Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

Fishooks12

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Ridiculous selection by Kidney. How can he leave out Gilroy, Wallace, Madigan, and select O'Mahony over Henry. He has got to go!!!!

Firstly, Henry is in the squad if he's fit, secondly POM has been fantastic this season and one of a few bright lights at Munster. He deserves to be in the squad

Oh and thirdly, POM is more recognized as a 6 whereas Henry is a 7

Teferi

What a largely uninspiring selection.

sydthebeat

totallegend wrote: »

For me, it's not about experience for Madigan/Jackson, because there's no way Kidney would bench O'Gara, but it's about covering the squad. What happens if Sexton or O'Gara tweaks something the day before the game?

ive a feeling kidney would go for wallace as cover if pushed....

Teferi

And I'm worse because I am surprised by this.

its_phil

Criticism of D'Arcy is harsh. I think he deserves his place in the squad. His attack isn't what it use to be but I still think he's the best defender in this country along with BOD. He is one of those players that needs to bring his club form right now to the international game.

That said would not have complained if Wallace was picked ahead of him.

Tox56

sydthebeat wrote: »

we went to aus / nz in 2010 with 4 hooker (5 if you count best being named before being injured)....

varley got 30 minutes versus maoris and 5 minutes v australia
fogarty got 5 minutes v ABs

we sent for varley as cover... we could do the same again

What difference does it make, you might as well expose him to the set-up and how things operate even if he doesn't play. If someone gets injured he can go on the bench just as he would if he was flown in as cover.

Fishooks12

sydthebeat wrote: »

ive a feeling kidney would go for wallace as cover if pushed....

Not sure if he would considering McFadden is presumably in the squad along with Earls as a versatile back

One would think that if ROG or Sexton were to get injured Kidney would bring in another out and out 10

Podge_irl

I wouldn't take McLaughlin over any of the backrows named so pointless to moan about him not going. It's a position of strength and he just lacks that bit of top end power. Happy to have him for start of next season with Leinster.

GerM

sydthebeat wrote: »

we sent for varley as cover... we could do the same again

Varley is injured. You can't just send a hooker as cover for such a specialised position. It takes a couple of days to get to NZ. If Best damages a hamstring in the captains run there's nothing can be done.

fitz

GerM wrote: »

I think we'll give it our all in the opening game and lose gloriously. They'll change things up a good bit for the second game and come in fresh and eager with some young caps. We'll make minimal changes and run out of steam. They'll combine the best youngsters with the McCaws and Carters for the final test to try and see how things gel ahead of the Tri-Nations at which point we'll be short two or three players due to injuries and lose comfortably.

This is exactly what I reckon will happen.
Not in the least surprised by the squad selection.
Kidney gonna Kidney.

GerM

Podge_irl wrote: »

I wouldn't take McLaughlin over any of the backrows named so pointless to moan about him not going. It's a position of strength and he just lacks that bit of top end power. Happy to have him for start of next season with Leinster.

Neither would I really but I'd be strongly of the opinion that they need another back row player badly in addition. Too small a squad to manage three full blooded tests against the best side in the world. I won't be surprised if we see Dan Tuohy appear in the back row at some point or Earls at full back.

Heroditas

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Oh and thirdly, POM is more recognized as a 6 whereas Henry is a 7

The problem with Henry is that he has played a lot of his career at 6 or 8 for Ulster.
He lacked any real power carrying the ball so was shunted from 8 to 6.
From there, he was just a bit too short to be a real lineout option and act as a destructive blindside so then got shunted to 7.
He's relatively mobile but, in my opinion, he's a decent jack of all trades and maybe a useful bench option. However, I don't think he should be anywhere close to being a starting player in an Irish squad - certainly not if POM is in form, along with Ferris, O'Brien and Heaslip.
In fact, I can see the likes of Ruddock and Dom Ryan knocking Henry down the pecking order within a season or two.

Fishooks12

Can't see the BOD Darcy center partnership lasting the 3 games, would be madness to start BOD in more than 2 anyway

Really hope Earls/Cave get a shot at 13 with McFadden at 12

Heroditas

Heroditas wrote: »

The problem with Henry is that he has played a lot of his career at 6 or 8 for Ulster.
He lacked any real power carrying the ball so was shunted from 8 to 6.
From there, he was just a bit too short to be a real lineout option and act as a destructive blindside so then got shunted to 7.
He's relatively mobile but, in my opinion, he's a decent jack of all trades and maybe a useful bench option. However, I don't think he should be anywhere close to being a starting player in an Irish squad - certainly not if POM is in form, along with Ferris, O'Brien and Heaslip.
In fact, I can see the likes of Ruddock and Dom Ryan knocking Henry down the pecking order within a season or two.

Henry was probably better than Ferris this season at Ulster.

That's a shocking but true sentence.

Fishooks12

Deleted User wrote: »

Henry was probably better than Ferris this season at Ulster.

That's a shocking but true sentence.

Ya Henry has had a fantastic season

I'd still have him behind SOB for the 7 shirt but he deserves to be in the squad

Heroditas

Deleted User wrote: »

Henry was probably better than Ferris this season at Ulster.

That's a shocking but true sentence.

True enough. However, there are better options at both 6 and 7 than Henry when it comes to the Irish team.

Podge_irl

Henry is an excellent 7 and has the advantage over POM of actually, you know, playing at 7. We'll (rightly) see POM on the bench but if SOB got injured I'd leap Henry into the starting berth.

I agree they could do with another backrow though I don't really know who would best fit the bill.

Fishooks12

15 Kearney
14 Trimble
13 BOD
12 Darcy
11 Earls
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Heaslip
7 SOB
6 Ferris
5 D Ryan
4 DOC
3 Ross
2 Best
1 Healy

Knowing Kidney that's probably what the team for the first test will be, I've highlighted the players that shouldn't be there on form too

Darcy had a good HC final but Wallace is the better 12 now and he's not even in the squad

Murray has loads of potential but I can't help but feel that the increased pressure of an International starting place has caused his form to dip this year. Way too early for him to be starting, in the squad alright but Boss and Reddan are both ahead of him in terms of ability and form

DOC really doesn't need explaining at this stage

shuffol

Who is Fullback cover anyway? That would've been another reason to opt for D.Kearney as he can play there. I think this is an area where we could do with kidney trying to exercise some influence over the provinces, we've a plethora of young wingers in the country but a shortage of fullbacks, Leinster should be requested to give as much time at 15 to D.Kearney as possible when Rob is being rested.

Fishooks12

shuffol wrote: »

Who is Fullback cover anyway? That would've been another reason to opt for D.Kearney as he can play there. I think this is an area where we could do with kidney trying to exercise some influence over the provinces, we've a plethora of young wingers in the country but a shortage of fullbacks, Leinster should be requested to give as much time at 15 to D.Kearney as possible when Rob is being rested.

I'd imagine Earls would slot back if Kearney were to get injured

I agree though. Is there a case for looking at Gilroy at fullback for Ulster next season?

Rigor Mortis

DOC and Darcy selection make no sense.

On the kicking front tje ROG selection makes some sense. Madigan still cannot kick with any degree of consistency and until that is sorted it means that McFadden would need to be playing (and Ferg is a good but not great goal kicker).

I guess another option is start Wallace at 12, but despite how well he has played for Ulster he has consistently underperformed in green and a run out now will not help his skill development in the manner it would others.

Tox56

shuffol wrote: »

Who is Fullback cover anyway? That would've been another reason to opt for D.Kearney as he can play there. I think this is an area where we could do with kidney trying to exercise some influence over the provinces, we've a plethora of young wingers in the country but a shortage of fullbacks, Leinster should be requested to give as much time at 15 to D.Kearney as possible when Rob is being rested.

Presumably Earls is cover, and when Rob is rested you have Isa Nacewa as back up, hard to make a case for D Kearney to get ahead of Isa, especially when he (Kearney) has been so good on the wing this season.

fitz

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

DOC and Darcy selection make no sense.

On the kicking front tje ROG selection makes some sense. Madigan still cannot kick with any degree of consistency and until that is sorted it means that McFadden would need to be playing (and Ferg is a good but not great goal kicker).

I guess another option is start Wallace at 12, but despite how well he has played for Ulster he has consistently underperformed in green and a run out now will not help his skill development in the manner it would others.

Nonsense.
Check out his kicking record.
When he does kick, he kicks well.

Clegg

Sorry, but it's a absolute travesty that Zebo has been picked ahead of D. Kearnry and Gilroy. Paddy Wallace is in the best form of his life and Kidney still won't pick him. What else do these lads have to do to get picked?

I see ROG and DOC are still in the squad despite them having terrible seasons for Irelans and their provice. I despair, I really do.

Heroditas

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

I guess another option is start Wallace at 12, but despite how well he has played for Ulster he has consistently underperformed in green

He's rarely even got a chance to perform in green. He was almost always restricted to brief cameos and then when he finally got a chance to bed down into the 12 position he got a couple of unlucky head injuries.
We never saw enough of him in a green jersey to say he underperformed IMO.

CIARAN_BOYLE

shuffol wrote: »

Who is Fullback cover anyway? That would've been another reason to opt for D.Kearney as he can play there. I think this is an area where we could do with kidney trying to exercise some influence over the provinces, we've a plethora of young wingers in the country but a shortage of fullbacks, Leinster should be requested to give as much time at 15 to D.Kearney as possible when Rob is being rested.

Fitzgerald got a few run outs at 15 this season when Rob is being rested, Leinster did try to make an IQ backup FB available but he is injured.

Podge_irl

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

On the kicking front tje ROG selection makes some sense. Madigan still cannot kick with any degree of consistency and until that is sorted it means that McFadden would need to be playing (and Ferg is a good but not great goal kicker).

That's a whole lot of wrong in one paragraph.

Madigan kicks with a great degree of consistency, he just doesn't kick very often. Any time he actually has done it he has kicked very respectably.

Ferg also clearly is a great goal kicker. He had one bad performance this year, which has ruined his stats, but was otherwise excellent in some absolutely horrendous conditions. I only remember him having one other bad kicking performance in several years which is a great record.

And picking ROG on the kicking front still makes no sense even if those things were true. It makes absolutely zero sense to hamstring your team by putting in a player so utterly one-dimensional and out of form in the most pivotal position on the pitch just so he can kick an extra goal or two.

CatFromHue

Dave Kearney played full back away to The Dragons a few weeks ago. Nacewa was an unused sub that day.

shuffol

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Fitzgerald got a few run outs at 15 this season when Rob is being rested, Leinster did try to make an IQ backup FB available but he is injured.

Did he? Cant recall any games myself, I think we've seen that Fitz hasnt the game for fullback, playing there last season for Ireland destroyed his form and confidence which he only got back this season when moved back to wing. I'd love to see Kearney given a few opportunities there, he's solid under the high ball, runs great lines at pace and can break a tackle. Its just a situation where I think we could do with some joined up thinking between Kidney and the provinces.

mystic86

Clegg wrote: »

Sorry, but it's a absolute travesty that Zebo has been picked ahead of D. Kearnry and Gilroy.

nonsense