UCDSU - A def joke

transperson

the protest was not about the gym.
the gym was a focalpoint to highlight the lack of democracy and transpariency in ucd that let 1.65 million be spent on something that did not help students at a time when the government is introducing cuts and the college itself is urging tight belts.i dont think people really care about the gym ,whats done is done.
i agree that it is nessisary for the college to be run in a more open democratic fashion,the staff agree ,most of the lecturers agree and i think most of the students agree and i think most of the people here agree.
thats why there was a protest.


to get away from that and back to the aim of the tread,i say if ye arnt happy do something about it,go out and read some information or even talk to someone in the union[class rep perhaps ,thats what they are there for] and educate yourself,it isnt that hard.if you arent unhappy enough to do anything then does it really matter, i dunno! things are there to be changed.

uberwolf

finance committee? expenditure that size would also have passed through Governing Auth. on which 2 of last years sabbats would have sat. So they must have known about it?

orangerooster

I apologise for the personal stuff I said but im tired of the union-I'm tired of hearing about things that dont affect me in college.Its not like people dying due to a multinational corporation is something I support-I can assure you it isnt but I dont see why the Students Union should keep on about things that just dont affect students lives in the university.After all the students are there to learn not to have politics forced upon them while walking up and down the concourse,around the lake etc.

But besides that I would personally take much more interest in the union if it worked more for the students and not its own outside interests (even though many of its outside interests and agendas are also what I believe) the core of the matter is that its a STUDENTS union not a Colombian Trade Union or a refugee support group.

Im a student of UCD and would appreciate it if I wasnt given out to for not showing an interest in college politics and just getting on with my life in the place.

transperson

i could be wrong on the finance commitee,but there is millions spent every year and i doubt governing authority has to pass every expenditure over a certain amount!

anyway there was a student representative on the finance commitee also.

that is how the news of the 1.6 million got out,a student leaked it.under the rules of GA or FC, whichever, it is forbidden to give out any info regarding the business discussed.this means things are kept hushed up and secretive.

this is why that student risked being thrown off that commitee by leaking this information
.
this is why nothing concrete was known about the actual details of the 1.6 million and hugh bradys lodge until the day before the protest when the college called an emergency meeting to explain all.

this is the type of non-democratic un-open,thing that the protest was about.

but why does it take a protest to be called until the college will say anything at all about things the students should really have a say in anyway?is there something they want to hide, control or what,i honestly dont know.


orangerooster,i agree with you that the union should leave the international stands on politics and concentrate on being a union of the students for the students.and i apologise if i came across as giving out,i certainly did not want to do that.

uberwolf

if they were that concerned re hush up couldn't they just kick the students off the finance comm? an awful lot easier - I mean teh student is hardly there for their experience or anything...

/devils advocate

m1ke

Overall, I think the union are doing a good job. Issues like college spending on Bradys gaff need to be debated. It's actually to students interest to stick our noses into these areas because then we can maximise our own gains.

Other areas such as: the coke ban, workers rights, transparent and democratic institutions etc... are areas that, as a student, I want to see addressed.

There are enough officers in the SU to do it all, maybe some of them aren't pulling their weight.

On a tangent but still relevant to the conversation:
The SU website and discussion boards have failed to attract any internet from the student body. The fact that this UCD board on www.boards.ie is more active then the SU one shows this up totally. There is definitely a need to re-evaluate policy concerning the net, it's been disappointing considering it's massive potential.

transperson

i agree with what mike says about the net and the SUwebsite.but i think it is a good website just underused and those who use it are usually already involved in politics or so it seems.

uberwolf what do you mean?-kick him off for good,but there isnt a student automatically on the finance commitee.this november fergal scully had to write a direct letter to Hugh brady in requesting to get on to the commitee,so we dont even have proper representation on it at all.

DeVore

Macaco wrote:

While I am perfectly entitled to say whatever I like without "declaring" anything about myself, I can definitely say that i have absolutely no "vested interest" in this discussion. I am not an SU officer, an ex-officer or a "candidate" (for what, exactly?). I am a UCD student. I find it odd that I have to "declare" this, while the people who are criticising UCDSU do not. Could you explain this double standard, please?

Certainly. You are perfectly entitled to stand on the footpath and say anything you like. But on this site, which I pay for, I'm God. Now, as it happens I'm a very nice god, one that is firmly in favour of freedom of speech (if I wasnt interested in many varying opinions, why the hell would I create this sort of site!). But I'm still God.

Now over the years I've had my benevolence abused by people with vested interests. Everything from the marketing director of a major telcos pretending they cant get service from their opposition to civil servants and others pretending that they are anonymous. So we have a policy of full disclosure. ie: if you are involved in something that materially affects the discussion you should declare that. Its on the honour-system but since I'm God, as I think I've mentioned, I've created a special place in hell for people who lie to me about this... The last one lost her job.

The rules are that the admins must know your connection but you neednt declare it publically.

So, I'm glad we've cleared that up that you have no connection with the SU in UCD and are just a regular Joe-Student who happens to be interested.

God.

uberwolf

what I mean is, if the college didn't want a student on that committee they could sort it out pretty quickly I'm sure. Meaning that if they wanted to be 'untransparent' they could have been.

Now I have heard some very funny things about the decision re: Bradys gaff in particular but they are unsubstantiable so I won't go into that.

Point is they didn't want 'us' to know - we wouldn't because our presence is probably more of a courtesy than anything else

Macaco

orangerooster wrote:

I apologise for the personal stuff I said but im tired of the union-I'm tired of hearing about things that dont affect me in college....after all students are in college to learn not to have politics forced upon them while walking up and down the concourse,around the lake etc.

I want to clear up a few very common misconceptions here. Firstly, every campaign that the union has embarked on this year has been totally worthwhile, and I cant think of any that don't affect students.

orangerooster wrote:

But besides that I would personally take much more interest in the union if it worked more for the students and not its own outside interests... the core of the matter is that its a STUDENTS union not a Colombian Trade Union or a refugee support group.

Secondly, if you think that it was the SU that started up the Coke campaign, then you are mistaken. The people who started it were UCD students. The SU constitution allows for any students to call a referendum on any issue they wish, as long as they can collect 800 signatures by a certain date from people who want a referendum to be held.

The students in the Coke campaign did so, and so the union was constitutionally required to hold a referendum on the subject. It would still have been constitutionally required to do so, even if the union officers had not been supportive of the campaign. The students of UCD came out in their thousands and overwhelmingly ratified the proposal to boycott Coke, in one of the biggest turnouts in UCD's history. So take the issue up with them, not with this year's union.

orangerooster wrote:

Im a student of UCD and would appreciate it if I wasnt given out to for not showing an interest in college politics and just getting on with my life in the place.

Bri wrote:

It's no surprise to me that the SU board is drying up. Why would anyone in their right mind feel like starting an open criticism of the SU when the constant image we see is vocal left-wing protesters...just waiting to shout you down.

I think that both of you have it backwards. It is not the people who dont care about politics who get given out to. If you had ever canvassed people on the street, or gone door to door with some campaign, you would realise that its the people who actually care enough about making a difference that they actually give of their time and energy to get involved -they are the people who get "given out to". Its as true of this thread as it is of anywhere. Apathy is safe. Its only when people care enough to get involved that they find themselves being "shouted down".

Oh and as for the SU boards in UCD, its definitely not "drying up". Its growing all the time. And its the most active and vibrant its been since i started college (though not as much as these boards).

Seraphina

/me pokes Macaco

did you somehow miss DeVore's rather obvious announcement about you posting?
i don't particularly like that kind of **** either, claiming you have no vested interests in the SU when you're a council member.
now i think even less of the SU than i did before, and that wasn't too much.

m1ke

Oh and as for the SU boards in UCD, its definitely not "drying up". Its growing all the time. And its the most active and vibrant its been since i started college (though not as much as these boards).

The 'Boards.ie UCD board' is very new(if I remember correctly only a few weeks old?). The SU has had some sort of board presence for almost 2 years now?(i'm not sure how long exactly, but much longer then boards.ie). People in the union should accept that there are flaws here and think about how they can improve the situation.

Also stuff on the main website is always very serious, which is kewl but - why not have a few light hearted/misc/interesting news on there to get more people involved.

Cecilia

"

To those people who say that they have sent me e-mails I never replied to are simply not telling the truth. If you send me an e-mail I will answer it and have done for everyone in the past. If you don't get a reply ring me rather than going to a message board to shout unsubstantiated accusations. My mobile or land line numbers are all over ucdsu.net"

Eh, Fergal, I am telling the truth and I can actually prove it, as I still have emails sent to you in my 'sent box'. You never replied. I shall not need to email you again though, I have since found out the answer to my questions from someone else. So before you go making false allegations again, maybe you should get YOUR facts right.
On a final note I do think you're a good student President working hard for the students, despite the fact you don't reply to student emails.

DeVore

Macaco wrote:

While I am perfectly entitled to say whatever I like without "declaring" anything about myself, I can definitely say that i have absolutely no "vested interest" in this discussion. I am not an SU officer, an ex-officer or a "candidate" (for what, exactly?). I am a UCD student. I find it odd that I have to "declare" this, while the people who are criticising UCDSU do not. Could you explain this double standard, please?

Why is it so surprising to you that some people on these boards actually approve of this SU? After all, the president won the election by a landslide, sweeping all but one of UCD's faculties...

If you think I'm susceptible to "legal loopholes" of the "I was holding my fingers behind my back" or "you didnt ask if I was a council member" type then you are seriously wrong. You knew what I meant.

I'm happy to be judged on this. You are to leave. Any one else with a vested interest had best PM me or announce it here. There is little that annoys me more.

DeV.

Fergalscully

Cecilia wrote:

"Eh, Fergal, I am telling the truth and I can actually prove it, as I still have emails sent to you in my 'sent box'. You never replied. I shall not need to email you again though, I have since found out the answer to my questions from someone else. So before you go making false allegations again, maybe you should get YOUR facts right.
On a final note I do think you're a good student President working hard for the students, despite the fact you don't reply to student emails.

Thanks for the complement Cecilia but I have to say sorry Cecilia your allegation is simply not true any e-mails I get i answer in fact it takes about 2 hours every day to answer them all as you can imagine there is large amounts from 22,000 students. Once again I say rather than posting allegations on the web why don't you phone me if you don't get a reply does it not cross your mind that maybe just maybe there may have been a problem with that particular e-mail.

DeVore

SMTP (the transport protocol on which mail "travels") may be very reliable, but its by no means infallible. Or he could have over looked it by mistake, or deleted it by accident thinking it was spam. The specifics arent particularly enlightening. The bigger question and more interesting to us all I'm sure is what can/should the union be doing for the students and why is this board a lot more active then the SU which has been running longer.

DeV.

uberwolf

I for my part had a chat with Fergal yesterday. I do know him to be very dilligent and was adamant that he wouldn't 'ignore' a mail from a student. I believe him because of the experience's I've had in the past with him. Cecilia I'm confident your experience was isolated and very unlikely to be repeated.

For my part I work for the college paper, which is independent from the SU editorially, so I have worked close by with Fergal for a couple of months - although for some bizarre reason he doesn't like us looking over his shoulder the whole time

I am amused though by the cry of foul play from the union when a message board out of their control has a conversation about them - whilst of course they are entitled to complain, their manner of doing so doesn't seem to have inline with the standard on this site as I didn't receive any communication on the topic - other than my brief chat with Fergal yesterday. I have seen far worse allegations on their boards and a far bitchier method of debating. Personal attacks are par for the course and pass editorial control there that would not here. Of course that depends on who is being attacked. That may in part answer your question DeV.

antrophe

I can understand some of the frustrations people have with the site, and fully accept them. But to be fair in using a system like the one the site is based on, we basically created a blank sheet of paper for people to add their own content to.

So if a certain clique are producing more content then of course, its going to be swayed one way. I'd love to see some lighter stuff written for it, ents reviews and so on. So if people want to see that: then why not write it?

Superman

Yeah i think its time the SU proved itself to the students, things like banning coke etc are all great but there a thousand an one other issues that the SU could occupy themselves with , especially things like semesterisation, They should really lobby so that courses have to have tests in the same term there tuaght,
This year I will have about 9 papers in summer and only 2 at Xmas, That ain't right epecially when two of the course I will be completing this term won't be examined till summer.
Call me selfish but that's alot more important than the coke ban!
I really don't think it should be the mandate of the SU to save the world, leave that to UCD global action etc.

Fergalscully

Hey Folks,

I'd just like to say a few things
On the Coke ban
Coke was banned from SU shops only. You can still get it in loads of places on campus from vending machines, hilpers, forum bar etc.........
Coke was banned last year by the students of this university not by this years union so stop going on about it. ( I still support the ban personally but that nolonger maters if I wanted to bring back coke I would have to hold a referendum in order to ask you the students of UCD to bring it back)

On semesterisation all first years coming in next year will be semesterised that means exams at christmas. Question do you the students support that?

On why people choose to use this board rather than our boards I have no idea. Our boards are almost identical apart from the author of a post being able to edit that post. (I must look into this on our site). All I know is that the website is more active than ever before. We had no website at all for large parts of last year and a pathethic website the year before that. So I am proud of that. The beauty of the site is you can write your own pieces on whatever you like and have then published on the main page stick a few pics on it we'll make it a feature (theres even a prize for best story written by a non union employee or officer before the end of term.) I've no problem with people using other boards and I'm only on this thread because someone posted a link to it on the unions boards.

As for me not liking the Observer looking over my shoulder thats a bit of an over reaction. I got a bit fed up of the freshers guide appearing in every issue for the first 6 weeks or being misquoted and made my feelings known. Thats life you have a disagreement and you get over it. I still do interviews for the paper quite happily and take any criticisms doled out on the chin. I did sort out with them to do one big interview an issue because I was too busy to do every prospective journalists interviews.

Folks thats all from me for now if you want to get in touch please do I won't be back to this thread anymore cos I'm too busy with the union site which I check regularly so if you have any probs ideas or criticisms please either mail or phone or stick a post up on the boards of UCDSU.net contrary to popular belief I do want to know what everyone wants.

All the best

Red Alert

Personally, whilst I agree with much of the SU's adgendas (e.g. anti-war etc.) I think many of them do not have a place in the functioning of a Student's Union (we are not the Irish Anti War Movement, they already fulfill that role quite well). At the bottom of it all, I don't think Fergal is a bad guy at all - I just wish he'd stick to real student issues. However, compared to Fungus Hourihane one could only call him flawless. As someone who wants to continue as postgrad and possibly as a postdoc/lecturer, i really would hate if private corporations did a "Quinn-school"-type job on the campus and I do think the SU are highlighting that very well. If they just dropped the other stuff it would be great.

Syth

I was talking to the IT/Communication officer today and he said that Fergal was asking him about trying to undelete emails. They may have been why they were;n't getting through.

I agree with Red Alert. The current SU do believe in somethings taht I believe in but they just focus exclusivly on them, when there are many more things to do.

For example what about hot food in the science canteen? That was taken away this year for some silly clearly false reason, a petition was started and people signed it. The SU noticed there was people in science and had a public meeting. They have done nothing else.

Superman

Fergalscully wrote:

I'd just like to say a few things
On the Coke ban

On semesterisation all first years coming in next year will be semesterised that means exams at christmas. Question do you the students support that?

Yesy, fergal, I think it tells you alot about the SU when the main thing people asscoaite it with is banning coke, Don't get me wrong banning coke was bril.
Also i love the way you answered my question with a question! You are clearly suffering from the symptoms of politics!

But enough about the SU being useless, I think its time I changed **** myself,How does somebody go about running for president/education officer for next year?

uberwolf

Fergalscully wrote:

Hey Folks,

As for me not liking the Observer looking over my shoulder thats a bit of an over reaction.

On this point alone I must emphasise - I was absolutely being tongue in cheek. I'm sorry for any confusion.

Chinafoot

DeVore wrote:

what can/should the union be doing for the students

well theres one teeny tiny little thing that really irritates me when it comes to Ents......posters only being put up on the day of the events. and yea i understand that maybe some gigs were organised last minute, but come on people! we dont all live on campus or close-by. i have to travel over and hour and half to get to college (as do plenty of other students) so a bit of notice to sort out money and getting home after a gig would be nice.
and where are all these wonderful things promised by cashman? the classical music, the lunchtime theatre thingies?? theres a distinct lack of fun on campus this year.

as for Brady's gaff.....if the talk of a gym is simply a rumour then i'd be even more interested to know where all that money went. €1.6 million?? was it a delapidated shack or something? that was a ridiculous amount of money to spend, gym or no gym, and it sickens me that he was allowed to do it....even more so when i go to the library and can only find books dating back to the 1800s and that havent been on loan since the 70's. 'tis not right i tells ya!.....and then they wonder why our college is nowhere to be seen on these lists of the worlds best universities :rolleyes:

its this kind of crap that the union is there for. and yes i am aware that there was a protest in Brady's garden but perhaps more needs to be done?
/rant

Superman

peachypants wrote:

was it a delapidated shack or something?

A mate of mine has lived near ucd for years and said I was kinda delapidated, it had a few tables in it and was called as study hall.
still tho all that money is a bit bogey

killbillie

Superman wrote:

Yeah i think its time the SU proved itself to the students, things like banning coke etc are all great but there a thousand an one other issues that the SU could occupy themselves with , especially things like semesterisation, They should really lobby so that courses have to have tests in the same term there tuaght,
This year I will have about 9 papers in summer and only 2 at Xmas, That ain't right epecially when two of the course I will be completing this term won't be examined till summer.
Call me selfish but that's alot more important than the coke ban!
I really don't think it should be the mandate of the SU to save the world, leave that to UCD global action etc.

First of all I am going to repeat what Macaco said, the SU council or Exec did not put forward the referenda for the ban on coke/to remove the ban, it was a UCD student in both cases.

Secondly the SU have put some demands to the uni about semesterisation (eg. all christmas exams to be before christmas not after christmas) but are waiting to see what the college propose before taking an official stance.

Syth

killbillie wrote:

First of all I am going to repeat what Macaco said, the SU council or Exec did not put forward the referenda for the ban on coke/to remove the ban, it was a UCD student in both cases.

I've seen this written and while technically true, many high profile union people last year were involved, whether that was 'in a personal capacity and not as an elected representitive of the union' is irrelevant (in my view you are not 2 people, you are one person), so the coke ban was effectivly run my the union and many people running for election mentioned their activity in the ban.

Kevin_rc_ie

ah i do remember this. very interesting discussion.

snorlax

when i was looking for a summer job last year i decided to email our college union president on the vague hope that he might know of some jobs going around campus or something and i got a really nice reply back offering me a week's work with the SU.
i think its looking after students interests that matters, at least for me. well id care more about that then a coke ban