Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

Fireball07

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'd like to see Cronin start a test

Although it won't happen

Me too. I think we might as well rotate. I would give Sherry sometime seeing as he's part of the squad. Playing the same team for 3 games is ridiculous. I'd give Best 2 starts, Cronin 1, and give Sherry 25 minutes in one of the games.

But it won't happen.

Tox56

Fireball07 wrote: »

You see the thing is...

I don't think ROG should necessarily be left at home. But I think Madigan should have gone aswell. I think we should bring 3 OHs just in case. If it wasn't ROG, then Madigan and Keatley/Humphries/someone.

As for second rows- I don't think anyone would argue with POC, Ryan, Tuohy. I think most people would pick Toner or McCarthy for the last spot, but I suppose DOC getting picked isn't the absolute end of the world bar the fact that we know he's going to get picked ahead of Tuohy.

Sherry had to go at hooker, poor game against Ospreys but he's looked pretty decent and there really isn't any other option since Varley is injured.

I'd have liked to see Spence go tbh if he's not bringing Wallace.

I think that is the absolute end of the world, if it happens it's ridiculous.

Fishooks12

TomLamp wrote: »

1.Healy
2.Best
3.Ross
4.Touhy
5.Toner
6.Ferris
7.O'Brien
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
10.Sexton
11.Trimble
12.D'arcy
13.O'Driscoll
14.McFadden
15.Kearney

Leinster team with Best, Ferris and Trimble thrown in. If that team could play the Leinster way we could beat the All Blacks.

You must really love Munster

Fishooks12

Tox56 wrote: »

I think that is the absolute end of the world, if it happens it's ridiculous.

Brace yourself, it'll happen

Fireball07

Tox56 wrote: »

I think that is the absolute end of the world, if it happens it's ridiculous.

I'd be shocked if it didn't happen tbh. Might as well prepare yourself.

TomLamp

Fishooks12 wrote: »

You must really love Munster

I have no problems with Munster but surely we want to play a Leinster style? Which means as many Leinster players in the team as possible.

Tox56

I know it's likely, but I won't criticise him for something he hasn't (yet) done.

irishbucsfan

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Not sure I'd agree that there's as much difference between them. But I def wouldn't begrudge Henry the shirt either

POM has more weaknesses than Henry. Henry is just an all round better player at this point in time. Physically stronger, much more guile and experience. I don't know why POM is picked ahead of him tbh. POM will be a superb player but he needs more time before he's a Henry's level.

TomLamp

If O'Callaghan starts he should instantly get the sack

Fishooks12

TomLamp wrote: »

I have no problems with Munster but surely we want to play a Leinster style? Which means as many Leinster players in the team as possible.

Even if that means sacrificing superior Munster players? Do you not think the likes of POC D Ryan and Earls could not adapt ?

Dero

TomLamp wrote: »

I have no problems with Munster but surely we want to play a Leinster style? Which means as many Leinster players in the team as possible.

No, it means a different coach. Not necessarily Joe, but someone with a similar philosophy. Leinster's style (and subsequent success) is down to more than the players. As has been said a million times here, it's all about the game plan...

Podge_irl

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'd like to see Cronin start a test

Although it won't happen

I still remember the 2009 AIs when Cronin was on the bench and got all of 8 minutes against Fiji over the whole damn thing.

Thankfully Kidney brought him into some competitive rugby with a 1 minute appearance during the 6N.

:rolleyes:

TomLamp

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Even if that means sacrificing superior Munster players? Do you not think the likes of POC D Ryan and Earls could not adapt ?

Its about the sum of the parts. Although if POC was fit theres no way I could leave him out.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

POM has more weaknesses than Henry. Henry is just an all round better player at this point in time. Physically stronger, much more guile and experience. I don't know why POM is picked ahead of him tbh. POM will be a superb player but he needs more time before he's a Henry's level.

POM needs to focus on one position. Henry was an underwhelming 8, but his last two seasons at 7 have been a revelation. I can't believe that during Hook's yearly bile about Ireland lacking a proper 7 he focused on bringing POM, who had 3 professional games at the position, instead of Henry.

Being able to play across the backrow is a good skill, but you have to focus on one position.

twinytwo

team for all three games... remember u read it here first folks.

1healy
2 best
3ross
4ryan
5doc
6ferris
7sob
8heaslip
9murray
10sexton
11earls/trimble
12darcy
13drico
14earls/trimble
15kearney

..... kidney will go for the same team in all the games.. rog/reddan to come on with 25/20 mins to play... the rest of the subs to get between 5 mins and 30seconds of game time... no one outside the 22 will play.

Kindey wont bother trying to win the games but will talk his usual ****e about giving it our best and everyone deserves their place.. when we get destroyed... ah sure we have to learn from our mistakes and improve for the next game... even though he wont and will only use the same "game plan" that wont do anything as we crab across the pitch and watch as our defence is based around using the choke tackle every 5 seconds.

...ffs kidney at least play reddan with sexton and give us some hope of not getting skull ****ed.

Fishooks12

TomLamp wrote: »

Its about the sum of the parts. Although if POC was fit theres no way I could leave him out.

so you'd leave Earls out? Our best finisher? For the inferior Trimble and McFadden, one of whom isn't a Leinster player btw

R Ryan is a better player than Toner too, who doesn't start for Leinster btw

Tbh I just think you're trying to get as many digs at Munster in as possible

danthefan

Podge_irl wrote: »

POM needs to focus on one position. Henry was an underwhelming 8, but his last two seasons at 7 have been a revelation. I can't believe that during Hook's yearly bile about Ireland lacking a proper 7 he focused on bringing POM, who had 3 professional games at the position, instead of Henry.

Being able to play across the backrow is a good skill, but you have to focus on one position.

POM doesn't pick the team. He plays where he's needed.

TomLamp

If Kidney even does one of these two things I'll be ecstastic:

(1) plays Reddan with Sexton
or
(2) Doesnt start O'Callaghan


How depressing is that?

TomLamp

Fishooks12 wrote: »

so you'd leave Earls out? Our best finisher? For the inferior Trimble and McFadden, one of whom isn't a Leinster player btw

R Ryan is a better player than Toner too, who doesn't start for Leinster btw

Tbh I just think you're trying to get as many digs at Munster in as possible

Trimble is there because hes part of the HC finalists. I've gone for as many Leinster players as possible with ONE Ulster player edging a Munster one.

Podge_irl

danthefan wrote: »

POM doesn't pick the team. He plays where he's needed.

You're right, I didn't mean to imply it was his decision. He's more the victim of an unfortunate circumstance at Munster where they have about 3 backrow players left fit at the end of the season.

I'd like to see him get a continuous run at a position next year - you'd have to think its most likely to be at 6 with Ronan at 7 and Coughlan at 8.

rrpc

Fishooks12 wrote: »

so you'd leave Earls out? Our best finisher? For the inferior Trimble and McFadden, one of whom isn't a Leinster player btw

R Ryan is a better player than Toner too, who doesn't start for Leinster btw

To be fair to Toner, he was behind his captain and Brad Thorn for most of the pointy end of the HEC.

Whatever about Leo, to say you're behind Brad Thorn for a starting slot is nothing to be ashamed of.

TomLamp

Besides it showed a huge amount of faith in Toner in bringing him on so early in a HC final for your captain.

Toner is there because in order to get the Irish team to play like Leinster you need as many as their players as possible starting.

danthefan

Podge_irl wrote: »

You're right, I didn't mean to imply it was his decision. He's more the victim of an unfortunate circumstance at Munster where they have about 3 backrow players left fit at the end of the season.

I'd like to see him get a continuous run at a position next year - you'd have to think its most likely to be at 6 with Ronan at 7 and Coughlan at 8.

He probably would have this year too if it weren't for a spectacular number of injuries suffered by Munster.

Fishooks12

TomLamp wrote: »

Trimble is there because hes part of the HC finalists. I've gone for as many Leinster players as possible with ONE Ulster player edging a Munster one.

flawless logic :rolleyes:

irishbucsfan

TomLamp wrote: »

Besides it showed a huge amount of faith in Toner in bringing him on so early in a HC final for your captain.

Toner is there because in order to get the Irish team to play like Leinster you need as many as their players as possible starting.

No, in order to get the Irish team playing like Leinster you need the Leonster coaching setup, you need Johnno Gibbes coaching the forwards and Joe Schmidt coaching the backs. Regardless of who the players are. If Kidney had 15 All Blacks they still kick the ball away, that's his philosophy.

And also, there are a couple of Munster players who would have started for Leinster if Schmidt had the chance to select them. Well, Earls and POC anyway.

GerM

rrpc wrote: »

Something I hadn't noticed myself, but the Mole pointed it out some time ago after the Os match:

It's a regular occurrence. First noticed it early this season. Most obvious was the home game against the Ospreys (I think) when after the whistle, he got up and put his hand on an Ospreys player's head who was on the deck and pushed their face into the ground. Ref spotted it and told him he'd be carded if he did anything else. Just totally unnecessary stuff from such a talented player and it's not representative of how he plays the game; he's not an enforcer type at all and doesn't need to do it.

Fireball07

TomLamp wrote: »

Besides it showed a huge amount of faith in Toner in bringing him on so early in a HC final for your captain.

Toner is there because in order to get the Irish team to play like Leinster you need as many as their players as possible starting.

That's just wrong. Someone already said it was about the system rather than the players, if we had the right coach he'd pick the best players available in each positions (or maybe he'd even choose different players depending on opposition, wouldn't that be revolutionary...) but Earls, Ryan/POC, Tuohy, Ferris, Best, Henry/POM and imo Wallace are better than their Leinster counterparts and are all perfectly able to adapt to the system if it was implemented.

Banbridgeman

I reluctantly agree with lamp. There's a reason Lions victories are rare and it's because there's no fluidity between players unused to playing with each other. After that final I think it's time to swallow pride and just start the Leinster team with o'connell, Best, Ferris and earls thrown in. Munster had 10 players starting for Ireland for years and were nowhere close to being as good as this Leinster team so 11 Leinster players starting isn't that crazy. Make hay while the sun shines and all that jazz

Fishooks12

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, in order to get the Irish team playing like Leinster you need the Leonster coaching setup, you need Johnno Gibbes coaching the forwards and Joe Schmidt coaching the backs. Regardless of who the players are. If Kidney had 15 All Blacks they still kick the ball away, that's his philosophy.

And also, there are a couple of Munster players who would have started for Leinster if Schmidt had the chance to select them. Well, Earls and POC anyway.

+1

Irelands best 15 would be more than capable of adapting to the same gameplan under a decent coach

twinytwo

Banbridgeman wrote: »

I reluctantly agree with lamp. There's a reason Lions victories are rare and it's because there's no fluidity between players unused to playing with each other. After that final I think it's time to swallow pride and just start the Leinster team with o'connell, Best, Ferris and earls thrown in. Munster had 10 players starting for Ireland for years and were nowhere close to being as good as this Leinster team so 11 Leinster players starting isn't that crazy. Make hay while the sun shines and all that jazz

if kidney wanted he could try a leinster based team for one of the games just to see if it works.. with 3 non leinster players for example if he went

1healy
2 cronin
3ross
4ryan
5touhy
6sob
7 KML
8heaslip
9reddan
10sexton
11 earls
12darcy
13drcio
14 mcfadden
15 kearney

... you never know kidey that might work... and tell SOB to put 80 mins of tanking into 40 mins and bring ferris on at ht.. or something.. anything different... but NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO