Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

bamboozle

Podge_irl wrote: »

http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv/?play=media&id=11993

About 5.50 in Kidney actually starts talking about how they rotated players in the 6N with a view towards planning for this tour.

How in the name of jesus ****ing christ does no journalist pick up on the massive waft of bull**** emanating from Kidney at this stage. Its gone so far beyond a joke its almost back to being funny. Though that may be more a case of you have to laugh or cry.

Utterly pathetic from both Kidney and all the journalists present at this press conference.

i guess he meant they rotated who got to hold the tackling backs in training...i certainly hope he's not talking about ROG/Sexton rotation to 10/12
if ROG plays against NZ they wont even have to work on tactics it will be just a case of charge at him.

rrpc

bamboozle wrote: »

i guess he meant they rotated who got to hold the tackling backs in training...i certainly hope he's not talking about ROG/Sexton rotation to 10/12
if ROG plays against NZ they wont even have to work on tactics it will be just a case of charge at him.

Fishooks12

bamboozle wrote: »

i guess he meant they rotated who got to hold the tackling backs in training...i certainly hope he's not talking about ROG/Sexton rotation to 10/12
if ROG plays against NZ they wont even have to work on tactics it will be just a case of charge at him.

I'd be far more worried with ROG not being able to pass and kick out of hand anymore

He could never tackle anyway

trackguy

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'd be far more worried with ROG not being able to pass and kick out of hand anymore

He could never tackle anyway

While I don't believe ROG ever used to shirk the physical side of the game, (he just wasn't very good at coping with it) I think he now does shy away from the tackles and taking the hits.

I think his biggest problem is how predictable he is. If the back 3 stay deep for the opposition he's fecked.

No running threat, plays too deep, coughs up the ball in contact - yet he is going to NZ.

Mr.Applepie

trackguy wrote: »

While I don't believe ROG ever used to shirk the physical side of the game, (he just wasn't very good at coping with it) I think he now does shy away from the tackles and taking the hits.

I think his biggest problem is how predictable he is. If the back 3 stay deep for the opposition he's fecked.

No running threat, plays too deep, coughs up the ball in contact - yet he is going to NZ.

what we really need is to invest in some young gun who plays on the gainline, with a lovely step, speed and is one of the best passers of the ball around to go and get experience - but where would we find someone like that...

trackguy

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

what we really need is to invest in some young gun who plays on the gainline, with a lovely step, speed and is one of the best passers of the ball around to go and get experience - but where would we find someone like that...

Ah yes... but can he stand in the pocket and kick the ball back to the opposition??

leftleg

trackguy wrote: »

Ah yes... but can he stand in the pocket and kick the ball back to the opposition??

And not retire till he's 38

Timothy Bryce

Ah yes... but can he stand in the pocket and kick the ball back to the opposition??

He missed a kick in the senior cup once, so presumably he can't kick the corners as per the 'game plan'

Judgement Day

Deliberately keeping my head down on this thread due to my schizophrenic problems when it comes to Ireland vs the All Blacks but I feel as some posters have already said it will pan out something along these lines - a brave performance in the 1st Test, a battering in the 2nd and the 3rd.... Anyway, I feel that if when Ireland are beaten it will be down to the management rather than individual players. Easy to give out about the likes of ROG but he doesn't select himself and, in any event, will probably see little game time.

http://www.kidneyclock.net/

RoundBox11

Podge_irl wrote: »

http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv/?play=media&id=11993

About 5.50 in Kidney actually starts talking about how they rotated players in the 6N with a view towards planning for this tour.

How in the name of jesus ****ing christ does no journalist pick up on the massive waft of bull**** emanating from Kidney at this stage. Its gone so far beyond a joke its almost back to being funny. Though that may be more a case of you have to laugh or cry.

Utterly pathetic from both Kidney and all the journalists present at this press conference.

Yeah i listened to that last night and was amazed that he actually said that. He literally didn't rotate at all.

It was interesting to hear who he sees as being the reserve call ups in different positions. He had me seriously worried that after Ronan Loughney, one of his next call up options would be Dave Kilcoyne

He also made no reference to leaving Paddy Wallace behind.

Considering the starting 15 for the first game if he didn't experiment, i kinda realized it wouldn't be thaaaat bad. I mean presuming Ryan and Reddan have earned a starting spot from the last 6N:

15. Kearney
14. Trimble/McFadden
13. BOD
12. Darce/McFadden
11. Earls
10. Sexton
9. Reddan

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip


The only problem i'd have with that team is that Ferris and POC might not be physically capable for 3 tests (so POM (should be Henry) and DOC will probably be rotated in at some point).

I know we all want to see the likes of Cave and Tuohy get a full game and hopefully they will, but i think the 15 above would arguably still be our best 15.

Quint2010

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Yeah i listened to that last night and was amazed that he actually said that. He literally didn't rotate at all.

It was interesting to hear who he sees as being the reserve call ups in different positions. He had me seriously worried that after Ronan Loughney, one of his next call up options would be Dave Kilcoyne

He also made no reference to leaving Paddy Wallace behind.

Considering the starting 15 for the first game if he didn't experiment, i kinda realized it wouldn't be thaaaat bad. I mean presuming Ryan and Reddan have earned a starting spot from the last 6N:

15. Kearney
14. Trimble/McFadden
13. BOD
12. Darce/McFadden
11. Earls
10. Sexton
9. Reddan

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip


The only problem i'd have with that team is that Ferris and POC might not be physically capable for 3 tests (so POM (should be Henry) and DOC will probably be rotated in at some point).

I know we all want to see the likes of Cave and Tuohy get a full game and hopefully they will, but i think the 15 above would arguably still be our best 15.

Murray will be straight back in at 9.

bilston

I know it's been talked about before here but the Irish press are pathetic. Kidney is under bog all scrutiny from the written media and frankly I think that's disgraceful.

Now I hate the way the English media for example go after their managers whether it be football or to a lesser extent rugby, they take it too far, but there is just a total lack of criticism in Ireland. Even just ask some difficult questions FFS!

I'm not getting into a Kidney/EOS debate but the media turned on O'Sullivan for a similar record to what Kidney has had in the last couple of years. Obviously Deccie has the GS in his pocket but that was 3 years ago.

dtpc191991

bilston wrote: »

I know it's been talked about before here but the Irish press are pathetic. Kidney is under bog all scrutiny from the written media and frankly I think that's disgraceful.

Now I hate the way the English media for example go after their managers whether it be football or to a lesser extent rugby, they take it too far, but there is just a total lack of criticism in Ireland. Even just ask some difficult questions FFS!

I'm not getting into a Kidney/EOS debate but the media turned on O'Sullivan for a similar record to what Kidney has had in the last couple of years. Obviously Deccie has the GS in his pocket but that was 3 years ago.

It's not just the GS it's the fact that he had a better WC than EOS. If anyone can cast their minds back to the WC warmup there was serious talk of his job being in jeopardy. The sad thing is, is that was down more to our current talent pool than Kidney's coaching. The current second golden generation should peak from 2013-2015 and should be far better than the previous one save O'Driscoll. Realisticly we should be able to win a GS, beat NZ and mount a serious challenge for the WC in 2015. As long as Kidney is coach coupled with the IRFU failing to deal with the prop problem we will struggle to achieve those goals.

Quint2010

Geordan Murphy has just announced his retirement which makes me wonder-is there only one FB in the squad for NZ?

Higher

It makes the decision not to bring D.Kearney even more puzzling.

Higher

RoundBox11 wrote: »

It was interesting to hear who he sees as being the reserve call ups in different positions. He had me seriously worried that after Ronan Loughney, one of his next call up options would be Dave Kilcoyne

Who does he play for again :rolleyes:

Tox56

Both D. Kearney and Gilroy can cover Full-Back, while I'm pretty sure Zebo can't, which really is bizzare.

Fireball07

Quint2010 wrote: »

Geordan Murphy has just announced his retirement which makes me wonder-is there only one FB in the squad for NZ?

Tox56 wrote: »

Both D. Kearney and Gilroy can cover Full-Back, while I'm pretty sure Zebo can't, which really is bizzare.

Zebo has played full-back tbf.


But I wouldn't want him there against NZ. Earls will be next in line, and is a fairly solid full-back. But yeah, Kearney would have the obvious choice.

bilston

Have we a depth problem at FB that has just crept up on us.

On the one hand we have one of if not the best FB in the world, but after that now that Murphy and Dempsey (albeit a few years ago now) have both gone Kearney seems to stand in splendid isolation. Earls is an option but isn't all that safe under the high ball, Jones has shown plenty of promise but injuries etc have slowed his progress. Is it more of a problem than we've maybe realised until now?

CatFromHue

Well there is Duffy as well but he seems to have been ignored.

Fireball07

bilston wrote: »

Have we a depth problem at FB that has just crept up on us.

On the one hand we have one of if not the best FB in the world, but after that now that Murphy and Dempsey (albeit a few years ago now) have both gone Kearney seems to stand in splendid isolation. Earls is an option but isn't all that safe under the high ball, Jones has shown plenty of promise but injuries etc have slowed his progress. Is it more of a problem than we've maybe realised until now?

I think Earls is fine under a high ball, he's not Kearney but he's not going to **** up either.

Jones has plenty of talent, hopefully he can make a full recovery. Duffy has always been good, unlucky with the players who were ahead of him. Dave Kearney has done well this season, I don't think I'd have a problem with him playing there. Even Hurley, might not be international class in general, but I don't think he'd let us down if he was given a game.

And then we've got young players like Layden and Conway coming through. I wouldn't be too worried.

GerM

RoundBox11 wrote: »

It was interesting to hear who he sees as being the reserve call ups in different positions. He had me seriously worried that after Ronan Loughney, one of his next call up options would be Dave Kilcoyne

We have few options there, in fairness; Kilcoyne is one by default. Take out Court, Healy and Loughney and you're left with Horan (rightly cut loose), Wilkinson (wrongly cut loose) and the young players, McAllister, McGrath and Kilcoyne. DK named McGrath as one of his options too so I wouldn't read too much into it. Not a hope Kilcoyne will be called up unless other options are out of the equation. Even DK isn't mad enough to call up someone with 1 professional start to come to NZ.

Fishooks12

Earls is fine cover at fullback, not sure where the notion that he can't field a high ball is coming from either

I'd like to see Gilroy move to fullback for Ulster next year too

shuffol

Fireball07 wrote: »

I think Earls is fine under a high ball, he's not Kearney but he's not going to **** up either.

Jones has plenty of talent, hopefully he can make a full recovery. Duffy has always been good, unlucky with the players who were ahead of him. Dave Kearney has done well this season, I don't think I'd have a problem with him playing there. Even Hurley, might not be international class in general, but I don't think he'd let us down if he was given a game.

And then we've got young players like Layden and Conway coming through. I wouldn't be too worried.

Lot of maybe's there though, given the fact that Kearney hasnt the best injury record himself I think we should be looking to promote a new option.

shuffol

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Earls is fine cover at fullback, not sure where the notion that he can't field a high ball is coming from either

I'd like to see Gilroy move to fullback for Ulster next year too

What about Payne?

Ildere

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Earls is fine cover at fullback, not sure where the notion that he can't field a high ball is coming from either

Hes not the best tackler, misses vital tackles a lot. Himself and Zebo would leak soft tries to the likes of NZ.

leftleg

Ildere wrote: »

Hes not the best tackler, misses vital tackles a lot.

??When?? If so then you can count Kearney out as well; hes got a questionable tackle technique as well.

Fishooks12

Ildere wrote: »

Hes not the best tackler, misses vital tackles a lot. Himself and Zebo would leak soft tries to the likes of NZ.

Earls defense has been very solid this season? He's improved immeasurably over the course of this season

How many vital tackles did he miss in the six nations this year? Or for Munster at 13?

Would it be a wild guess to suggest you're basing your opinion of his defense on two missed tackles (Tualagi, Davies) that happened last season?

Fishooks12

shuffol wrote: »

What about Payne?

Forgot about Payne. Would like to see Gilroy get a shot at the 15 shirt more often though. Would develop another string to his bow that he'll probably need with Tommy coming back

GerM

shuffol wrote: »

What about Payne?

It's telling when my initial reaction was "Christ if Kidney tries to coax Shaun Payne out of retirement again, I'll go bananas."