Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

jm08

Quint2010 wrote: »

Cullen is 34 I think.

In fairness to Cullen, he might have called it a day on his international career to prolong his club career. Don't forget he picked the 6Ns to have his operation.

jm08

bamboozle wrote: »

why couldnt they make it a 30 man squad or a 32 man squad and bring along Gilroy, Madigan & McLaughlin. No doubt we'll see withdrawals before they leave and we'll probably see lads flying over to replace injured players.

McLaughlin must be the most underrated player in Ireland by a long distance.

Chances are that Zebo will be holding tackle bags for this tour. I can't see him getting ahead of Earls, Trimble or McFadden - and the last 2 are 2nd choice wingers with Bowe & Fitz out.

McLaughlin isn't under rated - Ferris and SOB are ahead of him in the pecking order so its down to his versatility after that. D Ryan & POM are more useful in that respect.

Flincher

thomond2006 wrote: »

Typical Munster biased crap again, Zebo over Gilroy is madness.

Is it really though? Neither are close to the finished article. Zebo has racked up the tries this season, while not getting a whole lot of decent ball. I don't think there's a whole lot between them.

Defensively, both are fairly poor. Gilroy has better awareness of those around him. Zebo has a better kicking game. Both are capable of flashes of brilliance, and scoring a try out of nothing. Both have a hell of a lot to learn.

Its close to a 50/50 call, not necessarily bias.

(Though I'd have gone for Gilroy as well)

GerM

Zebo, Sherry, Henry, Fitzpatrick, Cave and Boss to start no games. Suspect a few of them won't even make a match day squad unless injury occurs. Surprised at how small a squad it is. 29 players for three tests against NZ is very light. Scotland are taking 28 players to play Australia, Fiji and Samoa spread over a longer time. Wales are taking 38 to Australia for three tests. If Ferris picks up a knock, as is hardly unusual, we'll be down to 4 back row players for the remainder of the tour on the other side of the planet. Really think we need another 3 or 4 players: another back row player, someone to cover outhalf and a back three player. Trimble, McFadden and Earls are our only wingers. An injury to any back three player and Zebo is in a test 22 against NZ although injury has crucified us in this area.

EDIT: To put it in context, we took 34 players for 2 tests and 1 midweek match in 2010 and needed every man.

Quint2010

jm08 wrote: »

In fairness to Cullen, he might have called it a day on his international career to prolong his club career. Don't forget he picked the 6Ns to have his operation.

True but he didnt actually come out and say he was retired. I just thought with POC doubtful he might have gotten in for his ability to lead. The fact he is playing better rugby than DOC should also have been a consideration.

its_phil

Fitzpatrick and Wilkinson picked over Loughney does not make sense. Who the hell is going to cover both sides of the scrum? You would think you'd learn your lesson after Twickenham.

Donnacha O'Callaghan over McCarthy and Toner is abysmal.

If Zebo had played better than Gilroy or Kearney this year, fair enough. But he hasn't imo and both those lads can feel pretty despondent this morning.

Classic Kidney. I remember when he got the job, that his appointment was to be a relief to the same old selections by EOS. He did it with Munster vs Gloucester surely he'd do the same with Ireland when needs be. But no this EOS 2.0 with a better backroom staff.

Fishooks12

TBH I'm finding it very hard to get in anyway excited about these tests

If we had a decent coach we could be rightfully optimistic about having a realistic hope of winning the series

As things stand we'll probably get drubbed in 2 and come out with a heroic loss in the other

CatFromHue

Wales are playing a mid week game against The Brumbies between the first and second test so that's why they'll have a much bigger squad.

In all likelihood there will be two to three injury enforced changes to the first 15 between the first and third test.

If NZ win the first two games and then make a raft of changes for the third test I'd still expect our strongest possible team to start. As mentioned previously any win in NZ will pretty much make us safe in the top 8 at the end of the year.

Tox56

The fact the press were suggesting BOD at 12 a while ago makes me think they have picked something up from Kidney. There is only D'Arcy as a full-time 12 (Kidney doesn't seem to rate McFadden there), while there are two 13's (excluding McFadden).

Wouldn't be a bad idea, but the idea of "no experimentation" Kidney was talking about leads me to believe Earls/BOD is the only possible combination.

Realistically, there would be ample opportunity for Cave and Earls to play outside BOD, but who knows, BOD/D'Arcy for all 3 tests is what we have come to expect..

thomond2006

It's not as daunting as one would think. The ABs are missing their first choice wingers (Jane and Kahui), Nonu and Weepu are playing for a struggling Blues side, Kaino is injured, Thorn is gone while Carter is still working his way back to full fitness with his troublesome groin problem. Richie McCaw is also getting back to full fitness.

Still, realistically our only chance of a win is the 1st test, after that the ABs will get their **** together. I've been really impressed with Hansen's comments in the media, no place to hide for underperforming players.

Unfortunately Paulie's injury and the fact we are travelling with one capable outhalf will come back to haunt us.

Winters

CatFromHue wrote: »

England are playing two mid week friendlies hence the larger squad.

Ireland are only playing test matches.

I know that, if fact I alluded to that in my post. My point was that we should have taken NZRFU up on the offer of a midweek test.

Seph503

Tox56 wrote: »

The fact the press were suggesting BOD at 12 a while ago makes me think they have picked something up from Kidney. There is only D'Arcy as a full-time 12 (Kidney doesn't seem to rate McFadden there), while there are two 13's (excluding McFadden).

No Tox you see Sexton covers 12 too!! He covers 12 very well in games after the 60-65 minute mark.

totallegend

Cover at out-half?? O'Gara has, allegedly, been carrying a knock for the last couple of weeks. Paddy Wallace has been left out, despite being the form 12 in the country. So what happens if something happens to either Sexton or O'Gara?? Fly Jackson over from SA?

And of course, it wouldn't be a Kidney selection without Munster bias riding roughshod over less important things like form, ability and experience. Zebo ahead of Gilroy??? Get up the f**king yard Declan.

Tox56

Seph503 wrote: »

No Tox you see Sexton covers 12 too!! He covers 12 very well in games after the 60-65 minute mark.

Fair point, if the game is close this is a virtual certainty.

Fishooks12

Classic Kidney trolling, just when the majority of fans start to realise that Wallace is a quality center he goes and drops him!

CatFromHue

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's not as daunting as one would think. The ABs are missing their first choice wingers (Jane and Kahui), Nonu and Weepu are playing for a struggling Blues side, Kaino is injured, Thorn is gone while Carter is still working his way back to full fitness with his troublesome groin problem. Richie McCaw is also getting back to full fitness.

Still, realistically our only chance of a win is the 1st test, after that the ABs will get their **** together. I've been really impressed with Hansen's comments in the media, no place to hide for underperforming players.

I can't really comment in too much detail as I haven't seen enough of the Super 15 to do so.

If you think back to last season NZ had a big problem at half back as Weepu, Cowan, and Ellis were all tried but none were really great. Weepu isn't getting his game ads much any more and neither is Cowan. So they do have some other options coming through. They have four scrum halves in the training squad for the Ireland games; Andy Ellis, Piri Weepu, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Aaron Smith. Of the lot you'd expect Weepu to drop out in the final cut.

I don't see a major problem at 12 as they have SBW to fill in.

Carter and McCaw are on their way back to full fitness now. Carter was at 10 on the weekend and was goal kicking too.

Thorn is gone but they have Whitelock to fill in.

Kaino is a big loss though.

How long left on the contract?

Someone needs to make a countdown clock website please...

thomond2006

Tox56 wrote: »

Fair point, if the game is close this is a virtual certainty.

oh jesus no, we can't go down that ****ing road again

sydthebeat

Is there any real point bringing a third hooker in Sherry?

When strauss becomes available for selection surely sherry will be pushed out to 4th choice...

and madigan should be brought... obviously o gara wont be around for the next WC so madigan should be reserve 10... games against the provincals and/or maoris would be great experience for him... and not of any real use to o gara / sexton.

Tox56

sydthebeat wrote: »

Is there any real point bringing a third hooker in Sherry?

When strauss becomes available for selection surely sherry will be pushed out to 4th choice...

and madigan should be brought... obviously o gara wont be around for the next WC so madigan should be reserve 10... games against the provincals and/or maoris would be great experience for him... and not of any real use to o gara / sexton.

Well if Best or Cronin get injured, who do we put on the bench?

totallegend

sydthebeat wrote: »

Is there any real point bringing a third hooker in Sherry?

When strauss becomes available for selection surely sherry will be pushed out to 4th choice...

Ah you can't go on tour with only two hookers, I think Sherry is there by default rather than any great prospect of being in the team in the next year or two.

sydthebeat wrote: »

and madigan should be brought... obviously o gara wont be around for the next WC so madigan should be reserve 10... games against the provincals and/or maoris would be great experience for him... and not of any real use to o gara / sexton.

For me, it's not about experience for Madigan/Jackson, because there's no way Kidney would bench O'Gara, but it's about covering the squad. What happens if Sexton or O'Gara tweaks something the day before the game?

Tox56

thomond2006 wrote: »

oh jesus no, we can't go down that ****ing road again

You can say that about most of this selection, just have to play a waiting game until his contract runs out, hopefully putting in a good performance or two along the way to entice a new coach to come in who can see the potential in these players.

d-gal

Hope Darcy, rog and doc don't start a game, it's a joke they are included.

Leaving McCarthy, D.Kearney and Gilroy out is criminal. I'd give Zebo a chance tho, he is playing with sh*t around him all year and still scoring tries for fun.
I wouldn't be against a pairing of BOD and Earls. It's worth a shot and its better than Darcy in it. Cave merits a chance as well.

Seen loughney in town last week, he has put on a ridiculous amount of size and hopefully he can prove himself as the no.17 Ireland needs

cgpg5

Can't see why he isn't giving Madigan an opportunity surely now is as good a chance as any to introduce him into the international environment. Pointless bringing Rog imo, apparently not even operating at full fitness and he won't be an option come WC 2015 (although this is Kidney we're on about!).

its_phil

sydthebeat wrote: »

Is there any real point bringing a third hooker in Sherry?

I was saying the same to myself earlier, but remembered that you need to have a hooker on the bench. So if Cronin/Best gets injured, you need to have their replacement on hand to step onto bench while being familiar with lineout calls is vital too.

GerM

The NZ production line isn't stopping anytime soon. 12 of their squad are 23 or younger. Whilst any side would miss the likes of Kaino but they'll just bring Vito or Thompson in who are more than capable replacements. Brodie Retallick looks like he could go on to win 50 caps at lock. Absolute beast of a bloke and only 20 years old. He'll definitely start a game against us, I would think and the absence of Thorn will suddenly look a lot less daunting.

McCaw and Carter will be fully fit come the tests. NZ have three quarters coming out their ears. They can lose Kahui and Jane and throw in the likes of Savea who is absolutely electric and will get his first start too in one of the matches.

I think we'll give it our all in the opening game and lose gloriously. They'll change things up a good bit for the second game and come in fresh and eager with some young caps. We'll make minimal changes and run out of steam. They'll combine the best youngsters with the McCaws and Carters for the final test to try and see how things gel ahead of the Tri-Nations at which point we'll be short two or three players due to injuries and lose comfortably.

dtpc191991

Ridiculous selection by Kidney. How can he leave out Gilroy, Wallace, Madigan, and select O'Mahony over Henry. He has got to go!!!!

Banbridgeman

No McLaughlin,Toner,Madigan,Gilroy or Wallace but O'Gara, O'Callaghan and Zebo are there. It really is a joke. You'd have to wonder if Kidney has been watching Munster this season!

cgpg5

What does Kevin McLauchlin have to do? Thought Wallace was immense for ulster too and have been very impressed by Gilroy. Won't even bother criticising the Doc selection he'll probably still be selected when he's 40!

sydthebeat

Tox56 wrote: »

Well if Best or Cronin get injured, who do we put on the bench?

we went to aus / nz in 2010 with 4 hooker (5 if you count best being named before being injured)....

varley got 30 minutes versus maoris and 5 minutes v australia
fogarty got 5 minutes v ABs

we sent for varley as cover... we could do the same again