'Traveller housing not wanted here,' say locals

EGAR

A few of the tamer pics.

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/63637_490867230888_169411475888_5957724_6544543_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/63637_490867220888_169411475888_5957722_7079235_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/485664_10150667140190889_169411475888_9485726_492068506_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/317753_10150290068185889_169411475888_7905698_4666554_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/317753_10150290068165889_169411475888_7905696_4743512_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/206930_10150153028000889_169411475888_6717319_521198_n.jpg

grindle

KeithAFC wrote: »

I have met Travellers before and I found them to be nice people. Sure you hear bad stories but is it THAT bad? I am sceptical.

I've had rocks (not the sweet kind) thrown at me by them, been told to fück off out of their "area" (walking past Roxboro S.C., Limerick), spat on by one, threatened in my shop on multiple occasions, get fleeced in said shop weekly by them (oh look, a crowd of 'em enter, block cameras, and ten seconds later the stand is half-empty! How kind and unusual of them!).
The entrance to my primary school was used as a halting site by them one summer and they wouldn't budge when term started again. They started using our playground as their toilet, shît everywhere, pools of piss everywhere, destroying our grassy fields and attracting ridiculous amounts of rats and mice, so we had tons of rat and mouse droppings everywhere, along with a healthy dose of mouse carcasses hidden in the long grass for months afterwards.
We had to stay indoors while they were validating their culture and once they were moved to the edge of Shannon on the road towards Limerick (where, on a bus journey, you could watch the youngsters boxing seven shades out of eachother), we had to wait two weeks to go outside while the County Council's men in white suits sterilised the surrounding area.
Had one do TY work experience with us years back: good physical worker, but extremely shîtty attitude, constantly aggressive towards customers, so off to clean our stock-room she went. Turns out all that caravan-training has benefits.
Horrific amounts of tax wasted on them.

Yes indeed, what a wonderful "race".

Stained Class

Keith went awful quiet when I mentioned the Romas.:rolleyes:

Alright till it's on your doorstep.

Right?

IrishAm

Does anyone actually have any solutions to the problems?

How can the Irish state successfully integrate the travellers into society?

IrishAm

Stained Class wrote: »

Keith AFC.

I hate the PIRA & all that it stands for.

For that reason part of me admired you & your stance against them.

However,your 'contributions' to this thread will probably make me vote SF the next election.

Smooth move Keith, smooth move.:rolleyes:

You would vote for a party just to spite some anonymous poster on a discussion forum? :pac:

grindle

IrishAm wrote: »

How can the Irish state successfully integrate the travellers into society?

It's not the Irish state's job to integrate them, it's the travellers' job.

old_aussie

Travellerphobia hits ireland.

You should respect travellers beliefs and ways, and not stand up for your rights even though most would not care a rat's arse about travellers ways.

If travellers don't like you sitting a certain way you should sit how they want you to sit, and respect their cistoms and beliefs.

Yeah right:rolleyes:

Stained Class

IrishAm wrote: »

Does anyone actually have any solutions to the problems?

How can the Irish state successfully integrate the travellers into society?

Cut off the Welfare for a start.

Send in CAB to see how so many of them have so much material wealth.

Close Pavee Point (which we pay for anyway)

That's for a start, more suggestions please!

dark crystal

IrishAm wrote: »

How can the Irish state successfully integrate the travellers into society?

The travellers have to want to integrate. As it stands, they prefer being classed as a seperate minority and all the perks that come with it.

I honestly can't see how things will ever change until they themselves are willing to integrate. Until then, there will always be a 'them and us' mentality between the travelling community and the settled community.

IrishAm

grindle wrote: »

It's not the Irish state's job to integrate them, it's the travellers' job.

It most certainly is the responsibility of the state to try and integrate them if they want a functioning and healthy society.

Education is key here.

I believe child benefit payments should be linked in with school attendance. If a child is out ill for more than three days without a doctors note, no child benefit should be paid out to the parents for that month. If a child builds up a certain pattern of absenteeism, call the parents in to explain. No valid explanation, there goes another month of child benefit. Treat it like a company would treat their workforce. The parents job is to bring up the child and give it the best possible start in life.

I would apply this across the board, not just for the creamers.

grindle

IrishAm wrote: »

I believe child benefit payments should be linked in with school attendance. If a child is out ill for more than three days without a doctors note, no child benefit should be paid out to the parents for that month. If a child builds up a certain pattern of absenteeism, call the parents in to explain. No valid explanation, there goes another month of child benefit. Treat it like a company would treat their workforce. The parents job is to bring up the child and give it the best possible start in life.

That's not an attempt to integrate them (they who don't want to be integrated, can't be), that's an attempt to force them to integrate themselves.
I like it though. Good idea.

IrishAm

grindle wrote: »

That's not an attempt to integrate them (they who don't want to be integrated, can't be), that's an attempt to force them to integrate themselves.
I like it though. Good idea.

As things stand, it would be impossible to integrate any adult traveller into Irish society. But we can and should, do our level best to integrate traveller children into society. Education is the first key step.

Dudess

red sean wrote: »

EGAR, they are horrifying statistics. But I have no doubt 100% true and speak for themselves.

And no doubt KeithAFC will pretend they don't exist.

IrishAm

Stained Class wrote: »

Send in CAB to see how so many of them have so much material wealth.

Yes. I would like to see CAB come down like a tonne of bricks on many different groups in Irish society. Travellers just being one of them. Politicians, property developers, bankers, 20 year olds whom never worked a day in their natural, driving beamers. Its a long list.

The government needs to give CAB more power.

Stained Class wrote: »

Close Pavee Point (which we pay for anyway)!

Absolutely. Pavee Point and its "workforce" are also heavily involved in integration quangos set up to help non Irish citizens seem into Irish society.

Expect similar results.

Dudess

old_aussie wrote: »

Travellerphobia hits ireland.

You should respect travellers beliefs and ways, and not stand up for your rights even though most would not care a rat's arse about travellers ways.

If travellers don't like you sitting a certain way you should sit how they want you to sit, and respect their cistoms and beliefs.

Yeah right:rolleyes:

Leaving some valuable info out here dude - if you're referring to the time you put your feet on the table in a train as an act of hostility to the Muslim man sitting opposite you, which wasn't you "sitting a certain way", it was you harassing a man who didn't do anything to you, other than be a member of an ethnic group you hate.

What destruction and intimidation do Muslims cause to you, seeing as that's what's being discussed here?

Freddie59

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sorry, what is wrong?

I give my opinion on this distinct people and want them to live the way they want. I don't see why referencing my Unionism has got to do with this thread. It is very old and boring.

Because you don't want to hear it. When you think of what your lot did to Catholics in the North, and you come on here attempting to both wind people us and adopt the moral high ground.

Is this what you call respecting people's belief and cultures:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIdfe2H3bXU

Freddie59

Stained Class wrote: »

I hate the PIRA & all that it stands for

Were it not for the IRA the Catholics in the North would have been ethnically cleansed before the term even existed. For all their sins they are owed some gratitude.

**Vai**

Meow_Meow wrote: »

Was going to thank that until the last lines. Way harsh.

You might think its harsh but I'd have no problem doing it myself after the things Ive seen. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire and given that (most of) these people are the lowest of the low I wouldnt expect everyone to agree with what I consider acceptable punishment. Either that or mandatory sterilisation. Genuinely.

**Vai**

EGAR wrote: »

A few of the tamer pics.

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/63637_490867230888_169411475888_5957724_6544543_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/63637_490867220888_169411475888_5957722_7079235_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/485664_10150667140190889_169411475888_9485726_492068506_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/317753_10150290068185889_169411475888_7905698_4666554_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/317753_10150290068165889_169411475888_7905696_4743512_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/206930_10150153028000889_169411475888_6717319_521198_n.jpg

Who was it that said you can judge a people by the way they treat their old people? Same can definitely be said for the way they treat their animals. Travellers have a long history of animal abuse, I suppose thats part of their culture now too.

Meow_Meow

**Vai** wrote: »

You might think its harsh but I'd have no problem doing it myself after the things Ive seen. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire and given that (most of) these people are the lowest of the low I wouldnt expect everyone to agree with what I consider acceptable punishment. Either that or mandatory sterilisation. Genuinely.

So genocide or mass sterilisation? Jaysus, someone's been drawing inspiration from Mein Kampf...

**Vai**

Hey Adolf was a pretty intelligent guy! Haha no not really, Im just sick of everyone complaining about them and getting robbed and ripped off by them and no one, not even the cops have the balls to actually say it in public. Culture me arse, they're our equivalent of the Roma gypsies, who everyone openly dislikes. Ours have even gone to England and started terrorising them. Its shocking that these people are still allowed to get away with basically anything they want. If genocide is a bit much for the masses then sterilisation is a valid option. But then again I have thought that a controlled part-sterilisation of the human race would benefit the planet and the creatures on it for some time now. Those Chinese were on to something.

Born to Die

**Vai** wrote: »

Hey Adolf was a pretty intelligent guy! Haha no not really, Im just sick of everyone complaining about them and getting robbed and ripped off by them and no one, not even the cops have the balls to actually say it in public. Culture me arse, they're our equivalent of the Roma gypsies, who everyone openly dislikes. Ours have even gone to England and started terrorising them. Its shocking that these people are still allowed to get away with basically anything they want. If genocide is a bit much for the masses then sterilisation is a valid option. But then again I have thought that a controlled part-sterilisation of the human race would benefit the planet and the creatures on it for some time now. Those Chinese were on to something.

I would like to meet you, and discuss your ideals in person.

**Vai**

Born to Die wrote: »

I would like to meet you, and discuss your ideals in person.

Thats not creepy at all.

Born to Die

**Vai** wrote: »

Thats not creepy at all.

Not creepy enough for you?

**Vai**

Born to Die wrote: »

Not creepy enough for you?

No but keep going.

Born to Die

**Vai** wrote: »

No but keep going.

You'd like that, wouldn't you.

grindle

Born to Die wrote: »

I would like to meet you, and discuss your ideals in person.

Worst 'vague threat' I've ever read.

BtD, anybody's ideal world is a fascist dictatorship, dictated by the rules in their brain.

The fact that you want to "meet up" with such people and "discuss" their "ideals" (in order to make them see the light, I suppose?) makes you just as bad.

Born to Die

grindle wrote: »

Worst 'vague threat' I've ever read.

BtD, anybody's ideal world is a fascist dictatorship, dictated by the rules in their brain.

The fact that you want to "meet up" with such people and "discuss" their "ideals" (in order to make them see the light, I suppose?) makes you just as bad.

You assume a lot. Poster got the joke. You didn't.

grindle

Born to Die wrote: »

You assume a lot. Poster got the joke. You didn't.

Damn.

Nodin

IrishAm wrote: »

Does anyone actually have any solutions to the problems?

How can the Irish state successfully integrate the travellers into society?

Make sure people don't burn down their houses and walk out of schools they attend for starters.

Freddie59

IrishAm wrote: »

How can the Irish state successfully integrate the travellers into society?

Maybe if they tried behaving normally. Which will be never. here in Waterford, a purpose-built "social housing scheme" (halting site complete with caravan bays, etc) was built adjacent to two new council and private estates. The adjacent fields have been occupied by horses, various rubbish, and filth.

Only on Friday last, a group of around 15 vans and caravans invaded this area for the umpteenth time. The hard-pressed local residents are, understandably, furious.

I went for a walk on the outer Rng Road today and was greeted by the sight of a sulky being raced along the FOOTPATH. Dog owners are (rightly) fined if their dog defecates and it is not cleaned up. But this crowd can have a horse shyte everywhere and nothing is done about it?

There is no integrating them until they start obeying the same laws and observe the same cultural norms as ordinary people do. But while there are people prepared to defend the actions of these people then little will change.

Monty Burnz

Freddie59 wrote: »

Were it not for the IRA the Catholics in the North would have been ethnically cleansed before the term even existed. For all their sins they are owed some gratitude.

Not really relevant, but couldn't you say the exact same about the British army in NI who protected Catholic enclaves?

nicechick!

I am all for protecting the most vulnerable in society, I was raised to be respectful of others & to avoid judging others but acknowledge that people do things differently. I have morals & values that I live by and accept that not everyone shares mine.

I choose to live my life by working towards my goals and work hard to achieve this however I admit selfishly that NO I would not want a traveler family living anywhere near me because though I try not judge others and politely its not always easy!! I have

Working in retail has given me a sheer dislike for the majority! I say majority as I understand that there is a smaller minority that want to live peacefully without judgement that I have on them, they more anything need us society to help them not judge them but is that easy HELL NO!

WHY!

I am forced to spend hours & hours watching footage wasting Garda & my time causing disruption to my personal life & professional life

Every single day 7days a week I have to politely, professionally deal with vial abuse from being called ugly, four eyes, fat, b!tch and much more. I have had things thrown at me, spat at and abused for what protecting the interests of the business firstly from not only taking product, damaging it but more importantly standing in the way of me making my customers experience a good one! I have a duty of care to customers & my team making sure the employees can work in safe, comfortable, happy environment so they too can do there jobs is nearly impossible! They too suffer the same abuse. They are driving more business away then that in which they take at this stage. All this I might add from children ranging from 2years & up not adults there young there children! I have a child reciting the law to me, there rights in society what I should be doing! I can only imagine what it would be like to live next door to them

I have always dealt with travelers politely and have had some very good experiences there all after all people! but I don't much if little in return

I get so upset from watching a child trying to shove a bottle of lucozade down his or hers trousers! I get frustrated as that child deserves so much more. I believe its sheer child abuse that the adults teach there young children that this behavior is acceptable that its ok to shout & hurl abuse at someone! I get upset as those adults aren't teaching there children anything other then the fact that there children will share the same faith in future they will be judged & ridiculed by us society and face.

The government/society has pumped millions if not billions into housing, services, educational services, health care and more to allow them to live happy healthy futures I have no issue with this I too avail of these services I have been afforded an education & supported so while doing so but I give back every single day in my own way!

but what do we ask in return? they need to change there attitudes towards us, they need to meet us half way, they need to start by using the services provided for them to allow there children a happy future yet what to we get from what I can see absolutely nothing!

Rant over!

Freddie59

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Not really relevant, but couldn't you say the exact same about the British army in NI who protected Catholic enclaves?

They had to wait a very log time for that Monty.

Freddie59

nicechick! wrote: »

I am all for protecting the most vulnerable in society, I was raised to be respectful of others & to avoid judging others but acknowledge that people do things differently. I have morals & values that I live by and accept that not everyone shares mine.

I choose to live my life by working towards my goals and work hard to achieve this however I admit selfishly that NO I would not want a traveler family living anywhere near me because though I try not judge others and politely its not always easy!! I have

Working in retail has given me a sheer dislike for the majority! I say majority as I understand that there is a smaller minority that want to live peacefully without judgement that I have on them, they more anything need us society to help them not judge them but is that easy HELL NO!

WHY!

I am forced to spend hours & hours watching footage wasting Garda & my time causing disruption to my personal life & professional life

Every single day 7days a week I have to politely, professionally deal with vial abuse from being called ugly, four eyes, fat, b!tch and much more. I have had things thrown at me, spat at and abused for what protecting the interests of the business firstly from not only taking product, damaging it but more importantly standing in the way of me making my customers experience a good one! I have a duty of care to customers & my team making sure the employees can work in safe, comfortable, happy environment so they too can do there jobs is nearly impossible! They too suffer the same abuse. They are driving more business away then that in which they take at this stage. All this I might add from children ranging from 2years & up not adults there young there children! I have a child reciting the law to me, there rights in society what I should be doing! I can only imagine what it would be like to live next door to them

I have always dealt with travelers politely and have had some very good experiences there all after all people! but I don't much if little in return

I get so upset from watching a child trying to shove a bottle of lucozade down his or hers trousers! I get frustrated as that child deserves so much more. I believe its sheer child abuse that the adults teach there young children that this behavior is acceptable that its ok to shout & hurl abuse at someone! I get upset as those adults aren't teaching there children anything other then the fact that there children will share the same faith in future they will be judged & ridiculed by us society and face.

The government/society has pumped millions if not billions into housing, services, educational services, health care and more to allow them to live happy healthy futures I have no issue with this I too avail of these services I have been afforded an education & supported so while doing so but I give back every single day in my own way!

but what do we ask in return? they need to change there attitudes towards us, they need to meet us half way, they need to start by using the services provided for them to allow there children a happy future yet what to we get from what I can see absolutely nothing!

Rant over!

Another one of those urban myths you'll be told.;)

Hitler_is_gas

I can't blame them anywhere traveller sites have been erected, there is always trouble. Most travellers are a vermin on society, they steal, cause trouble and are just a lower form of life in general.


Mod, poster banned

Technocentral

Hitler_is_gas wrote: »

I can't blame them anywhere traveller sites have been erected, there is always trouble. Most travellers are a vermin on society, they steal, cause trouble and are just a lower form of life in general.

Spoke like a true Neo Nazi.

nicechick!

Freddie59 wrote: »

Another one of those urban myths you'll be told.;)

Too right oh well I'm over it I enjoyed having a wee rant!

shangri la

Little knackers (10-15 years) with an iron bar trying to smash open parking meters in inchicore this morning.

fat fcukes so i doubt its a case that they are doing it to buy food.

nothing can be done to them because of their age the crime is not bad enough to send them to a young offenders institution.

somebody says something to them these little scumbags would swing for your head with the bar no doubt and if you defend yourself they will end up sueing you.

times like that I want to drive the boot in. Only education they understand!

Username99

They do not want to integrate into society, their whole culture is based on stealing, codding, not conforming to society's rules etc...

They for the most part (97.5%) are scum.

They play the racial discrimination card as soon as anyone turns the heat up. I know there are problems within in the settled community too, but it is vastly more diluted.

Anyone who disagrees with my above statement, I challenge you to convine me otherwise by answering the following four questions:

1.) How is it that most travellers are on the dole but drive around in brand/nearly new vans, cars and Jeeps?

2.) What is the percentage of settled people who are committed to prison compared to the Traveller population. I gaurentee there are alot more travellers per head who end up serving time?

3.) What good have you seen travellers do on a first hand basis compared to what bad you have seen them do?

4.)What do travellers offer modern day Irish society?

Meow_Meow

**Vai** wrote: »

Hey Adolf was a pretty intelligent guy! Haha no not really at all,

FYP...

**Vai** wrote: »

If genocide is a bit much for the masses then sterilisation is a valid option. But then again I have thought that a controlled part-sterilisation of the human race would benefit the planet and the creatures on it for some time now. Those Chinese were on to something.

:rolleyes: Can't imagine why the masses would react adversely to genocide, but then again, I don't take inspiration from oppressive Communist regimes...

**Vai**

Well actually Hitler was a very intelligent man, if you knew more about the subject Im sure you'd agree. I of course dont agree with his ideas or actions but that doesnt diminish his intelligence.

As for taking inspiration from Communist regimes...no I dont. Some of my ideas may be similar because Im logical and forward thinking, if a little harsh sometimes but Im not confusing emotion with what needs to be done to have a more peaceful society. Its all very easy to be emotional and disgusted by things I and others have said on here but I dont see any better ideas, certainly not from the government. The whole integration thing has been tried and they, as a people have failed. They continue to fail everyday in more and more violent ways and will keep ramping it up because no one in this country will come out and say what needs to be said in case they get called a racist. Most of them have no moral compass or values and traveller or not, those are traits I cant accept.

That girl who posted above isnt the only one in retail who gets abuse from the scum. My OH is constantly telling me stories of how low they sink in retail situations. They steal as often as possible and then load it all into their nice new Hiace and ride off into the sunset. We've tried bing nice and it hasnt worked, they just take advantage like any other parasite so maybe a change of tune is needed. You dont have to like what Im saying but I, as much as humanly possible, try to deal in facts.

Dan133269

**Vai** wrote: »

That girl who posted above isnt the only one in retail who gets abuse from the scum. My OH is constantly telling me stories of how low they sink in retail situations. They steal as often as possible and then load it all into their nice new Hiace and ride off into the sunset. We've tried bing nice and it hasnt worked, they just take advantage like any other parasite so maybe a change of tune is needed. You dont have to like what Im saying but I, as much as humanly possible, try to deal in facts.

this bit cracked me up. Travellers with their golden locks blowing in the wind in their convertible.

Speaking of retail, I have a friend who told me a traveller and her son came into their clothes shop before. Kid kept on at his mother saying he needed the bathroom, she ignored him and eventually told him to go on the floor. Sure enough, worse than imagined, the staff found a hot steaming turd of **** on their carpet!

Meow_Meow

**Vai** wrote: »

Well actually Hitler was a very intelligent man, if you knew more about the subject Im sure you'd agree. I of course dont agree with his ideas or actions but that doesnt diminish his intelligence.

As for taking inspiration from Communist regimes...no I dont. Some of my ideas may be similar because Im logical and forward thinking, if a little harsh sometimes but Im not confusing emotion with what needs to be done to have a more peaceful society. Its all very easy to be emotional and disgusted by things I and others have said on here but I dont see any better ideas, certainly not from the government. The whole integration thing has been tried and they, as a people have failed. They continue to fail everyday in more and more violent ways and will keep ramping it up because no one in this country will come out and say what needs to be said in case they get called a racist. Most of them have no moral compass or values and traveller or not, those are traits I cant accept.

That girl who posted above isnt the only one in retail who gets abuse from the scum. My OH is constantly telling me stories of how low they sink in retail situations. They steal as often as possible and then load it all into their nice new Hiace and ride off into the sunset. We've tried bing nice and it hasnt worked, they just take advantage like any other parasite so maybe a change of tune is needed. You dont have to like what Im saying but I, as much as humanly possible, try to deal in facts.

So Hitler is now going from being 'not really' intelligent to 'very intelligent'? Obviously you have a thing for people with warped mentalities, but thankfully you're not representative of our much more humane general population.

I find it extremely rich of you to criticise others for having 'no moral compass or values' when you're the one wanting to exterminate and/or sterilise the entire traveller population simply by virtue of the fact that they are travellers. There will always be scum and parasites in the world, however this does not confine itself to specific ethnic or racial groups

**Vai**

I obviously should have been clearer in my first post but talking about Hitler generally comes across badly and people like you will immediately compare and contrast when he is mentioned. Again, dont agree with him or his methods.

As for the actual point of this, good for you, your attitiude is optimistic and thats fair enough. Ive consistenly mentioned that its not all travellers, it is other people as well of course, but again you like to see me as Hitler so you're gonna paraphrase. Im happy with my opinions and if there were more like me these scum wouldnt be walking all over us. Difference is you see them as people, my experience tells me that they do not act like people so I refuse to treat them as equal to people.

berettaman

Racism involves the belief in racial differences, which acts as a justification for non-equal treatment (which some regard as "discrimination") of members of that race.
The treatment of travellers has nothing to do with racism in that if any person of any race, creed or colour acted as they did then they would be out of line.

I live in rural Ireland and they know that there is not a Garda for miles and they know that they have the run of the country. They know that they can drive into farm yards and start rummaging through sheds and back yards for scrap. They know they can double park their 2012 reg Toureg Jeeps outside of Post Offices on dole day and get away with it. They know they can claim the dole and not be asked if they have looked for work or be asked about the large new Jeep outside. They know they can trade in markets at the weekend and not have revenue query them about VAT numbers or tax registration or have their Social Welfare cut because of their earnings.

If anyone questions them on their actions then they are accused of being racist and “against the travelling man”. It is a joke. If a revenue official questioned me about a trade I had started I would deem it legitimate, I would have the paper work in order but then I do not have the “race” card to play as I am a white, tax paying Irish man so I don’t have a leg to stand on.

Freddie59

berettaman wrote: »

I am a white, tax paying Irish man so I don’t have a leg to stand on.

And there is your problem my friend.

Meow_Meow

**Vai** wrote: »

I obviously should have been clearer in my first post but talking about Hitler generally comes across badly and people like you will immediately compare and contrast when he is mentioned. Again, dont agree with him or his methods.

Oh gee, sorry- should I have talked about Hitler's wonderful attributes when speaking of his extermination of millions of people? For someone who doesn't agree with his methods, you sure do want to adopt them

Nodin

**Vai** wrote: »

Well actually Hitler was a very intelligent man, if you knew more about the subject Im sure you'd agree.........

Or - as is far more likely - we'd not only still disagree but be amazed at just how wrong you are.

Born to Die

Traveller threads always lead to conversations about Hitler :o:o:o