Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

Tox56

DOC will start, 'experience' and 'scrummaging power' will be the excuses, I would be stunned if he doesn't start

GerM

Tox56 wrote: »

DOC will start, 'experience' and 'scrummaging power' will be the excuses, I would be stunned if he doesn't start

Wouldn't surprise me and I think it's going to be a tight call. I think both have rotated in with the first choice pack in training so I don't think anything is clear. Wouldn't surprise me if he went with DOC and used Tuohy as a sub to inject some energy into the front five later on.

JRant

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The rule changes are really going to affect Murray. I can just envisage him making mistakes as he is out under pressure by refs to use the ball. The rules will favour guys like Boss who are natural decision makers.

However hopefully the new Shane Warney coach will sculpt him into the world class 9 that he could become before it makes a massive impact.

That's a very good point, maybe the new rules will be the kick up the backside he needs but I'm not so sure. He has definitely gone backwards the last 12 months and apart from a couple of decent performances really hasn't done enough to warrant starting in this tour. However he will more than likely start 2 of the 3 tests as he passes the most important criteria for DK to pick him. The same criteria that will see James Downey claim the 12 jersey once next season starts.

ray jay

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Possibly DOC and Tuohy with Ryan at 6

I would be amazed if Ryan played 6 ahead of POM/SOB. I'd imagine if DOC starts it'll be at the expense of Touhy.

bamboozle

ray jay wrote: »

I would be amazed if Ryan played 6 ahead of POM/SOB. I'd imagine if DOC starts it'll be at the expense of Touhy.

my thoughts exactly, DOC's experience and 'unseen work' will see him a guaranteed starter in DK's eyes. Touhy will be on bench, i'd be shocked if Ryan played 6.

JRant

Fishooks12 wrote: »

15 Kearney
14 Trimble
13 BOD
12 Darcy
11 Earls
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Heaslip
7 SOB
6 POM
5 D Ryan
4 D Tuohy
3 Fitzpatrick
2 Best
1 Healy

I'd be very surprised if that isn't the team for Saturday.

That's not a bad team at all, i'd have Reddan for Murray and maybe Henry in at 7 with SOB at 6 but I think POM will be well up for it.

Fishooks12

JRant wrote: »

That's not a bad team at all, i'd have Reddan for Murray and maybe Henry in at 7 with SOB at 6 but I think POM will be well up for it.

I'd have Reddan for Murray alright but it's not a bad team infairness

totallegend

The DOC/Tuohy call will be tight enough, but I'd be shocked if the back row is anything other than 6. POM 7. SOB 8. Heaslip.

So I'd predict:
15. Kearney
14. Trimble
13. O'Driscoll
12. D'Arcy
11. Earls
10. Sexton
9. Murray
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Fitzpatrick
4. Ryan
5. O'Callaghan (just can't see DK dropping him)
6. O'Mahony
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip

Bench; Cronin, Loughney, Tuohy, Henry, Reddan, O'Gara, McFadden

danthefan

totallegend wrote: »

The DOC/Tuohy call will be tight enough, but I'd be shocked if the back row is anything other than 6. POM 7. SOB 8. Heaslip.

So I'd predict:
15. Kearney
14. Trimble
13. O'Driscoll
12. D'Arcy
11. Earls
10. Sexton
9. Murray
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Fitzpatrick
4. Ryan
5. O'Callaghan (just can't see DK dropping him)
6. O'Mahony
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip

Bench; Cronin, Loughney, Tuohy, Henry, Reddan, O'Gara, McFadden

Agree, see this being the team.

thomond2006

I'd agree on your team, the only question mark IMO is what he will do with Keith "only want to play centre" Earls.

JRant

Fishooks12 wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

That's not a bad team at all, i'd have Reddan for Murray and maybe Henry in at 7 with SOB at 6 but I think POM will be well up for it.

I'd have Reddan for Murray alright but it's not a bad team infairness

It really isn't and I'd really live to see Touhy and Ryan start together, here's hoping DOC doesn't start.

Teferi

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd agree on your team, the only question mark IMO is what he will do with Keith "only want to play centre" Earls.

Hopefully sit him down and say something like "Keith, you make a fine centre but you're a natural winger now shut up and play to your strengths".

Tox56

Teferi wrote: »

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd agree on your team, the only question mark IMO is what he will do with Keith "only want to play centre" Earls.

Hopefully sit him down and say something like "Keith, you make a fine centre but you're a natural winger now shut up and play to your strengths".

I'd say Keith won't be afraid to have a word with Kidney about having some gametime at 13, but I doubt there will be any problem with him not fully co-operating. His lack of gametime on the wing is unlikely to be an issue either.

ionadnapokot

Predicted NZ v Ireland teams:
Dagg 15. Kearney
Guilford 14. Trimble
Smith 13. O'Driscoll
SBW 12. D'Arcy
Julian Savea* 11. Earls
Carter 10. Sexton
Aaron Smith* 9. Reddan
Woodcock 1. Healy
Hore 2. Best
Franks 3. Fitzpatrick *
Williams 4. Ryan
Whitelock 5. O'Callaghan
Thompson 6. O'Mahony
McCaw 7. O'Brien
Read 8. Heaslip

Replacements:
Cronin 16. Elliot
Ronan Loughney* 17. BFranks
Tuohy 18. Brodie Retallick *
Henry 19 Vito
Murray 20 Weepu
O’Gara 21 Cruden
McFadden 22 Ben Smith

thomond2006

1st test:
Healy, Best, Fitzpatrick, Ryan, Tuohy, POM, SOB, Heaslip;
Reddan, Sexton, Trimble, D'Arcy, BOD, Earls, Kearney

2nd test:
Healy, Best, Ross, DOC, Tuohy, McLaughlin, Henry, SOB;
Murray, Sexton, Zebo, McFadden, Cave, Trimble, Kearney

3rd test:
Loughney, Cronin, Ross, DOC, Ryan, McLaughlin, POM, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Trimble, D'Arcy, BOD, McFadden, Earls

+ Active use of the bench in 2nd and 3rd tests!!!

This is the sort of rotation I would like, subject to good form in training etc. Sexton is the only player I would have start every game (and maybe Earls since he is the only FB cover) and play the full 80, it's pointless using ROG unless Sexton gets hurt. Playing the same 10 also ensures some form of continuity while players move in and out of the starting XV.

I don't mind Kidney using the 1st test as an opportunity to get the all important test win over the ABs, but for the 2nd and 3rd we need some rotation. The impact of a test win would be massive and it's worth going for. However if we can't win the 1st test I don't see how we would win the 2nd or 3rd, the ABs will slowly get their **** together and improve as they go along.

The All Blacks will undoubtedly rotate as well, their players are in the middle of a very long Super Rugby campaign, they will probably start 22-25 different players over the test series. I wouldn't expect the likes of Woodcock, McCaw and Carter to start every test and they will rotate combinations of Nonu, Smith and SB Williams.

Fishooks12

Agreed. Heaslip, Sexton and Earls should be the only 3 that start each test

danthefan

Two starts for DOC. Get the boat.

totallegend

Tox56 wrote: »

I'd say Keith won't be afraid to have a word with Kidney about having some gametime at 13, but I doubt there will be any problem with him not fully co-operating. His lack of gametime on the wing is unlikely to be an issue either.

Well, if Darren Cave's tour is not to be a complete waste, then he will also need gametime at 13, so I think Earls will have to bite the bullet on this one.

thomond2006

danthefan wrote: »

Two starts for DOC. Get the boat.

experience for experience sake, it's just a template mind!

thomond2006

totallegend wrote: »

Well, if Darren Cave's tour is not to be a complete waste, then he will also need gametime at 13, so I think Earls will have to bite the bullet on this one.

**** forgot about Cave!

*Edits above post!*

JRant

thomond2006 wrote: »

1st test:
Healy, Best, Fitzpatrick, Ryan, Tuohy, POM, SOB, Heaslip;
Reddan, Sexton, Trimble, D'Arcy, BOD, Earls, Kearney

2nd test:
Healy, Best, Ross, DOC, Tuohy, McLaughlin, Henry, SOB;
Murray, Sexton, Zebo, McFadden, Earls, Trimble, Kearney

3rd test:
Loughney, Cronin, Ross, DOC, Ryan, McLaughlin, POM, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Trimble, D'Arcy, BOD, McFadden, Earls

This is the sort of rotation I would like, subject to good form in training etc. Sexton is the only player I would have start every game (and maybe Earls since he is the only FB cover) and play the full 80, it's pointless using ROG unless Sexton gets hurt.

I don't mind Kidney using the 1st test as an opportunity to get the all important test win over the ABs, but for the 2nd and 3rd we need some rotation.

The All Blacks will undoubtedly rotate as well, their players are in the middle of a very long Super Rugby campaign, they will probably start 22-25 different players over the test series.

First test is key, if we can win one it's going to be this one. It's the first time in many years that all the AB Players have taken a full part in Super rugby one week before a test match. For some of the Hurricanes it's even shorter having played on sunday against the Tah's and having to fly home.
We're still an excellent team with a lot of fantastic rugby players who on their day can beat anyone despite the best efforts of DK.

Fireball07

Maybe BOD at 12 and Cave at 13 for the last test...

JRant

totallegend wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

I'd say Keith won't be afraid to have a word with Kidney about having some gametime at 13, but I doubt there will be any problem with him not fully co-operating. His lack of gametime on the wing is unlikely to be an issue either.

Well, if Darren Cave's tour is not to be a complete waste, then he will also need gametime at 13, so I think Earls will have to bite the bullet on this one.

You'd hope with only 29 travelling he has a good chance of getting game time, however this is DK we're talking about. Maybe he felt with leaving P Wallace at home he needed another Ulster lad to hold the tackle bags
On a more serious note, when's the last time we had a squad without a Wallace in it and who's going to do the clean-up now?

Banbridgeman

The team SHOULD be this 1.healy 2.best 3.fitzpatrick 4.touhy 5.ryan 6.obrien 7.henry 8.heaslip 9.reddan 10.sexton 11.earls 12.darcy 13.odriscoll 14.trimble 15.kearney however we all know it will be O'Callaghan over touhy, Murray over reddan and O'Mahony over Henry.

Fishooks12

Banbridgeman wrote: »

The team SHOULD be this 1.healy 2.best 3.fitzpatrick 4.touhy 5.ryan 6.obrien 7.henry 8.heaslip 9.reddan 10.sexton 11.earls 12.darcy 13.odriscoll 14.trimble 15.kearney however we all know it will be O'Callaghan over touhy, Murray over reddan and O'Mahony over Henry.

It's not POM over Henry

SOB is the best 7 in the squad and will start as such.

RoundBox11

Hard to know what the team will be with Deccie. Sooner or later he's going to have to bite the bullet with DOC and D'Arcy. My selections would be:

1st Test:

15. Kearney 14. Trimble 13. BOD 12. D'Arcy 11. Earls 10. Sexton 9. Reddan 8. Heaslip 7. O'Brien 6. O'Mahony 5. Tuohy 4. Ryan 3. Fitzpatrick 2. Best 1. Healy



2nd Test:

15. Kearney 14. McFadden 13. Cave 12. BOD 11. Earls 10. Sexton 9. Reddan 8. Heaslip 7. Henry 6. O'Brien 5. Tuohy 4. Ryan 3. Ross 2. Best 1. Healy



3rd Test:

15. Kearney 14. Trimble 13. Cave 12. McFadden 11. Earls 10. Sexton 9. Murray 8. Heaslip 7. O'Brien 6. O'Mahony 5. POC (surely he'd be fit by then no??) 4. Ryan 3. Ross 2. Cronin 1. Healy


I think that balances rotation with the ability to withstand a complete battering.

JRant

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Banbridgeman wrote: »

The team SHOULD be this 1.healy 2.best 3.fitzpatrick 4.touhy 5.ryan 6.obrien 7.henry 8.heaslip 9.reddan 10.sexton 11.earls 12.darcy 13.odriscoll 14.trimble 15.kearney however we all know it will be O'Callaghan over touhy, Murray over reddan and O'Mahony over Henry.

It's not POM over Henry

SOB is the best 7 in the squad and will start as such.

He's probably the best 6 in the squad as well to be honest.
I'd have no problem with Henry and POM getting a fair crack of whip each and given a genuine chance to claim a spot on the team. I'd be amazed if this happens though as DK shows unwaviering support of his favourites and continually ignores form and unfortunately for Henry, POM is in the latter category. That's no slight on POM by the way as I think he's a quality player but there is definitely some double standards being applied by this management team when it comes to the treatment of a lot of players.

Podge_irl

There is not a hope of BOD sitting out a test unless he's injured.

Clegg

Kidney doesn't know what rotation is.

We'll probably see the same team for all 3 tests bar the changes that need to be made due to injury.

Fishooks12

JRant wrote: »

He's probably the best 6 in the squad as well to be honest.
I'd have no problem with Henry and POM getting a fair crack of whip each and given a genuine chance to claim a spot on the team. I'd be amazed if this happens though as DK shows unwaviering support of his favourites and continually ignores form and unfortunately for Henry, POM is in the latter category. That's no slight on POM by the way as I think he's a quality player but there is definitely some double standards being applied by this management team when it comes to the treatment of a lot of players.

I'd agree but in purely rugby terms I think SOB has become a better 7 than 6 over the last year. So makes sense to play him in position