Why can't school holidays be shorter

Gee Bag

stripysocks85 wrote: »

I'm a teacher, so I obviously DETEST anti teacher threads, but I will make this point -

EVERYONE had the opportunity to be a teacher. So, why didn't you? If it's so damn easy, YOU DO IT!

Because the rest of us have a bit of initative.

stripysocks85

Gee Bag wrote: »

Because the rest of us have a bit of initative.

Ahhh see now you're just trolling to get a reaction. Teachers have plenty of initiative, and I don't have to defend my profession to you, or anyone

stripysocks85

token101 wrote: »

I agree with the OP. I remember being on holidays and hating playing football and crab fishing and just wishing I could be at school learning long division and reading about Pól Péist's latest pointless adventure.

And we already have child labour in the country, it's called potato/daffodil picking. And it's the best f***ing craic ever The Pakistani and Chinese kids could take a leaf from our books and learn to stitch my runners with dedication

What a pathetic comment. The whole lot of it. Especially the latter.

Only in AH! [Seem to be saying that quite a bit today!]

RichieC

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Without having a dig at teachers or anyone else in the public sector, I'd like to suggest that we shorten the school holidays.

Everyone - primary and secondary get the full month of August off (perhaps 3rd level degrees could also be condensed?).

This would:

- Increase teaching time for students
- Increase the productivity of school buildings and other assets
- Increase the productivity of teachers themselves
- Increase productivity of a section of parents during the summer months (childcare, etc)

What are the downsides to this idea??

- More expensive holidays during the month of August?
- any more??

I love the finantialisation of every aspect of our lives. It warms my heart.

Gee Bag

stripysocks85 wrote: »

Ahhh see now you're just trolling to get a reaction. Teachers have plenty of initiative, and I don't have to defend my profession to you, or anyone

I'm not trolling, this is my honest opinion. Teachers lack initative, are unreceptive to any chages in their work practices and are vastly overpaid in comparison to other countries.

You don't have to defend your profession, but there are big questions about teachers level of pay and work practices.

Snowie

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Without having a dig at teachers or anyone else in the public sector, I'd like to suggest that we shorten the school holidays.

Everyone - primary and secondary get the full month of August off (perhaps 3rd level degrees could also be condensed?).

This would:

- Increase teaching time for students
- Increase the productivity of school buildings and other assets
- Increase the productivity of teachers themselves
- Increase productivity of a section of parents during the summer months (childcare, etc)

What are the downsides to this idea??

- More expensive holidays during the month of August?
- any more??

children have the right to be children....


thats means having fun...

I find it disgusting to see kids the age of 9 carrying a travel bag full of books for one day and then on top of that stupid amounts of home work...

Its disgusts me a times the way kids are forced into being adults and an early age... There children they have a right to have fun and stuff not be reformed into some regimented out fit where there expected to be this that in the other...
personally I think kids are at school to much, 4 days a week.. should be enough... with a Wednesday off...

I think what you just said above is pretty much wahst wrong with society in many respects children should be aloud to have as much fun as possible, after all once you hit 25 your in an office 8 hours a day till your 60 hardly living much of life now are we :rolleyes:

RichieC

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I did. They published it under the headline:

"Now teachers claim they need lengthy summer holidays for "essential relaxation""

When it comes to teacher's unions, the headlines write themselves.

yea, and when it comes to reactionary gobshoits, the threads write themselves... :pac:

stripysocks85

Gee Bag wrote: »

I'm not trolling, this is my honest opinion. Teachers lack initative, are unreceptive to any chages in their work practices and are vastly overpaid in comparison to other countries.

You don't have to defend your profession, but there are big questions about teachers level of pay and work practices.

Can you show me proof? You don't know every teacher in the country. You don't know me. How can you make such a sweeping generalisation. At least if you truly think that, edit to say SOME teachers, because you don't know ALL. I am not unreceptive to changes, I have plenty of initiative, and trust me, I am not 'vastly overpaid'. Could show my bank balance to prove that!!!!!

Look, I don't blame you as such. You're just spoon fed by the media, and the media like to cause tension & aggro between people to divert attention from themselves and the government [most of the 'teacher bashing' or public Sector bashing you will see reported on comes from state run companies.

So I don't hold it against you. But at least educate yourself properly first [oh the irony!]

I Heart Internet

stripysocks85 wrote: »

I'm a teacher, so I obviously DETEST anti teacher threads, but I will make this point -

EVERYONE had the opportunity to be a teacher. So, why didn't you? If it's so damn easy, YOU DO IT!

I didn't want to be a teacher. Nor did I want to be a fireman or a librarian or a solicitor or a race-car driver.

Wanting value for money from teachers does not mean we want to be teachers.

stripysocks85

Gee Bag wrote: »

I'm not trolling, this is my honest opinion. Teachers lack initative, are unreceptive to any chages in their work practices and are vastly overpaid in comparison to other countries.

You don't have to defend your profession, but there are big questions about teachers level of pay and work practices.

I agree with this, to a degree.

I can't say too much here, but lazy teachers definitely exist. It's very frustrating and disheartening as generally other members of staff have to put in an extra 20% to achieve things, due to the incompentency of other members. But, lazy people exist in ALL professions. It appears that teachers regularly get the beating of it all though. I agree, something SHOULD be done to target productivity in a way, but it's impossible to do. If it's based on tests and results, the same teachers will end up 'teaching to the test' and getting results unfairly anyway. I understand the aggravation involved, and yes, it IS hard to get a teacher fired, I don't have the answer, but it's unfair to tar us all with the same brush.

Trotter

These threads usually appear during the school holidays when the thoughts of teachers having time off causes great angst.

I'd love to have a general rule of thumb for teacher bashing. You can only do it when you've taught a class for at least 1 hour in your lifetime.

The way I look at it, everyone had the option of being a teacher. Most don't do it because the thoughts of minding angelic little 7 or 17 year old Johnny and his 27 friends and then trying to teach them at the same time doesn't appeal.

They want someone else to go do it, but they want the someone else to do it for crap money and crap holidays.

Ha.. Why would ya? Vocation? Vocation is being driven out of teachers these days. There's whole media programmes being practically dedicated to slating teachers.

As a teacher pal of mine said recently.. 'I wouldn't be a teacher for the time off.. But I wouldn't be one without it either'

stripysocks85

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I didn't want to be a teacher. Nor did I want to be a fireman or a librarian or a solicitor or a race-car driver.

Wanting value for money from teachers does not mean we want to be teachers.

What makes you think you don't get 'value' for money? I work damn hard during term time - I ensure my set curriculum is covered inside out.

Considering the UK have less holidays, I wonder are they any more intelligent or educated because of it? I highly doubt it.

StephenHendry

Id say leave the holidays as they are, i mean you only young once and the best thing about schools , especially 2nd levels is the holidays you get. im sure their parents don't mind spending more time with them anyway

stripysocks85

Trotter wrote: »

As a teacher pal of mine said recently.. 'I wouldn't be a teacher for the time off.. But I wouldn't be one without it either'

This relates to me too. I didn't go into teaching because of the holidays, truly I didn't. However, the way things have progressed, if I didn't have those holidays now I just couldn't/wouldn't be a teacher.

dillo2k10

seamus wrote: »

Here's a better question - why do we pay teachers for a full year's work? Surely it would be better to pro-rate them on the basis of a 9-month work year (paid over 12 months) and allow them the opportunity to earn more during their holiday time? We could do things like insist that referendums and local elections are only held in the summer, and teachers can do that work. And extra curricular activities, lots of them.

Teachers are paid that way.
If teachers work at the elections/referendums they will still have to be paid for the work, so no money will be saved, it just means that those who would have had those jobs in the past now wont.

seamus wrote: »

When I say "pro-rate" I mean, "Compared to averages", I'm aware that the justification at the moment is that "we only get paid for our nine months"
Simple things such as benchmarking a teacher's salary against the national average - let's say a starting teacher get's pro-rated against the national average wage.

So if the national average is €30k, a starting teacher gets paid 75% of that (€22.5k) over 12 months. He then has the option of working his downtime to earn more.

Pay increases are then awarded on the basis of performance, but still benchmarked against the average, so the next year he gets a raise to 1.1 "averages" which will give him take-home of 24,750. If the national average wage drops, every teacher's salary drops in response.

In reality, all public sector/civil service/politician salaries should be linked to the national average so there's no faffing over whinging unions and greedy increments. If economic output drops, the entire public service wage bill drops automatically without strikes or arguments and other bull****. If it improves, the wage bill does too. It's just common bloody sense.

Why should someone with 5 years of third level education be paid the same (or less) than someone who left school at 12 and now drives a bus?

If the pay is too low then high quality teachers would not be attracted to the profession (myself included, I want to be a secondary school teacher, but if the pay falls any further I wont be able to afford being a teacher)

Generally teachers will agree that they should be paid based on performance, however, how do you measure their performance?

I take it you have a ****ty, low paying job?

StephenHendry

Gee Bag wrote: »

Couldn't argue with that,

But I do have a serious problem with grossly overpaid teachers sitting on their holes for months of holidays while getting paid. Teachers whining about cuts in their pay because it is not fair on the children. Teachers not being sacked if they are utterly incompetent ( I heard one of their union monkeys the other day claiming there is no such thing as a bad teacher!) etc., etc.

not all teachers OP, of course the bad well are just bad and probably will remain so. the system is unlikely to be changed very much do the teachers unions being very vocal and influential

OldNotWIse

Gee Bag wrote: »

Couldn't argue with that,

But I do have a serious problem with grossly overpaid teachers sitting on their holes for months of holidays while getting paid. Teachers whining about cuts in their pay because it is not fair on the children. Teachers not being sacked if they are utterly incompetent ( I heard one of their union monkeys the other day claiming there is no such thing as a bad teacher!) etc., etc.

Good point, they were complaining recently about being in a "pay freeze" - there are plenty of people who would love to have their pay frozen and not have to worry about cuts!

stripysocks85

StephenHendry wrote: »

not all teachers OP, of course the bad well are just bad and probably will remain so. the system is unlikely to be changed very much do the teachers unions being very vocal and influential

Haha I disagree with this! They aren't very vocal when they're supposed to be & things get swept under the carpet!! And definitely not influential, but then again, the workers ARE the union really, it's just the 'big' ones at the top aren't always great at leading.

Scráib

I'm no teacher, but most of my immediate family and their friends are so I've grown up around teachers without becoming one myself, and I'll be honest their job is not easy.

When you're teaching you're one adult in a roomful of kids, you have to keep your distance from them because if you try to become their friend you'll lose their respect and you won't teach them anything, so it's a very lonely profession. People don't realise that at all.

Then there's the problem kids, and I'm not talking about the messers. A lot of kids come from families who don't care about them, don't have the money to support them or just plain abuse them. I've seen it happen where the kids latch on to the teacher who ends up playing the role of surrogate parent. I have a vivid memory of my mother bawling her eyes out at home because of the home situation of one of the kids she was teaching. As a job it takes a pretty heavy emotional toll.

One other thing is lot of teachers official work day ends at 2.30-3 but they'll take work home with them (corrections, class evaluations, getting class plans ready etc.) which is something other professions rarely do. For me the office is the office and I don't take work home with me, teachers don't have that option in many cases.

I work in the private sector, in IT. Why? Becuase I tried teaching, and I decided it was too hard for me to do. Also in the private sector I get paid more than teachers.

Am I jealous of their pay? No. They're getting creamed for tax lately and if they weren't I'd still be on more. Am I jealous of their holidays? Again, no because they earn those weeks and months off. Anyway, at the end of the day teachers are there for the kids, and as one poster in here said let them be kids while they're young, they'll have enough to contend with later on in life. Syphilis, for example.

Lawrence1895

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I thought the school day finished earlier in Germany as well?

Between the 1st and 4th class, they end at 12:30 indeed. From the 5th class onwards, it's 2:30 in the afternoon.

Plus, in some parts of Germany, the kids have school every second Saturday as well.

seamus

dillo2k10 wrote: »

Why should someone with 5 years of third level education be paid the same (or less) than someone who left school at 12 and now drives a bus?

Why should 5 years of third-level education mean that someone is entitled to be paid more than a bus driver? Surely someone should have to prove themselves to be good at what they do to qualify for more money?

I take it you have a ****ty, low paying job?

I did when I first left college. At that time I was getting paid less than a bus driver, seeing as you like to use this comparison. But I worked, and I proved myself to a succession of employers and enhanced my knowledge and my experience and therefore enhanced my worth.

You seem to have either not read, or misread my post. Why do you have a problem with a new teacher starting out with an average wage and having to work their way up? Nearly every private professional must do the same thing.

StephenHendry

Scráib wrote: »

I'm no teacher, but most of my immediate family and their friends are so I've grown up around teachers without becoming one myself, and I'll be honest their job is not easy.

When you're teaching you're one adult in a roomful of kids, you have to keep your distance from them because if you try to become their friend you'll lose their respect and you won't teach them anything, so it's a very lonely profession. People don't realise that at all.

Then there's the problem kids, and I'm not talking about the messers. A lot of kids come from families who don't care about them, don't have the money to support them or just plain abuse them. I've seen it happen where the kids latch on to the teacher who ends up playing the role of surrogate parent. I have a vivid memory of my mother bawling her eyes out at home because of the home situation of one of the kids she was teaching. As a job it takes a pretty heavy emotional toll.

One other thing is lot of teachers official work day ends at 2.30-3 but they'll take work home with them (corrections, class evaluations, getting class plans ready etc.) which is something other professions rarely do. For me the office is the office and I don't take work home with me, teachers don't have that option in many cases.

I work in the private sector, in IT. Why? Becuase I tried teaching, and I decided it was too hard for me to do. Also in the private sector I get paid more than teachers.

Am I jealous of their pay? No. They're getting creamed for tax lately and if they weren't I'd still be on more. Am I jealous of their holidays? Again, no because they earn those weeks and months off. Anyway, at the end of the day teachers are there for the kids, and as one poster in here said let them be kids while they're young, they'll have enough to contend with later on in life. Syphilis, for example.

i agree, teaching is a very stressful job, always has been. personally i think the respect towards teachers in general has diminished a lot from the point of view of parents and pupils than what it once was.

Gee Bag

stripysocks85 wrote: »

Can you show me proof? You don't know every teacher in the country. You don't know me. How can you make such a sweeping generalisation. At least if you truly think that, edit to say SOME teachers, because you don't know ALL. I am not unreceptive to changes, I have plenty of initiative, and trust me, I am not 'vastly overpaid'. Could show my bank balance to prove that!!!!!

Look, I don't blame you as such. You're just spoon fed by the media, and the media like to cause tension & aggro between people to divert attention from themselves and the government [most of the 'teacher bashing' or public Sector bashing you will see reported on comes from state run companies.

So I don't hold it against you. But at least educate yourself properly first [oh the irony!]

Quit being so hysterical. Of course I don't know you, and I don't want to see you bank statement,

Your claim that the media spoon are trying to distract attention from themselves and the government is ridiculous. We don't live in China.

You wanted some proof? Well here ya go

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0914/1224304083059.html

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/61/27/48631286.pdf

ejmaztec

Lars1916 wrote: »

Compared with Germany, kids have it relatively easy in Ireland:
10.5 weeks holidays in total (1.5 over Easter, 6 during the summer, 1 in autumn, 2 over Christmas/New Year).
And schools start at 8, instead of 9 in the morning.

Parents/teacher meetings are usually done after school, I guess, teachers are working a bit longer in Germany, too.

German kids have to spend more time at school, so they get more qualifications and higher paid jobs when they leave the education system. If it weren't for this, Germany wouldn't be able to afford to bail the rest of Europe out.

OldNotWIse

kraggy wrote: »

When do teachers plan?
Are teachers just glorified baby-sitters to you?
How do you suggest teachers keep students occupied for 10 hours?
What do you suggest the children eat to sustain them for 10 hours. 16 sandwiches and 12 bananas?

Why should children be cared for by people other than their families?

I'd like to see you attempt to keep a class full of 6 years engaged and then educate them for 5 minutes never mind 10 hours.

I wonder how people as ignorant and presumptuous as you get on in this world.

I agree with you that it is more than a babysitting job but I think when someone asks a genuine question about how a certain profession is run, and proposes changes to it, it's a little immature to start going on about how difficult that profession is. Of course a lot of people on here are not qualified teachers, and could not run a classroom as well as some teachers, but this does not make their opinions less valid. Other professionals don't do this. For example if someone questions the structure of our healthcare system, you dont get doctors wading in saying how wonderful they are that they can diagnose and treat, or putting other posters down because they are not medicaly trained etc. Just a point All professions need a certain level of training (some more than others) but this should not be used as a stick to beat someone in a discussion.

Gee Bag

dillo2k10 wrote: »

Why should someone with 5 years of third level education be paid the same (or less) than someone who left school at 12 and now drives a bus?

If the pay is too low then high quality teachers would not be attracted to the profession (myself included, I want to be a secondary school teacher, but if the pay falls any further I wont be able to afford being a teacher)


I take it you have a ****ty, low paying job?

Congrats on the petty, condescending attitude, you'll go far in your chosen profession.

If you think teacher's pay is low, you should see what highly qualified people are paid in the private sector at the start of their careers.

StephenHendry

seamus wrote: »

Why should 5 years of third-level education mean that someone is entitled to be paid more than a bus driver? Surely someone should have to prove themselves to be good at what they do to qualify for more money?
I did when I first left college. At that time I was getting paid less than a bus driver, seeing as you like to use this comparison. But I worked, and I proved myself to a succession of employers and enhanced my knowledge and my experience and therefore enhanced my worth.

You seem to have either not read, or misread my post. Why do you have a problem with a new teacher starting out with an average wage and having to work their way up? Nearly every private professional must do the same thing.

teaching and the ability to do it well is very important, i mean no disrespect to bus drivers in anyway, i but i would consider teaching a more important role. the second bit about having to prove themselves to be good.. , well that in a nutshell is what the public sector is having difficult with for a long time in terms of proper performance measurement and management systems

micropig

kraggy wrote: »

When do teachers plan?

Not during the summer holidays anyway. time is factored in to their timetable for this.

.

kraggy wrote: »

How do you suggest teachers keep students occupied for 10 hours?

By planning interesting lessons, where children are actively engaged with activities and not just sitting listening to the teacher.

kraggy wrote: »

What do you suggest the children eat to sustain them for 10 hours. 16 sandwiches and 12 bananas?

their lunch????

kraggy wrote: »

Why should children be cared for by people other than their families?

What??

kraggy wrote: »

I'd like to see you attempt to keep a class full of 6 years engaged and then educate them for 5 minutes never mind 10 hours.

I wonder how people as ignorant and presumptuous as you get on in this world.

Easy to keep kids engaged if you plan enjoyable lesson, suited to their interests and abilities

seamus wrote: »

That's not a point, it's a question.

And you've not really demonstrated properly why they should be shorter, except for some misplaced idea that it's better to have teachers doing pointless busy work than taking holidays.

Why does the work done in the holidays have to be pointless busy work? Why can't it be productive work with merit and real learning? why does it even have to be of the same set up as the normal year. Many children go to summer camps etc, schools could provide activities which children, enjoy and learn from, as well as giving the children the opportunity to socialise
.

threads like these really show how delusional and set in their ways some teachers are. Some lack the ability to think outside the box. this may be a knock on effect of going from school - college -teaching, without ever experienced the real world

al28283

I Heart Internet wrote: »

My original point still reamins - Why can't summer holidays be shorter?

points aren't questions

OldNotWIse

stripysocks85 wrote: »

I'm a teacher, so I obviously DETEST anti teacher threads, but I will make this point -

EVERYONE had the opportunity to be a teacher. So, why didn't you? If it's so damn easy, YOU DO IT!

So only members of a certain profession are allowed to question the structure thereof? Really? It's not really a counter argument to say, "well you do it then!" if someone is trying to make a point about something. They are still entitled to hold their opinion, regardless of whether they "do it" or not

(By the way, I have absolute respect for someone who teaches in this day and age. I almost embarked on a hdip myself and lost my nerve at the last minute (much to parents dismay lol) when I thought about having to walk into a class of 20-30 teens and try to impart knowledge - eek :eek: ) so I'm not a teacher basher!

martingriff

Gee Bag wrote: »

Congrats on the petty, condescending attitude, you'll go far in your chosen profession.

If you think teacher's pay is low, you should see what highly qualified people are paid in the private sector at the start of their careers.

I know this is about teachers but I have a degree and a graduate diploma from the University of Limerick and I went for loads of graduate job did not get them go a job here in the Revenue as a Clerical Officer. Even when I get to the top of the pay scale (won't happen as I say it will be changed or abolished soon) I still won't be near the starting sallary for the jobs I went for..

micropig

Oh and the basic rate for a teacher, who works nine months of the year is more than the basic wage for a garda. Does this mean are teachers are worth more than the Garda?


If a bus driver crashes, there is the possibility your child will be dead.....

Lawrence1895

ejmaztec wrote: »

German kids have to spend more time at school, so they get more qualifications and higher paid jobs when they leave the education system. If it weren't for this, Germany wouldn't be able to afford to bail the rest of Europe out.

Don't know, if there is any proof for that, even if the educational system in Germany is highly regarded.

Anyway, kids in Germany get less homework, maybe that cancels out the fact, that they have to stay longer in school.

seamus

StephenHendry wrote: »

i agree, teaching is a very stressful job, always has been. personally i think the respect towards teachers in general has diminished a lot from the point of view of parents and pupils than what it once was.

Teaching isn't more stressful than any other job tbh, and yes I know a couple of teachers.
Some teachers clearly find controlling a classroom of kids to be stressful, and I would suggest that they're in the wrong job. Their peers seem to manage the same groups of kids OK without going off the handle, so I'm going to guess that it's probably an issue with the teacher, not with the kids.

We can all remember from school that some teachers would spend the class in a flap and shouting at kids, whereas the next teacher would come in and it would be a nice, calm and productive session. If you're the former teacher, then it's not that the job is particularly stressful - it's that you're not very good at it.

As I say, I know a few teachers. They get some of the ****ty aspects of dealing with the public - asshole parents and asshole kids - as well as having to spend some of their time outside school setting classplans and tests and correcting same. But on balance, they get other perks; short work days with plenty of breaks. On the face of it, a teaching job even without the long holidays is no more difficult than most other jobs. I wouldn't exactly be pulling out the "I have a tough job, I deserve to be highly paid" card.

I Heart Internet

stripysocks85 wrote: »

What makes you think you don't get 'value' for money? I work damn hard during term time.....

There you have it. You've answered yourself. You presumably, don't work at all outside of term time.

stripysocks85

Gee Bag wrote: »

Quit being so hysterical. Of course I don't know you, and I don't want to see you bank statement,

Your claim that the media spoon are trying to distract attention from themselves and the government is ridiculous. We don't live in China.

You wanted some proof? Well here ya go

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0914/1224304083059.html

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/61/27/48631286.pdf

From the first article
The survey – based on 2008 data – does not take account of the public service pay cut (6 per cent) and the cut in pension payments (7 per cent).

Which considering we're now 1/3 of the way through 2012, renders those findings obselete in my book.

Also I asked you to provide proof on more than teacher salaries, I already know how much they get paid thank you, seeing as I am one!!!

billybudd

Whats wrong with asking questions? some teachers are being very defensive here.

And to those people who think children should be children and deserve the few months off during the summer therein lies the problem, children should not look on school as a jail and that every year they should be released for a few months to have ''fun'' oh no school should be fun, interesting, educational and above all else a positive atmosphere, sadly too often old views still hold true and creativity and open mindness is stifled at a young age.

I must say not one teacher on here has given a worthwhile answer to why it is not a good idea and what reasons why it is not a good idea, just the usual defensive guff, including petty remarks about low paid workers to name but one crude remark.

stripysocks85

I Heart Internet wrote: »

There you have it. You've answered yourself. You presumably, don't work at all outside of term time.

Nope, not at all. Evident because I'm on the internet today.

Don't be so stupid. Of course I work outside of term time, and my working day doesn't finish at 3pm. Trust me on that one. Every day I take work home. Maybe I'm the exception, but I find it very hard to switch off from school things.

seamus

billybudd wrote: »

I must say not one teacher on here has given a worthwhile answer to why it is not a good idea and what reasons why it is not a good idea

At the same time, no-one has given a worthwhile answer as to why it is a good idea.

billybudd

seamus wrote: »

At the same time, no-one has given a worthwhile answer as to why it is a good idea.

The Op did.

Cherryfizz

During the boom years noone really cared about the length of School Holidays or Teachers because most people were on the pigs back creaming bonuses! Now because everything has gone belly up there seems to be a real sense of begrudgery against Teachers. Teachers did not cause this economic mess and are trying like everyone else to ride this awful storm out. Teachers don't want to see their family and friends emigrating or certain students infront of them stressed because of their parents finances. There is an assumption that all teachers have secure jobs which in itself is not true or that every teacher gets paid holidays or the hours are just 9 -4. Back in the Boom Years some looked down on Teaching because there wasnt enough money in it. But thats the thing, people don't teach to make their fortune but in the belief to make a difference in a young persons life and impart knowledge. Like every profession there are people who are better at the job than others and the crackdown on those not performing is welcomed. When I was a child I loved the holidays to play more sport or get a job for myself. An education is not just what is learnt in the classroom as we all know but what goes on in everyday life!

stripysocks85

When do teachers plan?

micropig wrote: »

Not during the summer holidays anyway. time is factored in to their timetable for this.

Is it? It's not factored into mine? Any plans I do is done outside of the school hours.

44leto

Unions Union and unions, you really couldn't upset the people in the best part-time job in the country.

stripysocks85

seamus wrote: »

At the same time, no-one has given a worthwhile answer as to why it is a good idea.

Maybe because it's not?

I Heart Internet

stripysocks85 wrote: »

Nope, not at all. Evident because I'm on the internet today.

Don't be so stupid. Of course I work outside of term time, and my working day doesn't finish at 3pm. Trust me on that one. Every day I take work home. Maybe I'm the exception, but I find it very hard to switch off from school things.

I was simply going on your statement that you "work damn hard during term time". Thought it was telling.

Very many people take work home with them.

seamus

billybudd wrote: »

The Op did.

No he didn't. He failed to outline how shorter holidays would be beneficial to anyone.

He stated that they would be beneficial, but didn't say how. More time in school does not necessarily correlate to better education for students. More time in school does not mean better teachers. More time in school will cost the state proportionately more in maintenance.

billybudd

Cherryfizz wrote: »

During the boom years noone really cared about the length of School Holidays or Teachers because most people were on the pigs back creaming bonuses! Now because everything has gone belly up there seems to be a real sense of begrudgery against Teachers. Teachers did not cause this economic mess and are trying like everyone else to ride this awful storm out. Teachers don't want to see their family and friends emigrating or certain students infront of them stressed because of their parents finances. There is an assumption that all teachers have secure jobs which in itself is not true or that every teacher gets paid holidays or the hours are just 9 -4. Back in the Boom Years some looked down on Teaching because there wasnt enough money in it. But thats the thing, people don't teach to make their fortune but in the belief to make a difference in a young persons life and impart knowledge. Like every profession there are people who are better at the job than others and the crackdown on those not performing is welcomed. When I was a child I loved the holidays to play more sport or get a job for myself. An education is not just what is learnt in the classroom as we all know but what goes on in everyday life!

The Op to my mind is not teacher bashing it raised some interesting and valid questions in relation to reform in a sector that badly needs reform.

stripysocks85

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I was simply going on your statement that you "work damn hard during term time". Thought it was telling.

Very many people take work home with them.

Yes they do. In all professions. What is your point?

Conchir

Leave my 3 month Summer holidays alone

billybudd

seamus wrote: »

No he didn't. He failed to outline how shorter holidays would be beneficial to anyone.

He stated that they would be beneficial, but didn't say how. More time in school does not necessarily correlate to better education for students. More time in school does not mean better teachers. More time in school will cost the state proportionately more in maintenance.

He listed four or five points that in his opinion are beneficial. i presume those points answer in a small way how it would be better to use resources at hand.