Why spend money on a shotgun?

session savage

Another thread got me thinking (not usually a good idea)

Why spend money on a good shotty??
Ive always been a rifle man myself and know that with rifles you need to spend good money on a good rifle and there are lots of things to consider

but

with a shotgun I dont understand what the benefits are of spending huge money on one.
I bought a piece of timber with a pipe attached called a kestrel double barrel and I can bag a pheasant or snipe or duck just as handy as the guy I go out with whos shotgun cost him in the region of 1500.

Dont get me wrong I am not saying theres no point to buying a good shotgun I just dont know why you would. To me they are all just a pipe on a stick.
I'm just curious, I am well happy with my kestrel cause I do 99% of my hunting with a rifle.
Can anyone explain it to me.

Chiparus

Why buy a waterford crystal glass when a paper cup does the job?:rolleyes:

Hunter21

Like a tailor made suit- looks better fits better lasts longer, upmarket guns are made of far better quality materials and better wood.

cushcam

build quality / reliability, quality of materials used / how long it will last, the design and aesthetics of the the gun, weight.

it's like saying why buy a 4-12x50 zeiss when a 4-12x50 hawke will do exactly the same thing

4200fps

cushcam wrote: »

build quality / reliability, quality of materials used / how long it will last, the design and aesthetics of the the gun, weight.

it's like saying why buy a 4-12x50 zeiss when a 4-12x50 hawke will do exactly the same thing

Zeiss will beat Hawke for clarity anyways but do same job. Expensive shotguns are built to last,better balanced,better materials,better triggers,mixed chokes,some have nearly no recoil due to their latest stock designs,most are proofed to fire the heaviest loads also they sometimes can be more elegant.
A reliable shotgun your happy with is all you need. A gun that's fitted to you meeting your eye every time bursting every game bird/vermin that passes your barrels is only what anyone wants.

johngalway

If you don't mind how a shotgun looks, if that shotgun fits you, and if you hit what you point it at, then there's 0 reason to spend big money. It's a personal choice.

tac foley

My shooting pal over in OR, Ernie, collects pairs of English-made shotguns. He has, I bleeve, around a hundred pairs of SxS English guns dating from the late 1880's, when many of the 'modern' ideas in shotguns originated, up to just pre-WW1. After that, he opines, they just get too trickly to correctly evaluate.

I just called him up to see what his least expensive pair cost him [he's old and cranky and doesn't sleep much], and he told me that his pair of Boss 12g, made for the grandfather of the Duke of R******, were not only his most-modern [1912], but had been the cheapest to buy, as a couple of tools were missing at the time of purchase [they eventually turned up, you'll be happy to hear]. They cost him, including taxes and shipping et al, about $45,000 some ten years ago.

His most expensive pair, made for an Indian prince of some kind by Purdey back in 1899, were bought in a bidding war for just over $140,000. But as he notes, they are VERY nice, although they were 'only' worth about $80k or so in the real world. They are quite plain to look at, in the style of bespoke English guns, and he's VERY proud of them. Although, like you, I'm not a shotgun fan, they are truly wondrous things to hold and behold.

He shoots them from time to time, but his gun of choice out in the woods is an older Browning semi-auto, but in Diana grade, of course, made around 1907/8.

If you have the spare funds, and appreciate the very finest hand applied craftsmanship and artistry, then why not go for it?

He might drop dead tomorrow, he notes, but meanwhile.........

tac

4200fps

And a gun that fits you which gives trouble is not worth the hastle so quality and reliability is important. You might pay for that. In my eyes these days you pay for what you get but don't forget Ireland is way over priced for any firearms compared to UK or States. We are told more or less to bend over and get shafted which is wrong. Half the money here will buy same gun new in other country's and some don't realize that. I'd love to see anyone import any firearm at half the price to knock out the middle man.

Hunter21

Some hardcore shotgun fans might object to the price of some rifles too, seen a Blaser rifle for sale awhile back for 4,500. Som people would say an old reliable CZ would do the finest? It would but dear guns cater for a certain percentage of a big market.

Ever drive a Lexus Is200 car? Well when you do you'll realise that's it superior quality driving compared to any Toyota Corolla even though they can all only go from A to B within a speed limit.

ferrete

Hunter21 wrote: »

Ever drive a Lexus Is200 car? when you do you'll realise that's it superior quality driving compared to any Toyota Corolla even though they can all only go from A to B within a speed limit.

personally I'd tak the corollaore economical more lift and fast til about 90 mph and hold the road better while a lexis is sluggish to a 100 drinks petrol hard to tax only up side is it looks good n duffs eg rwd. So in fact corolla better as doesn't take as long to reah the speed limit lol

Cass

An old lad where i used to live had a saying that he would use at least twice a day. "If everyone was the same sure it'd be a fierce boring place".

Never a truer word spoken. It's the reason why one lad goes for a Baikal, but another will only use Beretta. It's the reason why a lad buys a custom rifle with all the bells and whistles, and the other a bog standard factory rifle.

Personal choice.

fodda

Shooting has always attracted a lot of snobbery but all shooting really has to do with is fieldcraft and whether your gun is pointing in the right direction and nothing else.

It is very true that some makes of gun are extremly accurate and some scopes are extremely good in low light and very clear at range, but if you are only shooting in good light and at up to 150 yards at targets over 1" then something else will do if you are good enough. Then if you were really good you could get to within 50 yards or less of your prey and take them down with a .22 and open sights.

With a shotgun it may be hard to believe but that until 25 - 30 years ago most guns had fixed chokes and just as many clays were broken and just as many birds were shot as what are today.

Take it further and just have a cheap 25.00 euro single barrel, then you would have to be a better shot and would have very good fieldcraft skills as you would only ever have just the one shot and it has to count every time.

Longranger

One pair of Purdys please;) no thanks, I'll stick to no mossberg 88:D

kildare.17hmr

My mistral ou with double trigger which cost €250 and is probably the same age as me shoots just fine for me and fits me well, i couldnt justify big money on a shotgun

lb1981

Why not spend it if you have it to spend, of course you can shoot as good with a 100 quid gun as a 3000 euro gun,thats not why you buy it, you buy it because you like it and want it

badaj0z

There are 3 reasons why you spend money on a good shotgun, good rifle or good anything:
1. You like it.
2. You want it.
3. You have the means to get it.
All the rest of the debate is begrudgery

4200fps

Or if a gun was bought for game/clays with cylinder bore with a barrel less than 26inchs is a very expensive gun to run. It be missing the long shots. Good game gun manufactures wouldn't leave you with a poor spec and you find the cheaper shotguns would.

German pointer

My shotgun is an old Breda sxs bought it 2 years ago cost €200 quite happy with it. Great fit and suits me down to the ground:p:p:p

As some of the lads said it personal choice as to what style be it o/u sxs or pump etc. etc. Whatever you want and be happy with it.

Double Barrel

Session Savage

"Ive always been a rifle man myself and know that with rifles you need to spend good money on a good rifle and there are lots of things to consider"

Let me try and understand your query with a question.
Why does one "need to spend good money on a good rifle and there are lots of things to consider ".
What are these things?
Metallurgy?
Handling?
Reliability?
Fit & finish?
Other?


"I bought a piece of timber with a pipe attached called a kestrel double barrel and I can bag a pheasant or snipe or duck just as handy as the guy I go out with whos shotgun cost him in the region of 1500."

I could posit that same line in regard to a rifle, ( target guns and rifles excluded, for now), A piece of timber or synthetic with a pipe attached and I can bag a bunny or a deer just as handy.

Actually easier to accomplish IMO with a "boat paddle" rifle than a "boat paddle" shotgun. Shooting a rifle at game is much more of a deliberate exercise, shooting shotguns at game is much more instinctive.

session savage

Double barrell,

Dont pick me up wrong now, Im not trying to make any point at all here. I just dont actually know what the major difference between an expensive and cheap shotgun are.
However with rifles I have found in my experience that the grouping you can achieve is related to the quality of the rifle and as such good quality almost always means more money.
For example my brother has a .22 magnum that he got for 150 euros and at 100yds he can get a grouping of about 1 foot.. seriously. Whereas my CZ which cost 550 will do a group of around an inch.
I have another friend who shoots a .223 that he got for a few hundred and he uses Wolf ammo which are dirt cheap and at 100 yds he gets groups of about 3 inches, whereas my Tikka .223 which cost 1000 euros with remington accutips will punch tiny little shamrocks at 100yds

In my experience I have also noticed that my 150euro shotgun seems as accurate as my father in laws shotgun which cost well over 1000 euros.

Im NOT trying to say its wrong or stupid to spend money on a shotgun, only saying I dont understand why.

Cass

IMO the extra money for the more known brands comes from their history, and research, and develpemnt.

A friend recently bought a Kral shotgun (semi auto). In the 12 months he had it he sent it away for 3 different items that needed repairing. I had a Beretta Stonecoat a few years ago, that never jammed, broke, etc. It also looked alot better (again IMO).

Now without saying that the higher costing shotguns do not break, i think that with the bigger brands they have more money, and time for R&D. The cheaper ones do not, and run on a "cost" basis to supply a working firearm without costing the earth. So with more R&D the chances of failure or breaking is reduced.

Look at rifles again. If you take a Savage FTR/Model 10 (I've owned these so i'm using experience here). They have a "cheap" stock, and not alot of time into looks, but they shoot like a dream and are as accurate if not more so than other makes of higher prices. However if you put on a better stock, more extras, etc i'm sure the price would increase.

Now apply that to shotguns. You take a Baikal. Have the stock removed, and completely re-fitted with adjustable cheek piece, custom fitting, "tuned" action, sears, firing pins, engraving on the breach, multiple chokes of various designs, etc, etc. It would come close to the price of Beretta too.

Of course there is always the name. I mean you could buy a pair of runner/sneakers from Aldi or LIDL, and buy a pair of Nike from a top sports shop. One costs €20, the other €150. Slightly better design, but alot more R&D in the nike. However both do the same job, but Nike have the "I want it" appeal, and popular name brand so win out.

Longranger

My mossberg 88 is worth,at a push, three hundred quid. It is BOMBPROOF! I have tried to kill it inadvertently since I got it and I can't:D salt water, mud, bog water and christ knows what else, and she's still sound and shoots like a dream. My mate had a benelli nova worth three or four times the price and although it shot well, he still had bother. In the end, he sold it and bought a mossberg 500 and had change for a nice set of camo and a few other bits and bobs. He swears the mossberg is the better gun by far. Easier to clean and in his opinion, nicer to shoot.

Double Barrel

Lets just focus on one part for now.
When we buy shotguns off the shelf there are a few things we as owners and shooters have to keep in mind. Double gun barrels are put together. They are not regulated. They are not shot for Point Of Impact.

They are put together in a jig or fixture that is set up to give a convergence point somewhere from 30 to 40 yards depending on the maker and the gauge. The "convergence" is just the centre line of both bores crossing visually, not where two projectiles would cross because projectiles come in various weights and velocities.

Barrels made with reasonable care will regulate reasonably well. Better than "reasonably well" is expensive. So, only guns with a profit margin that allows expensive hand work will be hand regulated. That said, only the top original quality grades would be subject to such work. Average grades of anyones guns would not be hand regulated.

If you have the money and can specify shot weight and velocity then gunmakers can produce barrels that will shoot anywhere you want them to. Lacking the money the makers do the next best thing which is to line up the tubes visually. Sometimes things don't go so well and one barrel fires up and the other fires to the side. If the divergence isn't much it can sometimes be corrected by muzzle work but that's a bit of a hit or miss, ... much depends on barrel wall thickness and the skill of the smith.

Barrel convergence, even if precisely set at a known distance, can never be more than an approximation.
Plus there are variables. Change the pellet size in your cartridge, change the total pellet weight, change the muzzle velocity, and the exterior ballistics of your patterns change in concert, for better or for worse. If we always shot the same cartridge at a target at the same range, it would not matter much, assuming our shotguns were regulated at that range and with that cartridge. They are not, and that is where pointing error creeps in.

And we have not even touched on the quality of the steel in the barrels yet.:D

meathstevie

Why spend money on a good shotgun ( if you can afford it ) is a question you should realy be asking your grandchildren when they're lucky enough to be passed a quality shotgun.

I bought one of the so called good value brands a couple a years ago. I didn't even get one season out of it before it was literaly falling apart.

Haven't seen that happening to a lot of Browning B25's or A5's or Remington 870's and definitely not to the handmade but inaffordable but for the happy few English and Italian high end handmade guns.

The Big Fella

OP you sound like a man that drives an old corolla.:pac:

tac foley

The Big Fella wrote: »

OP you sound like a man that drives an old corolla Yugo/Lada/Metro.:pac:

Fixed it.

tac

session savage

The Big Fella wrote: »

OP you sound like a man that drives an old corolla.:pac:

ha ha not far wrong

I'd rather spend my money on good rifles...just a personal preference. ..... and theres not a thing wrong with my lada tac. :cool:

meathstevie

session savage wrote: »

ha ha not far wrong

I'd rather spend my money on good rifles...just a personal preference. ..... and theres not a thing wrong with my lada tac. :cool:

Good old Niva, uncle of mine had a banana yellow one in the eighties. The thing drank like Father Jack but was incredibly good off road especially since the fact that you could get them for the cost of set of rims and tyres for a Series III Landy.

It wasn't me!

Personally I've no interest whatsoever in shooting any gun that doesn't feel good and properly put together. That might cost money, it might be reasonable enough, but whatever it costs, it's immediately apparent.

Double Barrel

The Fausti Sisters Gun Factory & The Perazzi Custom Experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O83MwojJX20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9eQFqpnHb0

johngalway

badaj0z wrote: »

There are 3 reasons why you spend money on a good shotgun, good rifle or good anything:
1. You like it.
2. You want it.
3. You have the means to get it.
All the rest of the debate is begrudgery

Good doesn't automatically equal expensive though.