

but, like a lot of your posts, you failed to include very pertinent information which causes your advice to be read as something else entirely.

archtech

fealeranger wrote: »

The engineer i spoke to said he will do X amount of visits for the price quoted. I just agreed with the engineer that there might be some extra visits if there are issues as this was a self build and he is needed to rectify a problem or a query and he said that will be fine once he is not called all the time. I don't expect anybody to work for free. Nothing wrong with asking for a request like this if the engineer is willing to agree to it. If he had refused I would be taking my business to an engineer that would agree to this. It was not an outrageous request in my view.

Obviously the fee agreed was fair to both parties so, if s/he was happy to do an extra site visit or two or provide some additional consultancy advice.

fealeranger

sydthebeat wrote: »

once its agreed beforehand, then of course its fine...

but, like a lot of your posts, you failed to include very pertinent information which causes your advice to be read as something else entirely.

Maybe so but my posts are for information purposes only. Like I have said I am giving examples of experiences. I'm not going to back up each and every post I put on here either. Like I said in another thread if people don't like what I post they can choose to ignore it. I'm easy either way:):cool:.

muffler

fealeranger wrote: »

Like I said in another thread if people don't like what I post they can choose to ignore it.

Sorry, but its not that simple as you can be asked to clarify or even back up comments you make. Let me explain.

This is a discussion forum and that is exactly what we are all doing. Some forums and some threads just run with posts filled with peoples "opinions" and to a certain degree that is the case here in this forum but is dependent on the topic. But the Construction and Planning forum and all it's sub forums are very much "matter of fact" type forums insofar as most of the posts will be factual. It has to be that way as we mostly engage in real life issues which is the construction and planning topics.

If I could use an example to illustrate. In response to a query from another poster someone posts something along the lines of...."Ah sure you have 5 prices now for the same product/service so just pick the cheapest and you cant go wrong" That is so vague and lacks any evidence as to why the person should run with the cheapest other than the fact it's just that, the cheapest. A lot of factors have to be considered before making a final decision on the product/service. Take insulation boards for example. Their insulating properties are different yet they are the same size so its very unfair to suggest that the cheapest would be the best unless of course the evidence is provided to back up the claim.

In light of the above I hope you see why your posts/comments have been challenged. Its nothing personal and the guys are basically trying to obtain your thoughts and reasoning behind some of your posts.

fealeranger

muffler wrote: »

Sorry, but its not that simple as you can be asked to clarify or even back up comments you make. Let me explain.

This is a discussion forum and that is exactly what we are all doing. Some forums and some threads just run with posts filled with peoples "opinions" and to a certain degree that is the case here in this forum but is dependent on the topic. But the Construction and Planning forum and all it's sub forums are very much "matter of fact" type forums insofar as most of the posts will be factual. It has to be that way as we mostly engage in real life issues which is the construction and planning topics.

If I could use an example to illustrate. In response to a query from another poster someone posts something along the lines of...."Ah sure you have 5 prices now for the same product/service so just pick the cheapest and you cant go wrong" That is so vague and lacks any evidence as to why the person should run with the cheapest other than the fact it's just that, the cheapest. A lot of factors have to be considered before making a final decision on the product/service. Take insulation boards for example. Their insulating properties are different yet they are the same size so its very unfair to suggest that the cheapest would be the best unless of course the evidence is provided to back up the claim.

In light of the above I hope you see why your posts/comments have been challenged. Its nothing personal and the guys are basically trying to obtain your thoughts and reasoning behind some of your posts.

I think i will keep it simple from here on in. I like to post but if I have to explain and prove everything because somebody does not like or disagrees with what I say it is going to take a long time to explain myself. I wasted plenty time explaining my posts last night. I really don't have time to explain everything. I will not be doing it again. I can understand discussing something but looking for close enough to what i would call evidence to back up a post is a bit much everytime:(. Your point is noted and I will try harder to make myself clearer:).