Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

TheKeenMachine

Ok, so off the back of a somewhat disappointing Six Nations campaign, Kidney's men will be heading to New Zealand to attempt to record a first victory against the All Blacks this summer.
Tour Itinerary
JUNE 2012
Sat 9th Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Eden Park
Sat 16th Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Rugby League Park
Sat 23rd Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Waikato Stadium

Does anyone think Ireland will break their duck against the ABs or will it be three losses in a row?
In terms of squad selection, I hope that Kidney will experiment a little bit with some young players such as Ian Madigan or Simon Zebo and phase out some of the older campaigners.
If I were to pick a 30 man squad to travel, it would look something like this:
PROPS: Cian Healy; Mike Ross; Marcus Horan; Stephen Archer
HOOKERS: Rory Best; Sean Cronin; Damien Varley
SECOND ROWS: O'Connell; Donncha Ryan; Dan Tuohy
BACK ROWS: Stephen Ferris; Sean O'Brien; Peter O'Mahony;Kevin McLaughlin; Dominic Ryan; Chris Henry; Jamie Heaslip
SCRUM HALVES: Isaac Boss; Conor Murray
OUT HALVES: Jonny Sexton; Ian Madigan; ROG
CENTRES: BOD; Keith Earls; Fergus McFadden; Eoin O'Malley
BACK THREE: Rob Kearney; Simon Zebo; Andrew Trimble; Denis Hurley

Anyway let me know your thoughts on the tour and the squad

Hagz

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

PROPS: Cian Healy; Mike Ross; Marcus Horan; Stephen Archer
HOOKERS: Rory Best; Sean Cronin; Damien Varley
SECOND ROWS: O'Connell; Donncha Ryan; Dan Tuohy
BACK ROWS: Stephen Ferris; Sean O'Brien; Peter O'Mahony;Kevin McLaughlin; Dominic Ryan; Chris Henry; Jamie Heaslip
SCRUM HALVES: Isaac Boss; Conor Murray
OUT HALVES: Jonny Sexton; Ian Madigan; ROG
CENTRES: BOD; Keith Earls; Fergus McFadden; Eoin O'Malley
BACK THREE: Rob Kearney; Simon Zebo; Andrew Trimble; Denis Hurley

Anyway let me know your thoughts on the tour and the squad

Just looking at your squad
I wouldn't take Archer. I'd take Macklin if we're to take a young tight-head.

Don't think Ryan deserves to travel based on how little he's featured this season, I think Coughlan deserves to travel ahead of him, although Coughlan is injured so if he can't go I'd like to see Ruddock go instead.

How you can leave out Reddan is beyond me

Doubt he'll leave D'Arcy behind, I'd also take Wallace and Cave and have McFadden travel as wing option(not that I'd play him on the wing, I'd have him come as a centre who can cover wing)

Looking at your back-three makes me grimace. Hurley shouldn't go, nor should Zebo.

My choice
LH: Healy, Court
HK: Best, Cronin, Sherry
TH: Ross, Macklin
LK: O'Connell, Ryan, Tuohy, O'Callaghan
FK: Ferris, O'Brien, Henry, O'Mahony
N8: Heaslip, Coughlan
SH: Reddan, Boss, Murray
OH: Sexton, Madigan, O'Gara
CT: D'Arcy, Wallace, Cave, O'Driscoll
WG: Earls, Trimble, Fitzgerald, McFadden
FB: Kearney, Jones

CIARAN_BOYLE

Who'd be your bench prop? No one there comes close to covering both sides, I know Court isn't a good TH but him or Loughney are the only options that do cover both sides. Also I'd rate Horan as the fifth best Irish LH so I wouldn't be picking him at all, especially due to his age. Archer is very raw at the moment, got demolished for Ireland A earlier in the season. I'd bring Hagan or Macklin or Loghney ahead of him if I wanted a TH backup option.

I'd have Sherry ahead of Varley as a hooker.

Way to many backrowers in that squad, seven and two second rows that have experience in the backrow. I'd cut out Domonic Ryan and possibly McLaughlin as well. I'd bring Toner or McCarthy as another lock.

I'd add in Redden since he is Ireland's best performing scrumhalf and I can't see a reason to drop him.

Also in the center why three 13s and a 12 who has played a lot at 13.

No way would I bring Hurley not good enough for international rugby, I would bring Fitzgerald who is in good form instead of him. Maybe Jones as well if he recaptures last years form between now and the end of the season. While Zebo has potential I'd rate Kearney and Gilroy ahead of him as young talents.

Props Ross Healy Wilkinson Loughney
Hookers Best Cronin Sherry
Locks POC Ryan Tuohy Toner
Backrow SOB Ferris Heaslip POM Henry
SH Redden Murray Boss
OH Sexton Madigan ROG
Centers BOD, McFadden, Cave, Wallace
Backthree Fitzgerald Kearney Trimble Gilroy

WeeBushy

Based on a 30 man squad this is what I'd pick.

Props: Healy, Ross, Court, Hayes (:p I'll get back to the 4th prop)

Hookers: Best, Cronin, Sherry

2nd Rows: O'Connell, Ryan, Touhy, Toner (although DOC will travel instead of Toner)

Back Row: O'Brien, Ferris, Heaslip, O'Mahony, Henry

Scrum Half: Reddan, Murray

Out Half: Sexton, O'Gara, Madigan

Centre: D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Earls, Cave

Wing: Gilroy, Trimble, Fitgerald

Full Back: Kearney, Jones

Might be a little lob sided but I wanted to include all the players I want to see given a chance. And it would force Kidney to try something different if there was an injury!

CIARAN_BOYLE

WeeBushy wrote: »

Wing: Bowe, Trimble, Fitgerald

Bowe is injured and will miss the tour

WeeBushy

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Props Ross Healy Wilkinson Loughney
Hookers Best Cronin Sherry
Locks POC Ryan Tuohy Toner
Backrow SOB Ferris Heaslip POM Henry
SH Redden Murray Boss
OH Sexton Madigan ROG
Centers BOD, McFadden, Cave, Wallace
Backthree Fitzgerald Kearney Trimble Gilroy

No Earls or Bowe?

WeeBushy

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Bowe is injured and will miss the tour

Oops, I had blocked that out of my memory

CatFromHue

It's hard to know how we'll get in to be honest as I'm not sure about what we'll be up against. Two of the biggest recruiting grounds for the All Blacks in the Super 15's aren't doing too great at the moment. The Auckland Blues have only won 1 from 6 and today Mealamu publicly stated his disappointment in the physical state of Weepu, seemingly Weepu came back from holidays over weight and is still not of the fitness level required. The Crusaders are doing better but are still only 3 from 6.

Then there is the fact that Carter is only coming back from injury now, McCaw is still not back, Colin Slade is out for the season, and so is Kaino.

Also the Kiwi's don't expect much from us and the 3 tests could be a bit of RWC trophy parade.

What state we'll be in is a different matter.

Deano7788

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Ok, so off the back of a somewhat disappointing Six Nations campaign, Kidney's men will be heading to New Zealand to attempt to record a first victory against the All Blacks this summer.
Tour Itinerary
JUNE 2012
Sat 9th Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Eden Park
Sat 16th Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Rugby League Park
Sat 23rd Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Waikato Stadium

Does anyone think Ireland will break their duck against the ABs or will it be three losses in a row?
In terms of squad selection, I hope that Kidney will experiment a little bit with some young players such as Ian Madigan or Simon Zebo and phase out some of the older campaigners.
If I were to pick a 30 man squad to travel, it would look something like this:
PROPS: Cian Healy; Mike Ross; Marcus Horan; Stephen Archer
HOOKERS: Rory Best; Sean Cronin; Damien Varley
SECOND ROWS: O'Connell; Donncha Ryan; Dan Tuohy
BACK ROWS: Stephen Ferris; Sean O'Brien; Peter O'Mahony;Kevin McLaughlin; Dominic Ryan; Chris Henry; Jamie Heaslip
SCRUM HALVES: Isaac Boss; Conor Murray
OUT HALVES: Jonny Sexton; Ian Madigan; ROG
CENTRES: BOD; Keith Earls; Fergus McFadden; Eoin O'Malley
BACK THREE: Rob Kearney; Simon Zebo; Andrew Trimble; Denis Hurley

Anyway let me know your thoughts on the tour and the squad

I'd have Court and Hagan in place of Horan and Archer, and I'd like to see Sherry in place of Varley, although it probably won't happen.

I think your squad would be too light on 2nd rows and 2 top heavy with back rows. 1 injury and we'd be stuck. I'd leave McLaughlin and Ryan at home and bring McCarthy instead, who can also cover backrow if needed along with Ryan.

For scrum half, I'd bring Reddan and Marshall ahead of Boss. I'd have Reddan as 1st choice and think Marshall would be the perfect sub to bring off the bench.

I think your centres are unbalanced imo with only 1 12. so I'd leave out O'Malley and bring Wallace. I'd also probably drop ROG and bring Cave. I really don't see the point in bringing ROG as if he's to come on to "close out the game", the match will probably already be lost. Madigan imo would make a bigger impact off the bench, while Cave would be a good back up to BOD with Earls as a utility back.

I'd also swap Hurley and Zebo for Fitzgerald and Gilroy/D.Kearney. Hurley just doesn't have the pace for international rugby, while Fitzgerald is the in form wing in Ireland. Gilroy/Kearney are more complete wings than Zebo at the moment.

To be honest, if we're to have any chance of winning a match, it'll have to be the 1st test, when the All Blacks are still getting used to playing with each others, as there'll a good few changes to the team. After that, though, I think we'll struggle.

Judgement Day

Three straight losses I suspect but despite my infatuation with the All Blacks I'd be more than happy to see Ireland break the duck.

Hagz

Judgement Day wrote: »

Three straight losses I suspect but despite my infatuation with the All Blacks I'd be more than happy to see Ireland break the duck.

I presume you've been keeping up to date with the S15 Judge(I haven't). How wrong is my expected XV ?
1. Woodcock
2. Hore
3. Franks
4. Whitelock
5. Williams
6. Kaino
7. McCaw
8. Reid
9. Hurricanes 9? What's his name?
10. Carter
11. Gear
12. Nonu
13. Smith
14. Jane
15. Dagg

ray jay

At first I was surprised that people weren't including more inside centres in their selections but then I remembered we have Sexton to cover that now

CIARAN_BOYLE

WeeBushy wrote: »

No Earls or Bowe?

Earls probably will make it, most likely ahead of Gilroy who was my experimental choice on the wing or Wallace (with BOD or Fitzgerald covering 12) or McFadden since Kidney doesn't seem to rate him at 12 or Cave. Or else a bigger touring party will be brought than 30.

TBH I think Cave is the better 13 and if Earls only plays there between now and the end of the season it might be wrong to bring him as a winger but I think he will make it ahead of Cave/McFadden/Wallace/Gilroy.

RoundBox11

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Ok, so off the back of a somewhat disappointing Six Nations campaign, Kidney's men will be heading to New Zealand to attempt to record a first victory against the All Blacks this summer.
Tour Itinerary
JUNE 2012
Sat 9th Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Eden Park
Sat 16th Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Rugby League Park
Sat 23rd Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Waikato Stadium

Does anyone think Ireland will break their duck against the ABs or will it be three losses in a row?
In terms of squad selection, I hope that Kidney will experiment a little bit with some young players such as Ian Madigan or Simon Zebo and phase out some of the older campaigners.
If I were to pick a 30 man squad to travel, it would look something like this:
PROPS: Cian Healy; Mike Ross; Marcus Horan; Stephen Archer
HOOKERS: Rory Best; Sean Cronin; Damien Varley
SECOND ROWS: O'Connell; Donncha Ryan; Dan Tuohy
BACK ROWS: Stephen Ferris; Sean O'Brien; Peter O'Mahony;Kevin McLaughlin; Dominic Ryan; Chris Henry; Jamie Heaslip
SCRUM HALVES: Isaac Boss; Conor Murray
OUT HALVES: Jonny Sexton; Ian Madigan; ROG
CENTRES: BOD; Keith Earls; Fergus McFadden; Eoin O'Malley
BACK THREE: Rob Kearney; Simon Zebo; Andrew Trimble; Denis Hurley

Anyway let me know your thoughts on the tour and the squad

Thanks for starting the thread!

I respect your opinion and all but i hope to god that none of the players in bold above come near the plane to NZ.

Id replace Horan with any of: Court, Wilkinson, Loughney, McAllister, McGrath.

I'd rather see Loughney instead of Archer anyways and i'd probably rather have Hagan or Andress instead of Archer but neither have a chance really.

No Eoin Reddan either??

I'd like to see Felix Jones ahead of Hurley and i think Fitzgerald and Gilroy has more than earned his place ahead of Zebo.

.ak

Choice for 9 will be interesting allright. Weepu has been a bit of a joke lately.

.ak

To be honest I don't know why there's even enough interest in this to start a thread on this.

I find it incredibly hard to get excited/interested in anything in regarding the Irish setup whilst the IRFU/coaching setup remains the way it is.

When Stuart Barnes if even calling it how it is, you know things are bad.

TheKeenMachine

Hagz wrote: »

Just looking at your squad
I wouldn't take Archer. I'd take Macklin if we're to take a young tight-head.

Don't think Ryan deserves to travel based on how little he's featured this season, I think Coughlan deserves to travel ahead of him, although Coughlan is injured so if he can't go I'd like to see Ruddock go instead.

How you can leave out Reddan is beyond me

Doubt he'll leave D'Arcy behind, I'd also take Wallace and Cave and have McFadden travel as wing option(not that I'd play him on the wing, I'd have him come as a centre who can cover wing)

Looking at your back-three makes me grimace. Hurley shouldn't go, nor should Zebo.

My choice
LH: Healy, Court
HK: Best, Cronin, Sherry
TH: Ross, Macklin
LK: O'Connell, Ryan, Tuohy, O'Callaghan
FK: Ferris, O'Brien, Henry, O'Mahony
N8: Heaslip, Coughlan
SH: Reddan, Boss, Murray
OH: Sexton, Madigan, O'Gara
CT: D'Arcy, Wallace, Cave, O'Driscoll
WG: Earls, Trimble, Fitzgerald, McFadden
FB: Kearney, Jones

Deano7788 wrote: »

I'd have Court and Hagan in place of Horan and Archer, and I'd like to see Sherry in place of Varley, although it probably won't happen.

I think your squad would be too light on 2nd rows and 2 top heavy with back rows. 1 injury and we'd be stuck. I'd leave McLaughlin and Ryan at home and bring McCarthy instead, who can also cover backrow if needed along with Ryan.

For scrum half, I'd bring Reddan and Marshall ahead of Boss. I'd have Reddan as 1st choice and think Marshall would be the perfect sub to bring off the bench.

I think your centres are unbalanced imo with only 1 12. so I'd leave out O'Malley and bring Wallace. I'd also probably drop ROG and bring Cave. I really don't see the point in bringing ROG as if he's to come on to "close out the game", the match will probably already be lost. Madigan imo would make a bigger impact off the bench, while Cave would be a good back up to BOD with Earls as a utility back.

I'd also swap Hurley and Zebo for Fitzgerald and Gilroy/D.Kearney. Hurley just doesn't have the pace for international rugby, while Fitzgerald is the in form wing in Ireland. Gilroy/Kearney are more complete wings than Zebo at the moment.

To be honest, if we're to have any chance of winning a match, it'll have to be the 1st test, when the All Blacks are still getting used to playing with each others, as there'll a good few changes to the team. After that, though, I think we'll struggle.

I think picking between Archer, Hagan and Macklin is a matter of preference. IMO Tom Court has never been good enough to play Test rugby and it would be a waste of a plane ticket to bring him, much rather see Horan, who is a much better scrummager, but I forgot about Brett Wilkinson who is better than them both. However, While I agree Dominic Ryan has been lacking in game time, I would like to see his development and would pick him regardless. McLaughlin would be my second row option as opposed to McCarthy.

Completely forgot about Reddan, mea culpa. Marshall was a tight call but I decided to plump for Boss.

IMO Paddy Wallace is also overrated and not Test quality although it may be an idea to bring Cave as opposed to ROG. I like Hurley, and I reckon he deserves a chance to shine with Ireland. I also believe that Zebo is possibly the brightest talent in Ireland and we have to bring him. Gilroy and Fitzy do deserve a shout though.

thomond2006

.ak wrote: »

Choice for 9 will be interesting allright. Weepu has been a bit of a joke lately.

He was owned by Mealamu in the media today for turning up to pre season in an awful state of fitness. Hasn't been making the Blues starting line up lately either.

For the Ireland squad (30) I'd go for:

(16)

Hookers: Best, Cronin, Sherry

Props: Healy, Court, Ross, Loughney (no other choice really!)

Locks: POC, Tuohy, Ryan, Toner

Backrows: Ferris, SOB, POM, Henry, Heaslip

(14)

9s: Reddan, Murray, Marshall

10s: Sexton, Madigan, ROG

Centres: Wallace, McFadden, Cave, BOD, Earls

Wingers: Fitzgerald, Trimble, Gilroy

Fullbacks: Kearney

But tbh we're ****ed!!

Judgement Day

Hagz wrote: »

I presume you've been keeping up to date with the S15 Judge(I haven't). How wrong is my expected XV ?
1. Woodcock
2. Hore
3. Franks
4. Whitelock
5. Williams
6. Kaino
7. McCaw....still not back.
8. Reid
9. Hurricanes 9? What's his name? Weepu (Blues) but he's not going well so far this season.
10. Carter
11. Gear or Guilford
12. Nonu
13. Smith
14. Jane
15. Dagg

I'll be honest I haven't been able to watch much of it and have been going on highlights and press reports. Dan Carter is obviously key and last week took on kicking duties again in the game against the Bulls. That bodes well for them but bad for us.

RoundBox11

I'm actually really looking forward to this. Last time we played the All Blacks we really stood up well, even though we were missing some key players. My squad 32 man squad would be:


Props: Healy, Ross, Court, Loughney, Hagan

Hookers: Best, Cronin, Sherry

2nd Row: O'Connell, Ryan, Tuohy, Toner (although i know DOC will be there. Tbh i think DOC would do a good job anyway so i wouldnt be too upset to see him there).

Back Row: Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, O'Mahony, Henry

Scrum Halves: Reddan, Murray

Out Halves: Sexton, ROG, Madigan

Centres: BOD, McFadden, O'Malley, Cave (BOD being able to cover 12 aswell)

Wings: Earls, Trimble, Fitzgerald, Gilroy

Fullback: Kearney, Jones


I think we will have at least one good close match. I don't see why we couldnt beat them. I mean no team is forever unbeatable and i wouldn't say this is the strongest All Black squad ever. . .

Hagz

I think it's harsh on Court to say he's not Test quality. True, he's a fairly average player, but I think he has to travel. He's part of a Ulster team that is now in the HC SF and he has a part to play in that. Horan is definitely not Test level. The guy had to back up against Ross until they both got sin-binned. Wilkinson is a very untested player though I would have no qualms about him traveling. If I had to drop Court for someone, it would be Loughney, just because he could be more "ambipropsterous'.

Wallace is not one of my favorite players, but D'Arcy has been so out of form in green that Wallace arguably deserves a shot ahead of him.

Hagz

Judgement Day wrote: »

I'll be honest I haven't been able to watch much of it and have been going on highlights and press reports. Dan Carter is obviously key and last week took on kicking duties again in the game against the Bulls. That bodes well for them but bad for us.

TJ Perenara was the scrum-half I was trying to think of. Apparently Weepu has been muck lately.

its_phil

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

I think picking between Archer, Hagan and Macklin is a matter of preference. IMO Tom Court has never been good enough to play Test rugby and it would be a waste of a plane ticket to bring him, much rather see Horan, who is a much better scrummager, but I forgot about Brett Wilkinson who is better than them both.

Loughney is the best option for the sub prop role right now in my opinion. He's a natural loosehead who is consistently playing at tight head and doing an extremely good job. Think you are being very harsh on Court, until the IRB introduce 23 subs he's always going to struggle at TH. He's capable on LH. Expecting a LH who is not even playing at TH for Ulster (open to correction) to produce wonders against a very good England front row in the hardest role on a rugby field is far too ambitious.

thebaz

Hagz wrote: »

I think it's harsh on Court to say he's not Test quality.

Harsh ????? - more like the truth

irishbucsfan

thebaz wrote: »

Hagz wrote: »

I think it's harsh on Court to say he's not Test quality.

Harsh ????? - more like the truth

At loosehead he is excellent. Showed that last weekend.

Podge_irl

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

IMO Tom Court has never been good enough to play Test rugby and it would be a waste of a plane ticket to bring him, much rather see Horan, who is a much better scrummager

Tom Court is easily as good as Horan at loosehead and obviously leagues ahead of him at tighthead. The rap Court gets is ridiculous - he is a decent test standard loosehead. He is a sub standard tight head but the only options for a bench prop are him or Loughney.

its_phil

thebaz wrote: »

Harsh ????? - more like the truth

On the evidence of what outside him playing TH?

Hagz

thebaz wrote: »

Harsh ????? - more like the truth

If Court isn't test quality for Ireland, then Horan isn't quality enough to wear an Elverys Ireland jersey. Court is streaks ahead of Horan and any other LH in this country outside Healy atm.

CiaranMT

Why only 30? They'll be playing a few midweek matches over there too, no?

Piliger

The last tour was the depth of embarrassment. But I fear this one may be even worse ...

Podge_irl

CiaranMT wrote: »

Why only 30? They'll be playing a few midweek matches over there too, no?

Nope, just 3 tests.

Think it might be a 32 man squad personally, just for that bit extra back up. Only the first XV will get any real game time though.