Jones V Evans

johnny_adidas

Evans

Is there any other sports body that openly sponsors an athlete?
Could it be construed as a conflict of interests or does the fact that the athletic commissions handle judging, weigh-ins etc negate that?

Mellor

Evans

johnny_adidas wrote: »

Is there any other sports body that openly sponsors an athlete?
Could it be construed as a conflict of interests or does the fact that the athletic commissions handle judging, weigh-ins etc negate that?

The UFC isn't a sports body, it's a company. They have a sports clothing line now so are sponsoring fighter for exclusive deals. Jones said himself he's aiming towards big brand sponsorship, this is probably a step towards it.

It's not really a conflict of interest as they've no say in the outcome of the fight. Lorenzo said it wasn't the first fighter they paid to wear UFC branded gear.

MrStuffins

Evans

Mellor wrote: »

johnny_adidas wrote: »

Is there any other sports body that openly sponsors an athlete?
Could it be construed as a conflict of interests or does the fact that the athletic commissions handle judging, weigh-ins etc negate that?

The UFC isn't a sports body, it's a company. They have a sports clothing line now so are sponsoring fighter for exclusive deals. Jones said himself he's aiming towards big brand sponsorship, this is probably a step towards it.

It's not really a conflict of interest as they've no say in the outcome of the fight. Lorenzo said it wasn't the first fighter they paid to wear UFC branded gear.

Yup, it'd be like a boxer wearing a Golden Boy tshirt. Although they put on the show, they don't decide the outcome. No real conflict of interest as far as I can see?

Professey Chin

Id love to see a H-Bomb land :pac:

Logical Fallacy

johnny_adidas wrote: »

Is there any other sports body that openly sponsors an athlete?
Could it be construed as a conflict of interests or does the fact that the athletic commissions handle judging, weigh-ins etc negate that?

Plenty of people have seen it as a conflict of interests, mainly because they are ****ing idiots.

Plenty of fighters have worn UFC branded stuff to the ring...no one cared before Jones.

MrStuffins

Evans

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Id love to see a H-Bomb land :pac:

Ugh! I read that in Mauro Renalo's voice

Zero-Cool

Evans

I read how Hendo says he is prepared for Bones. He just needs to stay in the clicnh where he (hendo) is most comfortable. He just needs to watch out for those 'goofy elbows' haha. I'd say Hendo will have the best chance so far but still can't see Bones losing. Must have been so frustrating for Evans to have Bones just hold your hands and then throw an elbow like a jab.

Ush1

Conflict of interest may arise if the UFC has invested alot in a marketable fighter over a period who may possibly lose. They could make conditions favourable for him.

Not saying this will happen but it's a distinct possibility.

MrStuffins

Evans

Ush1 wrote: »

Conflict of interest may arise if the UFC has invested alot in a marketable fighter over a period who may possibly lose. They could make conditions favourable for him.

Not saying this will happen but it's a distinct possibility.

This happens in boxing all the time. Promoter invests heavily in young up and coming fighter, they proceed to feed him can after can after can, making conditions favourable for him.

The same thing? I'm presuming you're talking about easier fights when talking about favourable conditions?

Ush1

MrStuffins wrote: »

This happens in boxing all the time. Promoter invests heavily in young up and coming fighter, they proceed to feed him can after can after can, making conditions favourable for him.

The same thing? I'm presuming you're talking about easier fights when talking about favourable conditions?

Exactly.

It could be problematic in other ways also for instance a good fighter refusing to be sponsored by the UFC as they are getting offered more money by someone else and try to hold them over a barrel.

MrStuffins

Evans

Ush1 wrote: »

Exactly.

It could be problematic in other ways also for instance a good fighter refusing to be sponsored by the UFC as they are getting offered more money by someone else and try to hold them over a barrel.

Well as far as fights go, they have already invested heavily in the fighters! Them being sponsored doesn't add any significant level of interest for the UFC!

Although I can't disagree with your last comment, that sh*t has happened before. Remember they fired Jon Fitch, and threatened to blacklist the entire AKA team, for refusing to sign up to the UFC video game?

http://www.cagepotato.com/total-horse****-jon-fitch-dropped-from-ufc-over-video-game-licensing/

Jason McCabe

For me he is what Fedor was 7 or 8 years ago.

Would love to see him in there with Anderson

babymanval

lolz

jayteecork

lol I wonder can Schaub bounce back from that humiliation?

Ian Whelan

I felt sorry for Che Mills, it was a huge step up in class for only his second UFC fight. I hope they give him another couple of chances to show what he's capable of.

PerrinV2

What do you guys think of the possability of rashad dropping to middlweight?

Ian Whelan

PerrinV2 wrote: »

What do you guys think of the possability of rashad dropping to middlweight?

I am sure that he could easily do it, he's way shorter than the likes of Bisping and it may reignite his career, it's kind of difficult to see a future for him at light heavyweight in terms of challenging for the title again.

adamski8

quite a lot of candian fighters on the card, obviously getting them a fight before the end of year candian triple bill, guess that why it was a bit of a poor card.

Mellor

Evans

Ush1 wrote: »

Conflict of interest may arise if the UFC has invested alot in a marketable fighter over a period who may possibly lose. They could make conditions favourable for him.

Not saying this will happen but it's a distinct possibility.

I disagree.
First of all, they aren't investing in a fighter, there's no return based on results. It's a billboard, not a racehorse. Each fight is isolated so if he keeps wining they keep paying him, if nike, or underarmour approached Jones tomorrow, he'd wouldn't be wearing UFC gear vrs Hendo.

Secondly, if they gave their clothing sponsored fighter easier fights they are hurting themselves far more than any gain they get from a "streak". PPV sales go down, less people see the advertisement, its less effective - they lose out. And that's not even countign the money lost by promoting a poor fight.

Kent Brockman

Jones just looks unbeatable :eek: Seems to be able to handle anyone/anything they throw at him.
Must say I thought that previously about Tito , Matt Hughes and GSP so we will see how this turns out in a few years.

califano

Evans

Kent Brockman wrote: »

Jones just looks unbeatable :eek: Seems to be able to handle anyone/anything they throw at him.
Must say I thought that previously about Tito , Matt Hughes and GSP so we will see how this turns out in a few years.

Aye he will eventually be sparked Herol Graham style but until then he has solved MMA.

preddy

Evans

I cant see a Hendo plodding around with a cocked right hand get close to him, wont do anything but get picked apart.
Jones legs are by far his weak spot, dont know why ppl dont take his legs away from him.

p to the e

Was wondering this myself as after both Rashad and Rampage Jones came out about his legs being sore after the fight. although neither Rashad nor Rampage would be considered big kickers. Rashad was very inactive in the last round and a half which just increased the confidence of Jones. Easier said than done but Evans really needed to get in close to use those fast hands of his. Maybe we'll see a Machida - Evans rematch.

Che Mills was grossly mismatched with Rory McDonald. Joe Rogan was trying his best to make Che to be better than he was but this wasn't a evenly matched fight at all. Rory is a serious contender and needs a bigger challenge.

Couldn't believe Ben Rothwell is only 30. Seems like he's been around forever. He looked in fantastic shape and would like to see him do well again.

Travis Browne has proved he now deserves a step up in competition.

Professey Chin

preddy wrote: »

I cant see a Hendo plodding around with a cocked right hand get close to him, wont do anything but get picked apart.
Jones legs are by far his weak spot, dont know why ppl dont take his legs away from him.

Long crazy arms allow him to catch leg kicks combined with great wresting and devastating GnP (those elbows are terrifying) has fighters very hesitant to try

cowzerp

Evans

preddy wrote: »

I cant see a Hendo plodding around with a cocked right hand get close to him, wont do anything but get picked apart.

Hendo only needs 1, Jones was troubled a few times by Evans and Henderson has serious power, I think Jones better get him out early because eventually Hendo will land and Jones will be in Bisping land.

preddy wrote: »

Jones legs are by far his weak spot, dont know why ppl dont take his legs away from him.

His leg's look thin as he is tall but they're quite thick, Also getting into range to land a good kick leaves you open to counters from his hands, Not saying leg kicks should not be utilised but i don't see them been a major game changer.

Mellor

Evans

preddy wrote: »

I cant see a Hendo plodding around with a cocked right hand get close to him, wont do anything but get picked apart.

I'd expect Hendo to try Clinch and dirty box to eliminate Jones' reach, as opposed to seeking the overhand right.

Ush1

Mellor wrote: »

I disagree.
First of all, they aren't investing in a fighter, there's no return based on results. It's a billboard, not a racehorse. Each fight is isolated so if he keeps wining they keep paying him, if nike, or underarmour approached Jones tomorrow, he'd wouldn't be wearing UFC gear vrs Hendo.

But of course they are, returns are based on results. Better, high profile fighters are more in the public and the kids will want to wear their walkout gear. Messi because of what a good play is can demand higher fees to wear Addidas because Addidas will sell gear because of people seeing Messi with it.

I'm not sure what you mean by isolated? I assume that would depend on the contract that is signed? If the UFC have Jones tied down to wear their stuff for the next five years they have a vested interest in him.

Mellor wrote: »

Secondly, if they gave their clothing sponsored fighter easier fights they are hurting themselves far more than any gain they get from a "streak". PPV sales go down, less people see the advertisement, its less effective - they lose out. And that's not even countign the money lost by promoting a poor fight.

Well that might be the case at the moment as it's a niche sport where fans pay alot of attention. I said it was a possibility, not that the UFC would do it.

As was said it's happened in boxing with can crushers, and I'm sure the UFC wouldn't like fighters refusing their sponsorship if they offered what they would consider a great deal.

Sure look at Kimbo Slice, I'm sure he made alot of money off that type of thing. EliteXC based their promotion around him and sold loads of merchandise off him till he got beat by a can he was supposed to KO.

Loads of my mates who are casual sports fans wouldn't have a clue who Jon Jones is, but they know Kimbo cause they've seen compilations of him knocking out bums. Just saying it can be done with clever marketing.

seadnamac

I think there is an argument for a conflict of interest here. Afterall, it's the UFC who decides who gets title shots, gets put on the main card and who get's put in main events. This also basically decides who gets to be the focus of media coverage leading up to events. Also fight of the night, knockout of the night and sub of the night bonuses means extra coverage in MMA media which is all good for sponsorship deals.

I'm not arguing that the UFC would ever take advantage of it but that's not the point, the possibility alone equals a conflict of interest.

O.P.H

Evans

cowzerp wrote: »

Hendo only needs 1, Jones was troubled a few times by Evans and Henderson has serious power, I think Jones better get him out early because eventually Hendo will land and Jones will be in Bisping land

A lot of people seem to think Hendo walks around with some kind Thor Hammer attached to his right arm, I've him land a lot of clean "H bombs" and by no means do they always go down. With Hendos height and reach compared to Jones, I think he is gonna have an awful time landing anything, especially when Jones will spend the next few months preparing for this type of offence

MrStuffins

Evans

O.P.H wrote: »

A lot of people seem to think Hendo walks around with some kind Thor Hammer attached to his right arm, I've him land a lot of clean "H bombs" and by no means do they always go down. With Hendos height and reach compared to Jones, I think he is gonna have an awful time landing anything, especially when Jones will spend the next few months preparing for this type of offence

Yeah but sometimes they do!







(Sorry, that was just an excuse to post this again, it's so so so sweet!!)

armitage_skanks

cowzerp wrote: »

His leg's look thin as he is tall but they're quite thick,

You can't be 6'4 220lbs with quite thick legs, it doesnt add up.

preddy

Evans

cowzerp wrote: »

Hendo only needs 1, Jones was troubled a few times by Evans and Henderson has serious power, I think Jones better get him out early because eventually Hendo will land and Jones will be in Bisping land.

Yea but look at the difference in the 2 Shogun fights Jones destroyed him, Hendo took and landed loads and no KO.
Hendo just looked slow to me, but with that punchers chance.

Any chance of anyone else getting down to 205 from HW ?

MrStuffins

Evans

preddy wrote: »

Yea but look at the difference in the 2 Shogun fights Jones destroyed him, Hendo took and landed loads and no KO.
Hendo just looked slow to me, but with that punchers chance.

Any chance of anyone else getting down to 205 from HW ?

Roy Nelson :P

The Bored One

Honestly I think to take out Jones, you need someone with a lot of mobility. Someone who can move explosively and fast enough to counter-act the reach advantage. They also need very solid wrestling and clinch work, because getting caught in a clinch with Jones seems to get ugly very quickly. I can't really think of any current LHW fighters that are that mobile and explosive though, especially since Shogun has slowed down so much.
What we really need is a LHW sized clone of Jose Aldo. Uber-Aldo.

leggo

Evans

See the scary thing (for fighters, I've admired Jones since he was on prelims so this is great for me) is, I think even the few weaknesses we pinpoint are overblown.

He seems to be like Anderson in that, at the start of each fight, you'd be forgiven for thinking that he and his opponent are on equal standards, even that there's nothing special to Jones. I'd give the first of his past two fights to Machida and Rashad, for example.

But that just appears to be him figuring out his opponent. Then come round 2 onwards he absolutely dominates, again ala Anderson. So what can we analyse? You might hit him early but won't get a great shot at it and he'll still be fresh so can likely withstand it. You've little to no chance of taking him down. And you're rendered pretty much redundant as soon as he figured out your gameplan, strengths and weaknesses. So there's really no clear road map to beat him except 'land a lucky punch' or 'pray that he randomly forgets how to fight or gets himself disqualified'.

Mellor

Evans

preddy wrote: »

Any chance of anyone else getting down to 205 from HW ?

anyone else?
Who was the first. Hendo isn't a HW. Any current HW that could cut would be insane to.

Deus Ex Machina

Evans

I'm really unimpressed with Rashad's game. The only time I've been close to impressed with his performance was the start of the Rampage bout, and that was because I expected Rampage to be more aggressive out of the gate and put him on the back foot but it went the other way, all credit to him for that. I don't really see how dropping to 185 is going to help him, if anything he'll be more exposed for relying on the clinch and long term is probably less likely to win a title there than at 205 (not that he has a chance at the higher weight either).

MrStuffins

Evans

Payouts

The full list of paydays from the 12-bout card included:

Champ Jon Jones: $400,000 (no win bonus)
def. Rashad Evans: $300,000

Rory MacDonald: $36,000 (includes $18,000 win bonus)
def. Che Mills: $8,000

Ben Rothwell: $104,000 (includes $52,000 win bonus)
def. Brendan Schaub: $14,000

Michael McDonald: $16,000 (includes $8,000 win bonus)
def. Miguel Torres: $32,000

Eddie Yagin: $12,000 (includes $6,000 win bonus)
def. Mark Hominick: $17,000

Mark Bocek: $46,000 (includes $23,000 win bonus)
def. John Alessio: $10,000

Travis Browne: $24,000 (includes $12,000 win bonus)
def. Chad Griggs: $27,000

Matt Brown: $36,000 (includes $18,000 win bonus)
def. Stephen Thompson: $8,000

Anthony Njokuani: $24,000 (includes $12,000 win bonus)
def. John Makdessi: $12,000

Mac Danzig: $54,000 (includes $27,000 win bonus)
def. Efrain Escudero: $10,000

Chris Clements: $12,000 (includes $6,000 win bonus)
def. Keith Wisniewski: $10,000

Marcus Brimage: $16,000 (includes $8,000 win bonus)
def. Maximo Blanco: $13,000

Great to see Jones already making the big money. There have been times when champs building up their profile and reign haven't been making the money they should have.

Very surprised by Big Ben's money. No wonder he was seen to have been fighting for his job!

Mr. Manager

Evans

Che Mills gets 8k for the co-main event?

Sick.

Leeg17

Evans

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

Che Mills gets 8k for the co-main event?

Sick.

Only 2 fighters on the card (1 main, 1 under) would have earned less if they didn't have their $6k win bonus, the disparity between some of the payouts, despite the differing factors (draw of the fight, length of time in the UFC etc..) is annoying imo.

El Guapo!

Evans

That's why you need a good manager to negotiate a decent contract for you. The reality is, if you're relatively unknown like Che Mills then you have to take the lower pay just to get your foot in the door. Then it's up to you to keep winning, and winning impressively, to be in a position to renegotiate the contract. Mills was relatively unknown before hitting the UFC and hasn't had many fights. Chances are he's still on his first contract that was probably a 4 fight deal. The fact that he was in the co-main wouldnt affect that. But he also probably got an extra few quid that isn't released to the public. That plus his sponsors etc would bring his pay check up considerably.
But I do agree for the lower level guys earning 6k +6k, it must be fairly tough after they pay for their camp and expenses etc.

Logical Fallacy

Does anybody know what the deal is with camp fee's?

Do most of them work off a percentage or is there just a straight fee for working with them?

Professey Chin

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Does anybody know what the deal is with camp fee's?

Do most of them work off a percentage or is there just a straight fee for working with them?

Most camps are percentage based at that level. Maybe about 10/15 % (after tax is taken from the listed payout). I remember a huge exodus from Chute Boxe cause they used to be 25/30% or something

Logical Fallacy

Evans

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Does anybody know what the deal is with camp fee's?

Do most of them work off a percentage or is there just a straight fee for working with them?

Bonnar said it's a couple thousand per 8-10 week training camp plus coach expences.
Or if you're Rampage...$1,000,000

bjj-fighter

Edit: Sorry bout that, left my mate alone with the computer, and that outrageous accusation is completely false haha

El Guapo!

Evans

bjj-fighter wrote: »

Im mad gay!!!

Quoted so you can't deny it!

empacher

Not sure

hendo is 4/1 in paddy power to beat jones. weird considering Evans was 5/1 .

Mellor

Evans

empacher wrote: »

hendo is 4/1 in paddy power to beat jones. weird considering Evans was 5/1 .

What's weird, they're giving Hendo a slightly better chance. I would too tbh

empacher

Not sure

Mellor wrote: »

What's weird, they're giving Hendo a slightly better chance. I would too tbh

based on his one superior limb, i don't see it

Mr. Manager

Evans

Leeg17 wrote: »

Only 2 fighters on the card (1 main, 1 under) would have earned less if they didn't have their $6k win bonus, the disparity between some of the payouts, despite the differing factors (draw of the fight, length of time in the UFC etc..) is annoying imo.

I know Mills is sill an up an coming fighter but to be earning so little for such a big fight must be really discouraging.

To be honest, I don't get how the payouts work. Obv the main card always has the most but then you see people like Rothwell getting 50k pre bonus.

I was always under impression (up until a year or two ago) that once you made the UFC you were on crazy money, well into the 6 figure mark.