Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

bilston

siltirocker wrote: »

The Connacht fan's offical player of the year was an Irish tighthead.

I think the emphasis that our only options after Ross are Hagan or Declan 'one game' Fitzpatrick is very disrespectful to Connacht Rugby.

There, I've said it.

You mean Declan '12 games' Fitzpatrick surely??

Cpt_Blackbeard

DOC in an Irish jersey is there to perform the same duties as Thorn does to Leinster. He is there to hit rucks, scrummage and defend. Anything else is a bonus. Although he is not performing to his previously set standards, it does not make him the incompetent player many here perceive him to be.

Even just looking at our current available options. Who are the other primarily tighthead locks vying for selection? I'm not sure about McCarthy, but the rest of the options are generally looseheads afaik.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

DOC in an Irish jersey is there to perform the same duties as Thorn does to Leinster. He is there to hit rucks, scrummage and defend. Anything else is a bonus. Although he is not performing to his previously set standards, it does not make him the incompetent player many here perceive him to be.

Even just looking at our current available options. Who are the other primarily tighthead locks vying for selection? I'm not sure about McCarthy, but the rest of the options are generally looseheads afaik.

I thought Tuohy was a TH actually but I can't swear to that.

At any rate if DOC is there to hit rucks and defend well Ryan has been doing that every bit as good recently.

ormond lad

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I thought Tuohy was a TH actually but I can't swear to that.

At any rate if DOC is there to hit rucks and defend well Ryan has been doing that every bit as good recently.

Tuohy is a TH Lock according to this list of TH AND LH Locks in an article by Cummiskey in february
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0207/1224311401041.html
Tighthead Locks – Donncha O’Callaghan, Dan Tuohy, Damien Browne, Paul O’Connell (when playing with Ryan);
Loosehead Locks – Leo Cullen, Paul O’Connell (when playing with O’Callaghan), Johann Muller, Mick O’Driscoll, Donnacha Ryan.

fitz

ormond lad wrote: »

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I thought Tuohy was a TH actually but I can't swear to that.

At any rate if DOC is there to hit rucks and defend well Ryan has been doing that every bit as good recently.

Tuohy is a TH Lock according to this list of TH AND LH Locks in an article by Cummiskey in february
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0207/1224311401041.html
Tighthead Locks – Donncha O’Callaghan, Dan Tuohy, Damien Browne, Paul O’Connell (when playing with Ryan);
Loosehead Locks – Leo Cullen, Paul O’Connell (when playing with O’Callaghan), Johann Muller, Mick O’Driscoll, Donnacha Ryan.

In Paulies absence, and based on form, the starting second row should be Tuohy and Ryan, with Toner on the bench. Obviously, will never happen with Kidney.

RoundBox11

I'd be surprised if Ross misses the tour. His injury didn't look too bad. It looked like he was taken off as a precaution (probably under prior instruction from the IRFU).
If he does miss it tho, at least it will fast track the development of a new tighthead.

jacothelad

siltirocker wrote: »

The Connacht fan's offical player of the year was an Irish tighthead.

I think the emphasis that our only options after Ross are Hagan or Declan 'one game' Fitzpatrick is very disrespectful to Connacht Rugby.

There, I've said it.

That would be Declan '64 games for Ulster' Fitzpatrick to you - so you can show him the proper respect - like.

siltirocker

You know precisely what I meant when I called him Declan 'one game' Fitzpatrick.

The fact that no one mooted him for the squad until 'one game' in May against Edinburgh. Now he's the second coming.

P.S I think it's fair ****in' obvious what I meant and ridiculous that any of ye reckoned I thought Fitzpatrick has only played one game for Ulster. I don't make comments on this forum without having some sort of knowledge about what I post (unlike some of the sh1te in here).

Anyway, people are spouting loads about the back row. IMO We should start in order of preference there:

6. O'Brien, Muldoon, O'Mahoney, McLaughlin
7. Henry, O'Mahoney, O'Brien, Muldoon
8. Heaslip, Henry, Muldoon, O'Brien, O'Mahoney

Whilst McLaughlin has been no doubt exceptional this season. . . people seem to be forgetting that other 6's have been better. O'Mahoney, Muldoon, Ferris, O'Brien, etc.

Hagz

siltirocker wrote: »

Whilst McLaughlin has been no doubt exceptional this season. . . people seem to be forgetting that other 6's have been better. O'Mahoney, Muldoon, Ferris, O'Brien, etc.

People are forgetting? or people just don't have the same opinion as you? I think it's the latter.

CIARAN_BOYLE

siltirocker wrote: »

You know precisely what I meant when I called him Declan 'one game' Fitzpatrick.

The fact that no one mooted him for the squad until 'one game' in May against Edinburgh. Now he's the second coming.

P.S I think it's fair ****in' obvious what I meant and ridiculous that any of ye reckoned I thought Fitzpatrick has only played one game for Ulster. I don't make comments on this forum without having some sort of knowledge about what I post (unlike some of the sh1te in here).

People didn't mention Fitzpatrick because he was injured all season and people weren't really sure when he would be back

siltirocker

Hagz wrote: »

People are forgetting? or people just don't have the same opinion as you? I think it's the latter.

Do you think McLaughlin has been better than Muldoon, O'Mahoney, O'Brien or Ferris this year?

If you do fair enough, that's your opinion. And I would have no issues with McLaughlin at 6 this summer as he's been great.

But he has not played better than the above.

its_phil

jacothelad wrote: »

siltirocker wrote: »

The Connacht fan's offical player of the year was an Irish tighthead.

I think the emphasis that our only options after Ross are Hagan or Declan 'one game' Fitzpatrick is very disrespectful to Connacht Rugby.

There, I've said it.

That would be Declan '64 games for Ulster' Fitzpatrick to you - so you can show him the proper respect - like.

Ah come off it, you knew what he meant by one game.

Hagz

siltirocker wrote: »

Do you think McLaughlin has been better than Muldoon, O'Mahoney, O'Brien or Ferris this year?

If you do fair enough, that's your opinion. And I would have no issues with McLaughlin at 6 this summer as he's been great.

But he has not played better than the above.

I believe McLoughlin has been a better blindside than Muldoon and O'Mahony yes, but not Ferris. But I would be perfectly fine to see POM play as he has a lot of untapped potential. I would not however be happy to see Muldoon start ahead of him, as I think he's better than Muldoon. It is of course all my opinion.

siltirocker

Hagz wrote: »

I believe McLoughlin has been a better blindside than Muldoon and O'Mahony yes, but not Ferris. But I would be perfectly fine to see POM play as he has a lot of untapped potential. I would not however be happy to see Muldoon start ahead of him, as I think he's better than Muldoon. It is of course all my opinion.

Granted Leinster have been awesome but I don't think their 2nd choice blindside has been better than both Connacht & Munster's Players of the Year.

(How you think McLaughlin is better than Muldoon I will never know or more importantly understand? I don't mean to seem like a dick but I can only assume you haven't been watching Muldoon this year. I could be wrong but I just can not for the life of me see how someone could come to that conclusion if they'd been following both this season. Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree).

Podge_irl

Kevin McLaughlin clearly isn't Leinster's second choice blindside.

siltirocker

Podge_irl wrote: »

Kevin McLaughlin clearly isn't Leinster's second choice blindside.

Sean O'Brien was who I would consider first choice, but fair enough with Ryan out and Jennings dipping I'll take that.

McLaughlin starting at 6 is down to how Leinster want to play. Expansive Leinster play McLaughlin at 6 - SOB at 7, Tight Leinster play Jennings at 7, SOB at 6.

Podge_irl

siltirocker wrote: »

Sean O'Brien was who I would consider first choice, but fair enough with Ryan out and Jennings dipping I'll take that.

It has nothing to do with Ryan or Jennings or even SOB. Kev has clearly been Leinster's first choice 6 for 3 seasons now. He started 5 of Leinster's last 6 HEC knockout games. The Clermont game is the only knockout game he hasn't started since Rocky left.

Fishooks12

Paddy Butler wasn't called up to the Babaas anyway

its_phil

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Paddy Butler wasn't called up to the Babaas anyway

?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ireland-call-for-reds-duo-3118570.html

Fishooks12

its_phil wrote: »

?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ireland-call-for-reds-duo-3118570.html

Heard it mentioned on the thread a few days ago. He's in Vegas atm anyway!

jacothelad

its_phil wrote: »

Ah come off it, you knew what he meant by one game.

I certainly did. Complaining about 'disrespecting' Connacht at the same time as sneering at a player who has played reasonably well for Ulster for years. Top stuff.

Zzippy

Can Fitzpatrick cover both sides competently? Interested in Ulster fan's views here as they would have watched him most, I haven't seen that much of him.

With Court out and matchday squads still capped at 22, surely we need someone who can cover both sides of the scrum - fine if Fitzpatrick can do that. If he can't though, what is the point in taking 2 looseheads and 2 tightheads to NZ if none of them can cover both sides?

Wilkinson was interviewed and quoted as saying he's working on covering TH, but tbh I don't recall him playing there for Connacht, which leaves Loughney as the best placed versatile prop we have at the moment... IMO!

thomond2006

Fitzpatrick got destroyed in a game where he played loosehead, think it was a few months back.

Raisins

siltirocker wrote: »

You know precisely what I meant when I called him Declan 'one game' Fitzpatrick.

The fact that no one mooted him for the squad until 'one game' in May against Edinburgh. Now he's the second coming.

P.S I think it's fair ****in' obvious what I meant and ridiculous that any of ye reckoned I thought Fitzpatrick has only played one game for Ulster. I don't make comments on this forum without having some sort of knowledge about what I post (unlike some of the sh1te in here).

I doubt anyone thinks you actually thought he only played one game. You're inferring he only played one notable game and that Loughney is left out of the reckoning on this forum because he plays for Connacht.

As someone from the west of Ireland and a Connacht fan you're wrong on both points. Declan Fitzpatrick wasn't suggested for squads because of his injuries. His injuries have scuppered his potential his whole career. The knowledgeable fans on this forum recognise that IMO and nothing more.

Fitzpatrick started the u-21 world cup final, was starting for Ulster when he got fit during his Ulster career, started last years Rabo semi final at the RDS against a full strength Leinster team, and this year was many people's man of the match against Edinburgh in a HC semi final.

He's done it in more than one game, he's played very well at tight head against world class scrummagers in bigger games than Loughney. Plus he spent years training with the likes of Botha and Afoa which did him no harm I'm sure. He's getting fitter and deserves his chance ahead of Loughney.

freyners

Raisins wrote: »

I doubt anyone thinks you actually thought he only played one game. You're inferring he only played one notable game and that Loughney is left out of the reckoning on this forum because he plays for Connacht.

As someone from the west of Ireland and a Connacht fan you're wrong on both points. Declan Fitzpatrick wasn't suggested for squads because of his injuries. His injuries have scuppered his potential his whole career. The knowledgeable fans on this forum recognise that IMO and nothing more.

Fitzpatrick started the u-21 world cup final, was starting for Ulster when he got fit during his Ulster career, started last years Rabo semi final at the RDS against a full strength Leinster team, and this year was many people's man of the match against Edinburgh in a HC semi final.

He's done it in more than one game, he's played very well at tight head against world class scrummagers in bigger games than Loughney. Plus he spent years training with the likes of Botha and Afoa which did him no harm I'm sure. He's getting fitter and deserves his chance ahead of Loughney.

Genuine question, has he not been behind afoa and botha for the last two years or was he preferred to botha


Dont get me wrong, Fitzpatrick had a extremely good game v edinburgh and is a reliable TH, however to say that second part highlighted is highly disrespectful to loughney.
Loughney has regularly played TH all season, against noted scrums (penalty try v toulouse being the highlight) and has at least had parity in most of them. Connacht scrum has become an viable attacking option largely due to his shift across to TH (as before him Ah you was a disaster). Its very rare he has been drove back all season and has been improving all the time. On the few times he has been playing LH this season he has proven that he hasn't lost any part of his ability there either. If we are going to have only one prop on the bench v NZ it has to be loughney

durkadurka

Boss out of the tour.

Fishooks12

durkadurka wrote: »

Boss out of the tour.

Marshall in so

durkadurka

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Marshall in so

Ya think?

I think he'll go for TOL *shudders*

Fishooks12

durkadurka wrote: »

Ya think?

I think he'll go for TOL *shudders*

Nah, I reckon TOL would be involved tomorrow night if that were the case

Bar injury Marshall travels unless Kidney is doing some ultimate trolling

CatFromHue

durkadurka wrote: »

Boss out of the tour.

how do you know?

It's not on the IRFU website nor their Twitter page.