Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

Not wanting to kick the hornet's nest or anything, but ROG shouldn't be on that team sheet. Madigan or Keatley should be there.

I don't think Madigan is there yet. Great season and bucket loads of potential, but would you have been comfortable with him starting on Saturday? I wouldn't have been. He needs another year at least. As for Keatley I think he has potential too, but hasn't been getting the game time. He should def be first choice ahead of ROG for Munster next season.

I don't think we have any other realistic out-half options other than Sexton and ROG going up against big opposition. We should look to give one or both of those 2 some time in the AIs off the bench though. Give them a shot in camp and on-field to start looking to stake a claim.

Podge_irl

Very odd to see more Munster backs in the squad then forwards!

Earls could make a fairly good job of playing at 15, but he needs to stick to one position. He seems to have nailed his colours to the 13 mast, but with BOD and Cave in the squad I think he's gonna end up being shifted out to wing again.

Podge_irl

Very odd to see more Munster backs in the squad then forwards!

Earls could make a fairly good job of playing at 15, but he needs to stick to one position. He seems to have nailed his colours to the 13 mast, but with BOD and Cave in the squad I think he's gonna end up being shifted out to wing again.

totallegend

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Backs
6 Leinster
4 Munster
2 Ulster
1 AN Other

Forwards
5 Leinster
5 Ulster
3 Munster
3 AN Other

Total
11 Leinster
7 Munster
7 Ulster
4 AN Other

Ryan, O'Callaghan, Sherry, O'Mahony = 4 Munster forwards (+ POC if fit)
Best, Fitzpatrick, Ferris, Tuohy = 4 Ulster (+ Henry if fit)

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

Very odd to see more Munster backs in the squad then forwards!

As odd as seeing only Leinster forwards scoring trys at the weekend!

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't think Madigan is there yet. Great season and bucket loads of potential, but would you have been comfortable with him starting on Saturday? I wouldn't have been.

Yeah good point. But ask yourself this.. If you had to chose between Madigan and ROG to start on saturday...? Hypothetical I know, but...

mystic86

.ak wrote: »

Yeah good point. But ask yourself this.. If you had to chose between Madigan and ROG to start on saturday...? Hypothetical I know, but...

ROG, easily.

.ak

mystic86 wrote: »

ROG, easily.

Fair enough. But I think Ulster would've targeted ROG all day, where as Madigan would've caused them havoc by putting players into space.

mystic86

.ak wrote: »

Madigan would've caused them havoc

really dude?

ray jay

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't think Madigan is there yet. Great season and bucket loads of potential, but would you have been comfortable with him starting on Saturday?

A better question is who you'd rather see on the bench for that match, ROG or Madigan? For me it would be Madigan, ROG takes too much out of the back line attack of the teams he plays for and introduces a defensive weakness for the opposition to exploit.

.ak

mystic86 wrote: »

really dude?

Have you actually watched Madigan this season?

More importantly, have you watched ROG?

.ak

ray jay wrote: »

A better question is who you'd rather see on the bench for that match, ROG or Madigan? For me it would be Madigan, ROG takes too much out of the back line attack of the teams he plays for and introduces a defensive weakness for the opposition to exploit.

Echo..?

fitz

.ak wrote: »

Yeah good point. But ask yourself this.. If you had to chose between Madigan and ROG to start on saturday...? Hypothetical I know, but...

If allowed to, based on current form, Madigan would run a backline far better than ROG, who's playing like a complete drain at the moment, and has been average to poor for the whole season.

That doesn't matter though, Madigan's ability would be completely stifled by the Kidney game-plan, so it's no real loss that he hasn't been selected to tour imo.

.ak

fitz wrote: »

If allowed to, based on current form, Madigan would run a backline far better than ROG, who's playing like a complete drain at the moment, and has been average to poor for the whole season.

That doesn't matter though, Madigan's ability would be completely stifled by the Kidney game-plan, so it's no real loss that he hasn't been selected to tour imo.

True. Actually, that's the main reason why I lack any real interest in this tour.. However, sometimes being exposed to a national setup (no matter how bad it is) can be fruitful for a young player. He'll gain valuable experience.. and it may be humbling for him to be on a team that'll no doubt be beaten off the park by the ABs. He'll value his place in LR as I'm sure he already does...

Luckycharm

Whats the point of bringing ROG we all know what he can/Can't do - he has a year/2 left in him at best. Problem is playing outside Murray who takes far too long getting the ball away at the breakdown which will kill us against NZ.

Remember Wilkinson made his debut on tour of Hell and came out alot better for it.

Clegg

Anyone else think this is the best time to face the All Blacks? They have a new head coach who will have his own ideas on how he wants them to play. And some of their players aren't in the best of form either.

I expect us to lose every game but on paper we've never had a better chance to win.

ttankk

i cant believe he has not included ian madigan in his squad, im a munster fan but would prefer to see madigan go over o gara

Podge_irl

If Sexton had not been able to start on Saturday and I had the choice between Madigan or ROG I would have picked Madigan to start and cloned him to sit on the bench.

CatFromHue

Luckycharm wrote: »

Whats the point of bringing ROG we all know what he can/Can't do - he has a year/2 left in him at best. Problem is playing outside Murray who takes far too long getting the ball away at the breakdown which will kill us against NZ.

Remember Wilkinson made his debut on tour of Hell and came out alot better for it.

Wilkinson made his debut in the previous 5 Nations to that tour.

ttankk

i nearly prefer madigan to sexton because he always wants to attack. i think the days of tactical kicking that o gara is a pro of is dying, it still has its use but not against world class teams like NZ who will love us for giving them the chance to counter with the backs they have

bamboozle

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't think Madigan is there yet. Great season and bucket loads of potential, but would you have been comfortable with him starting on Saturday? I wouldn't have been. He needs another year at least. As for Keatley I think he has potential too, but hasn't been getting the game time. He should def be first choice ahead of ROG for Munster next season.

I don't think we have any other realistic out-half options other than Sexton and ROG going up against big opposition. We should look to give one or both of those 2 some time in the AIs off the bench though. Give them a shot in camp and on-field to start looking to stake a claim.

Madigan is not the finished article but this season when given the opportunity he's grabbed it with both hands and not looked out of his depth. when i think Murray (and Jones barring injury) getting world cup call ups based on far less exposure it just p1sses me off big time.

Mclaughlin, Madigan, Gilroy should be well peeved today. Ferris should be going to the cryo chambers in poland for the summer to rest up and not NZ.

ttankk

Clegg wrote: »

Anyone else think this is the best time to face the All Blacks? They have a new head coach who will have his own ideas on how he wants them to play. And some of their players aren't in the best of form either.

I expect us to lose every game but on paper we've never had a better chance to win.

i dont think the new coach will make any difference because he has been there for years and is as respected as graham henry was. i think the amount of injuries to some of their players benifits us but again they have such a pool of talent to choose from its not funny . we will lose all the games id say but i dont mind as long as changes are being made and new things tried out for the future

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

Yeah good point. But ask yourself this.. If you had to chose between Madigan and ROG to start on saturday...? Hypothetical I know, but...

ray jay wrote: »

A better question is who you'd rather see on the bench for that match, ROG or Madigan? For me it would be Madigan, ROG takes too much out of the back line attack of the teams he plays for and introduces a defensive weakness for the opposition to exploit.

I'd pick Madigan for the bench over ROG for Leinster. But I'd pick ROG over Madigan for Ireland. Different teams with different approaches facing very different opposition. It is a step up to international level, for as much as that can often be used as an excuse. And I just don't think Madigan is quite there yet.

.ak

There is something to be said about Madigan's attacking abilities over Sexton's. There's no doubt in my mind that Sexton is by far the superior footballer, with an arsenal of skillsets at his disposal, but it's nice to have two different style of OH's to pick from. It's also clever from Madigan to purposefully develop a different style - as it's helped massively with his start's this year.

Still, would've loved to see him get an Irish cap. I'm sure it'd mean the world to him to have all his hard work noticed and rewarded.

But molloyjh is probably right - we'll see him get sprung for the AIs.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

But molloyjh is probably right - we'll see him get sprung for the AIs.

Ah here now I never said that. I said he should feature off the bench in the AIs. I'm in no way convinced Deccie agrees. :P

boynesider

Forget about Gilroy and Wallace. Gilroy and Zebo are neck and neck and I would have liked to see both go but Dave Kearney is far ahead of either of them. There are enough centres without Wallace and Cave deserved the spot more than him.

The real travesty in this squad is the non-selection of some key Leinster players. McLaughlin, Toner, Madigan and D Kearney should all be there. The current Leinster set-up is one of the best things to come out of Irish rugby and Kidney would be a fool not to base his team around them.

Podge_irl

.ak wrote: »

But molloyjh is probably right - we'll see him get sprung for the AIs.

I'd be amazed if he sees a green shirt in anything other then the A game.

Sure aren't the AIs massively important for our rankings going into the RWC. Not a place to experiment. Apart from idiotic experiments of moving your best fly half to 12.

GerM

.ak wrote: »

But molloyjh is probably right - we'll see him get sprung for the AIs.

Not so sure. We've only the two games against SA and Argentina in the autumn. DK won't want to make any changes with these being the last games ahead of the WC seeding cut off. I would think that management has earmarked the 2013 summer tour as the opportunity to give some game time to the likes of Madigan, Toner, Gilroy, Kearney, Zebo, Sherry etc.

Amazotheamazing

While I'm happy enough Zebo is touring, only because it'll be good for his development, there is no way he should play. Same with Sherry.

McLaughlin, D. Kearney, Madigan should definitely be on the plane too. Not really convinced by Toner tbh.

Heroditas

GerM wrote: »

Not so sure. We've only the two games against SA and Argentina in the autumn. DK won't want to make any changes with these being the last games ahead of the WC seeding cut off. I would think that management has earmarked the 2013 summer tour as the opportunity to give some game time to the likes of Madigan, Toner, Gilroy, Kearney, Zebo, Sherry etc.

It's possible that Madigan will be in the extended squad and will get a run out in the A game.
If we win the game against SA, Kidney might throw him onto the bench against Argentina because we may have secured enough ranking points to guarantee a spot in the top 8.
Who knows, we may even be ranked 4th


...and pigs may fly.