Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

monkey90

JustinDee wrote: »

Yes, perhaps they should have just stayed at home and not bothered. What's the point in playing an intl series against the Kiwis after all? Maybe a tour of Japan instead, or Namibia or Norway? Something for the win. Not to pit against a national team of superhuman who don't even have to try but just turn up.

That is so . . . Irish.

hang on now just one second, will you please point out to me where i said anything about the team not being bothered? my point was that a couple of posters had been worrying away that declan kidney would keep his job if we won one of the matches in NZ... and the point i was making was that they needn't get their knickers all in a twist, because its just not going to happen.. and you can untangle your own there while you're at it


and just for the record - i would absolutely LOVE if we could somehow get a win down there, however unlikely that may be. i dont see how it could keep kidney in the job, we've been poor for so long now that there's no way he can have his contract renewed. one thing a win against NZ would provide, however, is a great boost for irish rugby.... so how could a win, albeit very unlikely, possibly be seen as a bad thing?

TomLamp

To be honest normally I would be more excited about a three test tour of New Zealand than a world cup or 6 nations.

But with Declan Kidney in charge I just can't get excited. I just know he'll pick the wrong players and play the wrong tactics.

Benny Cake

TomLamp wrote: »

To be honest normally I would be more excited about a three test tour of New Zealand than a world cup or 6 nations.

But with Declan Kidney in charge I just can't get excited. I just know he'll pick the wrong players and play the wrong tactics.

Regardless of who is in charge, how could a 3 game tour against a side we've never beaten be more exciting than the world cup?

These end-of-season tours are simply money spinners for the home nation...

Kayless

monkey90 wrote: »

hang on now just one second, will you please point out to me where i said anything about the team not being bothered? my point was that a couple of posters had been worrying away that declan kidney would keep his job if we won one of the matches in NZ... and the point i was making was that they needn't get their knickers all in a twist, because its just not going to happen.. and you can untangle your own there while you're at it


and just for the record - i would absolutely LOVE if we could somehow get a win down there, however unlikely that may be. i dont see how it could keep kidney in the job, we've been poor for so long now that there's no way he can have his contract renewed. one thing a win against NZ would provide, however, is a great boost for irish rugby.... so how could a win, albeit very unlikely, possibly be seen as a bad thing?

Well as one of those "posters" "worrying away that declan kidney would keep his job" let me explain...

I would love to see Ireland win 1 or even 2 match's against NZ - I really would! but if we do, it will give the IRFU a reason to award Kidney a new contract and ignore past failings (our win/lose record over the last 4 years) I don't believe a first win over the all blacks is worth this

Scioch

I'm feeling particularly uninterested in this tour too. Just dont see anything much to be excited about or look forward to.

If there was midweek games with more rising talent going it would be seven millions times more interesting. As it is we know who'll be playing, we know they will be beaten and we know anyone who should be rising through the ranks wont be getting much of an opportunity.

TomLamp

Benny Cake wrote: »

Regardless of who is in charge, how could a 3 game tour against a side we've never beaten be more exciting than the world cup?

These end-of-season tours are simply money spinners for the home nation...

I suppose because we've never beaten them. To be honest its the one game I look forward to more than any other and to have 3 of them at once is incredibly exciting for me. I've no idea why I enjoy watching Ireland play the All Blacks so much, its probably because we've never beaten them yet we still have a chance. Other than this year, we've never had a chance to get to the final of a world cup (and boy did we blow it losing to Wales in the QF when France were the semi final opponents)

ironingbored

Sunday Times article written by Peter O'Reilly very critical of Kiddinme.

The title was "Learn from Leinster".

Among some of the things he said was how Ulster had fewer players on tour than Munster and how DOC

by now a bench player with Munster

is selected before Cullen and Toner.

Probably the most critical analysis of Kidney I've seen.

Interestingly, also in the Times, reading between the lines in an interview with BOD, there is a hint of criticism of Ireland's tactics under Deccie.

ray jay

Both good reads, thanks for the heads up. It was refreshing to see someone put the 46% win rate into print for all to see, as well as calling the 2011 Six Nations and World Cup disappointments instead of emphasising a single decent win in each campaign.

zweton

Looking to watch this game in Melbourne, what time is it on? Any idea what channel is will be shown on?

Coburger

Hey, does anyone know how tired the players are heading down to New Zealand?

Yes, the season has been quite long but it always seems to be odd that every summer when Ireland are on tour that it is mentioned how 'weary' the players are. When the South Hemisphere teams come up north do their media say the same thing?

I wonder if you asked some players who are not going like Toner, Cullen, Madigan, Gilroy if they are tired what would their answer be. Any thoughts?

Kilkenny14

The journey would be tiring, but they will have time to get used to conditions and get back to match fitness. The same argument on the tiredness of players is heard here too, the difference being they expect to win anyway.

Also, the match is on at 7.35pm NZ time, which in Melbourne would place it as 5.35pm Australian time. I am sure one of the Sky channels will show it.

thomond2006

Doesn't sound good for Ross.

Zzippy

thomond2006 wrote: »

Doesn't sound good for Ross.

Link? Source???

thomond2006

Zzippy wrote: »

Link? Source???

Sorry, meant to post a link.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3558_7794575,00.html

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

Sorry, meant to post a link.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3558_7794575,00.html

F**k. That ain't good.

Well, Fitzpatrick is what, 28 or 29 now? He's done 'developing', it's time to see what he's made of. I'd rather throw him into the first test and give Ross the extra week's rest than have Ross aggravate his injury, limp off and then be out for the 2nd and 3rd tests.

twinytwo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The IRB have mandated the 3 match tours to return, so they couldn't really drop a test for a match against a smaller nation.

However I would've liked to have seen them play externally to the tour.

true... but for example.

They decide that we play 3 games against the abs. Why not then send say Figi to NZ as well. Ireland travels with a bigger squad and we play figi with our "second team" the abs play figi with theirs. Figi dosent get hammered off the pitch, they get valuable game time, more of our players get exposure etc etc

thomond2006

Would have been nice to play Tonga or something, isn't there a large Tongan population in a certain city in NZ? I'm sure that was mentioned during the World Cup.

CatFromHue

The Pacific Nations Cup kicks off tomorrow and Tonga are playing in that.

Scotland are playing both Fiji and Samoa so they are not being ignored.

I was reading that the Irish team won't be announced until Thursday, I presume to allow any injured players as much time as possible to prove their fitness.

Shelflife

Chickens coming home to roost it would appear.

If Ross doesnt make it for sat we will start an uncapped player at tighthead prop against the ABs and another one on the bench.

While im all on for blooding new players, there is a time and place and NZ against the ABs is prob not ideal to say the least.

Why we only travelled with 29 players when there was/are doubts about a few of them makes no sense to me at all. Why not bring 35 players? if its a cost issue then leave a few of the blazers behind.

Come the 3rd test we will have a patched up team on the back of two beatings and players playing out of position just wishing they were already on the plane home.

This has all the makings of a disaster.

CatFromHue

The scrum isn't really a weapon in the All Blacks armoury or if it is it's way down at the back.

It mightn't be too bad of a game to get your first international game at tighthead.

Fishooks12

CatFromHue wrote: »

The scrum isn't really a weapon in the All Blacks armoury or if it is it's way down at the back.

It mightn't be too bad of a game to get your first international game at tighthead.

I agree. I wouldn't be worried about Fitzpatrick starting, infact I hope he does

People complain about not bringing these guys through but when will be ideal? The autumn against SA or Argentina? Two of the best scrummaging sides in the game?

thomond2006

CatFromHue wrote: »

The scrum isn't really a weapon in the All Blacks armoury or if it is it's way down at the back.

It mightn't be too bad of a game to get your first international game at tighthead.

Thorn won't be there to lock the tighthead either.

shuffol

The way I see it the test series will be a write off anyway so might as well chuck some lads in at the deep end and see what comes of it, we really dont have anything to lose.

Cpt_Blackbeard

I'm calling it now. If Fitzpatrick starts, we will DOC start for his supposed strength in the Scrum. We'd probably see him anyway though.

ray jay

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I'm calling it now. If Fitzpatrick starts, we will DOC start for his supposed strength in the Scrum. We'd probably see him anyway though.

He'd have started regardless for the experience he brings.

Fishooks12

I really don't think DOC will start, it's certainly not set in stone like before anyway

bilston

totallegend wrote: »

F**k. That ain't good.

Well, Fitzpatrick is what, 28 or 29 now? He's done 'developing', it's time to see what he's made of. I'd rather throw him into the first test and give Ross the extra week's rest than have Ross aggravate his injury, limp off and then be out for the 2nd and 3rd tests.

Not sure Fitzpatrick is that old. I think he's 27 but could be wrong, anyway in general you're right he's not young but he's youngish for a prop. Wasn't The Bull 26 or 27 when he made his Ireland debut and he went on to win 100 odd caps.

I wouldn't be too worried about Deccie Fitz's scrummaging, I'd be more worried about his fitness and his defence, not that he can't tackle, it's just he may not have the energy to tackle after 30 minutes!

totallegend

bilston wrote: »

Not sure Fitzpatrick is that old. I think he's 27 but could be wrong, anyway in general you're right he's not young but he's youngish for a prop. Wasn't The Bull 26 or 27 when he made his Ireland debut and he went on to win 100 odd caps.

I wouldn't be too worried about Deccie Fitz's scrummaging, I'd be more worried about his fitness and his defence, not that he can't tackle, it's just he may not have the energy to tackle after 30 minutes!

Turns 29 in July and if we're talking about locking a scrum, John Hayes is not the template. But yeah, his overall match fitness is a definite issue.

TomLamp

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I'm calling it now. If Fitzpatrick starts, we will DOC start for his supposed strength in the Scrum. We'd probably see him anyway though.

If DOC starts because of his strength in the scrum then it will be at the expense of Ryan because Touhy is supposed to be a monster at scrum-time. Although it is an utterly ridiculous reason to start someone. And I guarantee it will be at the expense of Touhy thus negating the original purpose of starting DOC.

RoundBox11

As important as Ross is to the team, his only role is to steady the scrum. So if Fitzpatrick can manage to do that to some degree we wont be missing anything really. I mean you wouldn't be expecting Ross to do anything else anyway.

Fitzpatrick is not nearly fit enough for an international test against NZ. Although, theres been fatter guys *cough Alan Jacobsen *cough, to wear an international jersey