How to revive the Irish language.

Interest in History

An Coilean wrote: »

Define 'pretty intense', it is quite a subjective term, what is intense to you may well be of trifiling insignificence to the rest of us.

The refusal of any Leaving Certificate to a pupil who did not pass Irish was an intense measure. Also Irish being an entry requirement for the public service and for promotion in the public service.

But again - is it fruitful to debate the past? Let's focus on the present.

Curly Judge

Poll Dubh wrote: »

I revived my own Irish with a bit of study and now enjoy raising my own little boys through Irish.

Well done! I seriously congratulate you on your hobby, I really do.
It's only when people, [I'm not for a minute suggesting you], want other people to pay for that hobby that I take issue with the compulsion behind the effort to revive the Irish language.

An Coilean

Interest in History wrote: »

Gaelscoileanna and TG4 for the first. The Irish portion of the ESB booklets and bilingual road signs for the second.

Gaelscoileanna are not a result of Government language policy, they were by an large forced on the Government by communities around the country and were often resisted by the Government.
TG4 again came about because of pressure from the public which saw several people go to Jail, I would not say it is fair to credit state policy with either.

I really don't see how a bilingual booklet from the ESB could be said to be part of a policy of linguistic change in the population at large, that they are bilingual means that an English version of the information is available for those who choose to use English.
Is there also being an Irish version of the information not just an example of the state supporting those who choose to use Irish, if they were available in English only, that would in essence force English on those who prefer to use Irish, would it not?

Poll Dubh

Curly Judge wrote: »

Well done! I seriously congratulate you on your hobby, I really do.
It's only when people, [I'm not for a minute suggesting you], want other people to pay for that hobby that I take issue with the compulsion behind the effort to revive the Irish language.

I communicate full time with my children in Irish which includes play, homework, getting dressed, getting them to eat their dinner and chastising them. I never heard of raising children being called a hobby before.

I pay taxes and appreciate having Irish services from the state.

Interest in History

Curly Judge wrote: »

Well done! I seriously congratulate you on your hobby, I really do.
It's only when people, [I'm not for a minute suggesting you], want other people to pay for that hobby that I take issue with the compulsion behind the effort to revive the Irish language.

The free choice of a person to have more Irish in his or her life does not intrude on the freedom or welfare of anybody else. In fact it enriches the community indirectly.

The negative aspects of the Revival come entirely from the politicians.

An Coilean

Curly Judge wrote: »

Well done! I seriously congratulate you on your hobby, I really do.
It's only when people, [I'm not for a minute suggesting you], want other people to pay for that hobby that I take issue with the compulsion behind the effort to revive the Irish language.

Intresting choice of words, why 'Hobby'? I can't imagine someone raising their children through English being described as being engaged in a hobby, why use the word for someone raising their kids through Irish?

Green Giant

I believe that a lot of the disdain for the Irish language in this country stems from the dismally flawed manner in which the Irish course at secondary school level is structured.

Is it any wonder so many people (or at least a lot of people that I know) are turned off the language because they had Peig or An Triail drummed into them by a teacher who thinks that the same literature is worthy of Bible status? Ditto with poetry about a woman pulling away from a Connemara pier in 1834, leaving her poet husband a broken, yet suddenly inspired, man.

If Irish was taught as a language in the same manner that French, German, etc is taught at second level, rather than as a literature with irrelevant hardships from multiple generations ago, young people might be more encouraged to take pride in it and subsequently use it in their daily lives.

Curly Judge

Poll Dubh wrote: »

I communicate full time with my children in Irish which includes play, homework, getting dressed, getting them to eat their dinner and chastising them. I never heard of raising children being called a hobby before.

I pay taxes and appreciate having Irish services from the state.

I dont think I said that.
It might serve your argument better if you didn't put words in my mouth?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

An Coilean wrote: »

Intresting choice of words, why 'Hobby'? I can't imagine someone raising their children through English being described as being engaged in a hobby, why use the word for someone raising their kids through Irish?

Therein lies the problem: the second camp as illustrated by Interest in History will always see it as a "hobby".

The appointment of a commissoner and most of the useage of the funding are measures to pmake Irish available to those who want it. In other words, the first group highlighted by IiH. The second group, those who don't speak Irish, are not affected by this and will not be attracted to learn Irish when the funding is spent in this way. Therefore, it maintains it's "hobby" status in our view. Be it right or wrong, this IS the effect created by such policies.

I have no problem with all of this, by the way: but there is a sense of "preaching to the choir" about it. It all depends on how much funding you want to see maintaining Irish for those who want it and how much funding you want to see spent on expanding the number of regular Irish speakers in the country, I suppose.

At the moment, it's far more (if not entirely) the former, and little or none for the later, so there will always be a "hobby" to most non-Irish speakers.

MFdaveIreland

Wish we had of been taught Irish language up north here since primary school. Didn't get taught it until second year of secondary school for a few years, should be compulsory , feel theres an inferiority complex with speakers and non speakers in terms of Irish pedigree, sounds daft but I think it's true

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

MFdaveIreland wrote: »

Wish we had of been taught Irish language up north here since primary school. Didn't get taught it until second year of secondary school for a few years, should be compulsory , feel theres an inferiority complex with speakers and non speakers in terms of Irish pedigree, sounds daft but I think it's true

who's inferior? And how will forcing reluctang teenagers make anyone feel mroe superior?

MFdaveIreland

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

who's inferior? And how will forcing reluctang teenagers make anyone feel mroe superior?

sorry, what I mean it's people who don't understand Irish feel less involved in things that those who do, my opinion just,

mackerski

MFdaveIreland wrote: »

sorry, what I mean it's people who don't understand Irish feel less involved in things that those who do, my opinion just,

I've yet to encounter any aspect of real world society where a lack of Irish skills serves to exclude people. Though maybe if I didn't already speak it I might feel that way.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

MFdaveIreland wrote: »

sorry, what I mean it's people who don't understand Irish feel less involved in things that those who do, my opinion just,

In a way yes, but it's not something non-Irish speakers are encouraged to get involved in.

We don't feel inferior because, as pointed out in the post above this, it's not a life skill. We are no less well off for not speaking it and we don't feel as such.

But the first thing to do to encourage people to get involved is to scrap compulsory Irish. It really does alienate more people than any other dicision, positive or negative, before they've even entered adulthood.

MFdaveIreland

I agree with u, only feel that to learn something you have to be taught it or immersed in it . I would love to understand all Irish language, such things as gaa games I. Personally feel like an outsider not knowing what announcements are saying etc, my opinion though. Hope to take it up and join a few classes ,

Interest in History

MFdaveIreland wrote: »

I agree with u, only feel that to learn something you have to be taught it or immersed in it . I would love to understand all Irish language, such things as gaa games I. Personally feel like an outsider not knowing what announcements are saying etc, my opinion though. Hope to take it up and join a few classes ,

Well, since you are in the same situation as ninety percent of the population you don't qualify for the description "outsider".

camel jockey

Irish has gone up in my estimation since Alanna joined Ros Na Rún.

Interest in History

Green Giant wrote: »

I believe that a lot of the disdain for the Irish language in this country stems from the dismally flawed manner in which the Irish course at secondary school level is structured.....QUOTE]

Dr Kevin Williams knows a thing or two about this and he recently said: 'there is no miracle method that will make learning a second language an easy task which is likely to recommend itself to reluctant students' and ' 'there exists no dramatic change of content or of method that will make (Irish) more accessible to those who do not wish to learn it.'

But there is a miracle method of improving the atmosphere surrounding the learning of Irish in school. Start it in the first year of secondary school and after three years let students have the freedom to choose whether or not to continue studying it to the Leaving Cert. In short, end Compulsory Irish in the Leaving cert.

(There is one politician who recommended this, the present Taoiseach.)

Ticking and Bashing

I don't think it's fair to say that Irish is a dead language, waste of time etc...and I wouldn't agree with the thread title - 'how to revive the Irish language' - it's not dead!! If you visit any of the Gaeltacht regions you'll see this for yourself! People actually are surprised to see that it's spoken on a daily basis and that business is conducted through Irish. There's life outside Dublin ya know

MFdaveIreland

Nice to see I'm nt the only one, from the north it's understandable I'm nt going to here it often, if at all, but think it needs to be preserved

Interest in History

Poll Dubh wrote: »

I communicate full time with my children in Irish which includes play, homework, getting dressed, getting them to eat their dinner and chastising them. I never heard of raising children being called a hobby before.....

Hugo Hamilton wrote of his family experience with Irish in ""The Sailor in the Wardrobe" which might interest you

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

MFdaveIreland wrote: »

I agree with u, only feel that to learn something you have to be taught it or immersed in it . I would love to understand all Irish language, such things as gaa games I. Personally feel like an outsider not knowing what announcements are saying etc, my opinion though. Hope to take it up and join a few classes ,

You need to be taught to like it. If that fails, when you're dealing with kids, forget about it. Only after that can you go on to discussing ideas.

You want to do classes - why? Because you like it and no one is forcing you! (And best of luck with it, by the way.)

MFdaveIreland wrote: »

Nice to see I'm nt the only one, from the north it's understandable I'm nt going to here it often, if at all, but think it needs to be preserved

Neither are we, don't worry. The last time I heard Irish being spoken, believe it or not, was in a queue for an ATM in Berlin.

Carson10

I don't believe the Irish language is dead, but realistically its not part of our everyday lives and should be removed from the school curricular system and replaced with a more beneficial subject like computing or another practical subject.

In modern Ireland it should be treated as a hobby, like a child would take piano lessons on a Saturay morning. The same principal should be applied. As in Saturday Irish school for those who want it.

Personally I see a lot of the people who 'practice' Irish or promote it are generally band-wagon jumping as it makes them look 'alternative', generally the arty/ new age hippy population. These same people also jump on the band-wagon against fracking in Leitrim and are the first at any government protest.

Its part of the whole hippy/arty package I suppose.