What's the etiquette in Hospitals or nursing homes when...

MagicMarker

I had the flu once and thought I was going to die, I can't begin to imagine an 80+ year old getting it.

bob50

drkpower wrote: »

Your understanding of how the flu vaccine works?

Clue: it is not effective against all flu strains

No probs so my question is why have the flu vaccine if its not effective against all strains

Also why are so many dying in one particular home from "FLU" ? to me it looks odd

Dudess

Well they were in their 90s, flu is an extremely dangerous virus, at least four of them got the flu jab... so I'm not sure what the animosity towards the home is about.

gordon_gekko

MagicMarker wrote: »

I had the flu once and thought I was going to die, I can't begin to imagine an 80+ year old getting it.

when someone dies old of natural causes , its nearly always due to influenza of some kind , they dont just check out completley out of the blue while well but they have little resistance at that age

Dudess

bob50 wrote:

why have the flu vaccine if its not effective against all strains

Flu jab that's not 100 per cent effective is surely better than nothing?

gordon_gekko

bob50 wrote: »

No probs so my question is why have the flu vaccine if its not effective against all strains

Also why are so many dying in one particular home from "FLU" ? to me it looks odd

it unusual but not anything more , will happen again but perhaps not for a long time

drkpower

bob50 wrote: »

drkpower wrote: »

Your understanding of how the flu vaccine works?

Clue: it is not effective against all flu strains

No probs so my question is why have the flu vaccine if its not effective against all strains

Also why are so many dying in one particular home from "FLU" ? to me it looks odd

Because its effective against some strains!

as for your second point: because flu is, eh, contagious!

hondasam

bob50 wrote: »

No probs so my question is why have the flu vaccine if its not effective against all strains

Also why are so many dying in one particular home from "FLU" ? to me it looks odd

Having the flu injection does not guarantee you will not get flu. It's not unusual when you consider the age and the fact they are in the same home and it's contagious I assume.

hondasam

Dudess wrote: »

Flu jab that's not 100 per cent effective is surely better than nothing?

The flu jab does not stop you getting flu but it means you will usually only get a mild form of flu. I know some companies who get the staff to get the jab.

bob50

Dudess wrote: »

Flu jab that's not 100 per cent effective is surely better than nothing?

I agree as long as it was given

It does suprise me though that 7 old people have died from the flu Given that they were all from the same old folks home and what galls me is our national bradcaster RTE offers this without any question and full accepts what they are told

gordon_gekko

bob50 wrote: »

I agree as long as it was given

It does suprise me though that 7 old people have died from the flu Given that they were all from the same old folks home and what galls me is our national bradcaster RTE offers this without any question and full accepts what they are told

as another poster pointed out , flu is contagious , thier is nothing conspiritorial here , RTE reported it , that was enough , thier is more than enough fuss made about the elderly in this country for every little thing , people will get tired of over indulgence

Dudess

bob50 wrote: »

Dudess wrote: »

Flu jab that's not 100 per cent effective is surely better than nothing?

I agree as long as it was given

It does suprise me though that 7 old people have died from the flu Given that they were all from the same old folks home and what galls me is our national bradcaster RTE offers this without any question and full accepts what they are told

The flu is a killer disease and highly contagious - and particularly difficult to withstand for very old people. I accept that as it's pretty conclusive. Why look for a conspiracy? What should RTE have done? They're not the guards.

efb

I love the "lessons learned" line- its up there with "draw a line" "not make a scapegoat out of anyone" when it comes to accountability.

Mezcita

pixiebean22 wrote: »

I think the point the poster was making about the experience with paying the Consultant €150 for a 10 minute consultation was the fact that this Consultant also gets paid a quarter of a million by the State, not to mention the money these guys command for short consultations to create medical reports for legal cases.

While my point is that these guys skills and expertise are worth every single cent. This argument is a world away from the bankers and tribunal barristers salaries thing.

I also had a ten minute consultation with an upper GI surgeon and was charged the same amount. Subsequently operated on and no problems since.

Put simply they make over half a million a year because they are the best in their profession and have worked for years to get to that level.

Anyway, OT but I thought I would have a quick rant.

gordon_gekko

Mezcita wrote: »

While my point is that these guys skills and expertise are worth every single cent. This argument is a world away from the bankers and tribunal barristers salaries thing.

I also had a ten minute consultation with an upper GI surgeon and was charged the same amount. Subsequently operated on and no problems since.

Put simply they make over half a million a year because they are the best in their profession and have worked for years to get to that level.

Anyway, OT but I thought I would have a quick rant.

im all for rewarding talent but consultants make the kind of money they do because thier profession opperates in a closed shop which is completley sheltered from competition , you dont honestly think the consultant and GP sector is as unsheltered as the likes of the carpenter or hardware store owner market , the sector is highly regulated , numbers are capped

Ghost Train

Dudess wrote: »

The flu is a killer disease and highly contagious - and particularly difficult to withstand for very old people. I accept that as it's pretty conclusive. Why look for a conspiracy? What should RTE have done? They're not the guards.

Maybe some measures could have reduced the spread of the virus inside the home or early treatment with tamiflu reduced the effects

AboutTwoFiddy

efb wrote: »

I love the "lessons learned" line- its up there with "draw a line" "not make a scapegoat out of anyone" when it comes to accountability.

"Lessons learned" would indicate to me that they made mistakes and are taking steps to correct these mistakes. I would wonder why these lessons were not already learned seeing as how all nursing homes have to adhere to strict HSE guidelines.

I would like to see a transparent investigation, the fact that the patients were old does not mean that any establishment can forget about their duty of care to these patients.

panda100

People die in nursing homes and hospitals. Doctors,nurses and carer are not infallible.We, as a society, are still developing when it comes to medical and social care, and we learn from these experiences all the time.

Unfortunately, there are people like the op whom can't see this, and are outraged when someone contracts a virus/dies/gets misdiagnosed in state care. These people are usually fairly litigious as well.

Dudess

panda100 wrote: »

People die in nursing homes and hospitals. Doctors,nurses and carer are not infallible.We, as a society, are still developing when it comes to medical and social care, and we learn from these experiences all the time.

Unfortunately, there are people like the op whom can't see this, and are outraged when someone contracts a virus/dies/gets misdiagnosed in state care. These people are usually fairly litigious as well.

An insatiable appetite for drama too.

AboutTwoFiddy

Anyone that disagrees with my opinion is <insert personal insult here>. Oh look, I won the internetz.

face1990

I used to work on an annual Lourdes pilgrimage, where about 150/250 sick and elderly people travelled out to Lourdes and stayed there for about a week. It's not unusual for a death (or even two) to occur.
When it does, the body is removed quietly and respectfully. Most of the time you only hear about it on the grapevine, until the end of the trip when prayers might be offered up and the likes.

Dudess

The OP and others tried to maintain there was malpractice and a conspiracy, others in the know outlined clearly how that's not the case and supported their assertions well.
What disagreeing with your opinion are you talking about? There was no opinion, there was speculation - and it was overruled. What insults?

AboutTwoFiddy

Dudess wrote: »

The OP and others tried to maintain there was malpractice and a conspiracy, others in the know outlined clearly how that's not the case and supported their assertions well.
What disagreeing with your opinion are you talking about? There was no opinion, there was speculation - and it was overruled. What insults?

Well your little dig towards posters that showed concern was:

An insatiable appetite for drama too.

Yes it's a nursing home and older people are more at risk from viral infections etc, but babies are also part of this higher risk group. If 7 babies had died would people be saying "oh sure they're babies, what do you expect, their immune system isn't as well developed as a child/teenager"? Would they fcuk.

Dudess

That drama comment was more towards people desperate to find a conspiracy theory, not those concerned.
Babies comparison is moot IMO - with very elderly, they're near the end of their lives anyway. Very old people with not long to go, living close together, contagious killer virus - nothing more to see folks, it very much seems.

arodabomb

Mezcita wrote: »

You paid €150 quid to a guy who has trained for at least 15 years to be an expert in his particular area. The very same guy who makes the call about how to treat your particular illness so that you may actually recover from it.

This idea that the wages of highly skilled people should be slashed is just ridiculous. If say, his salary was brought down to 50k per annum he would either:

a. Never train to be a Doctor in the first place.
b. Just become a Consultant in a different country.

If you are not happy with your Consultant go to a different one. If €150 quid is too much to pay for your health go see some quack who never passed an exam.

+1 on this. These guys are highly skilled and are payed so well because there are few people who have the skill and expertise to do it. There is way too much hating on highly skilled people in this country.

gordon_gekko

arodabomb wrote: »

+1 on this. These guys are highly skilled and are payed so well because there are few people who have the skill and expertise to do it. There is way too much hating on highly skilled people in this country.

thier are plenty of highly skilled doctors who would love to get a GP or consultant contract but cannot get thier foot in the door of either closed shop , consultants earn the money they do for the same reason it cost three hundred pound to fly from dublin to london with aer lingus in 1982 , no competition

consultants and GP,s in ireland are the second wealthiest in the world after america , to think this is down to exceptionalism on the part of ireland is redicolous , doctors in ireland have always been shown a huge amount of deference by politicans and people alike

gordon_gekko

AboutTwoFiddy wrote: »

Well your little dig towards posters that showed concern was:

Yes it's a nursing home and older people are more at risk from viral infections etc, but babies are also part of this higher risk group. If 7 babies had died would people be saying "oh sure they're babies, what do you expect, their immune system isn't as well developed as a child/teenager"? Would they fcuk.

are you suggesting that the death of seven babies is no more important than the death of seven people in thier eightiest and nineties ?

Temptamperu

Nursing homes are the pits, I hate going to see me Gran as they are all piled into one room with a radio. At least 40 of them. No wonder the flu is killing them, they're stacked like sardines and that's private care.

ejmaztec

Keeping a low profile somewhere, there must be some guilt-ridden individual who knows that they took the virus into the home in the first place. He or she will have to be hunted down to see how many brain-cells they've got.

Dudess

Couldn't visit my gran (in her 90s) in my aunt's house at Christmas because I'd had the winter vomiting bug a few days before. Their susceptibility is too great.

mattjack

I love going to see my Dad in the nursing home he lives in.He has his own room ,his own wheel chair,Buxton chair and his own wardrobe and cupboard for his possessions.I can visit whenever I like,can even bring in my dog and any friends or family members who want to visit.

He is looked after by both nurses and careworkers and is seen by a doctor once a week.

All his laundry is done for him and he gets regular haircuts and his nails trimmed too.

Since the end of December six residents died in his home, about twenty eight live there in total.... certainly not the same as Nazereth in Donegal, but its not unusual to have clusters of deaths particularly aged 80 plus.You can imagine if somebody is in a nursing home ,most likely they will have some other illness dementia etc and generally have a weaker immune system.

As far as I know the influenza injection is administered with the agreement of the patient and/or his family.

HIQA who now are involved in the regulation of nursing homes..private,public and voluntary have a protocol concerning infectious outbreaks and events.

Within three days is the rule of reporting to the HSE ,regarding confirmation of an infection as far as I know.

mattjack

annascott wrote: »

I drove past Nazareth House last week and was overcome with a feeling of sadness. It felt a little creepy. At work, we were discussing the deaths and could not understand why it was all being kept so low-key. Imagine how anxious you would feel if you had a parent in there. We were wondering if the virus theory was covering for a Shipman style killer...

Are you serious ?

0066ad wrote: »

In my job, i visit 3 to 4 four nursing homes in the week, you would not believe
how dirty some of these places are, it's all clean looking on the service but
under neat it's a totally different scene.

I have seen coal bags used as anti wet sheets, people left in their own body fluids, people tied to their chair. I had to take furniture out of one room, only to be told after wards that the women still in the room had mrsa

If you see people tied to chairs, left in their own waste or coal bags ? being used this way report it.In fact tell me I'll report it.

In cases where people are restrained in chairs its with the specific agreement of family members using a strap to stop them slipping out of the chair.Normally a chair called a Buxton chair is used ,rather than restraining them.

Dudess

Lol at the Shipman thing - that's what I mean by looking for drama/conspiracy...

mattjack

Dudess wrote: »

Lol at the Shipman thing - that's what I mean by looking for drama/conspiracy...

That comment about a Shipman theory...Imagine being involved with Nazerth nursing home through employment or had a relative in it and reading that. Jesus Wep't..

Fighting Irish

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I can never get over how bad our hospitals actually are.
They through money into them during the boom.
I doubt they'll ever be right actually.
The system has been too messed up at this stage.

I paid €150 to visit a consultant recently for 10mins
I've been going a few times over the last 2 years:eek:
The guy is on 250,000 - 300,000 a year from the state alone. Disgraceful really that **** like this can't and won't ever be rectified.

So how much do you think he should be paid?

teddy b123

Fighting Irish wrote: »

So how much do you think he should be paid?

I think they should work on tips or on a no cure no fee basis? :rolleyes:

up for anything

gordon_gekko wrote: »

as another poster pointed out , flu is contagious , thier is nothing conspiritorial here , RTE reported it , that was enough , thier is more than enough fuss made about the elderly in this country for every little thing , people will get tired of over indulgence

Not if you are one of them or someone belonging to you is!

gordon_gekko

up for anything wrote: »

Not if you are one of them or someone belonging to you is!

you cant make policy for individual cases , thier are much bigger pressing and critical issues in our health service than the one featured in this thread

ejmaztec

gordon_gekko wrote: »

you cant make policy for individual cases , thier are much bigger pressing and critical issues in our health service than the one featured in this thread

I would have thought the problem of keeping unneccessary infection out of the equation in all cases is a critical issue in the entire health service. Old people and infants aren't the only vulnerable people in the system. Relatively young people recovering in hospitals from one thing or another, can be finished off by the flu virus, or some other bug that should never have been carried into a hospital.

up for anything

gordon_gekko wrote: »

you cant make policy for individual cases , thier are much bigger pressing and critical issues in our health service than the one featured in this thread

I'm not speaking about making a policy for individual cases. I'm just pointing out that behind every OAP there can be quite a large family of concerned relatives. 50,000 OAPs can make for a very pressing and critical issue for the health service. You can't just write off concern for old folk as over indulgence, or indeed write off concern for any particular group.

drkpower

ejmaztec wrote: »

I would have thought the problem of keeping unneccessary infection out of the equation in all cases is a critical issue in the entire health service. Old people and infants aren't the only vulnerable people in the system. Relatively young people recovering in hospitals from one thing or another, can be finished off by the flu virus, or some other bug that should never have been carried into a hospital.

how do you suggest the flu virus can be prevented from being carried into a hospital or nursing home?

gordon_gekko

up for anything wrote: »

I'm not speaking about making a policy for individual cases. I'm just pointing out that behind every OAP there can be quite a large family of concerned relatives. 50,000 OAPs can make for a very pressing and critical issue for the health service. You can't just write off concern for old folk as over indulgence, or indeed write off concern for any particular group.

im well aware of the politcal muscle which the elderly wield in this country

Dudess

gordon_gekko wrote: »

up for anything wrote: »

I'm not speaking about making a policy for individual cases. I'm just pointing out that behind every OAP there can be quite a large family of concerned relatives. 50,000 OAPs can make for a very pressing and critical issue for the health service. You can't just write off concern for old folk as over indulgence, or indeed write off concern for any particular group.

im well aware of the politcal muscle which the elderly wield in this country

Your lack of elaboration suggests otherwise.

ejmaztec

drkpower wrote: »

how do you suggest the flu virus can be prevented from being carried into a hospital or nursing home?

You can only reduce the risk by getting the message across to flu-sufferers and telling them not to visit people in hospitals and nursing homes. Unfortunately, some people don't think.