'Traveller housing not wanted here,' say locals

IrishAm

KeithAFC wrote: »

I won't take lessons from some one who lives in New Hampshire in the heart of the US Empire. Perhaps when you give the South back to the Southern people, then I will listen.

Have you ever actually been to the US? Scratch that, have you ever actually left Ireland?

johngalway

FinnLizzy wrote: »

they have to go somewhere

I hear England is good

charlemont

KeithAFC wrote: »

I won't take lessons from some one who lives in New Hampshire in the heart of the US Empire. Perhaps when you give the South back to the Southern people, then I will listen.

I'm gonna be sick from laughing at that, Good one Keith..:cool:

This song explains a lot...Enjoy

Paidins Party lyrics

In a pub in tullawagin
There was party for Paidin
Shur the craic it was mighty one night
Guitars were clanging
Pool balls were banging
And the Knackers were roaring to fight

When the drink finally hit him says Paidin
Lets get them then he made a mad rush across the floor
Well the chairs started flying
And the auld ones were crying
Then came the load knock on the door

Twas the Garda siochaini outside
4 big red faces hobnails and braces
And the knackers were roaring to fight
Shur the craic twas mighty that night

Down at the station it would bring tears to our nation
To see the cut of the boys
There was poor paidin and the boys from tullawagin
And the knackers were all telling lies

At 4 in the morning the sargent was yawning
When the final statement was read
With his 2 bleary eyes
After hearing such lies
He raised the big fist and he said

Go home now get out of me sight
Your driving me crackers
Your nothing but knackers
And Paidin you'll pay for this night
Well the craic it was mighty that night

Down at the courthouse the next Tuesday morning
Well the courtroom was packed back to back
There was poor paidin and the boys from tullawaidin
And the knackers that started the craic
They were all fined a fiver by a judge called mcIvor
Then he scratched the bald head trying to think
T'would bring tears to a snowman when he said
You can go man then he seen them stampead for more drink

Over in the pub once again there was poor paidin
And the boys from tullawaidin
And the knackers were at it again
Well the craic it was mighty again
In tullawaidin the craic never ends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBfpf7pCvWM

gcgirl

It's unbelievable the attitudes here towards the travelling community, I live right beside a settled couple and I absolutly love them ! They along with a few other settled family's in my estate are the soundest people, take this evening I had to move stuff for my mum and went in to my next door neighbour to see if he would move it and he actually loaned me his van, did not have to pay him a penny though I did put diesel it the van but I would not swap them for anything and I will defend them like I would my family.
A small minority of trouble makers do not define the settled families I know and I'd rather live beside them in comparison to some people who thinks their **** smells like roses

inmyday

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sorry, what is wrong?

I give my opinion on this distinct people and want them to live the way they want. I don't see why referencing my Unionism has got to do with this thread. It is very old and boring.

Why are you trying to annoy people? No one really cares about your unionism?

And what do you mean, you want them to live the way they want???? That makes no sense when some travellers break the law very often. Most I came across have done nothing but fight or steal.

KeithAFC

inmyday wrote: »

Why are you trying to annoy people? No one really cares about your unionism?

And what do you mean, you want them to live the way they want???? That makes no sense when some travellers break the law very often. Most I came across have done nothing but fight or steal.

No one is trying to annoy anyone. People need to stop going on about it in every thread. It is boring. Why bring up Israel or Unionism in this thread which is about Travellers? I am only defending the Travellers.

So please, can we keep to the topic at hand?

Mal-Adjusted

KeithAFC wrote: »

No one is trying to annoy anyone. People need to stop going on about it in every thread. It is boring. Why bring up Israel or Unionism in this thread which is about Travellers? I am only defending the Travellers.

So please, can we keep to the topic at hand?

how about you back-up your opinion in the face of very real concerns?

KeithAFC

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

how about you back-up your opinion in the face of very real concerns?

This is a real concern of mine. What do you want me to discuss?

Mal-Adjusted

KeithAFC wrote: »

This is a real concern of mine. What do you want me to discuss?

i'm sure it is. you gave your opinion that travelers should be allowed to live their lives however they want. Other posters rebutted, pointing out that this would allow free reign to continue thieving, living off of social welfare and demanding resources from the settled community while contributing nothing towards said community. what I would like is for you to explain, if you can, why these things don't matter.

KeithAFC

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

i'm sure it is. you gave your opinion that travelers should be allowed to live their lives however they want. Other posters rebutted, pointing out that this would allow free reign to continue thieving, living off of social welfare and demanding resources from the settled community while contributing nothing towards said community. what I would like is for you to explain, if you can, why these things don't matter.

I think it does matter. Don't get me wrong. I just get the "vibe" that some people would wish these people would be locked up and the key thrown away. I think it is important we welcome them to carry on how they live and hopefully things improve for people who they might annoy.

I think an international Travelling march would be good in support of the Travellers.

RiseToTheTop

In all likelihood, if a big family of travellers moved into the area the locals would be hassled and the crime rate would increase.

markesmith

KeithAFC wrote: »

This is a real concern of mine. What do you want me to discuss?

It's not your Unionism, more your ongoing trolling, lad.

You've defined your own self through your Unionism. A cursory glance through your post history shows your chief interests to be Unionism, McGuinness/IRA (slagging him/them off), Rangers, and...Arsenal (probably because Rangers are soon to be an ex-football team).

What is your point exactly regarding the Travellers? You don't seem to have ever shown much interest in this subject before...

I see you as a troll and I've disappointed myself in even responding to you here.

Smeggy

gcgirl wrote: »

A small minority of trouble makers do not define the settled families I know and I'd rather live beside them in comparison to some people who thinks their **** smells like roses

I would actually say that your decent neighbours are the minority not the other way around!

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think it does matter. Don't get me wrong. I just get the "vibe" that some people would wish these people would be locked up and the key thrown away. I think it is important we welcome them to carry on how they live and hopefully things improve for people who they might annoy.

I think an international Travelling march would be good in support of the Travellers.

Why don't you head on now and organise that for them? :rolleyes:

KeithAFC

markesmith wrote: »

It's not your Unionism, more your ongoing trolling, lad.

You've defined your own self through your Unionism. A cursory glance through your post history shows your chief interests to be Unionism, McGuinness/IRA (slagging him/them off), Rangers, and...Arsenal (probably because Rangers are soon to be an ex-football team).

What is your point exactly regarding the Travellers? You don't seem to have ever shown much interest in this subject before...

I see you as a troll and I've disappointed myself in even responding to you here.

Can we please stick to this topic? This is a old tactic used to try and ignore the topic at hand as the argument is being defeated by those against this distinct people.

Dudess

KeithAFC wrote: »

Can we please stick to this topic? This is a old tactic used to try and ignore the topic at hand as the argument is being defeated by those against this distinct people.

No argument against travellers who cause mayhem is being defeated at all. And if you weren't trolling you'd acknowledge the vast majority here are not complaining about any travellers who are good people. Not to mention your recommendation of a travellers' rights march and your notion that the southern United States ever belonged exclusively to black people
- lol. You're clearly going against the grain just for the sake of it and it's quite pitiful. If people here were mostly defending travellers you'd be condemning them.

Mal-Adjusted

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think it does matter. Don't get me wrong. I just get the "vibe" that some people would wish these people would be locked up and the key thrown away. I think it is important we welcome them to carry on how they live and hopefully things improve for people who they might annoy

That says nothing to back up your initial post. you're just off on a tangent now. Stop dancing around the subject and actually engage.

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think an international Travelling march would be good in support of the Travellers.

no Keith, a good troll isn't as obvious at that

markesmith

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think this is unfair. They don't cause a lot of hassle. I think that is basic cherry picking.

KeithAFC wrote: »

A common theme you hear and see is many people from large industrial cities have a go at people who are distinct from them...

So many opinions on this thread - and so many threads closed - by people who have expressed honest experiences. You're being disingenuous here.

KeithAFC wrote: »

Can we please stick to this topic? This is a old tactic...

KeithAFC wrote: »

It really isn't up to you to dictate...

KeithAFC wrote: »

Don't reply to my posts then. I don't see what that sentence adds to the debate.

KeithAFC wrote: »

And again, what is your point?

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sorry, what is wrong?

KeithAFC wrote: »

No one is trying to annoy anyone. People need to stop going on about it in every thread. It is boring.

My head hurts.

You've got a persecution complex, KeithAFC, and you seem to like the drama that comes with it. Might be worth looking a bit deeper into that. It's not a Unionist thing, it's a you thing.

KeithAFC

Dudess wrote: »

No argument against travellers who cause mayhem is being defeated at all. And if you weren't trolling you'd acknowledge the vast majority here are not complaining about any travellers who are good people. Not to mention your recommendation of a travellers' rights march and your notion that the southern United States ever belonged exclusively to black people
- lol. You're clearly going against the grain just for the sake of it and it's quite pitiful. If people here were mostly defending travellers you'd be condemning them.

I understand some people on here have geniune concerns about what is happening to them by Travellers. But and this is important. Some people have pointed out before on here that there seems to be this dislike of the Travelling community on this Island. Perhaps if we could figure out why that is, then we could move in the right direction.

The accusations of trolling is a perfect example of some one who is losing the argument or can't put across a good argument against the Travelling community and must put all the attention back on the defender of this distinct people.

I say we forget that and try to have a good discussion on it.

hat says nothing to back up your initial post. you're just off on a tangent now. Stop dancing around the subject and actually engage.

I seem to be the only one who has engaged in the discussion. Others seem for some bizarre reason perplexed on my political views (Unionism) and Israel. It is completely baffling to me why people would try and ruin this thread by going down that path.

Lets stick to the big discussion here and that is the rights of the Travellers.

My head hurts. You've got a persecution complex, KeithAFC, and you seem to like the drama that comes with it. Might be worth looking a bit deeper into that. It's not a Unionist thing, it's a you thing.

Have you got something to add to this thread and lets discuss the topic at hand which is about Travellers.

Mal-Adjusted

KeithAFC wrote: »

I understand some people on here have geniune concerns about what is happening to them by Travellers. But and this is important. Some people have pointed out before on here that there seems to be this dislike of the Travelling community on this Island. Perhaps if we could figure out why that is, then we could move in the right direction.

it has already been explained why. you just refuse to see it.

KeithAFC wrote: »

The accusations of trolling is a perfect example of some one who is losing the argument or can't put across a good argument against the Travelling community and must put all the attention back on the defender of this distinct people.

yet another attempt at derailing the thread.

KeithAFC wrote: »

I seem to be the only one who has engaged in the discussion. Others seem for some bizarre reason perplexed on my political views (Unionism) and Israel. It is completely baffling to me why people would try and ruin this thread by going down that path.

Lets stick to the big discussion here and that is the rights of the Travellers.

nobody here is talking about unionism and Israel except you. if you truly want to engage, then answer my question from so many posts ago:

you gave your opinion that travelers should be allowed to live their lives however they want. Other posters rebutted, pointing out that this would allow free reign to continue thieving, living off of social welfare and demanding resources from the settled community while contributing nothing towards said community. what I would like is for you to explain, if you can, why these things don't matter.

you talk about engaging, but you never actually do...

KeithAFC

it has already been explained why. you just refuse to see it.

No it hasn't. This distain at the Travelling community hasn't been explained properly.

yet another attempt at derailing the thread.

How so? I make a point about Travellers and defending them. Then I get accused of trolling by people trying to troll me because I defend the Travelling community. I have a different opinion on it from some people. I think some people should respect that. I think they get unfair judgement.

nobody here is talking about unionism and Israel except you. if you truly want to engage, then answer my question from so many posts ago:

You can see why history is re written. Some one brought up Unionism in this thread and Israel. What on earth has that got to do with this thread. So yes, some one did bring it up and try to troll me in this thread.

Lets discuss the topic and stick to the topic.

Mal-Adjusted

KeithAFC wrote: »

No it hasn't. This distain at the Travelling community hasn't been explained properly.

reading posts through a filter are we? :rolleyes:

KeithAFC wrote: »

How so? I make a point about Travellers and defending them. Then I get accused of trolling by people trying to troll me because I defend the Travelling community. I have a different opinion on it from some people. I think some people should respect that. I think they get unfair judgement.

it's fine to have an opinion, but when your points are shot down in burning heaps, to then go on and play the victim while at no way attempting to defend your original point is trolling.

KeithAFC wrote: »

You can see why history is re written. Some one brought up Unionism in this thread and Israel. What on earth has that got to do with this thread. So yes, some one did bring it up and try to troll me in this thread.

Oh, hold on, I thought that...
Originally Posted by KeithAFC
The accusations of trolling is a perfect example of some one who is losing the argument or can't put across a good argument.

KeithAFC wrote: »

Lets discuss the topic and stick to the topic.

you have no interest in discussing anything. you simply want to go against the grain for the sake of it and drag the thread down with you... it's pitiful.

KeithAFC

reading posts through a filter are we?

If the nonsense was left out and discussed it properly, there would be no need to point it out. I see nothing wrong with defending the community against what I perceive unfair criticism. I am entitled to do that believe it or not.

it's fine to have an opinion, but when your points are shot down in burning heaps, to then go on and play the victim while at no way attempting to defend your original point is trolling.

Again, look at my points. I said I understand what some people are against some sections of the Travelling community and why some people get angry at them but many times you do see some proper distain against this distinct people which I feel is unfair. I think they should be allowed to live the traditional way they do. Some people think it should be without annoying other people. I agree with that but you could say that about anyone or any community of unique people.

you have no interest in discussing anything. you simply want to go against the grain for the sake of it and drag the thread down with you... it's pitiful.

If you are trying to bait me or turn this personal, it won't work. Lets discuss the real big issue at hand here and that is the Travelling community. If you don't want to, then don't post.

Doc Ruby

KeithAFC wrote: »

If the nonsense was left out and discussed it properly, there would be no need to point it out. I see nothing wrong with defending the community against what I perceive unfair criticism. I am entitled to do that believe it or not.

Keith if you're worried that the same methods being successfully used to resolve the antisocial behaviour issues of travellers are going to be used to resolve the godawful shambles of racism, sectarianism, and intolerance left behind by centuries of spectacular but fairly typical british mismanagement...

..you're quite right, they will be.

Successfully.

Mal-Adjusted

KeithAFC wrote: »

Again, look at my points. I said I understand what some people are against some sections of the Travelling community and why some people get angry at them but many times you do see some proper distain against this distinct people which I feel is unfair. I think they should be allowed to live the traditional way they do. Some people think it should be without annoying other people. I agree with that but you could say that about anyone or any community of unique people.

As has been said before, travelers do not live a traditional way, nor have they done for several generations.

it saddens me to say that in the vast majority of cases, when travelers are in an area, break-ins increase and the entire community shuts down. they leave the area looking like Baghdad.

very few of them have employment, yet never seem short of cash judging by their cars. they have a culture of crime and poor education, as well as looking to the state (that very few contribute to) to provide fully facilitated halting sites. THese are not prejudices, but reported facts. Why should the settled community put up with that, given the clear disdain many travelers seem to have?
Saying "it's their culture" is not a valid excuse for such parasitism.

There are some honest decent travelers who do get unfairly targeted, but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

KeithAFC

As has been said before, travelers do not live a traditional way, nor have they done for several generations.

A good amount do though. You still have some who follow the traditional guidelines they have been brought up. I understand many don't. I think that is a question for which the Travelling community should answer more so than me but I do think it is important they get a say on this.

Keith if you're worried that the same methods being successfully used to resolve the antisocial behaviour issues of travellers are going to be used to resolve the godawful shambles of racism, sectarianism, and intolerance left behind by centuries of spectacular but fairly typical british mismanagement...

..you're quite right, they will be.

Successfully.

Doc Ruby, I respect your right to have this view but it was the view I was talking about. Why bring up British in this thread? It has nothing to do with this thread. It was what I was on about. Trying to take the attention away from the bigger issue at hand.

dark crystal

gcgirl wrote: »

It's unbelievable the attitudes here towards the travelling community, I live right beside a settled couple and I absolutly love them ! They along with a few other settled family's in my estate are the soundest people, take this evening I had to move stuff for my mum and went in to my next door neighbour to see if he would move it and he actually loaned me his van, did not have to pay him a penny though I did put diesel it the van but I would not swap them for anything and I will defend them like I would my family.
A small minority of trouble makers do not define the settled families I know and I'd rather live beside them in comparison to some people who thinks their **** smells like roses

While it's great that you have nice neighbours, I had settled travellers move in next door to me and it's been hell.

Their back garden is a tip. There are approximately 40 black bags of rubbish piled up against their garden wall, most of that rubbish has been torn asunder there is litter all over their back lawn. One of the 4 daughters spray painted the back wall with illegible grafitti two weeks after they moved in.

They have three dogs, none of whom are left indoors. They sh!t in our garden and bark day and night.

The man of the house regularly gets flutered and uses the back porch adjoining ours as his own personal urinal. One day while I was out gardening, he stumbled out his back door, squatted and took a crap in full view of myself and my son. This is at 3 o'clock in the afternoon. Christ knows why he can't use the bathroom like other normal people.

They frequently play either country and western or Justin Bieber at full volume for hours on end and the woman of the house has stumbled outside on at least three different occasions and vomited up whatever booze she had been consuming that day, once in front of her crying toddler (who has since been taken out of that home). Once again, their bodily fluids never managed to make it to the bathroom.

6 months after they moved in, we were awoken at 4 in the morning by our side gate being battered down by the police who were chasing an occupant of the house, who had leaped into our garden to escape. The gate was ruined, they never apologised or offered to help mend it or pay for the damage.

It seems you got lucky having decent traveller neighbours, however we haven't been so lucky. We certainly don't have any airs or graces, but only ask for neighbours who have a modicum of respect for the people they live next to. These people only care about themselves and don't care how their lifestyle affects others in their vicinity. I'm dreading the summer....

Mal-Adjusted

KeithAFC wrote: »

A good amount do though. You still have some who follow the traditional guidelines they have been brought up. I understand many don't. I think that is a question for which the Travelling community should answer more so than me but I do think it is important they get a say on this

and that small amount aren't in issue here. nor are the settled travelers that abide by societies laws, it's the vast majority of those who flaunt those laws yet expect us to provide for them that are at issue.

dark crystal

KeithAFC wrote: »

I make a point about Travellers and defending them. Then I get accused of trolling by people trying to troll me because I defend the Travelling community. I have a different opinion on it from some people. I think some people should respect that. I think they get unfair judgement.
.

Keith, have you ever lived in close proximity to a halting site, or lived near settled travellers.

Doc Ruby

KeithAFC wrote: »

Doc Ruby, I respect your right to have this view but it was the view I was talking about. Why bring up British in this thread? It has nothing to do with this thread. It was what I was on about. Trying to take the attention away from the bigger issue at hand.

But sure what, people are blue in the face telling you what's going on. I'm merely getting at your deeper motivations, in reference to your continued comments on a traditional way of life.

Some traditions are vile, Keith, and can expect no sympathy or aid.

There's a wind blowing not just from the Republic but from the whole world, and not a bigoted enclave can stand up in the face of it. A smart man would set his sheets to catch the breeze rather than founder on the rocks of ignorance if you take my meaning. And I'm taking it as a given that you're a smart man, Keith.

You can't tar a whole community just because a small percentage give them a bad name. I could tell you horrendous tales about inner city families being relocated to the suburbs and causing far more disruption than settled travellers.
If they were given more respect they might respect others better. there are plenty of civilized traveller families.

KeithAFC

Doc Ruby wrote: »

But sure what, people are blue in the face telling you what's going on. I'm merely getting at your deeper motivations, in reference to your continued comments on a traditional way of life.

Some traditions are vile, Keith, and can expect no sympathy or aid.

There's a wind blowing not just from the Republic but from the whole world, and not a bigoted enclave can stand up in the face of it. A smart man would set his sheets to catch the breeze rather than founder on the rocks of ignorance if you take my meaning. And I'm taking it as a given that you're a smart man, Keith.

Are you trying to tell me the Travelling way of life is vile? Do you not think that is a bit OOT? Perhaps certain things might be wrong, but I am sceptical to just how bad it is according to some people.

Doc Ruby

KeithAFC wrote: »

Are you trying to tell me the Travelling way of life is vile? Do you not think that is a bit OOT? Perhaps certain things might be wrong, but I am sceptical to just how bad it is according to some people.

It didn't used to be bad. There used to be pride, and skill by god, but the world has passed them by. So now the time has come, similar to your own traditions, to embrace the future and make the most of it. Its going to happen one way or the other.

KeithAFC

Doc Ruby wrote: »

It didn't used to be bad. There used to be pride, and skill by god, but the world has passed them by. So now the time has come, similar to your own traditions, to embrace the future and make the most of it. Its going to happen one way or the other.

This is why they are a defensive people who are against the establishment trying to change their way of life. Like some one else said on the same page, perhaps if the distain wasn't so big, they would be less hostile to the people wanting to change the way they live.

Doc Ruby

KeithAFC wrote: »

This is why they are a defensive people who are against the establishment trying to change their way of life. Like some one else said on the same page, perhaps if the distain wasn't so big, they would be less hostile to the people wanting to change the way they live.

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? The bad behaviour, and it is bad, or the disdain for said behaviour? The Irish government is actively working to change peoples' attitudes towards travellers at the same time as they are working towards changing the attitudes of travellers. This is the correct approach to social problems like this, but you need to realise that some traditions belong in the dust.

Regardless of whether or not you realise it however, that's where they are going to end up, as sure as the sun rises in the east.

Mal-Adjusted

KeithAFC wrote: »

This is why they are a defensive people who are against the establishment trying to change their way of life. Like some one else said on the same page, perhaps if the distain wasn't so big, they would be less hostile to the people wanting to change the way they live.

a way of life that revolves around criminality and parasitism isn't worth keeping, not by any justification you can come up with. They are the only ones who do have to worry about changes being forced on them, not the decent ones. it's not as if the guards are burning down their caravans and forcing them into housing estates...

KeithAFC

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? The bad behaviour, and it is bad, or the disdain for said behaviour? The Irish government is actively working to change peoples' attitudes towards travellers at the same time as they are working towards changing the attitudes of travellers. This is the correct approach to social problems like this, but you need to realise that some traditions belong in the dust.

Regardless of whether or not you realise it however, that's where they are going to end up, as sure as the sun rises in the east.

It is up to the people of these traditions to change if they want to do so. They must be respected to make that decision. Of course some will argue the point that sometimes governments have to step in and make them change. But I don't think the Travelling community is as bad as some people make out.

I would give them the self determination and liberty to make up their decisions within that community. They should have the right to happiness and if they want to live a certain way, I see no problem with that.

dark crystal

KeithAFC wrote: »

Perhaps certain things might be wrong, but I am sceptical to just how bad it is according to some people.

Keith, as you never replied to me the last time, I'll ask again.....have you ever lived in close proximity to a halting site or lived next to a traveller family.

Stained Class

Keith AFC.

I hate the PIRA & all that it stands for.

For that reason part of me admired you & your stance against them.

However,your 'contributions' to this thread will probably make me vote SF the next election.

Smooth move Keith, smooth move.:rolleyes:

Doc Ruby

KeithAFC wrote: »

It is up to the people of these traditions to change if they want to do so. They must be respected to make that decision. Of course some will argue the point that sometimes governments have to step in and make them change. But I don't think the Travelling community is as bad as some people make out.

Bad behaviour gets adjusted, Keith, that's the reason for the justice system in every country on earth. Would you leave the nazis to "change if they want to"? Actually don't answer that question.

KeithAFC wrote: »

I would give them the self determination and liberty to make up their decisions within that community. They should have the right to happiness and if they want to live a certain way, I see no problem with that.

If those decisions include the persecution of the people around them, the people around them have the right to engage in policies to adjust that behaviour. Travellers can be grateful such policies are as mild as they are.

dark crystal

dark crystal wrote: »

KeithAFC wrote: »

Perhaps certain things might be wrong, but I am sceptical to just how bad it is according to some people.

Keith, as you never replied to me the last time, I'll ask again.....have you ever lived in close proximity to a halting site or lived next to a traveller family.

I lived in Tuam which was once the equivalent of living in a halting site...

byhookorbycrook

For a small percentage the people who give travellers a bad name seem to get around.

I grew up in a town that holds an annual fair. Each year our house was besieged by caravans. My mother, a widow with four children was spat at,threatened with rape ,burning out and so on. She now says she never slept for the fortnight around the fair since we were broken into 5 years running.

I remember the people at the other end of the town telling us how unfair we were to find fault (led by the local convent)and that we should be nice to the travellers and they'd be nice to us. One year, our end of the town had enough,blocked off places where caravans could park etc. The other side of the town got what we had put up with for 20 years. Next thing, nuns were on to tds, gardaí and anyone else they could find to get the travellers moved.

Now, I live in another part of the country that also holds a fair. The local co. council pay thousands each year to clean up the debris, the town itself closes down to business and live in fear and dread of feuds for the days around the fair. Plus ca change...

I have no doubt some travellers are decent people, but they need to start speaking up and condemning this crap outright, not saying it's only the few.

KeithAFC

Bad behaviour gets adjusted, Keith, that's the reason for the justice system in every country on earth. Would you leave the nazis to "change if they want to"? Actually don't answer that question.

There is bad behaviour and "BAD" behaviour. Bringing up the Nazis does nothing for your argument. A bit godwin really.

Keith AFC.

I hate the PIRA & all that it stands for.

For that reason part of me admired you & your stance against them.

However,your 'contributions' to this thread will probably make me vote SF the next election.

Smooth move Keith, smooth move

You are entitled to do what you want. I respect your democratic choice. What that has to do with this thread is anyone's guess.

If those decisions include the persecution of the people around them, the people around them have the right to engage in policies to adjust that behaviour. Travellers can be grateful such policies are as mild as they are.

But we are talking about the Travelling community. I would love to know if the Travelling community is persecuting people and if what people say about the Travelling community isn't just generalisations and built on myths?

Keith, as you never replied to me the last time, I'll ask again.....have you ever lived in close proximity to a halting site or lived next to a traveller family.

I have met Travellers before and I found them to be nice people. Sure you hear bad stories but is it THAT bad? I am sceptical.

Doc Ruby

KeithAFC wrote: »

There is bad behaviour and "BAD" behaviour. Bringing up the Nazis does nothing for your argument. A bit godwin really.

I see you took the smart option and didn't answer the question. There's hope for you yet.

KeithAFC wrote: »

But we are talking about the Travelling community. I would love to know if the Travelling community is persecuting people and if what people say about the Travelling community isn't just generalisations and built on myths?

Its not a credible situation that you can actually not have read all the posts in this thread and many others about the very real problems caused by travellers so I'll assume you're being factious here. As real, in fact, as norn iron being the racism capital of the world, which I have no hesitation at all in laying at the feet of unionists.

Deal with it, or it will be dealt with for you.

Stained Class

KeithAFC.

What's your view on Roma Gypsies?

They have a unique lifestyle too.

I'm asking 'cos some of your countrymen ran them out a few years ago.

KeithAFC

I see you took the smart option and didn't answer the question. There's hope for you yet.

You brought up the Nazis as an attempt to argue that some "traditions" should be dealt with. If I was part of the Travelling community, I would find that insulting. It really has nothing to do with this thread as that is a completely different discussion.

Its not a credible situation that you can actually not have read all the posts in this thread and many others about the very real problems caused by travellers so I'll assume you're being factious here. As real, in fact, as norn iron being the racism capital of the world, which I have no hesitation at all in laying at the feet of unionists.

Deal with it, or it will be dealt with for you.

I have read posts on here in which people have posted opinions on the Travelling community and why they dislike certain things they do and the bad things some from that community have done.

I just question the severity of it and if it is as bad as some try to make out. Is it worth changing the whole life style they live because some bad things happen in that community? I am not too sure and I think it is up to the people in the Travelling community to enforce change if that is what they want.

Some might disagree but that is fine. People have different opinions on this.

EGAR

187 out of 212 call outs I had related to the Traveller community, both settled and in halting sites/caravans illegally parked along the roads.

In 178 out of the 187 cases the Gardai had to be involved as the occupants were less then cooperating. One case was a false report by a feuding family.

I called in Social Service in 21 cases as I had serious concerns re the welfare of children at the household.

25 out of 212 call outs were to non Travellers. I had to call in the Gardai in one case out of these and Social Services in none.

And that was just for 2011.

Out of 16 horses currently being looked after here, 13 were seized from Travellers. One was surrendered by a farmer as he could not look after it anymore and the other 2 were dumped in a bog, so I cannot say 100% where they came from.

And I don't even want to do the numbers for the dogs, goats and chickens...

That is not an opinion THAT is experience.

Edited to say photographic evidence of these callouts can be provided although they are very graphic and may upset a lot of people.

Mal-Adjusted

KeithAFC wrote: »

I have read posts on here in which people have posted opinions on the Travelling community and why they dislike certain things they do and the bad things some from that community have done.

I just question the severity of it and if it is as bad as some try to make out.

people are giving personal experiences. they're impossible to prove or disprove, so we can either call them liars or take them at their word. what is it to be?

KeithAFC wrote: »

Is it worth changing the whole life style they live because some bad things happen in that community?

The bad things that happen ARE the whole lifestyle. it's one based on criminality and parasitism. no matter how many times it's said, you refuse to hear it.

KeithAFC wrote: »

I am not too sure and I think it is up to the people in the Travelling community to enforce change if that is what they want.

Why would they change themselves? they can steal from shops and break into houses/farmyards without fear of the guards persecuting them.

red sean

EGAR, they are horrifying statistics. But I have no doubt 100% true and speak for themselves.

dark crystal

KeithAFC wrote: »

I would love to know if the Travelling community is persecuting people and if what people say about the Travelling community isn't just generalisations and built on myths?


I have met Travellers before and I found them to be nice people. Sure you hear bad stories but is it THAT bad? I am sceptical.

You can choose to believe the stories people here are telling you, or you can simply write them off as myth. That's up to you.

I've told you my personal experience (I won't even go into the time my mother's shop was robbed blind by 3 traveller women, or the time my little sister was assaulted in broad daylight by a traveller child, who wanted the sweets she was eating at the time, or the time my aunt had her dog killed by a traveller's unleashed dog and was then threatened with a gun for reporting the attack), and it's entirely your right to defend them if you so wish.

However, I'm not so sure you have had anything other than very limited exposure to travellers and therefore have formed some romanticised view of the traditional stereotypical 'gypsy' style traveller from days of yore.

I have no doubt there are good travellers as well as bad ones, but unfortunately many people have been exposed too many times to the bad ones and that's where opinions are formed.

Doc Ruby

KeithAFC wrote: »

Is it worth changing the whole life style they live because some bad things happen in that community?

Nope, but its worth changing the bad parts. I honestly hope they keep the good parts of their culture, whatever is left of them, the world can never be too diverse. Its a constant source of delight to me.

As for the fine traditions of the north, you'll reap your fool's wages. Nothing personal, that's just how things work.