Why can't school holidays be shorter

Miss Lockhart

micropig wrote: »

your reply does not really answer the question of "why can't school holidays be shorter?"...........

...............but next time, take the time to read the question in the OP thoroughly before writing your answer.

Whereas your inaccurate references to a discussion about the charter of another forum are of course the answer the the thread topic.

micropig

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Whereas your inaccurate references to a discussion about the charter of another forum are of course the answer the the thread topic.

Again "Why can't school holidays be shorter?"

Will it be necessary for me to make a worksheet for you so you can answer with pictures?

I will try rewording the question

Is there any reason school holidays are so long?

oppenheimer1

micropig wrote: »

Again "Why can't school holidays be shorter?"

Will it be necessary for me to make a worksheet for you so you can answer with pictures?

I will try rewording the question

Is there any reason school holidays are so long?

Because the teaching unions have managed to protect their perk despite it no longer being relevant.

That's the short truthful answer. The rest is just teacher propaganda.

Dudess

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Dudess wrote: »

But not all workers are educating children. The short classroom days and long holidays are for THEIR benefit which always gets forgotten in this debate. Teaching a child 9 to 5 all year round and with only a few weeks' holidays would be detrimental to them. And a teacher's working day is not finished in the classroom. Seems a tough job with a fairly mediocre salary - I wouldn't do it.

Detrimental, for their benefit... both utter nonsense. Most other countries have a longer school year and it isn't detrimental to their children. Many of these have children who exceed ours in numeracy and literacy.

The long school holidays were never for the benefit of the children, and to say so is to perpetuate a myth. The long holidays and short days were so children could help out on the farm. This was in place because if it wasn't parents wouldn't send their children. Back then there was little cultural importance placed on education, so this was a compromise.

These days it is hardly in the childrens benefit, where we have a curriculum crammed into a short year, with many children failing at literacy and numeracy. It would be beneficial for them to spend longer with the teacher. The only group the long holidays serve is the teachers, not the parents or the children. Funny that is a constant theme in Irish education - a system to serve the vested interests, never education or children.

I'm not advocating the abolition of holidays for school children, they do need time off, and need more time off than adults. They do need however to spend some more time in school, I would suggest an extra 6 weeks. Teachers do not however need the same amount of time off as their students. Teachers could use the rest of the additional time off to prepare lessons, write books (which would abolish the need for expensive textbooks) or run extra tuition for children who need extra help.

Dudess wrote: »

You can be sure they continue working well after the bell rings - and bring their work home with them.

A small amount of unpaid/unofficial overtime... its not as if no one else has to do that too.In fact most workers do. My heart bleeds.

I fail to see where I even implied your heart should bleed :pac: I was just disputing the disingenuous notion that their working day ends when the school day ends. It doesn't at all - and rightly so. It can carry on until the evening. It's not unpaid overtime, it's part of their working day. And it isn't a "small amount". I agree with your points that the holidays are perhaps too long, but you were the one saying every worker should have the same holidays - my point was simply that this isn't feasible when you bring educating children into the equation.

sock puppet

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Because the teaching unions have managed to protect their perk despite it no longer being relevant.

That's the short truthful answer. The rest is just teacher propaganda.

You haven't explained why teachers would be dead set against shorter working days.

Dudess

A lot of teachers' minds being read on this thread - by non teachers. Amazing isn't it?!

omg a kitty

micropig wrote: »

Again "Why can't school holidays be shorter?"

Will it be necessary for me to make a worksheet for you so you can answer with pictures?

I will try rewording the question

Is there any reason school holidays are so long?


Pay scales are in the public domain

People need a break :mad:
Maybe not the teachers as much. But no student is gonna sit in school for 11 months a year, maximum productivity my hole.
The system can't cope with that.

Okay so you're saying... every school closed on August 1st and reopened on September 1st

Junior and Leaving Cert begins on the 2nd of August and ends on the 18th of August. New years TY and college first years get 12 days of Summer (loving your ideas ).
And they magically correct all the LC and JC papers (circa 110,00?) and send out CAO offers and the students accept them before college begins on the 1st of September!!

Get real

lily09

I am genuinly fascinated by some posters who are laying blame on the teachers themselves and unions. I have already posted twice that Irish teachers work longer on average than their counterparts in other countries (very important as most public sector debates descend into comparisons with other countries) are we to presume then that the amount of time children spend in school is governed by international norms and best practice standardsinstead of greedy Lazy Irish teachers.

oppenheimer1

Dudess wrote: »

I fail to see where I even implied your heart should bleed :pac: I was just disputing the disingenuous notion that their working day ends when the school day ends. It doesn't at all - and rightly so. It can carry on until the evening. It's not unpaid overtime, it's part of their working day. And it isn't a "small amount". I agree with your points that the holidays are perhaps too long, but you were the one saying every worker should have the same holidays - my point was simply that this isn't feasible when you bring educating children into the equation.

I was just illustrating that we all have to do work late and take it home with us. Teachers aren't special in that regard. Marking a class worth of maths tests is a small amount of work, no more than half an hours work. They're not slaving into the night over a spreadsheet.


Yes it is. I don't believe students and children should attend school in a 9-5 Monday to Friday way. I see no reason though that teachers shouldn't be made to work those hours though. They get paid enough. Perhaps if they had to work during the summer anyway then they wouldn't be so cynical and more considerate with their family planning too, which is often highly disruptive for the students.

They could be doing more than classroom work, preparing lessons and extra one-on-one tuition for students that need it for example. I could find plenty of ways they could fill their other days, and be useful to the communities in which they work, outside of the direct classroom duties.

tempura

I like seeing my kids.

I like that they get long holidays.

Have just spent the last two weeks enjoying their company, kids are great little people.

They deserve to be kids and enjoy their childhood, it really doesn't last that long.

oppenheimer1

sock puppet wrote: »

You haven't explained why teachers would be dead set against shorter working days.

Because you still have to attend the workplace. You are still tied to your work location. I wouldn't be surprised if teachers would like a longer working day in exchange for more holidays. Most people who work office hours would in my experience.

micropig

omg a kitty wrote: »

People need a break :mad:
Maybe not the teachers as much. But no student is gonna sit in school for 11 months a year, maximum productivity my hole.
The system can't cope with that.

Okay so you're saying... every school closed on August 1st and reopened on September 1st

Junior and Leaving Cert begins on the 2nd of August and ends on the 18th of August. New years TY and college first years get 12 days of Summer (loving your ideas ).
And they magically correct all the LC and JC papers (circa 110,00?) and send out CAO offers and the students accept them before college begins on the 1st of September!!

Get real

You have missed some of my other ideas, which included changing the state examinations, what and how we are teaching our children,

So no that's not what I'm saying:rolleyes::

oppenheimer1

omg a kitty wrote: »

People need a break :mad:
Maybe not the teachers as much. But no student is gonna sit in school for 11 months a year, maximum productivity my hole.
The system can't cope with that.

Okay so you're saying... every school closed on August 1st and reopened on September 1st

Junior and Leaving Cert begins on the 2nd of August and ends on the 18th of August. New years TY and college first years get 12 days of Summer (loving your ideas ).
And they magically correct all the LC and JC papers (circa 110,00?) and send out CAO offers and the students accept them before college begins on the 1st of September!!

Get real

They manage to run the A-levels in the UK with shorter summer holidays. Its manageable. Some things might need to change and a more flexible attitude from teachers would be needed (God forbid!).

micropig

tempura wrote: »

I like seeing my kids.

I like that they get long holidays.

Have just spent the last two weeks enjoying their company, kids are great little people.

They deserve to be kids and enjoy their childhood, it really doesn't last that long.

Your children are lucky. They have you to care about them, doing things with them and it sounds like they enjoy spending time at home.

Some children are not so lucky. They come from abusive homes, where their parents do not give a sh1t, are abusive etc.:(

sock puppet

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Because you still have to attend the workplace. You are still tied to your work location. I wouldn't be surprised if teachers would like a longer working day in exchange for more holidays. Most people who work office hours would in my experience.

Whatever way you look at it if teaching hours were cut by 30 minutes each day then teachers would need to be in school for 30 minutes less each day.

Coriolanus

Naomi00 wrote: »

Nevore wrote: »

It might be a bit of a leap, but I'm assuming that the 00 in your nick refers to your dob.
So, get the fsck to bed child. Way too late for a twelve year old to be up.

It doesn't stand for anything actually so no, I'm obviously not 12.

Some of the stupid things people have written on this would make you laugh.

Not obvious, not at all.

oppenheimer1

sock puppet wrote: »

Whatever way you look at it if teaching hours were cut by 30 minutes each day then teachers would need to be in school for 30 minutes less each day.

There is a greater opportunity cost associated with a shorter working day and more school days for teachers than a longer day and fewer school days. Thats why they don't want a shorter day with more work days.

For Example... If I have to be in the school until 2pm , Monday to Friday, I can't go to Dublin for the day. However if I work until 4pm and work Monday to Thursday and have Friday off, I can spend Friday as I please and need not be anywhere near the school.

A day off is worth more than 4 two hour chunks.

micropig

To make it more fun for the children, How about applying more not traditional teaching methods for the summer and set up

a) gaeltachts in the schools - every primary school teacher is fluent and they could run this

b) Secondary schools run 3-4 week long courses for pupils in music, drama, science, film making, science, IT etc according to their qualification/interests/abilities.

Schools in the area should be able to offer most of these between, let the students choose which course they do, hence which school they attend for those few weeks. Older students could help younger ones etc,They wouldn't be sitting behind a desk for the extra weeks, it would be more extra curricular.

Would strengthen their subject knowledge, social opportunities etc

Micky Dolenz

Mod

micropig, don't drag stuff from other fora into AH.

PM if you need clarification.

al28283

micropig wrote: »

To make it more fun for the children, How about applying more not traditional teaching methods for the summer and set up

a) gaeltachts in the schools - every primary school teacher is fluent and they could run this

b) Secondary schools run 3-4 week long courses for pupils in music, drama, science, film making, science, IT etc according to their qualification/interests/abilities.

Schools in the area should be able to offer most of these between, let the students choose which course they do, hence which school they attend for those few weeks. Older students could help younger ones etc,They wouldn't be sitting behind a desk for the extra weeks, it would be more extra curricular.

Would strengthen their subject knowledge, social opportunities etc

a) gaeltacht in schools, yayyyyy. fun :rolleyes:

b) they should be doing all this anyway

sock puppet

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

There is a greater opportunity cost associated with a shorter working day and more school days for teachers than a longer day and fewer school days. Thats why they don't want a shorter day with more work days.

Has anyone proposed it?

micropig

al28283 wrote: »

a) gaeltacht in schools, yayyyyy. fun :rolleyes:

b) they should be doing all this anyway

Make it fun, do drama, sports, art etc through Irish, Mix up pupils from different schools etc







and then beat the irish in to them*:D:D

*That last sentence is a JOKE

al28283

micropig wrote: »

Make it fun, do drama, sports, art etc through Irish, Mix up pupils from different schools etc







and then beat the irish in to them*:D:D

*That last sentence is a JOKE

forget Irish, it's time wasted

micropig

al28283 wrote: »

forget Irish, it's time wasted

Our secondary teachers would be running other language courses

stripysocks85

micropig wrote: »

Make it fun, do drama, sports, art etc through Irish, Mix up pupils from different schools etc







and then beat the irish in to them*:D:D

*That last sentence is a JOKE

How is the name of God is that productive?

You're actually just taking the p!ss now!!! That is an absolute joke!

And just because some children don't have parents to look after them & enjoy them, what, teachers should be used as a creche instead? I'd devote my energy into educating parents about their children and looking after them instead of trying to squeeze every bit of good out of the education system. Get real.

al28283

micropig wrote: »

Our secondary teachers would be running other language courses

what do you mean by would be?

micropig

stripysocks85 wrote: »

How is the name of God is that productive?

You're actually just taking the p!ss now!!! That is an absolute joke!

And just because some children don't have parents to look after them & enjoy them, what, teachers should be used as a creche instead? I'd devote my energy into educating parents about their children and looking after them instead of trying to squeeze every bit of good out of the education system. Get real.

You're misunderstanding. I'm not talking about setting up crèches. Gaeltachts are creches with no educational value? as are the other clubs & such I mentioned? I talking about course which provide learning experiences for children. Why do you view this as a creche? It would strengthen their subject knowledge and they could explore their interests if anything. Learning can occur outside of the traditional classroom setting as well.

al28283 wrote: »

what do you mean by would be?

Include languages in point b of this post

al28283

any answer or are you just going to quote the question again? Why even bother?

al28283

You misunderstood my question, when I asked what you meant by "would be ", I was asking what languages they would teach, I was asking what you meant by "would be"

micropig

al28283 wrote: »

You misunderstood my question, when I asked what you meant by "would be ", I was asking what languages they would teach, I was asking what you meant by "would be"

Rephrase would be to

Our secondary teachers would could should be running other language courses for a few weeks during the summer

French, German, Spanish, what ever language the teacher currently teaches

German teachers run German courses, French teachers run French courses etc

al28283

micropig wrote: »

Rephrase would be to

Our secondary teachers would could should be running other language courses for a few weeks during the summer

French, German, Spanish, what ever language the teacher currently teaches

German teachers run German courses, French teachers run French courses etc

So they just keep on doing their job as normal? Why teachers of languages have to keep teaching during summer and not maths or geography teachers?

micropig

micropig wrote: »

b) Secondary schools run 3-4 week long courses for pupils in music, drama, science, film making, science, IT etc according to their qualification/interests/abilities.

al28283 wrote: »

a) gaeltacht in schools, yayyyyy. fun :rolleyes:

b) they should be doing all this anyway

al28283 wrote: »

So they just keep on doing their job as normal? Why teachers of languages have to keep teaching during summer and not maths or geography teachers?

You agreed in the above post that they should be doing this anyway


It's not just language teachers.
science teachers run science clubs
history teachers run archaeology clubs, genealogy clubs
English teachers - drama clubs, creative writing clubs, film making clubs
PE teachers - sports clubs
Computer teachers run IT courses
art teachers, drawing, pottery, sculpture clubs ......and so on

Schools offer courses in x,y,z...pupils given option to choose, but they must sign up for one.

Your school has great sports facilities and language labs -ok we'll run those activities there

My school has great science labs and good computer facilities we run those there

Has that school a stage? that would be perfect for the drama club and so on

al28283

micropig wrote: »

You agreed in the above post that they should be doing this anyway


It's not just language teachers.
science teachers run science clubs
history teachers run archaeology clubs, genealogy clubs
English teachers - drama clubs, creative writing clubs, film making clubs
PE teachers - sports clubs
Computer teachers run IT courses
art teachers, drawing, pottery, sculpture clubs ......and so on

Schools offer courses in x,y,z...pupils given option to choose, but they must sign up for one.

Your school has great sports facilities and language labs -ok we'll run those activities there

My school has great science labs and good computer facilities we run those there

Has that school a stage? that would be perfect for the drama club and so on

no, what you are describing should be happening during the regula school year. Doing it during the summer holidays aswell does not make it more fun

micropig

al28283 wrote: »

no, what you are describing should be happening during the regula school year. Doing it during the summer holidays aswell does not make it more fun

Do you think students who are already interested and participating in these clubs would be delighted to be given the opportunity to spend more time learning about what they enjoy doing?

For example, a student that is in to computers. Would they not like the opportunity to explore and learn about computers for 3-4 weeks?

Artist spending time how to draw
Creative writer learning how to improve their writing

and so on

and so on

It could be fun, it it was done properly. I'm not talking about them all just sitting in the classroom for the 3-4 weeks at their desks writing notes.


The could mix age groups to a certain extent

Any pupils who want to improve their irish --->to the gaeltacht in the primary school

byhookorbycrook

Summer school in Irish is not a Gaeltacht, it's baby sitting with some Irish thrown in.

micropig

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Summer school in Irish is not a Gaeltacht, it's baby sitting with some Irish thrown in.

Ok its not going to be a authentic Gaeltacht, but the children that can, have the opportunity to attend Gaeltacht in the remaining summer holiday. Gaeltachts are expensive and many children are not able to afford it, so not every child gets to go. This might be the nearest to any Gaeltacht they ever get.

How is it babysitting with Irish thrown in? Primary school teachers are all fluent?

Start a drama clubs in irish, writing clubs...get a few competition set up between groups

General Irish speaking clubs play sports, do art, films, get students to make their own films, through Irish. Everyone must only speak Irish, organise a ceili, get the children from the music club to perform at it after the exhibition of the art work;)

Just because it's not in the classroom in the traditional sense, doesn't mean it's not learning. That's quite a narrow view of what "education" is.

omg a kitty

micropig wrote: »

Do you think students who are already interested and participating in these clubs would be delighted to be given the opportunity to spend more time learning about what they enjoy doing?

For example, a student that is in to computers. Would they not like the opportunity to explore and learn about computers for 3-4 weeks?

Artist spending time how to draw
Creative writer learning how to improve their writing

and so on

and so on

It could be fun, it it was done properly. I'm not talking about them all just sitting in the classroom for the 3-4 weeks at their desks writing notes.


The could mix age groups to a certain extent

Any pupils who want to improve their irish --->to the gaeltacht in the primary school

Hah! Me and my friend had to teach my so called "IT teacher" how to use Photoshop so he can teach the rest of the class.
The fact is, any teenager with an interest in IT already knows more than the majority of the teachers..another topic that should be discussed in a separate thread.

But I do like the idea of schools running workshops over the summer, not the whole summer obviously. It would only work in big schools though.

carfiosaoorl

As a parent I disagree with you OP. I know for my kids anyway in the run up to midterms, Christmas and Summer holidays they are wrecked. They need the time off that they get. They are kids for fnuck sake. Why would you want to shorten their holidays. Someone is a feeling a little bitter.

micropig

@omg a kitty :DWe'll leave that bit for another thread

omg a kitty wrote: »

But I do like the idea of schools running workshops over the summer, not the whole summer obviously. It would only work in big schools though.

A problem will arise with rural country schools. But if there are 2-3 small schools in an town/area, all club together to provide as wide of a range of courses they can to the pupils in that locality.

& For the more isolated schools we could start giving them much needed resources to enable them to provide a broad range of courses

oppenheimer1

Its easy to spot the teachers posting here. They dismiss quite good creative and cheap ideas totally out of hand without reason. Summer schools could do wonders for struggling children in ever increasing class sizes.

There is absolutely no reason our schools couldn't be open during the summer months providing learning opportunities for those that want to avail of them. Except of course, teachers not wanting to do it.

We have yet to get one good reason why they aren't feasible.

CrabRevolution

micropig wrote: »

Do you think students who are already interested and participating in these clubs would be delighted to be given the opportunity to spend more time learning about what they enjoy doing?

For example, a student that is in to computers. Would they not like the opportunity to explore and learn about computers for 3-4 weeks?

Artist spending time how to draw
Creative writer learning how to improve their writing

and so on

and so on

It could be fun, it it was done properly. I'm not talking about them all just sitting in the classroom for the 3-4 weeks at their desks writing notes.


The could mix age groups to a certain extent

Any pupils who want to improve their irish --->to the gaeltacht in the primary school

I can't see students loving this, many students have small, varied interests in lots of areas that they wouldnt want to spend weeks learning about.

In my case I absolutely loved engineering and biology as subjects in secondary school, they were my favorite subjects by a long margin. I probably studied them too much to the detriment of my 5 other subjects.

Would I have wanted to do extra weeks of them, even in an informal setting? No, not a hope, nothing compares to the fun that the summer holidays can be. doing what you want, where you want with friends, playing sport, travelling places, free from all pressure.

I'd also imagine that were there as much enthusiasm for teenagers to voluntarily learn these things someone would have spotted this market and set up computers/art/language courses on a massive scale in the summer. I know there are Gaeltacht courses, but nobody I knew goes to those for Irish, they are often just good fun.

There are also german/french language colleges available but they are like school in some ways and unlike it in others, again they arent being done on a massive scale like your plan suggests.

If someone is really passionate about something like you say, they will study it in college anyway. After loving biology and engineering, I am fittingly studying a course with bioengineering as a major part.

oppenheimer1

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I can't see students loving this, many students have small, varied interests in lots of areas that they wouldnt want to spend weeks learning about.

In my case I absolutely loved engineering and biology as subjects in secondary school, they were my favorite subjects by a long margin. I probably studied them too much to the detriment of my 5 other subjects.

Would I have wanted to do extra weeks of them, even in an informal setting? No, not a hope, nothing compares to the fun that the summer holidays can be. doing what you want, where you want with friends, playing sport, travelling places, free from all pressure.

I'd also imagine that were there as much enthusiasm for teenagers to voluntarily learn these things someone would have spotted this market and set up computers/art/language courses on a massive scale in the summer. I know there are Gaeltacht courses, but nobody I knew goes to those for Irish, they are often just good fun.

There are also german/french language colleges available but they are like school in some ways and unlike it in others, again they arent being done on a massive scale like your plan suggests.

If someone is really passionate about something like you say, they will study it in college anyway. After loving biology and engineering, I am fittingly studying a course with bioengineering as a major part.

Travelling places?! These are children remember, not college students. The only travelling these will be doing is with their parents. You must be wearing the rose tinted glasses because the summer holidays can be quite long and boring for many- you end up with vandalism then. It was kids on their Easter break who attacked the train I was on last week.

You must be living under a rock or something, because summer camps are huge business. The GAA and FAI for example have thousands of children attending their camps during the summer. Gaeltachts are far from niche as well. The idea would be to use the school buildings, but the courses and the like wouldn't be school per-se. There would be no uniform and hours would be more relaxed.

You were lucky in that you knew what you wanted to study when you were older. Perhaps these summer camps would be able to provide a wide range of experiences to let children who don't know what they like yet to find out.

micropig

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I can't see students loving this, many students have small, varied interests in lots of areas that they wouldnt want to spend weeks learning about.

In my case I absolutely loved engineering and biology as subjects in secondary school, they were my favorite subjects by a long margin. I probably studied them too much to the detriment of my 5 other subjects.

Would I have wanted to do extra weeks of them, even in an informal setting? No, not a hope, nothing compares to the fun that the summer holidays can be. doing what you want, where you want with friends, playing sport, travelling places, free from all pressure.

I'd also imagine that were there as much enthusiasm for teenagers to voluntarily learn these things someone would have spotted this market and set up computers/art/language courses on a massive scale in the summer. I know there are Gaeltacht courses, but nobody I knew goes to those for Irish, they are often just good fun.

There are also german/french language colleges available but they are like school in some ways and unlike it in others, again they arent being done on a massive scale like your plan suggests.

If someone is really passionate about something like you say, they will study it in college anyway. After loving biology and engineering, I am fittingly studying a course with bioengineering as a major part.

Children spend time dedicated to their hobbies outside of school. I would think, given the opportunity students would love to learn about things off the curriculum. Why wait until college?

Your friends would be doing the courses too..and they're may be even students from other schools/years in your group. It would help students across all years get to know each other and possibly help to reduce bullying overall.Students get to know each other, older ones look out for their new younger friends they bonded with over the summer course

Was there any experiments/things you would have liked to actually build that you would have liked to try, but it was not possible because there was not time?

Make yoghurt, learn biology songs, grow plants, visit a farm

Design and build your own guitar holder/replica of the school/ cool thing for you stereo to sit on

CrabRevolution

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Travelling places?! These are children remember, not college students. The only travelling these will be doing is with their parents. You must be wearing the rose tinted glasses because the summer holidays can be quite long and boring for many- you end up with vandalism then. It was kids on their Easter break who attacked the train I was on last week.

You must be living under a rock or something, because summer camps are huge business. The GAA and FAI for example have thousands of children attending their camps during the summer. Gaeltachts are far from niche as well. The idea would be to use the school buildings, but the courses and the like wouldn't be school per-se. There would be no uniform and hours would be more relaxed.

You were lucky in that you knew what you wanted to study when you were older. Perhaps these summer camps would be able to provide a wide range of experiences to let children who don't know what they like yet to find out.

I don't mean other countries (well, holidays maybe), but other counties, going away for the day on the bus or train, to the beach etc.

I also know of the GAA and FAI camps, having attended them. But you'll see those camps are mostly for primary school children (the GAA one is anyway), secondary school students normally play with teams several evenings all year round, and the camps last five days outside playing sport, sport and more sport.

I was basing my argument on the idea where these summer courses are compulsory, and that you only get to pick which course. When you are a teenager you should be given some slack and the choice whether to attend or not, you already spend september to may (june if you do exams) being told to study and work. In my case I wanted to just get it over with and have my months off, I would in no sense want a watered down version of what I spent months doing.

Another aspect of it is that many teenagers just see anything connected with school is just bad. You would think P.E. would be one of the less unpopular subjects, but nobody cared or was interested. I knew lads who were intercounty minor players and also excelled at soccer and rugby and loved any sport, but who just didnt care for P.E. no matter what we did, the mindset was that it's part of school, so they didn't care.

Milk & Honey

mikemac1 wrote: »

Stacking the square bales in the fields and there was a special way to do it, you had to have the knots facing down and on the outside though I never actually learned why.
Anyone know?

So the rainwater runs off them and does not soak into them. It is why bales are much preferred to haycocks. They are much more water resistant.

micropig

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I don't mean other countries (well, holidays maybe), but other counties, going away for the day on the bus or train, to the beach etc.

Hanging around their locality, unsupervised for a lot of children & August would still be a holiday

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I also know of the GAA and FAI camps, having attended them. But you'll see those camps are mostly for primary school children (the GAA one is anyway), secondary school students normally play with teams several evenings all year round, and the camps last five days outside playing sport, sport and more sport.

Mostly offered to primary school children...secondary students aren't being given the opportunity to explore their interests

Edit: They are in many schools during term in after school clubs, but the students are not immersed in it for 4 weeks

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I was basing my argument on the idea where these summer courses are compulsory, and that you only get to pick which course. When you are a teenager you should be given some slack and the choice whether to attend or not, you already spend september to may (june if you do exams) being told to study and work. In my case I wanted to just get it over with and have my months off, I would in no sense want a watered down version of what I spent months doing.

Pick a course you are interested in?? It needed be a watered down version fo what you are doing, you could do something you never studied, for instance, how to cook taught by the home economics teacher, participate in drama, improve your irish because you want to be a primary school teacher, improve you german/french/spanish because you plan o travelling europe. Get the chance to carry out some fun experiments in science, how to build a rocket etc even though you don't study science?

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Another aspect of it is that many teenagers just see anything connected with school is just bad. You would think P.E. would be one of the less unpopular subjects, but nobody cared or was interested. I knew lads who were intercounty minor players and also excelled at soccer and rugby and loved any sport, but who just didnt care for P.E. no matter what we did, the mindset was that it's part of school, so they didn't care.

Students who wanted to get fit/ learn how to play tag rugby/learn aerobics/healthy eating diet/muscles in the body and how they work etc could sign up to your summer course. You may have to deal with teaching a bunch of students who actually want to be there. Students who may to normally do PE may sign up to a Irish dancing class, facilitated by a teacher and run by the students with ability prepared to run a class in it, this will teach the students running it how to plan, presentation skills etc, incorporate it with Irish culture and music..opportunity here for different groups to interact..more socialisation for the children.

Maybe the inter county players would like to learn/improve their drawing, creative writing, drama, science, maths, irish......they're probably tired from playing sport the whole time

micropig

Milk & Honey wrote: »

So the rainwater runs off them and does not soak into them. It is why bales are much preferred to haycocks. They are much more water resistant.

Easier to move and store as well:p:D

kraggy

micropig wrote: »

Not during the summer holidays anyway. time is factored in to their timetable for this.

.


By planning interesting lessons, where children are actively engaged with activities and not just sitting listening to the teacher.



their lunch????


What??




Easy to keep kids engaged if you plan enjoyable lesson, suited to their interests and abilities




Why does the work done in the holidays have to be pointless busy work? Why can't it be productive work with merit and real learning? why does it even have to be of the same set up as the normal year. Many children go to summer camps etc, schools could provide activities which children, enjoy and learn from, as well as giving the children the opportunity to socialise
.

threads like these really show how delusional and set in their ways some teachers are. Some lack the ability to think outside the box. this may be a knock on effect of going from school - college -teaching, without ever experienced the real world

Who supervises the children while the teacher plans? What do you mean it's factored into the timetable? It's not. We plan outside of normal school hours. We don't just leg it once the bell goes. But people like you think that because the kids leave at time x, that the teacher follows them out the door. They don't.

Keeping children as young as 4 engaged for 10 hours is not possible. Even if you showed them their favourite movies they wouldn't stay interested for 10 hours.

You still haven't answered what the kids will eat to sustain them for 10 hours. Packing a lunch that will give them adequate nutirition is very difficult. You can't just give them sandwiches.

Teachers are delusional? We're the ones who are in the classroom and know what kids can and can't do. We're the ones who know what works and doesn't work.

Some of us go straight from college to work. I didn't. I'd wager that I have ten times more life experience than you and have been through even more times crap in my life than you. But I said I'd wager, but unlike you I won't presume. Cause I don't know that for a fact.

Once you've stepped inside a classroom as a teacher and have gained some real insight into what the job involves and not just speaking from having past experience as a student, then get back to us with your ingenious analysis.

guitarzero

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Without having a dig at teachers or anyone else in the public sector, I'd like to suggest that we shorten the school holidays.

Everyone - primary and secondary get the full month of August off (perhaps 3rd level degrees could also be condensed?).

This would:

- Increase teaching time for students
- Increase the productivity of school buildings and other assets
- Increase the productivity of teachers themselves
- Increase productivity of a section of parents during the summer months (childcare, etc)

What are the downsides to this idea??

- More expensive holidays during the month of August?
- any more??

Wow, let me guess, that voice in your head just goes "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....."

Smidge

Keeping children as young as 4 engaged for 10 hours is not possible. Even if you showed them their favourite movies they wouldn't stay interested for 10 hours.

You still haven't answered what the kids will eat to sustain them for 10 hours. Packing a lunch that will give them adequate nutirition is very difficult. You can't just give them sandwiches.

Teachers are delusional? We're the ones who are in the classroom and know what kids can and can't do. We're the ones who know what works and doesn't work.

Some of us go straight from college to work. I didn't. I'd wager that I have ten times more life experience than you and have been through even more times crap in my life than you. But I said I'd wager, but unlike you I won't presume. Cause I don't know that for a fact.

Once you've stepped inside a classroom as a teacher and have gained some real insight into what the job involves and not just speaking from having past experience as a student, then get back to us with your ingenious analysis.[/QUOTE]

With all due respect to you as a teacher, not sure as to the ten hour thing. Surely though for the average school day as a teacher you would have the "wherewithall" to be able to interact with a child without the use of movies.